HT Doubts

[Megatron]

I'm scheduled to do my first HT (and hopefully only) 5 months from now. I'm pretty comfortable with my choice of doctor. He's recommended on this forum and he posts here all the time.

 

That said, I do have doubts at times wondering if I'm doing the right thing. My wife says I don't need it (of course). I'm sure my friends will say the same when they realize I had it done(afterall, what else would they say).

 

Am I being too vain? Should I just accept going bald?

 

I'm pretty sure I'll look better after the surgery and be glad I did it. But, 10 years from now will it look weird if I lose the supporting natural hairs. Not sure if I really want to go for a 2nd and 3rd HT down the road.

 

I'm sure a lot of you guys have experienced the same thoughts so I'd really like to hear what helped you feel comfortable with the decisions you've made.

[dakota3]

I cant answer for you but I was in your place several years ago. Having to make a decision whether to have a HT or not. I made the decision to have it and have regretted it every day since. Keep in mind though that I went to bosley. I am now in the process of trying to make the scar look as nice as possible. I believe at this point that HT's can not offer me what I am truly after "a full head of hair", so until there is a cure "if ever" I will not consider another HT. I know that there are alot of others here that will disagree with my opinion but thats what makes everyone different. I would say to you that if your hair bothers you try shaving it down or try another style before making this HUGE decision.If you still cant live with it than do alot of research and choose a doctor based on patient results, patient recommendations and definatly dont choose based on location or cost. Good luck!!!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Megatron,

 

It's normal to experience doubts for a number of reasons. Your particular doubts seem to be regarding acceptance. Ultimately, you have to make the final call as to whether or not hair restoration is right for you. However, in my own personal life, I found that hair loss was consuming my thoughts, causing me worry, and impacting how I felt about myself. I wore a hat most places socially and felt "exposed" when it came off. Thus, in my case, surgical hair restoration took away my obsession and helped me live a much more normal and confident life.

 

I will say this however - most patients require more than one procedure throughout the course of their lifetime. If you aren't prepared for the possibility of additional surgeries down the line, you may want to reconsider moving forward with the first procedure.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Bill

[Sparky]

You cant have any doubt in your mind, you have to be 100% sure to do this, because it cannot be reversed if it doesnt turn out right.

[lost my swagger]

I will say this however - most patients require more than one procedure throughout the course of their lifetime. If you aren't prepared for the possibility of additional surgeries down the line, you may want to reconsider moving forward with the first procedure.

 

 

Bill is correct here... the numbers do not lie.. if you want this to be a 'one and done' situation you are likely fooling yourself.. HTs do not stop hairloss from progressing. meds may and often do loose effectivness after time... you really need to look at this decision BIG PICTURE..

 

the decison to get a HT if not any easy one. i assume your going strip method, which IMO improves your chances of getting good growth, of course that also depends on your dr, the size of your surgery along with other often unforseen factors..of course STRIP will leave a visible liner scar in back limiting your option to BUZZ down should things not go great with your HT.. some scars close and heal tighter tan others so just as with the procedure as a whole you will be taking a risk once your head has been cut and your strip removed.

 

also just because the dr your choosing "posts here all the time" truthfully means JACK SQUAT as to whether of not you recive a good result..i truly hope for your sake, you choosing him had ZERO to do with this.

 

HTs are life time commitments, often times resulting in the patient paying MORE attention to his future hairloss, and hair in general. not forgetting hair loss forever and being care free and happy for the rest of your days.. i believe it is still a very risky procedure and you MUST understand the posters who post results online are BUT A SMALL % of the patients getting HTs, and you will still find a portion that ends up dissatisfied...

 

these are the facts my friend, some cant handle hearing them so they lable my words as 'negative'... but you simply cannot sugar coat the possibilities and risks involved or you are doing a dis service to the forum where people are supposed to come to LEARN facts.

 

be sure before you do this, there are worse things than balding naturally. TRUST ME. especially if your wife, and family love you just the way you are... all the best.

[Megatron]

not the response I expected, but I am glad everyone's being honest. i don't know how anyone can ever be 100% comfortable with their HT decision. and I realize not everyone loves their HT although I suspect for most it's because their expectation were unrealistic.

 

I guess what I've been trying to answer is will a HT make 90% of people look better? I've got Norwood 3 to 4 hairloss with a pretty good crown and top of the head so I'm thinking that 3000 grafts in the front would look good.

 

at least that's my rationale. please feel free to poke holes in my thinking

[TC17]

If you're a sensible person, you will have some fear about undergoing a hair transplant. I'd be more concerned if you weren't at all worried, because an individual who approaches hair restoration with that mentality is only setting himself up for failure. My advice is to use that feeling of apprehension to your advantage. The best thing you can do is research different physicians, clinics, techniques, and philosophies, and then decide if proceeding is right for you. After doing that, you should have a firm grasp of which physician you feel comfortable with, the limitations of hair restoration, and finally whether you are prepared to undergo the surgery.

