Graft Estimation and recommendations for my balding hair - NW 3 already at 24.

[baldingnw3]

Hi everyone, I'm 24 and new to this forum and this is my first post.

 

I've been struggling with hair loss since I was 17 or so. I'm already a norwood 3 and want to know what options I have to tackle this especially in terms of how many grafts I'd need for a hair transplant to cover my temple areas which I've lost. I've been using fin 1mg on and off for the last 2.5 years and in the last 6 months I've been quite consistent and have been using 1mg of oral fin every other day. However, I haven't experienced any regrowth on my temple areas and I'm considering oral or topical minoxidil and dermarolling too. (but I'm not sure if these actions would even help or if they're just a waste)

 

I would really appreciate it if someone could please give me an estimate of how many grafts I might need to get a norwood 1 hairline just so that I have a rough estimate. I was also wondering if its possible to transplant beard hair and "under the neck hair" to the temple areas because I grow beard hair very easily and if they can also be used that would help a lot. If so, are there are known surgeons who do this? Lastly, how do I know if my hair loss is DHT related or if its some other reason? And does anyone have experience with oral vs topical fin? Last question for people who are more experienced with hair transplants is if anyone knows if surgeons can create a hairline that is square from the front after a hair transplant instead of being round? By square I mean from the front line it would be a straight line rather than like a valley. 

 

Appreciate your input and hope to interact with you guys. 

 

Note: Sorry for all the pics but I wanted to properly depict my hairline recession on the temples from various angles and also at different lengths of my hair (one after a hair cut and one around 2 months after a hair cut). 

 

 

[1978matt]

It's not that bad but if you absolutely had to do a HT then 1200 grafts to reinforce the existing hairline back to a solid NW2.  NW1 is not advised for a 24 year old.

[NARMAK]

I'm not even 100% sure if you would be classed as a solid Norwood 3 or actually a Norwood 2. 

I think your age also makes you more risky and you need to be absolutely consistent with your medication. 

You should save up and wait till at least 25 and then look for a good clinic where you can restore the temple point areas conservatively. Then you can always see how things shake out and go again for another procedure in your early 30s to refine and lower slightly if needed and your hair loss has slowed to a halt or very, very slow. 

[baldingnw3]

1 hour ago, 1978matt said:

It's not that bad but if you absolutely had to do a HT then 1200 grafts to reinforce the existing hairline back to a solid NW2.  NW1 is not advised for a 24 year old.

Hey, thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I think my angles might make it look less worse than it is or it could be my evaluation too. From the front it really looks bad imo and I have to style my hair in a way to cover the norwooded areas. Just wondering, why is NW1 not recommended for a 24 year old? (just curious because I have a lot to learn, not trynna argue or anything). Thanks a lot. 

Also, I attached 2 pictures of what I kinda wanted as an outcome of a potential HT, I was wondering if these could be achievable with 1200 grafts as you alluded to or am I not being realistic? one thing I've always wanted to know is if a hair transplant could be made square or a straight line from the front as I tried to show in the pictures below or are they always just like a circular or "bendy" shape like the shape of my hairline right now? I kind of wanted to fill in the sides as well because my "side hairline" also receded and I think if I was able to bring that in more it would frame my face nicer than now. Really appreciate your time and help, thanks

 

[dronay]

Hello,

First of all, I made a rough drawing for you because the angle of the photo is not precisely flat. Your hairline may be roughly like this, but the final decision can be your natural line with your frontal muscles.

  You are young and at average risk of hair loss until the age of 35. You can wait for the Hair Transplant operation. But if you don't want to wait, you should transplant between your existing hair marked with an arrow. Because if your existing hair falls out in a few years, a bad gap may occur.

You currently need about 2000-2500 grafts. Your donor area will still have 3000-4000 graft potential after the operation. If you need it after 10-20 years.

Dr.Kuddusi ONAY

Edited August 17, 2022 by dronay

[baldingnw3]

36 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I'm not even 100% sure if you would be classed as a solid Norwood 3 or actually a Norwood 2. 

I think your age also makes you more risky and you need to be absolutely consistent with your medication. 

