JayLDD

Can you show post ops of right after the grafts were placed

Bad response from a clinic I already made clear I regard highly. I'll just post it here again as what your clinic regards as a good results and let people make up their own minds then. If you genuinely think this is a good result (which I doubt, but anyway) it shows how subjective this can be. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163858-transgender-hairline-dr-cooley.html The point stands, even clinics that most would consider top-tier have some results that aren't particularly appealing if you're dealing with hundreds of results available online. On top of that different people have different ideas of what's appealing, and in most clinics patients have input on hairline design as well.

I agree that everything that can be said here has already been said, but to leave it with this is clearly disingenuous, you've ignored over ten other results I presented, ignored the crown work, ignored the examples of horrible hairlines by surgeons you proposed are more artistic, ignored the fact the patient is consulted multiple times on the design of the hairline at the clinic, and ignored the fact that styling plays a part in what these results look like. You have no objective criticisms beyond "the hair sticks up like a brush" or that you don't like the design. Learn what hair styling is, and accept that not every patient thinks the same you do, and all of them have the option of input at Erdogan's clinic regarding the design. You've compared Erdogan's results to "donald trump" and reminiscent of the hairplugs days. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/188884-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5088-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2519882 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187372-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5012-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2507070 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187271-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5004-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2506237 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187146-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-2402-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2505058 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan--3502-grafts-fue-194 International Hair Loss Forum - Kevin91FR : 3001 FUE - Dr. Koray Erdogan - ASMED Results from the past 12 months, if you can't admit these are cream of the crop results, you're lying to yourself or you're lying to the forum. Clearly not generic or one size fits all hairline design going on here either. Also what's another way I know you skirt around with the truth? When you responded to the Cooley result, you initially said it was a great result, but edited your comment after to say it wasn't as bad as the Erdogan "trainwrecks". I'm not the only one that knows you're full of shit, clearly you do too.

https://hassonandwong.com/hair-transplant-results/patient-1933/?_sfm_number_of_grafts=4200+4800 This is what 4400 grafts on a head almost fully bald with a similar hair quality ought to look like, from this very clinic. Realistically when considering this the clinics excuse is clearly dishonest. I'd have more sympathy if not for the fact the procedure didn't incorporate an even hairline, meaning that in the case you did bald it was going to always look like an uneven mess. The strip going right through to the very edge and finer regions of the temples was unacceptable too. Assuming you lost every last one of your natives, this is still a very bad result with minimal growth. Show them this and other HnW results on bald heads with this number of grafts and ask if yours is comparable. We know what this number of grafts looks like on a completely bald head, and it's significantly better than this. This is a bad result and they have the reputation and revenue to handle it, they should do the right thing and give you a refund.

This is just through a few minutes of scrolling through results from the last year http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/188884-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5088-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2519882 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187372-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5012-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2507070 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187271-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-5004-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2506237 http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187146-dr-koray-erdogan-asmed-clinic-2402-grafts-manual-fue.html#post2505058 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan--3502-grafts-fue-194 International Hair Loss Forum - Kevin91FR : 3001 FUE - Dr. Koray Erdogan - ASMED International Hair Loss Forum - Chauveries : 3000 FUE - Dr. Koray Erdogan - 24.01.2017 All from the last year. These are top tier results easily well above the average FUE results of surgeons recommended by this forum, who are themselves well above the overall average. There is no genuinely no basis for your claims. You're unhappy with your own hairline (which yielded fine and has no issues with plugginess), well you were the one they consulted on the design, multiple times and with a pre and post shave, so take some responsibility. Looking at those results the critique that all his hairlines look the same or generic is simply wrong also.

There are Hasson and Rahal necrosis cases also. He's not at the same level and rarely talked about on this forum but I've seen multiple Rassman necrosis cases. You have to question exactly what this means, whether it is out of the norm and the context in the broader industry across all surgeons. I agree the fact that they allowed him to go through with a surgery despite being a heavy smoker is a mistake however. "Considering that we are hopefully beyond the age of “plugs“ and Donald-esque embarrassments it just blew my mind that people keep talking about this doctor as some sort of guru. " This is just absurd. https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan-2000-grafts-fue--800-grafts-fue-133 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan-3408-grafts-fue-172 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan-2806-grafts-fue-147 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan-2800-grafts-fue-66 Donald trump-esque embarrassments? Even the case you posted (Promotional link removed) Do you really believe this is comparable to the plug days? Your critique is beyond believability of good intentions. It's attacking for the sake of it.