 

*if you're only a NW 3/4, and you'll never progress past that, then 3,000 grafts should do the trick, provided that your hair characteristics aren't terrible. and for the record, if i wasn't worried about not being able to keep up with future hair loss, i would have been in the chair by now. my fear is not that the surgery won't turn out great, my fear is that my future loss will progress to the point that i would no longer be comfortable with how i would look, and would not want to spend the time to style my hair and would just prefer to be bald. unfortunately, if you undergo a HT, that option goes away forever.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Mega,

 

How old are you? As well, how "aggressive" would you say your MPB is? What kind of "pattern" have you been diagnosed with?

 

The answers to these questions, along with being on meds (namely, Propecia) will have a hugely critical effect on what I surmise to be the most telling thing you've mentioned:

 

Are you committed to going in for subsequent procedures.

 

It doesn't sound like you are, or at least you haven't really accepted that this may very well be a distinct possibility.

 

It's not bad to have doubts about the HT, in a sense -- but, IMHO, you really shouldn't have doubts about whether it is worth it, whether it is clearly a +EV ("expected value") decision going into it, or whether you "really" need it.

 

You've mentioned your wife saying you are totally fine, your friends don't give you any grief one way or another or have much of an opinion, and you've mentioned yourself wondering if you really "need" it (i.e. will appreciate, will benefit in a massive way) from whatever improvement you may get, and if you are simply being "vain"; and you've mentioned being hesitant to the very idea of requiring subsequent procedures.

 

You have time till your HT; I would mull over all these thoughts and questions and their implications, while continuing to research HTs.

[Anouar]

Do this for yourself and not for anyone else. I get this all the time and don't let this thing called vanity cloud your mind. We all live in the material world. Im 41 and plan on getting my second ht this summer. I got my first when I was 30, a thousand grafts. I didn't accomplish what I wanted but with a little nanogen fibers and styling I have been ok going on 11 years now. I have been religious about taking Proscar and Rogaine. I think this stabilized my loss and didn't leaving chasing. I could possibly go on without an ht but im tired of the nanogen and I too go through my doubts. I have also changed a number of times which doc to go with.

[Sparky]

I agree with you that if you have 3k in the front it will look mint, as long as you go to the right doc.

If you think that your hairloss is stabilizing, then it may be worth going for it mate, but your age is important, how old are you?

[EpilepticSceptic]

I think that what LMS calls "the facts" are not nearly specific enough, and you just can't make those kind of generalizations without knowing the vast PLETHORA of details that will affect the final outcome for different patients.

 

For example, hair characterisitics are a HUGE factor in the potential outcome even with today's "ultra refined" techniques. How much research have YOU done on this issue as it relates to YOUR particular situaion ? In other words, if you haven't already had a REAL in-house consultation with a respectable doc who accurately measured your 1)FU donor density 2)hair shaft diameter in microns 3)scalp laxity 4) level of minituarization in the MPB area -- THEN HOW COULD YOU HAVE ALREADY SCHEDULED YOUR HT SURGERY DATE ?????!!!!!!! Without knowing these VERY IMPORTANT details that can only be accurately measured with the right equipment you are basically shooting blind rounds in the dark thinking you may hit the target.

 

Also, you say you are between NW 3-4; but what is your AGE and family history of MPB on BOTH your mother and father's side ??? Did the men on each side have Brad Pitt hair until age 30 and then become NW 6/7 by age 40 ? Or is your dad a NW 6 and was that way since age 30 ? And did the men on your mom's side become NW 3s by age 25, but then stood that way until age 60 ? Or vice versa ?

 

These are all HUGE issues that should be part of an OBSESSIVELY DETAILED research plan BEFORE you make any decisions to sit in even the very best HT surgeon's chair!!

 

Notice that 99.9999999999% of all the guys on this (and many other) forums that bash HTs and try to convince everyone that it will be the worst mistake of your life DID NOT DO THEIR RESEARCH PROPERLY !!!!! Most of them had HTs in their 20s fully knowing that the older men in their family were cueball chrome-dome NW6/7s. And now they have serious regrets about making an obviously poor decision, because they should never have done it in the first place. And few of them (if any) ever list what their donor characteristics were pre-HT, which basically makes their anti-HT rants completely useless from the perspective of informing an objective scientific assesment of what YOUR potential outcome can be!!!