You should save up and wait till at least 25 and then look for a good clinic where you can restore the temple point areas conservatively. Then you can always see how things shake out and go again for another procedure in your early 30s to refine and lower slightly if needed and your hair loss has slowed to a halt or very, very slow. 

Hey, thanks for your reply. Yea some people have said im NW 3 and others have said NW 2.5. Hopefully its the lower one on the scale. I hate it because I have this bit of hair in the "middle" of my skull but then on the sides there's nothing so I can't even style up my hair and it makes me look a good 12 to 15 years older. I will absolutely be more consistent with my medications and I should have been a good 6 to 7 years ago. Is there anything you'd reccomend in terms of a regiment to regrow and/or prevent further recession? Also, I've attached 2 markup pictures of something I'd like to achieve via HT and/or  regrowth regiment, could you please tell me if that's realistic and if so, how many grafts I'd have to use to achieve them? Can I use beard hair or under-the-neck hair? Thanks for your time and help, appreciate your input. 

 

 

[NARMAK]

42 minutes ago, baldingnw3 said:

Hey, thanks for your reply. Yea some people have said im NW 3 and others have said NW 2.5. Hopefully its the lower one on the scale. I hate it because I have this bit of hair in the "middle" of my skull but then on the sides there's nothing so I can't even style up my hair and it makes me look a good 12 to 15 years older. I will absolutely be more consistent with my medications and I should have been a good 6 to 7 years ago. Is there anything you'd reccomend in terms of a regiment to regrow and/or prevent further recession? Also, I've attached 2 markup pictures of something I'd like to achieve via HT and/or  regrowth regiment, could you please tell me if that's realistic and if so, how many grafts I'd have to use to achieve them? Can I use beard hair or under-the-neck hair? Thanks for your time and help, appreciate your input. 

 

 

Okay, so in terms of your regimen, i would strongly urge you to try see if you can build up to 1mg Finasteride per day. That will block the maximum DHT at that dosage you can to help stop hair loss and reverse miniaturisation of any hairs that might be able to be saved. 

2nd option is to add Microneedling at 1mm to 1.5mm into your routine once a week. You can do this with a Derma pen which is the most effective method. 

3rd is to start using Nizoral 1-2x a week with 2% ketoconazole as the active ingredient. It helps with marginal DHT inhibition used correctly. 

In terms of Minoxodil, not sure i would recommend it for you at this stage but if you were willing to use it and be extremely consistent and know you cannot stop, then it's up to yourself if you want to take it. Personally speaking i used the above but Dutasteride instead of Finasteride. 

In terms of beard hair, you do not want them anywhere near the frontal hairline at all. They're usually more coarse and better used in the mid scalp to crown in conjunction with scalp hair for better coverage and density with people who have weaker donor areas 

Lastly, to be frank, those hairlines are unrealistic for you. You can hypothetically get them done, but given your age and current hair loss, it wouldn't be wise. I think given what you drew, you should probably click my link in my signature and go have a browse at my pre-op and post-op photos. It's got the more square boxed off look, but you actually might be surprised to see how much closer they stuck to my native hairline than even i thought. Now, bear in mind, i was 32 when i got my first hair transplant. I had been on Dutasteride for just over 12 months when i went for mine and my hair loss fortunately for me had actually not been as aggressive as it is for others BUT i will call that compensation for basically having had my temple points ripped away in my mid to late teens. The frontal hairline slowly receded over time too and i just wish i hadn't allowed myself to listen to the BS around Finasteride and started medication so late. I could probably have saved more hair hopping on it at 21-25.

OP, don't rush into a hair transplant. The consequences aren't easy to fix if something goes wrong and your donor area is finite. Better to wait than get it wrong and be a repair case. 

[Dillpickle123]

2000 grafts at most I believe maybe less you have to be committed to staying on fin

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, baldingnw3 said:

Hey, thanks for your reply. Yea some people have said im NW 3 and others have said NW 2.5. Hopefully its the lower one on the scale. I hate it because I have this bit of hair in the "middle" of my skull but then on the sides there's nothing so I can't even style up my hair and it makes me look a good 12 to 15 years older. I will absolutely be more consistent with my medications and I should have been a good 6 to 7 years ago. Is there anything you'd reccomend in terms of a regiment to regrow and/or prevent further recession? Also, I've attached 2 markup pictures of something I'd like to achieve via HT and/or  regrowth regiment, could you please tell me if that's realistic and if so, how many grafts I'd have to use to achieve them? Can I use beard hair or under-the-neck hair? Thanks for your time and help, appreciate your input. 