My point was that the Erdogan hairlines in question presented by the OP lacked objective technical flaws (multiple grafts in the hairline, density issues etc) and it was a vague, arbitrary critique of design, and that I could easily find multiple results from the surgeons he mentioned as top end hairline surgeons that were lacked finesse, or artistry as well. A few imperfect results or those that I personally don't find to showcase any artistry out of thousands mean very little, particularly when the patients have input into the design at the majority of clinics. It wasn't a specific attack on Cooley, he's a top-tier surgeon endorsed by people like Joe T with ample credentials in progressing the art of hair transplants and fantastic hairlines, my thoughts are simply that OP was deliberately picking a fight with a baseless critique that can be applied to any top surgeon in the world. Finding a few hairlines with a shape you don't find appealing and saying the surgeon shouldn't be recommended here anymore is absurd. OP also said in advance that he knew Erdogan consistently offered high graft numbers up to 5000 grafts and didn't like his hairlines, yet sent an online consult anyway just so he could complain of the high numbers and make this thread. Hmm. I will say though that the trans-hairline in question was clearly lacking in density which amplified the fact that the lingering redness remained, the texture of the hair doesn't have the soft fine hairs of a feminine hairline which looks odd with the feminine shape, on one of the temples there is a clear gap distinguishing the natives from the transplants, the dense male temples point clearly don't blend into the constructed hairline, its particularly bad on one side. Ultimately it doesn't look like anywhere near 3000 grafts grew either. I don't see how anyone could argue that. Compared to a result like this which is clearly undetectable and immaculate. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/182371-dr-cooley-hairline-result-1756-grafts-via-fuss.html It's incomparable to this which is a poor result by any stretch of the imagination and clearly detectable, especially for a female hairline attempt. The redness is an undeniable issue with the poor density. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163858-transgender-hairline-dr-cooley.html Calling this a trainwreck based on a single close up photo with a lens with a wide angle without considering the yield, coverage, crown work doesn't seem credible. It sounds more like a critique of someone who decided in advance they had the money to go to a US surgeon (which they mentioned themselves) and to piss on anyone else who spent less money. Who else would be aware a surgeon typically likes to offer high graft numbers up to 5000, contact them for a quote and complain when they do so. https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/28709-DR-KORAY-ERDOGAN-ASMED-Clinic-4256-Grafts-FUE

Who are you to say what they "need"? He isn't by any stretch of the imagination producing "poor" hairlines on patients, realistically speaking if you were to kick Erdogan off because of "poor hairlines" you'd be left with fifteen doctors represented by the entire site. And again, I know you've said before you had issues with your hairline but I've been to the clinic and know how it works, they consult YOU the patient three times on the design, pre and post shaving specifically asking what you want, you can't act as if you have zero responsibility or that other hairlines you're looking at didn't have input from the patient. In my case I don't think the design was particularly good, but that is specifically because I told him to alter it after he designed what in retrospect was far more natural for my racial characteristics. In the moment and with less experience I wasn't sure what was going to look best. You've taken two results (that 99% of the population would see as natural) out of thousands and are trying to make an absurdly broad judgement. Look at Joe Ts hairline by Dr. Wong who is highly regarded by every single person who knows what they're talking about, it's one of the least natural looking designs you'll ever see. OP mentioned Cooley, what about this result which is horrible in more ways than one? http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163858-transgender-hairline-dr-cooley.html You can play that game all day long. A few hairlines that you personally don't find appealing is virtually meaningless. I could find multiple for your surgeon per Erdogan case you don't like.

I'll do one more for a 12 month update before I go to Turkey end of this month. To be honest I stopped because around the 7-8 month mark I was happy with things and couldn't be bothered.

For most high norwoods in terms of a one and done with FUE there aren't really any other surgeons doing what he is doing. It appeals to a certain kind of patient. For me I'm more concerned with density, coverage, having a surgeon who is consistent in his yields and is technically precise than one who is an artist. His hairlines are sometimes generic and not always particularly artistic in my opinion, but if I wanted that and to go through 500 graft per day sessions (when I needed over 5000 grafts) I'd go to Keser or Freitas. Can always get a touch up with one of those to perfect things later on anyway. I agree those Erdogan hairlines aren't great, but I can easily find a horrible looking Cooley or Shapiro hairline too: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163858-transgender-hairline-dr-cooley.html And phenomenal looking Erdogan hairlines: https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan-2000-grafts-fue--800-grafts-fue-133 https://www.hairtransplantfue.org/asmed-hair-transplant-result/results/dr-koray-erdogan--2402-grafts-fue-180 All of these are great surgeons despite their bad results, consider the fact that patients always have input into the hairline design including with Erdogan so blaming the surgeon doesn't always make sense. That above Cooley result has a myriad of issues also. If I wanted specifically hairline work in the range of 1000-1500 grafts then the criticism makes sense, but in your case if you're high norwood and being suggested 3500-5000 grafts you're not a patient for whom it makes sense to focus on so much on hairline artistry. Consider that the majority of US surgeons you consulted don't do 5000 grafts in a single session at all for FUE or FUT also.