 

Here's some info. on me: I'm NW3 vertex with normal density on top, 40.5 years old with no substantial additional loss since age 25, 90+ FU per sq. cm donor density, hair shaft diameter of 75 microns,excellent scalp laxity, and a relatively small head. My father is a NW 6 and has been that way since age 28 (I have seen the photos, so this is not merely based upon his memory). I have an older brother (age 50) who has essentially the exact same hairloss pattern as me, and he has been that way since age 25. On my mother's side there are no uncles; but her father had this exact same NW 3 pattern and he maintained it until his death in his late 60s WITHOUT proscar! I have other hair characterisitics that are exclusively from my mother's genetics like color, shaft diameter, and a "ducktail" that grows down the back of my neck. My NW 6 bald father has none of these traits.

 

So, as you can see I have researched this quite throughly. I feel the chances of me progressing to NW 6 are likely less than 30% at this point. With the proscar it's probably even less than that, like maybe 25%. If I was 30 or younger I COULD NOT as easily make this assumption, and I would hold off on getting a HT. All of these other anti-HT SCREAMERS on here were mostly dudes in their 20s who thought they could "chase" their hairloss, and many of them bought the line of the HT mills. Now they preuse the forums trying to convince just about everyone that getting a HT will be the worst mistake of their life, or that you may look great now but in your 60s and 70s (when you're in a frickin wheelchair with people changing your diapers) you'll regret it.

 

All I can say is DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! Look at cases like NicNitro, Futzyhead, Spex, and even Jotronic (who BTW was a repair patient with very fine hair shaft diameter). Do these patients feel this was rthe worst mistake of their life ? And of course there are many, many more like them out there enjoying their lives and no longer spending their precious days perusing these forums trying to convince every newbie that a HT will be their worst nightmare. The ones who stick around forever trying to warn people are mostly the ones who were bad cantidates from the start!

 

And as far as all the repair patients who I have heard rant about how happy they would be just to be a "normal" bald guy, I don't beleive ANY of them have actually progressed beyond a NW4. So they have never been COMPLETELY bald to see that they look like a 60 year old man at age 30 when staring in the mirror; yet they "dream" about just being able to bald naturally, just as they "dreamed" about having their hair back pre-HT. They don't even know what the hell they will look like, but they are certain that it will be the end-all solution for them. I'm talking about guys that had decent FU modern transplants but feel it was the worst mistake of their life, and you see some pics of their head and they look like a NW2 yet they are SURE they would be much happier looking like Telly Sevales.

[hairthere]

Megatron, I've had two HTs thus far; one from a lousy doc (Joseph Karamikian) and one from a top doc (Feller). That being said, I think even if I had gone to Dr. Feller from the start, I would have needed two HTs to be happy. Instead I think I'll need at least one more (three total) to be fully comfortable with my hair.

 

I know I would be miserable if I hadn't gotten any HT work done. I was beginning to look like an old man and just wasn't happy with my appearance. Now, even though I need a little dermatch, I can pull off some pretty hip hairstyles and feel like no one looks at me and a)suspects I've had work done, and b)looks like someone balding.

 

Of course, that does not mean a HT will do the same for you, but with a quality doctor and the right hair characteristics, I think you have a good shot. best of luck!

[EpilepticSceptic]

Any pre-HT and post-HT pics for us to see ?

 

What were your characterisitcs, NW level, and donor density ?

 

Originally posted by hairthere:

Megatron, I've had two HTs thus far; one from a lousy doc (Joseph Karamikian) and one from a top doc (Feller). That being said, I think even if I had gone to Dr. Feller from the start, I would have needed two HTs to be happy. Instead I think I'll need at least one more (three total) to be fully comfortable with my hair.

 

I know I would be miserable if I hadn't gotten any HT work done. I was beginning to look like an old man and just wasn't happy with my appearance. Now, even though I need a little dermatch, I can pull off some pretty hip hairstyles and feel like no one looks at me and a)suspects I've had work done, and b)looks like someone balding.

 

Of course, that does not mean a HT will do the same for you, but with a quality doctor and the right hair characteristics, I think you have a good shot. best of luck!

[lost my swagger]

I think that what LMS calls "the facts" are not nearly specific enough, and you just can't make those kind of generalizations

 

 

ok friend. im going to break down every single statment i made, that i deem fact. then you can explain where my logic is flawed... and more importantly WHY these GENERAL rules cannot be useful to someone struggling with their HT decision like the OP has expressed... you should NOT attempt to discredit my accurate post simply because i left out the the often used line "characteristics play a major role".. but your accurate on that point. they do.

 

here are my claims in the order i made them

 

 

1..." the vast majority of patients DO have more than one procedure"so going into this decision with that mentaity one is 'likely fooling' themselves------- in my years speaking with guys online,(active posters and quiet lurkers alike) as well as applying COMMON SENSE that in cases of MPB hairloss IS A progressive ailment, meaning that thru time those with native hair making their transplants look "good" LOSE it and to maintain something close to that natural look must and DO undergo future procedures. OR they are ALREADY high NWs in which case evidence STRONGLY suggests that they will and DO have future procedures...