 

 

This is way to aggressive. Hair loss is progressive, you need to think about your future and future hair loss. 

[John1991]

50 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is way to aggressive. Hair loss is progressive, you need to think about your future and future hair loss. 

This.  Also, even if he never lost a single hair for the rest of his life, I genuinely think a slightly recessed hairline on a grown man looks as good as does a lower, more boxed in one.  And even recession often leaves a straight appearance from the front, so it's not as if it will be overly curvy when viewed from any real life angle.  If you care enough to post here surely you care enough to apply minoxidil for 3 minutes a night 6 (or 7) nights a week.  The worst thing that happens if you stop is you shed, look worse than you did when you started, then bounce back to baseline.  It's worth a shot to see if it can add to your overall thickness for sure, OP.

Edited August 18, 2022 by John1991

[baldingnw3]

7 hours ago, dronay said:

Hello,

First of all, I made a rough drawing for you because the angle of the photo is not precisely flat. Your hairline may be roughly like this, but the final decision can be your natural line with your frontal muscles.

  You are young and at average risk of hair loss until the age of 35. You can wait for the Hair Transplant operation. But if you don't want to wait, you should transplant between your existing hair marked with an arrow. Because if your existing hair falls out in a few years, a bad gap may occur.

You currently need about 2000-2500 grafts. Your donor area will still have 3000-4000 graft potential after the operation. If you need it after 10-20 years.

Dr.Kuddusi ONAY

Dr Kuddusi, Thanks for getting back to me and I really appreciate your input. Sorry about the pictures. I will try to upload flat images of my hairline tomorrow (I'm guessing this means flat in level with the hair so that the camera is 180 degrees to the hairline but I could be wrong about this). 

Thanks for mentioning the part about transplanting between the receded areas. I definitely had these areas in mind to be covered by the hair transplant. Will I require 2000-2500 grafts for the area that you showed (meaning the arrows) or will 2000 to 2500 grafts cover more than just the area shown in your markup? Also, if I wanted to have a square/boxed in look to my hairline so that the front of my hairline was just a straight line, is that something that can be achieved by surgeons or is it not done? 

I've attached 2 markups of what I had in mind (at least initially, maybe I was too optimistic or had unrealistic expectations) of what I wanted for a HT below. Can you please comment on if this is possible, if you recommend it, any other suggestions you have and if it is possible, how many grafts roughly would be required to achieve this? 

Thank you so much for your time and help, I really value your input. 

 

[baldingnw3]

3 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is way to aggressive. Hair loss is progressive, you need to think about your future and future hair loss. 

Hi Melvin, thanks for your honest input, I appreciate it. I'm quite new to hair transplant science and recovering hairlines so I was just wondering if you could please elaborate on that because I never really heard of aggressive hair transplants vs not aggressive. Like does it being aggressive mean that if I transplant these areas it would require too many grafts and I won't have enough left over for later? Maybe this is naive but I was kind of hoping to achieve a lower and more boxed appearance for my hairline to give myself even 4 to 6 years of a youthful look in terms of my hairline even if that meant having less grafts in the future and I felt that a rigorous regiment of hair loss prevention medication would reduce or prevent further recession after getting the more advanced and boxed/square look. Is this achievable and if so how many grafts might this require? I really appreciate your honest opinion because right now I just have my own desire and expectations which could be risky so I'm just trying to gather input about my situation right now and the solutions. Thank you so much. 

[baldingnw3]

2 hours ago, John1991 said:

This.  Also, even if he never lost a single hair for the rest of his life, I genuinely think a slightly recessed hairline on a grown man looks as good as does a lower, more boxed in one.  And even recession often leaves a straight appearance from the front, so it's not as if it will be overly curvy when viewed from any real life angle.  If you care enough to post here surely you care enough to apply minoxidil for 3 minutes a night 6 (or 7) nights a week.  The worst thing that happens if you stop is you shed, look worse than you did when you started, then bounce back to baseline.  It's worth a shot to see if it can add to your overall thickness for sure, OP.

