JohnnyDrama

Hi jetfan, I've noticed you've had a lot of posts recently re your shockloss. A number of them are asking for updates on very old threads (I think this is actually the oldest), and some of the members haven't been on the site in years. So just not to get the hopes up on replies! I'd imagine it's a rough period and I'll probably be experiencing it towards the end of the year, but from the research I've done, shockloss can take anywhere from 3-8 months to recover, depending on the individual really. Is your shockloss in the donor or around your recipient? Have you tried using Minoxidil on it?

Thanks guys. VERY! Honestly, it's huge. I learned so much from it and at the other side of it, the clinic have an idea of what to expect when I arrive in August. I'd find it hard to see myself committing to a doc if I hadn't met him in hindsight. You just get a gut feeling when in the clinic if this is the right choice for you, and you get a sense if the doc is confident with your case. Having said that I can appreciate entirely that geography and proximity (and as a result, cost) to a clinic play against many people. Online consultations play a very relevant part, and again I learned a lot by doing many. I even got a nice little discount from my quote simply because I attended in person!

What confusion regarding surgery have you cleared up in this thread exactly?

So would you rather go to a Doc who employs people who refuse to evolve over time? That's a clueless post in itself, and the thread is gone beyond trolling at this stage.

Congrats Mickey, I see that HRN have just sent their newsletter with this thread as their topic! I hope you get your cut! Top thread though, and very informative. I've referred to it several times over the past month or so in preparation for my decision on a HT. I came to the conclusion that the pros outweigh the cons and have 2000 FUE booked in a top clinic in August. Obviously I'll be hoping that this kind of research will stand in good stead, and that in 12-18 months time I'll be singing FUEs praises.

Congrats Mickey, I see that HRN have just sent their newsletter with this thread as their topic! I hope you get your cut! Top thread though, and very informative. I've referred to it several times over the past month or so in preparation for my decision on a HT. I came to the conclusion that the pros outweigh the cons and have 2000 FUE booked in a top clinic in August. Obviously I'll be hoping that this kind of research will stand in good stead, and that in 12-18 months time I'll be singing FUEs praises.

Anyone with half a clue of the HT industry would know this thread was a setup from the off. I first started contacting different reps of different clinics in January of this year. I got many different attitudes and estimations, and took them all on board. Never did I feel the need to create a thread on a popular forum, asking about the opinion of a specific individual. The OP seems very well versed in prices and procedures. I like how he innocently names the thread "FUE or FUT - I don't know what to believe", yet the whole thread is about the opinion of an individual. I've received a serious amount of valuable info from Spex, and have never paid him a penny. I've even put a deposit down with a clinic that he has no representation with, and he wished me the best and that I had made a great choice. It would be a shame to lose an experienced opinion because of some one-post wonder who claims they are so confused about things yet at the same time seem very educated.

Can you prove that his initial diagnosis was to ship you off to the US? From what I've read his first mention of a doc is Feriduni. If you are referring to Feriduni, then you are incorrect. His FUE prices are NOT the same as his FUT prices. Unless of course things have changed since I visited the clinic 2 weeks ago. What has that got to do with your thread topic?

Dr. Feriduni is recommended on this site and is a Coalition member. You'll find his details here. A quick google returns his clinics website too. I met him 2 weeks ago for a consultation. Top bloke and top surgeon.

Wow, looking brilliant and so early as well! Happy for you mate!

With all due respect to your experiences Jfables, but isn't it almost a decade ago that these docs worked on you? And were they not trainees at the time? Do you think that it is in anyway possible that 8-10 years later they might very well have perfected a particular form of HT surgery, or at the very least vastly increased their skill set, given that so many years and several thousand patients have passed by their hands in the mean time?

Looks and sounds good to me, particularly as I'm booked in with Dr. Bisanga for a 2,000 FUE session in August, albeit for a very different hairloss pattern to your own.

Excellent choice mate! Best of luck! Will be cool to compare our progress! We'll be sharing the doldrums as well!

Nice one mate! Who are you thinking of going with?

Thanks lads, hope it can be of help to others. It's funny, even though I've documented a lot, for some reason I still feel as if I've left out quite a bit! Really glad I went ahead with it though. Had I only met one or two docs, I know I would have been left with some 'what ifs' at some point down the line. Now begins the fun part! Have just booked my flight over on the 21st, and will probably stay in the HC Brussels hotel that is located literally 2 mins walk away from the clinic. Seeing as I have 3 weeks off work, I think I'll try to optimise the healing/cleaning/scabbing process by staying in the hotel for a week in total. It's going to add to the cost for sure but again, I like the idea of the doc seeing my progress for the first week, and what harm to have fully qualified hands clean my sensitive head than my awkward mitts. It also means that none of my friends or family witness the swelling period.

You should send your info to Stephen at BHR (Bisanga) or Spex (for the attention of Feriduni). They'll reply in no time. Both docs are at the top end of the FUE scale. I'm booked in for FUE with Bisanga in August. But to address one of your concerns......regarding the 10 years down the road thing.......well no doc is going to be able to tell you how you will look in a decade, that's down to so many variables it's not even funny.