 

2..."one really needs to look at this procedure big picture"........ what do you think labrat? do you feel one should do their best to factor in their long term potential future loss before making this decision?

 

 

3...strip method improves the likelyhood of better yield, but that is also contingent upon what dr you choose, and the overall size of procedure.... this is well known that strip as a whole yields better than FUE, FUE is more difficult, and more time consuming. the extraction method is NOT the same as dividing an excised strip using magnification...

 

4...'unforseen factors can and do arise'... now i admit this was a geralization so allow me to provide one example of what i meant by it... if you lurk on this site or any for that matter you WILL see cases of poor growth with no apparent reason, even from so called top docs.. in these cases the dr usually chalks it up to the patients "bad physiology" which in and of it self is a HARSH generalization made by the doctor, yet most posters simply agree and move on..while i believe this occurence is much less likely among the HANDFUL of elite drs, its still a possibility that deserves to NOT be pushed aside entirely IMO.

 

5...' just because the dr your choosing posts on this site frequently does NOT mean you are guaranteed a solid outcome' common sense.. do you disagree?

 

6..HTs are lifelong commitments, that often result in patients paying MORE attention to their hair and hairloss'..... personally this has been MY experience, i believe aaron1234's experience.. even in the more successful cases like THANA's you will notice HE is not free from his hairloss, infact he is quite cognizant of the state of his thinning crown.. making sure to 'tackle' it via any method available all while knowing he is likely doing nothing more than buying as much time as he can until he sits down in that chair again. Bill has had 4 of them, so i ask you labrat did his hairloss stop being a BIG factor in Bill life after his 1st, 2nd or even 3rd!! procedure?? what do you think?.. these are just 4 tiny examples of my larger point that anyone can feel FREE TO CHALLENGE IF they WOULD LIKE... the point is that HTs(even successful ones) do not free you psychologically from your hairloss they make you more aware of the natural progression of it and i know first hand the LESS SUCCESSFUL HTs put the patient in a state where he wants nothing more than to take back his decision and bald naturally, however my large ear to ear scar and my poorly placed and sparse grafted hairline remind me every day that the option to bald naturally is a LUXURY i can no longer choose... so even if your situation has improved for the time being due to your HT, hairloss is never far from the HTers mind.

 

7...'the online forums are but a SMALL % of the patients getting this procedure EVERY day. even by these top docs. and you WILL still find unhappy patients/poor outcomes arise. if your paying attention".... feel free to dispute this if you would like, if you ask me the writting is on the wall just as it is with everything else i said.. there is but ONE clinic out there that is EXTREMELY difficult to find mediocre results

 

8..you simply cannot sugar coat the possibilities and risks involved or you are doing a dis-service to the viewers who come here to learn what IS resulting from the decision to undergo this procedure, both the good and the bad...... well said LMS, well said

 

BTW, labrat i enjoyed reading your post. i like it.. just not the part where you call into question the statments i made as if they do not apply.. they very much do. not just to megatron but alot of others who will find themselves where he is now...

[EpilepticSceptic]

LMS,

 

Cool post! I think that you and me agree on many more things than we disagree on. I'm about as harsh and non-trusting of a sceptic as one can possibly be concerning cosmetic surgery in general; but I can be equally as harsh towards people who made poor decisions based upon unrealistic expectations or flawed research, and then try to convince ALL of us that the entire field of HT surgery is just a big lie with false promises just to steal your money and leave you on the treadmill of "touch-ups" for life. One particular poster ("regreht") who got banned from the HLH forum seemed as though he was on just such a mission. Although I found some of his posts to be very informative and well written, it became obvious that he was just disgruntled that HIS decision to have a HT was a mistake and a failure. Why ? Because he chose to have it in his 20s BEFORE his hairloss pattern had matured, and therefore had HT hairs placed between his doomed hair on top that was destined to fall out. He acted as if it was the entire HT industry's fault that he was allowed to make this decision, and he viewed EVERY clinic as nothing more than an unethical mill looking to get rich by disfiguring people for life. He considered himself to be a "repair patient", yet when he posted pics of his donor scar it was a fine pencil line scar; and he also still had ALOT of hair on top of his head (MUCH more than most of us), yet he claimed to be angry about just not being able to "bald naturally." My opinion of him was that he was full of BS because he has not yet experienced loosing enough hair to see himself look 20-30 years older than he really is, along with the difference in how people (women especially) look at you and treat you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you have HT hairs planted in between existing hair in the MPB area (ESPECIALLY if you are in you 20s or 30s)that it is LIKELY you will lose that native hair and need more surgeries later, or be left with a very sparse and unnatural looking HT.