Hey John, thanks for your reply. 

Honestly for me I don't want my hairline lowered in comparison to what I naturally had but I do want to bring in my "side hairline" and to fill in the temples even a little bit while creating a straight line from the front. Like maybe something like this? (image attached). Would this be achievable with say 1500 to 2000 grafts? With regards to my regiment I do use fin of 1mg every other day. For minoxidil I used the foam version for a little bit last year but only for like 2 months which obviously is too short. I want to use oral minoxidil and I'm thinking of switching to or even adding topical fin and maybe dermarolling to my routine. I wish I had started fin earlier but I have been using it on and off for 2.5 years now and I have been much more consistent over the past 6 months. Thanks, I really value your time and help. 

 

[baldingnw3]

11 hours ago, baldingnw3 said:

Hi everyone, I'm 24 and new to this forum and this is my first post.

 

I've been struggling with hair loss since I was 17 or so. I'm already a norwood 3 and want to know what options I have to tackle this especially in terms of how many grafts I'd need for a hair transplant to cover my temple areas which I've lost. I've been using fin 1mg on and off for the last 2.5 years and in the last 6 months I've been quite consistent and have been using 1mg of oral fin every other day. However, I haven't experienced any regrowth on my temple areas and I'm considering oral or topical minoxidil and dermarolling too. (but I'm not sure if these actions would even help or if they're just a waste)

 

I would really appreciate it if someone could please give me an estimate of how many grafts I might need to get a norwood 1 hairline just so that I have a rough estimate. I was also wondering if its possible to transplant beard hair and "under the neck hair" to the temple areas because I grow beard hair very easily and if they can also be used that would help a lot. If so, are there are known surgeons who do this? Lastly, how do I know if my hair loss is DHT related or if its some other reason? And does anyone have experience with oral vs topical fin? Last question for people who are more experienced with hair transplants is if anyone knows if surgeons can create a hairline that is square from the front after a hair transplant instead of being round? By square I mean from the front line it would be a straight line rather than like a valley. 

 

Appreciate your input and hope to interact with you guys. 

 

Note: Sorry for all the pics but I wanted to properly depict my hairline recession on the temples from various angles and also at different lengths of my hair (one after a hair cut and one around 2 months after a hair cut). 

 

 

Also, sorry, I should have mentioned this earlier but I am not balding on my crown and I don't think I'm thinning anywhere else. It's my temple areas that have receded a lot and that's what I'd like to recover. Thanks everyone for all your help

[Mike10]

you are not NW3. you are  NW2. and going to a NW1 at 24 is ill advised

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

Greetings of the day @baldingnw3,

You are a NW2, Your age is a important factor because baldness is more progressive during 20-30's. Start with Finasteride to stop the further baldness and it is advisable to younger patient's to start finasteride in early stage. 

If you are very much concerned about the hairline, then I think around 1500-1800 grafts will be good enough to bring your down hairline, we ensure a conservative approach is taken and you shall commit to finasteride to increase the longevity of transplanted grafts. 

You can send me a personalized message and I will be happy to arrange a one-to-one session with our doctors. 

Regards,
Eugenix Hair Science

[mister_25]

To be honest your hair looks fine for now. Just maintain on medication and see where you are 10 years from now.

[dronay]

3 hours ago, baldingnw3 said:

Dr Kuddusi, Thanks for getting back to me and I really appreciate your input. Sorry about the pictures. I will try to upload flat images of my hairline tomorrow (I'm guessing this means flat in level with the hair so that the camera is 180 degrees to the hairline but I could be wrong about this). 

Thanks for mentioning the part about transplanting between the receded areas. I definitely had these areas in mind to be covered by the hair transplant. Will I require 2000-2500 grafts for the area that you showed (meaning the arrows) or will 2000 to 2500 grafts cover more than just the area shown in your markup? Also, if I wanted to have a square/boxed in look to my hairline so that the front of my hairline was just a straight line, is that something that can be achieved by surgeons or is it not done? 

I've attached 2 markups of what I had in mind (at least initially, maybe I was too optimistic or had unrealistic expectations) of what I wanted for a HT below. Can you please comment on if this is possible, if you recommend it, any other suggestions you have and if it is possible, how many grafts roughly would be required to achieve this? 