I agree in a sense, but in terms of graft yields and consistency in particular there aren't any doctors at the same level apart from maybe Freitas and Lorenzo. Most would say Konior which is likely but the truth is there are less than 20 FUE results by Konior online so I don't think it's fair to say that (compared to probably thousands of Erdogan results.) Some people scoff at the idea of taking cost into consideration, but realistically through the thousands of results I've looked through other top surgeons like Feriduni, Hasson, Feller and Bisanga have significantly more bad results (also consider that I've looked at more Erdogan results). It's bad enough to pay double for less consistency, but in the case of a bad result and requiring a touch up/repair you're looking at substantially higher costs than going with Erdogan. He's also had a phenomenal track record of donor management getting to the 5000 - 7000 FUE graft range consistently without problems. For the price I paid with Erdogan I'm getting a surgeon who going by online results is objectively one of the most consistent surgeons in the world, and if I'm not 100% with the hairline I can go to someone like Keser or Konior to get it perfect with plenty of $ left over. Keser does better hairline work for 30% more and only does 500 grafts per day, Freitas > hairlines but a 2 year waiting list, Couto > hairlines but a 4 year waiting list, Konior and Baubac 3 times the price etc. Trade-offs that personally I don't think are worth it, although they may be to some. If you're only a NW2 with no crown thinning, in terms of doctors with short waiting lists I would go to Keser, Konior, NW3 and above that there is no one I would remotely consider apart from Erdogan and Lorenzo.

Read and look at what HTSoon posted to you. It's already been stated why he's a bad choice. He's a highly competent marketer but he isn't performing follicular unit transplantation in the sense that hairs naturally occur in the scalp like all modern hair transplant surgeons should be doing to achieve natural results. People with experience are telling you to avoid him for a reason, this isn't the time to blindly follow your impulses or fall for marketing and pathetic TV advertising like on Dr. Oz (who you yourself admit doesn't have a great reputation). And yes Dr. Feller would be a much better choice, or Dr. Bloxham at his clinic.

Jesus. Who was the surgeon?

Regarding FUE, (as a biased Koray patient), I don't think anyone in the US is at the level of Erdogan apart from Konior who tends to stick to smaller FUE cases, and Baubac also is worth considering. Both at the $8 USD mark I think. Diep consistently produces very strong results in the recipient but I've read that he isn't even making recipient sites for every patient and in the majority of cases he is uses a punch size with a diameter close to twice what most surgeons would. He's had too many questionable ethical issues to consider in my opinion.

Just book it with Feriduni and end the masturbatory questioning here. Unless you're particularly uninformed which you're not there is little reason to specifically book a consultation before a procedure. What in a consultation is going to change your mind or help you make your decision as opposed to what another clinic would say? What can they tell you that basic research can't? With Google and years of research your disposal, you should be past the point of an in person consult changing your mind. I think you know you want to have the surgery with Feriduni and all your posts reflect as much, there's only so much questioning that is productive. Clinic staff taking a while to respond to emails is hardly the most offputting thing in the world. Personally I would book a procedure with Feriduni, avoid the consultation entirely and get the issue off the mind. Freitas in Spain (FUE) does the best hairline work in the world in my opinion, although he has a 2 year waiting list. Also Hattingen do great work but their speciality seems to be high norwood and large megassessions.

Just my two cents, you clearly had visible hairloss and the remaining hairline was beginning to look sickly. There are hundreds of people on the forum who have gone for more aggressive work with less loss than you. This is a well worth it case. Big improvement on a situation that previously was better than most men your age but wasn't great.

Likely to do with heart related and blood pressure risks, not an efficacy thing.

Care to say what what those points you never made that I attributed to you were? I literally said he was correct on the fact that the study confirms a causal link between fin and sides which he said I was denying by mentioning the placebo group. How much clearer can I get? If I'm outright saying his point is correct, why does he continue to attack and call me an idiot? Because he's another deranged propagandist, more interested in making noise than being honest or accurate. "You know the one you took hours out of your day to trawl through youtube with ten year old results from a doctor you do not like, to try and discredit him. " Maybe there's something wrong with your internet connection (or your head?) but it doesn't take hours to search a doctors work on Google or Youtube. More absurd attacks from rabid dogs frothing at the mouth.