 

Anyway, I'm so conservative that I don't believe anybody under 30 years old should even remotely consider a HT UNLESS they are already a NW 6 and are one of the lucky few that have superman donor characteristics. If you are a diffuse thinner and you can see the obvious NW6 pattern developing in your 20s/30s then chances are likely less than 30% (IMHO) that you are even a remotely good cantidate -- even WITH propecia! Unless you have coarse, curly hair, average 100+ FU per sq. cm in the donor, above average contrast ratio, have a relatively small head, and mutant laxity then the best you can hope to acheive is a thin see-through look.

 

But on the other hand if you are like me then it's probably quite possible you could do 1 pass of 4000+ (at the best clinic out there)and be good to go for at least another 10 years before needing another session. I just think too many people on these forums think that every HT cantidate is a guy in his 20s destined to become a NW 6 and not thinking this out rationally. For every disgruntled HT patient who feels it was the "worst mistake" of his life there are probably 100 who think it was the best decision of their life and never bother to return to the forums.

 

 

Originally posted by lost my swagger:

I think that what LMS calls "the facts" are not nearly specific enough, and you just can't make those kind of generalizations

 

 

ok friend. im going to break down every single statment i made, that i deem fact. then you can explain where my logic is flawed... and more importantly WHY these GENERAL rules cannot be useful to someone struggling with their HT decision like the OP has expressed... you should NOT attempt to discredit my accurate post simply because i left out the the often used line "characteristics play a major role".. but your accurate on that point. they do.

 

here are my claims in the order i made them

 

 

1..." the vast majority of patients DO have more than one procedure"so going into this decision with that mentaity one is 'likely fooling' themselves------- in my years speaking with guys online,(active posters and quiet lurkers alike) as well as applying COMMON SENSE that in cases of MPB hairloss IS A progressive ailment, meaning that thru time those with native hair making their transplants look "good" LOSE it and to maintain something close to that natural look must and DO undergo future procedures. OR they are ALREADY high NWs in which case evidence STRONGLY suggests that they will and DO have future procedures...

 

2..."one really needs to look at this procedure big picture"........ what do you think labrat? do you feel one should do their best to factor in their long term potential future loss before making this decision?

 

 

3...strip method improves the likelyhood of better yield, but that is also contingent upon what dr you choose, and the overall size of procedure.... this is well known that strip as a whole yields better than FUE, FUE is more difficult, and more time consuming. the extraction method is NOT the same as dividing an excised strip using magnification...

 

4...'unforseen factors can and do arise'... now i admit this was a geralization so allow me to provide one example of what i meant by it... if you lurk on this site or any for that matter you WILL see cases of poor growth with no apparent reason, even from so called top docs.. in these cases the dr usually chalks it up to the patients "bad physiology" which in and of it self is a HARSH generalization made by the doctor, yet most posters simply agree and move on..while i believe this occurence is much less likely among the HANDFUL of elite drs, its still a possibility that deserves to NOT be pushed aside entirely IMO.

 

5...' just because the dr your choosing posts on this site frequently does NOT mean you are guaranteed a solid outcome' common sense.. do you disagree?

 

6..HTs are lifelong commitments, that often result in patients paying MORE attention to their hair and hairloss'..... personally this has been MY experience, i believe aaron1234's experience.. even in the more successful cases like THANA's you will notice HE is not free from his hairloss, infact he is quite cognizant of the state of his thinning crown.. making sure to 'tackle' it via any method available all while knowing he is likely doing nothing more than buying as much time as he can until he sits down in that chair again. Bill has had 4 of them, so i ask you labrat did his hairloss stop being a BIG factor in Bill life after his 1st, 2nd or even 3rd!! procedure?? what do you think?.. these are just 4 tiny examples of my larger point that anyone can feel FREE TO CHALLENGE IF they WOULD LIKE... the point is that HTs(even successful ones) do not free you psychologically from your hairloss they make you more aware of the natural progression of it and i know first hand the LESS SUCCESSFUL HTs put the patient in a state where he wants nothing more than to take back his decision and bald naturally, however my large ear to ear scar and my poorly placed and sparse grafted hairline remind me every day that the option to bald naturally is a LUXURY i can no longer choose... so even if your situation has improved for the time being due to your HT, hairloss is never far from the HTers mind.