Yes, Dr. F uses manual, which makes it even more impressive!

Wow, 3259 FUE in one day must be close to a record for a top clinic is it?? Was in the clinic only last week with Dr F, great choice and I'm sure with a procedure of that size you'll be a changed man!

Wow, that's a fantastic result. You were lucky enough as well to have VERY early growth. You were a different person at 5 months! It's great to see these long term results getting posted. I think hair loss communities need to see a lot more of these cases.

Conclusion As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my pre-consultation research had Bisanga and Feriduni as my likely choices. Even though I was glad I saw the other two docs, I was still most impressed with BHR and Dr F. So the journey home as well as the past week or so had me weighing up what direction I should go in. My final decision: Bisanga. Reasons: - Again as I previously mentioned, from my pre-consultation research I had Bisanga slightly edging things from an FUE point of view. I had Feriduni slightly edging it from an FUT point of view. Upon finding out the news that I was a good candidate for FUE, I was essentially given the choice of either procedure from both docs. - The slightly more conservative treatment plan from BHR (2,000 grafts) appealed to me for several reasons over the 3,000 from Dr F. I just got a degree of confidence from Dr B that he could achieve a denser look with smaller grafts. I recall at one point mentioning the term 'dense-packing', and he said that we wouldn't even need to dense pack due to my high numbers of 2s 3s and 4s. - Seeing as I was told I have roughly 5,000 'safe' FUE grafts to take from my donor (without obvious signs of thinning post-op), going with BHR for my 1st procedure would result in me essentially having 3,000 left in the bank for future needs which could realistically be split in 2 procedures of 1,500, whereas I would have 2,000 left with Dr F which realistically would be one procedure. - When I was beginning to come to this conclusion, again I turned to posted online results. I began mass-googling sessions of 'Bisanga FUE' and 'Feriduni FUE'. Having read so many positive outcomes from each, I was still impressed with the BHR findings. - I then began contacting one or two other Irish guys who had been to BHR. They were incredibly forthcoming with positive references, and offered to meet in person if I wished. I haven't had the opportunity to do so, but it in itself was a sign of how happy they were with the work. - Scheduling - I know it's relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of selecting a clinic, but it was always looking like an Aug/Sept procedure for me. Both clinics are ridiculously popular (and for obvious reasons), in that they have a 5-7 month waiting list at the best of times. Initially September looked good from a work perspective, until big appointments were made for the second half, so August became the preferred choice. I also liked the idea of having 4 full months of recovery before the xmas season hit. From the specific dates given to me, 2 days in August with BHR were jumping out at me. I must comment though that Dr Fs clinic were very fair in provisionally putting my name down for 2 days in Sept and held them for quite a few days. This was organised with Spex who is a great addition to the clinic. - Post OP patient care: From my research, I have come to the conclusion that these 2 clinics have exceptional post-care services in operation, so I couldn't rank one over the other. From my communications with Stephen and Spex, I regard them as in a league of their own in terms of how quickly they respond to you, as well as the level of detail involved. - Cost: I have put this towards the end because even though it is a relevant aspect to consider for obvious reasons, from the bigger picture of choosing a clinic for you I believe it is one of the last aspects to look into. From the difference in graft estimation, BHR would have obviously worked out considerably cheaper. As a result of all my initial research and travels, I have just placed a deposit with BHR and my two day procedure is on Aug 22-23.

If anybody has any questions relating to any aspect.....don't hesitate to get in touch!

Travel -Drive to Dublin at 3.00am on Sat Mar 16 (2 hr drive) -Fly Dublin - Brussels at 6.35am (1hr 40 flight) - Aer Lingus (flights were roughly €135 return) -Arrive at 9.35am -If you have time on your side, DO NOT get a taxi from the airport to the city. It set us back €52!! Get a train to Central Station or Midi/Zuid for much less. -Consultation with Dr. Bisanga at 12.30pm at BHR Clinic (we had a bite in a little cafe around the corner called Sweet and Savoury, recommended by Stephen the BHR rep. This is where I met the English lad who had 1,300 FUE with Bisanga the day before, so I quizzed him for a bit ). -Taxi to Central Station €7.50 -Train at 2.00pm from Brussels (Zuid/Midi) to Heist-Op-Den-Berg (1hr 20 train - €9 return). This was a pain, in that it was never really clear where or how we needed to changed trains. As it turned out, we stayed on the first train until we reached Antwerp, then got a connecting train to H-O-D-B. -Consultation with Dr. De Reys at 16.30 at his home address -Train back to Brussels at 18.30 and finally check into 5* Stanhope Hotel (ridiculously reasonable price of around €150 for 2 nights, and could not recommend highly enough) -Sunday = Chill -Monday - Check out at 11am -Train at 13.00 from Brussels (Central) to Hasselt (1hr 15 train - €25 return) -Taxi to clinic €8 -Consultation with Dr. Feriduni at 15.00 at his clinic -Train back to Brussels at 16.30 -Consultation with Dr. Mwamba at his clinic at 18.15 -Taxi at 19.30 to airport (15 mins - €37) -Depart Brussels Airport at 21.10 -Arrive in Dublin at 21.40 -Arrive home at 00.30 -Up for work at 8.00 on Tuesday