Thank you so much for your time and help, I really value your input. 

 

We do not recommend hair transplantation to the last part you drew at your age. Because the grafts planted in that area will be healthy and strong. But your existing hair between that area and your ear may weaken after 5-10 years. And as a result, the hair we transplant can cause an unnatural look like "Island". Because the transplanted hair will remain thick for a lifetime.

Your existing hair should be tightened so that the number of grafts does not exceed 2500. Your donor area is perfectly healthy. We can plan approximately 1500-1750 grafts to completely balding areas, 500-750 grafts to your existing hair.

 

Dr.Kuddusi ONAY

[Melvin- Admin]

9 hours ago, baldingnw3 said:

Hi Melvin, thanks for your honest input, I appreciate it. I'm quite new to hair transplant science and recovering hairlines so I was just wondering if you could please elaborate on that because I never really heard of aggressive hair transplants vs not aggressive. Like does it being aggressive mean that if I transplant these areas it would require too many grafts and I won't have enough left over for later? Maybe this is naive but I was kind of hoping to achieve a lower and more boxed appearance for my hairline to give myself even 4 to 6 years of a youthful look in terms of my hairline even if that meant having less grafts in the future and I felt that a rigorous regiment of hair loss prevention medication would reduce or prevent further recession after getting the more advanced and boxed/square look. Is this achievable and if so how many grafts might this require? I really appreciate your honest opinion because right now I just have my own desire and expectations which could be risky so I'm just trying to gather input about my situation right now and the solutions. Thank you so much. 

Let me break it down by illustrating.

Here’s 32 year old Bruce Willis, he’s a Norwood 3/4. Let’s say he would have gone to a surgeon and asked for a hairline like you drew. Let’s just examine how he’d fair over the years

Now less than 10 years later in his late 30’s you start to see thinning in the middle and crown, but the hairline is still really low.

Another 10 years goes by now he’s in his 40s, he’s now completely bald, but only has that unnaturally low hairline. 

 

Now fast forward to present day in his 60’s. His sides dropped. Donor thinned, crown expanded. Now look at how he’d look with a low hairline and no donor to make up for the rest. This is why you need to consider the future.

[MazAB]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Let me break it down by illustrating.

Here’s 32 year old Bruce Willis, he’s a Norwood 3/4. Let’s say he would have gone to a surgeon and asked for a hairline like you drew. Let’s just examine how he’d fair over the years

Now less than 10 years later in his late 30’s you start to see thinning in the middle and crown, but the hairline is still really low.

Another 10 years goes by now he’s in his 40s, he’s now completely bald, but only has that unnaturally low hairline. 

 

Now fast forward to present day in his 60’s. His sides dropped. Donor thinned, crown expanded. Now look at how he’d look with a low hairline and no donor to make up for the rest. This is why you need to consider the future.

My God @Melvin- Moderator, if that is not the best illustrated point to stop a young dude from over transplanting, I don't know what is! 🤣😂🤣😂

Follow my Journey with Eugenix and Dr Arika Bansal!

[FixMyHair213]

13 hours ago, baldingnw3 said:

Hey John, thanks for your reply. 

Honestly for me I don't want my hairline lowered in comparison to what I naturally had but I do want to bring in my "side hairline" and to fill in the temples even a little bit while creating a straight line from the front. Like maybe something like this? (image attached). Would this be achievable with say 1500 to 2000 grafts? With regards to my regiment I do use fin of 1mg every other day. For minoxidil I used the foam version for a little bit last year but only for like 2 months which obviously is too short. I want to use oral minoxidil and I'm thinking of switching to or even adding topical fin and maybe dermarolling to my routine. I wish I had started fin earlier but I have been using it on and off for 2.5 years now and I have been much more consistent over the past 6 months. Thanks, I really value your time and help. 

 

this looks extremely unnatural and you can lose hair further back from the transplanted area. get something a bit more conservative with around 1500 grafts where you will fill in the sides but still keep that natural hairline shape. the reason people don't do square hairlines is because it does not look natural. hair transplants are a cosmetic procedure in which they are trying to give you natural results as well as improving how the hair looked from before. Search up machine gun kelly hair transplant.  hes got good results in which his hair looks a lot better but does not have a square hairline. most people wouldnt even know he got something done if they didnt see him before the transplants.