 

7...'the online forums are but a SMALL % of the patients getting this procedure EVERY day. even by these top docs. and you WILL still find unhappy patients/poor outcomes arise. if your paying attention".... feel free to dispute this if you would like, if you ask me the writting is on the wall just as it is with everything else i said.. there is but ONE clinic out there that is EXTREMELY difficult to find mediocre results

 

8..you simply cannot sugar coat the possibilities and risks involved or you are doing a dis-service to the viewers who come here to learn what IS resulting from the decision to undergo this procedure, both the good and the bad...... well said LMS, well said

 

BTW, labrat i enjoyed reading your post. i like it.. just not the part where you call into question the statments i made as if they do not apply.. they very much do. not just to megatron but alot of others who will find themselves where he is now...

[EpilepticSceptic]

Considering LMS's motto "RESULTS WILL, WITHOUT A DOUBT, 100% VARY", here are my responses to his many well thought out points:

 

1)"THE VAST MAJORITY OF PATIENTS DO HAVE MORE THAN 1 PROCEDURE": True, but what percentage of these patients are 40+ years old, NW4 or less with stabilized hairloss, and NOT diffuse thinners with the hair shaft caliber of the hair on top EQUAL to that of the hair in the donor area ?

 

2)"ONE REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE OF THIS PROCEDURE": True, but the important details of that BIG picture will, without a doubt, 100% vary from patient to patient.

 

3)"STRIP METHOD INCREASES THE LIKELYHOOD OF BETTER YIELD": Yes !! And I am very glad you mentioned this, because years ago on the HLH forum there were MANY FUE cheerleaders who were CERTAIN that in a few short years the "barbaric, stone-age" method of STRIP would surely be a thing of the past. I was one of the doubters in the minority. Why ? Where was the PROOF ? Enough labrats had not yet gone under the knife for me to overcome my skepticism. I even turned down a FREE FUE surgery from a certain clinic in Greece because they could not show me the PROOF!! It was a nice free trip though, and I got to stay in a swank hotel near the Agean sea. I almost didn't make it out of there with my virgin scalp intact; they were VERY upset that I backed out. Now all these years later (after a LONG break from the forums)I come back to see that Dr. A has hacked up probably hundreds of guys in their 20s and wrecked their donors for life, leaving them with 10% yield. And Dr. Cole's clinic seems to have taken a nose dive as well, and you see posts from people in the "repair" sections that say it looks like somebody let off a round of buckshot in the back of their head. So much for the "scar free" hype of FUE over STRIP. Sure am glad I didn't have to be one of those labrats who believed all the hype back then. But then again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how microscopic dissection of grafts increases the likelyhood of better yield over punching them out with a "minimally invasive" punch tool. Yeah, maybe minimally invasive because it avoids cutting out a large piece of tissue from your head -- but probably "maximally invasive" to the delicate grafts compared to microscopic dissection!!

 

4) UNFORSEEN FACTORS CAN, AND DO, ARISE: Yes indeed, but it's the same with every other area of medicine. There are cases where people die from very minor surgeries because of negative reactions to anasthesia. Does this mean ALL of us should avoid minor surgeries because of this 1% chance? With STRIP in the right hands I would think the potential for sub-par growth is likely very small; so many countless thousands of labrats have gone under the knife with this method in the last 20 years that one can make a reasonably safe assumption of his/her odds for a successful surgery. With FUE, on the other hand, one cannot be so sure and I would think the odds of poor yield are much higher even in the very best hands.

 

5) JUST BECAUSE THE DOCTOR OF YOUR CHOICE POSTS ON THIS (AND OTHER)SITES FREQUENTLY DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE GUARUNTEED A SOLID OUTCOME: True again, but there is indeed ONE clinic who says that their results are guarunteed. They also happen to be the only one that posts HD video of results where you see the comb parting the scalp all over the head, as well as showing just how hard it is to find the linear scar. I guess it's because they really have nothing to hide.

 

6) "HTs ARE LIFELONG COMMITMENTS THAT OFTEN RESULTS IN PATIENTS PAYING MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR HAIR AND HAIRLOSS": True again, but is this a negative or a positive ? I think that will depend on the patient you are asking. Being that "bald guy" is also a lifelong comittment, just one that doesn't cost anything-- unless you factor in the cost of a lifetime of hookers, which these days probably far exceeds that of a HT. For ANYONE who thinks that his (modern UR FUT)HT was a mistake I CHALLENGE YOU to take an electric razor and shave down to a NW 7 pattern, leaving the "naturally balding" fringe of hair behind. This is EASY to do, and no need to worry about that nasty scar being visible through that fringe. DO IT and take a GOOD LOOK at yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are YOU happy to just "bald naturally" NOW ??? Take it a step further and take a stroll in the local mall and see how good you feel in your "naturally balding" skin. Are any here brave enough to do it ? I doubt it, so if not then STOP talking about something that is just a fanciful conjecture of the mind. I think I'd rather still be paying attention to my hair because I still think I'm attractive than just "letting go" and accepting myself as that "bald guy" who is 30 years older looking than his real age, and who gets rejected even by women in their 50s and 60s who still think of themselves as hotties and are just "not attracted to baldies."