He was arguing against points I never made. I stated that I acknowledge the causal relationship between various sides and fin three times but he kept attacking saying I didn't understand the data, then arguing what I'd already said and proceeding to call me an idiot. He also kept arguing that percentages weren't relevant and only the fundamental null hypothesis of the review determining a link between variables mattered which is blatantly false. Percentages matter 100% from the perspective of anyone looking to take the drug, not just a causal relationship. We'd already established your mind isn't particularly nuanced so I don't expect much but to avoid more embarrassment try actually looking at what the arguments being made are, rather than just jumping on whatever side I'm against.

Every surgeon has bad results, but looking at the post-ops the fact that there was no even hairline reconstruction was just plain stupid, even if the patient was on finasteride. The scar was also taken extremely high and right through to the edges of the temple region. This isn't just a poor result, this is a genuine botch job in more ways than one.

And this is the type of conspiratorial nonsense that I'm talking about. My doctor didn't even recommend brand or a specific generic, this makes absolutely zero sense.

"I know you think you're saying something safe, but you're really saying literal nothing. " Look at every post you've made so far. All it amounts to is that finasteride can cause sexual dysfunction among other side effects based on the data. Again, as Mikey said nothing of note is being said that we didn't know. I already acknowledged this before you came raging in like a deranged, strawmanning bull in a china shop. Pot calling kettle black much. You can roll your eyes all you like, what of note have you put forth that I and other posters hadn't acknowledged? "There are epidemiological measures that can infer the risk of developing sexual dysfunction from finasteride" Sources? Only an idiot would suggest the percents don't matter. If the sample size was a million people, only a hundred had side effects but a causal relationship was found on the data, this is remarkably different than if a hundred thousand had side effects from the perspective of a potential user. You keep making an argument separate to the one others are making to counter them. It's laughable. "And no it doesn't even assess the severity or longevity of side effects" Its directly discussed in the FDA stat review, just because you choose to ignore it and act like the causal relationship is the only thing discussed at all in any study ever created doesn't make it so. Enough of your garbage and strawmans.

He's just sore I ruined him in another thread when he praised Dr. W00ds horrible work and enjoys me getting attacked from all angles.

He's just sore I ruined him in another thread when he praised horrible work and enjoys me getting attacked from all angles.

And not once have your critiques of what I've said accurately portrayed what I actually said, or others you have called idiots have said. "the difference was statistically significant in favor of placebo with p < 0.05." You keep bringing this up to people who already admit this as if it is a revelation and call them idiots when they focus on other issues in the dataset and facts outside of it. What does this even mean to you? Are we supposed to throw the drug out the window because a small subset of the population get side effects? Are we to sue Merck into oblivion for side effects they themselves admit to? Why not a gun company every time someone gets shot? Your conclusions don't lead anywhere different than where we are now. Significant numbers of patients who claim finasteride side effects cannot reasonably attribute these to finasteride as shown by an extensive placebo group claiming side effects in every major study, act like the master of statistics and data analysis all you like to deny this, it's a fact. The mechanisms of finasterides causal influence on sexual dysfunction, fatigue, depression and other issues aren't understood in any concrete way either. The current models of understanding don't explain why 95% of users have no noitceable side effects at all, even in the long term. It has absolutely nothing to do with memetics. There are specific probabilities offered by various studies from the past twenty years of getting short term finasteride sides and those that are long term. Accept the risk or don't. There is also a significant group of people who attribute ailments to finasteride when there is a strong influence of the nocebo as shown by all major data sets including the one you linked. And sorry if it offends you, but it is an issue that arises when the PFS propaganda brigade is partnering with law firms that they're linking, systematically posting propoganda on every last hair related video or forum they can find, with precision and in depth research on the issue while claiming they can't work or function in any form. Well clearly that is false when they are indeed working on their PFS crusade, it's just not useful to anyone else. The issue arises when PFS propogandists claim that data sets such as the FDA stat review are false, manipulated or a poor representation of accurate results. An issue arises when you focus on fear through clickbate titles like "propecia castrated me" rather than simply offering people the data. Another arises when you make an unsound bandwagon fallacy that your believes are accepted by the medical community, despite the multiple doctors I've talked to on the issue (including those taking the drug) saying it's among their most prescribed drugs, and those who attribute side effects to it are a few in a hundred, they've never had a patient with long term side effects and they don't see enough evidence to make firm conclusions on the nature of PFS. Again, no one is arguing that the drug cannot be attributed to short or long term side effects. It's a question of the overall benefits, alternatives and whether the risks and probabilities are out in the open, which they are. You'd have the vast, vast majority of users suffer and not be able to make the decision at all because of your own rare, tiny minority problem. That's what it comes down to. Nothing more to say.