Mwamba I was in the clinic for approx 70 mins, and Dr. Mwambas estimation was 1,800-2,250 grafts. Arrived at Dr. Mwambas WHTC clinic a little late, around 6.15pm on the Monday, largely due to the rescheduling of Dr. Feridunis consultation. I reckon I made it there in world record time, considering I left Dr. Fs clinic in Hasselt at around 4.15pm, there was a taxi ride, a train of 1hr 15mins, and another taxi ride in between! It gets funnier in that my plane home departed Brussels airport at 9.10pm that night! I'll admit to being pretty tired at this point. We were in the waiting room for maybe 10 mins, when a nurse brought out several pages of paperwork to fill out. This was the pre-consultation questionnaire. About 10 mins later again a nurse brought me into a room to take pics. A LOT of pics were taken, from many different angles. What was different here again, was that she took out a spray-bottle of water. I looked at her in fear, as wet hair is my nightmare, but yes, we were to take 'wet' shots. She sprayed my head good, took pics of all the same angles as she did when dry, and she then used a towel to dry me off. Feeling a little abused at this point I sat back down outside. About 5 mins later Dr. Mwamba came out and introduced himself, and we went into his office. We began by going into detail about when I first noticed thinning and when I began medication. As with the other docs, I mentioned my course of 'Accutane' in 2012, and he nodded his head, saying it was 'very bad' in the sense of its side effects. The physical exam began with him getting me to sit beside a pc, and he began inspecting my head with a microscope. Again, I could see the live-imaging on the monitor. In terms of measurements and graft estimation/treatment plan, the consultation was similar enough to Bisangas. I was impressed with the level of detail Dr. Mwamba showed, and he was taking a lot of notes throughout. I'll admit that before arriving here, I was so impressed by BHR and Feriduni, that I was convinced I'd be selecting one of the two (added to the fact I had seen so much of their work online), but I was glad I got another docs input as Mwamba is a little different again in his approaches. I was impressed with his level of professionalism, and again, he's a very very nice bloke. I have yet to receive any correspondence from the clinic post-consultation. Seeing as it was now 7.30pm, and our gate closed in the airport at 8.40pm, I was keen to get a move on. The doc promptly organised a taxi and wished us well.

De Reys Consultation lasted approx 50 mins, and Dr. De Reys estimated 1,500 FUE grafts would suffice. This one was a little different, in more ways than one! I was running a little late due to getting a little mixed up jumping from train station to train station, but rang the doc when we got to Heist-op-den-Berg station and he kindly said he'd drive over shortly. 15 mins later we got introduced and were in his car on the way to the consultation. The clinic is an extension to the docs house (a farmhouse - he has many chickens etc running about). He mentioned that they were currently renovating the clinic so we had to do the consultation in his living room. So he got me a cup of coffee and had his laptop setup on the living room table. My girlfriend watched tv behind us, while being entertained by the docs grandson. We briefly discussed my medication regimen and family history. Again, what may be the most interesting aspect of this is the doc estimating that 1,500 would be recommended. Similar to the other docs, he said I had a strong hairline, and that the area behind it (forelock/midscalp) was causing the illusion of a failing hairline because there was absolutely no density behind it, therefore being so see-through. He said I have a 'perfect' donor, with what appeared to be good groupings. He inspected my scalp with those microscope-type glasses that they would typically wear while in surgery (don't know the technical term). No photos were taken during the consultation, and no technical data / stats were gathered. His wife (who is his sole technician) also had a look, and commented that they had seen very few cases of my hair loss. They seemed confident that I could achieve the full look that I wanted with not many grafts. Again, hearing this in person from a doc was reassuring when thinking that I should have plenty in reserve in years to come if needed. Dr. De Reys then began showing me some cases of other guys he had on his laptop. One was of a lad who only lives an hour or so away from me in Ireland, who was with him quite recently. He really does appear to have a lot of cases on record, so it's a pity that so few are available online. Looking back, this consultation was very different from the others. Baring in mind that this was at around 4.30pm on a Saturday evening (along with the renovations), and the doc had a crazy busy house going on around us (a few other relatives passing in and out). They are very friendly people it has to be said. He then brought up the topic of dates re surgery, and we were now looking at his google calendar on his laptop. He seemed quite booked up for the next 2 - 2.5 months. The clinic is generally only open 3-4 days a week, so he usually has a 2-day op and a 1-day op in the one week. There hasn't been any contact from the clinic since the OP. I had been dealing with 'Nick', Dr. De Reys assistant prior to the consultation. This being my #2 consultation of the weekend, and having been so impressed by BHR, I did feel as if I wouldn't be pursuing this route. Although I must say I can see why many still opt for Dr. De Reys and why they would have confidence in him.

I've been swamped since returning from hols but have a nice 4 day weekend ahead so should have everything documented by then. I also intend to put up the logistics of the whole weekend. E.g. what time I went from A - B, how I got there and how much it cost. Myself and the missus really did do quite a bit of travelling that weekend. I felt a little sorry for her but hey, I had her warned!