 

7) "THE ONLINE FORUMS ARE JUST A SMALL % OF PEOPLE GETTING HTs. EVEN AMONGST THE TOP DOCS YOU WILL STILL FIND UNHAPPY PATIENTS": True again, but the definition of "unhappy" varies GREATLY from patient to patient. I've seen some guys SCREAMING on the forums about their horrible outcome, and then you see the photos and the dude was a solid NW 2 who is upset that he's not now a perfect NW1 after a 1000 graft surgery. Those are the kind of people who I would probably give a bloody nose to if they were standing in front of me telling me that!!! They DON'T know what it means to be SIGNIFICANTLY BALDING, and so they act like it is the end of their life to only have 99.9% of Brad Pitts hair. If they had ever undergone the RADICAL transformation (Futzyhead comes to mind) in appearence that occurs from significant balding (as well as loss of self esteem), then most of them would not consider their results to be failures. Then again, there are those legitimate cases of failure that are indeed depressing to witness. But you did mention that 1 VERY special clinic who seems to have very few (if any) of these outcomes. I think anyone who has done their research properly knows who that clinic is.

 

8) "YOU SIMPLY CAN'T SUGARCOAT THE POSSIBILITIES AND RISKS INVOLVED, EVEN WITH TODAY'S BEST DOCS AND RADICALLY IMPROVED TECHNIQUES": Agreed, mon frere! But do you still think I am someone who would like to do that ? I've done my homework on this for over 5 years now. I've seen ALOT of hype come and go, and I've also seen the winning horse pull far away from the rest of the pack. Like Nic Nitro said so wisely: "RESULTS SPEAK VOLUMES". Smart guy, that Nic Nitro -- and looking 20 years younger these days. I don't think he is regretting his decision (now or in the future) at all, and I don't believe I will either.

[Bill - Seemiller]

5...' just because the dr your choosing posts on this site frequently does NOT mean you are guaranteed a solid outcome' common sense.. do you disagree?

 

Swagger,

 

I'll disagree with your post above, or at least what it implies. The majority of physicians who post here have been prescreened, have met our demanding standards, and have been approved by this community for recommendation. To see a list of all the physicians we recommend, click here. While there is never a 100% "guarantee", our physicians strive to give their patients the very best results and stand behind their patients. While you may not have meant to dismiss this, I felt I had to comment since it could have been incorrectly inferred.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill

[Megatron]

great debate guys. very informative.

 

labrat, I did have a hair consultation with the doctor who I am scheduled to do my surgery with. In fact, I was very happy to see this doctor just made the Coalition. I've done as much research as I think one can do choosing a doctor. His results look very impressive (albeit I don't know if their typical or extraordinary) and he seems very passionate about his craft.

 

I 34yrs old. My hair loss was aggressive from about 'till about 24 which is when I started with Rogaine & Propecia. I've been on one or the other and sometimes both for 10 years and I've not noticed any more recession.

 

As LMS said, the one thing that really scares me is if I don't get a decent enough yeild that I'm forced to shave the areas where I had the HT. I really, really hope I don't have to go for a 2nd/3rd HT, but if I do need one 10 years from now, oh well.

 

Any more comments/advice? I'm all ears.

[EpilepticSceptic]

I don't know man, this HT decision stuff is a tough call when you really know all the details. Thank god for forums like this where you can get down to the dirty, non-sugarcoated details of what one can realistically expect. Years ago the shills and the marketing demons could really pull the wool over our eyes.

 

For me the clincher is that everytime I see my 10 year older brother and realize that he is still a solid NW3 (without proscar!)it just seems that I'd be a fool not to go thru with this from unwarranted worry. I've studied the baldness patterns of the men in my family on both sides, and I think at my age it is pretty safe to conclude that both me and my brother got my grandfather's (on mother's side) pattern. It all just adds up and makes sense. My grandmother told me when they married he was 26, and his hair always looked the same (that Richard Nixon pattern). My brother is frickin 50 years old and what he has up there is normal density thick hair. So i have ALOT of confidence at this point in avoiding the dreaded "chasing your hairloss" issue. I started taking fin. at age 30, even though from 25-30 the loss had halted. I saw it as some kind of insurance policy, though I could probably stop it now and still maintain what I have -- but I won't cause even 1% of that risk is not worth it!