[Mike10]

you need to wake up. you are only 24 and the NW0 hair line you drew is crazy. An accident in the waiting.

[baldingnw3]

45 minutes ago, FixMyHair213 said:

this looks extremely unnatural and you can lose hair further back from the transplanted area. get something a bit more conservative with around 1500 grafts where you will fill in the sides but still keep that natural hairline shape. the reason people don't do square hairlines is because it does not look natural. hair transplants are a cosmetic procedure in which they are trying to give you natural results as well as improving how the hair looked from before. Search up machine gun kelly hair transplant.  hes got good results in which his hair looks a lot better but does not have a square hairline. most people wouldnt even know he got something done if they didnt see him before the transplants.

Hey, thanks for your reply. 
I agree that most people I've come across don't have a square hairline although I have come across some guys who do and I've always found that look to be very aesthetic and I've wanted to attain that somehow. If I were to pursue that hairline, how many grafts do you think it would take? I'm guessing 1500 grafts isn't enough to achieve the markup picture that I just posted? 

Compared to the previous markup picture (in blue pen) that I posted, I moved my hairline back a little while keeping the square front so I was hoping this could be achieved with 1500 to 2000 grafts but maybe I'm underestimating the usage? 

[baldingnw3]

4 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Let me break it down by illustrating.

Here’s 32 year old Bruce Willis, he’s a Norwood 3/4. Let’s say he would have gone to a surgeon and asked for a hairline like you drew. Let’s just examine how he’d fair over the years

Now less than 10 years later in his late 30’s you start to see thinning in the middle and crown, but the hairline is still really low.

Another 10 years goes by now he’s in his 40s, he’s now completely bald, but only has that unnaturally low hairline. 

 

Now fast forward to present day in his 60’s. His sides dropped. Donor thinned, crown expanded. Now look at how he’d look with a low hairline and no donor to make up for the rest. This is why you need to consider the future.

Melvin, 

Thanks for the pictures, that really hammered home the point. I had a couple of questions for you regarding this. Sorry if I sound too persistent or stubborn but I just want to make sure I have the right understanding because I'm new to this. 

I was thinking that if I do a scalp advancement and then a hair transplant I could maybe achieve the hairline mark up picture (blue marker) and then I could just hold on to my hair for like 4 to 6 years with fin and min - so is this not a reasonable expectation from the medicines/regiment? Like does fin stop working after some years or does its effectiveness get reduced because I just wanted to create the most youthful appearance possible and then deal with the potential risk by mitigating it via fin and dut and min if needed. And if that fails, I would just use the rest of my grafts or get a hair system. 

Just for the sake of discussion, if I were to hypothetically get an HT to get the hairlines that I wanted (I've attached pictures below), how many grafts would be required? I understand the risk that you've mentioned and I will admit that its made me hesitate towards going down this route but I would really appreciate a graft estimate first as to how many grafts it might take to achieve the look that I've marked in the pictures below. Thank you so much for all your time and help, it means a lot. 

 

 

[baldingnw3]

4 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Let me break it down by illustrating.

Here’s 32 year old Bruce Willis, he’s a Norwood 3/4. Let’s say he would have gone to a surgeon and asked for a hairline like you drew. Let’s just examine how he’d fair over the years

Now less than 10 years later in his late 30’s you start to see thinning in the middle and crown, but the hairline is still really low.

Another 10 years goes by now he’s in his 40s, he’s now completely bald, but only has that unnaturally low hairline. 

 

Now fast forward to present day in his 60’s. His sides dropped. Donor thinned, crown expanded. Now look at how he’d look with a low hairline and no donor to make up for the rest. This is why you need to consider the future.

also one other thing I wanted to add was that the hairline that I drew (I might be judging it wrong) is not as low and aggressive as the one on bruce willis at 32. The shape is the same but the hairline wouldn't be as low, instead, maybe something like this: (picture attached). How many grafts would it take to get me to this hypothetically? (sorry I know its not a straight line but just to demonstrate the point, I feel like its half the height lowered and that's more along the lines of what I wanted).