 

But if you've been on it since 24 that's a different call IMO. I would look CLOSELY at the MPB men in your family and try to find out how their patterns progressed. In other words, did ANY of them have NW2 hair til age 35 and then become NW6 from age 35-50 ? Some people get these type MPB genes, whereas others lose it all by age 25. My dad was a NW6 at age 28, so I know now for a fact that I dodged the bullet of getting his loss pattern! And he had 3 brothers, 1 who is a NW6 like him (at age 28)and 2 that kept their hair all their life.

 

It's always a crap shoot, but at this point for me the verdict is looking more peachy every day! It's funny, but I used to dread the thought of getting older because I was SURE I would be bald like my dad. But now I almost wish I was 50 because every day I get more confident that my genetic destiny was more on the lucky side! I just don't believe anybody beyond NW5 is really a good HT cantidate for what i want to achieve with it.

 

 

Originally posted by Megatron:

great debate guys. very informative.

 

labrat, I did have a hair consultation with the doctor who I am scheduled to do my surgery with. In fact, I was very happy to see this doctor just made the Coalition. I've done as much research as I think one can do choosing a doctor. His results look very impressive (albeit I don't know if their typical or extraordinary) and he seems very passionate about his craft.

 

I 34yrs old. My hair loss was aggressive from about 'till about 24 which is when I started with Rogaine & Propecia. I've been on one or the other and sometimes both for 10 years and I've not noticed any more recession.

 

As LMS said, the one thing that really scares me is if I don't get a decent enough yeild that I'm forced to shave the areas where I had the HT. I really, really hope I don't have to go for a 2nd/3rd HT, but if I do need one 10 years from now, oh well.

 

Any more comments/advice? I'm all ears.

[Megatron]

unfortunately I don't have the benefit of looking at genetics because I'm adopted. Aggressive hair loss for me began around 18/19. I wasn't taking proper care of my scalp at the time either though. At around 22-24 (can't remember exactly) I started Propecia and took excellent care of my hair. Since that time I've noticed hardly any change.

 

I am committed to continue using Rogaine & Propecia. My doctor said he thinks it unlikely that I would progress to a NW 6, but that it's impossible to know for sure. Posting on this thread has made me more open to the idea that I have to accept a 2nd maybe 3rd HT procedure if I lose it on the crown and midscalp respectively. And if I progress to a NW 6 then I'm ***

 

I 100% agree that a HT can't achieve the results I would want for someone with a NW 6 MPB.

[EpilepticSceptic]

Well, considering that you've been on propecia for over 10 years now I would think you are probably in the "safe zone" of knowing whether or not it will lose its' effectiveness. It's been about exactly 10 for me, and I could show you photos of the top of my head from that time that look like I had less hair then than now. So I definitely think it has helped me as well.

 

It has always made my semen watery, but I just learned to live with that. As long as the pleasure of the ejaculations are the same I really don't mind. Besides, the older males in my family have a history of prostrate problems so it's probably preventative maintenance in that regard as well. I'm convinced had I started taking it as early as you did then I would have zero thinning in the crown. That sucks because that's gonna eat up about 800 grafts according to my doc.

 

I gave up minox. a LONG time ago because, although it definitely thickened up my existing hair, it did NOTHING to help framing my face in the front. My frontal forelock is still pretty well intact, but all around it has been slick bald skin with NO hair to be found (not even vellous) since age 25. And I'm tired of looking like frickin Richard Nixon, so I'm definitely going to be making this move real soon! I'm one of those guys with certain facial features that make one look like a totally different person WITH hair framing the face. Take a good look at Futzyhead and you'll get the picture; the framing of that dude's face makes him look 20 years younger and like a totally different person. I've sat down with my girlfriend and looked at the H & W site and she was in absolute disbelief at the RADICAL difference the HTs made on certain patients. She kept making the comment that in the pre-op pics the guys would look like criminals or janitors, and in the post-op shots they looked like "normal", "happy" guys with families. And she's a real non-judgmental type sweetie, so that was startling to hear how even she will stereotype guys based upon their appearence.

 

My advice to you is try not to worry too much about your perfectly natural desire to improve your appearence. Life is too short to live in fear of the minutest chances of failure when so much PROOF exists today of success with HTs. And besides, if you need a second HT when you are 44 years old will that be the end of your life ? I mean, what about those 10 years that you would have gotten having the look that makes you happy ? Can you put a price tag on that, really ? I live in the moment, and always have a plan for the future as well. But worrying is just a big waste of energy when you know you have done your research and are well informed. When I see 50 year old guys on the H & W site looking 10 years younger than me after their world class HT-- well, that's a BIG wake-up call for me brother!!!

[Alexi]

Has anyone else heard of a warning about male breast cancer from taking Propecia, it doesn't seem to be one of these scare stories, it just says keep an eye on things, because there is a bit of an increased risk of it happening. You can read this on (promotional link removed - no links containing promotional content is allowed. Read our terms of service)