~2200 Graft FUT with Carlos Wesley, NYC, 7/21/21 2nd Surgery 539 grafts, 7/14/22

[washingtondc]

Well here I am, at 8 months.

These pictures are in softer lighting than the last set I took, which was 6 months. I also used a fine-toothed comb before taking them to distribute the strands as evenly as possible. I will say again that the HDR or whatever on my phone does increase the contrast in photos a little bit beyond what the human eye sees.

I also spoke on the phone with Dr. Wesley today. He mentioned the fact that transplants with too much density/a thick band of hair can look bad down the road. He also insisted again that no assessment can be made until the one-year mark, that FUE can take longer to come in than FUT, that the texture may change slightly. I really don't see much difference between this and 6 months, personally. A part of me thinks that maybe just a few staggered rows of a couple hundred grafts a little bit behind the hairline and filling in some gap spots could improve things. He told me that things could perhaps be touched up some, but that I would have to wait for the year mark to assess the result before that decision could be made.

I'm considering doing that because starting this whole process over with someone else just sounds so exhausting at this point, and because I've already shaved 6 spots into my head for the second procedure, and I'm really not sure I can do that again and still successfully have my hair cover the spots and not look weirdly thin in the back volume-wise.

I want to trust people telling me to wait but I also kind of feel like this doing that:

Edited March 15, 2023 by washingtondc

[asterix0]

@washingtondc It will not get much better (maybe 5% improvement tops), you are being gaslighted by being told to wait. 

[John1991]

What's it look like from a normal distance under normal lighting conditions, though?

[Berik]

@washingtondc I'm sorry you're unhappy with your results so far. I don't blame you, if I had spent top dollar and waited almost 2 years for a marginally better hairline, I would be irate. This is a laughably poor result from Dr. Wesley, and it's pretty surprising he continues to tell you to "just wait" when it's clear the density is just not there after nearly 3k grafts...

[Rolo]

How do i send a private message

[stephcurry30]

Any follow up on this thread? Did OP get a refund? 

[Rolo]

Hi There, how are your results ?  Are you still unsatisfied?   What is the Dr response?

[stephcurry30]

@Melvin- Moderator

 

Can you contact Dr Wesley for this patient? 

[BaldingEye]

On 3/15/2023 at 2:21 AM, washingtondc said:

Well here I am, at 8 months.

These pictures are in softer lighting than the last set I took, which was 6 months. I also used a fine-toothed comb before taking them to distribute the strands as evenly as possible. I will say again that the HDR or whatever on my phone does increase the contrast in photos a little bit beyond what the human eye sees.

I also spoke on the phone with Dr. Wesley today. He mentioned the fact that transplants with too much density/a thick band of hair can look bad down the road. He also insisted again that no assessment can be made until the one-year mark, that FUE can take longer to come in than FUT, that the texture may change slightly. I really don't see much difference between this and 6 months, personally. A part of me thinks that maybe just a few staggered rows of a couple hundred grafts a little bit behind the hairline and filling in some gap spots could improve things. He told me that things could perhaps be touched up some, but that I would have to wait for the year mark to assess the result before that decision could be made.

I'm considering doing that because starting this whole process over with someone else just sounds so exhausting at this point, and because I've already shaved 6 spots into my head for the second procedure, and I'm really not sure I can do that again and still successfully have my hair cover the spots and not look weirdly thin in the back volume-wise.

I want to trust people telling me to wait but I also kind of feel like this doing that:

@washingtondc How are you doing? Could you share an update with your final result?

Also, what are you planning now? Touch-up? Have you consider other clinics? 

Hope all is great! Best of luck!

[Melvin- Admin]

Can you share a final update? 

[Al - Moderator]

It looks like you have very fine hairs. I'm not sure you are ever going to get the type of dense look you want.

 

[HappyMan2021]

so your lifetime graft count is under 3k? I would not give up the fight yet, you have barely used up your graft availability. 

I do wonder why your 2nd surgery was less than 600 grafts (perhaps you already explained that in this thread, I am too busy atm to read every post)

Less than 600 grafts seems like a waste of time, I wonder why Dr. Wesley didnt opt for another 2200 or so like the first time

[Rolo]

I am female but did a second procedure with dr W 2-1/2 months ago and he only insisted to do 200 grafts but finally did 258, i have to wait to see results although i fear i will have same lack of density i was looking for in center front.  Everyone said the same that 200 wouldnt do anything but he insisted was correct amount as was just a specific area.  Lets see.  I cannot keep doing this.  I also understand Washington DC not wanting to run around to different drs but cannot understand us not getting the density we were looking for.  Also i believe the dr was concerned could damage existing hairs in the area.  

Edited July 2, 2023 by Rolo

[Balding Bad]

On 6/3/2023 at 2:54 PM, stephcurry30 said:

Any follow up on this thread? Did OP get a refund? 

Are refunds even possible? I don't believe I've heard of any clinics doing that...usually they offer free repair.

[washingtondc]

Well I've crossed the year mark. No increase in density or improvement in appearance or anything in the recipient zone since February or so... obviously. No change.

What has happened, starting since perhaps April or May, is (what I'm really hopeful and somewhat confident) is a recurrence of the telogen effluvium I experienced shortly before and after my first procedure (from March 2021 to maybe around the end of the year). There's been a bunch of what seems to be diffuse shedding on the entire top of my scalp, and seemingly the sides as well (outside the region that's traditionally affected by DHT) in a period of just maybe 2 or 3 months. My actual MPB loss to this point has been veeeerrrrryyyy gradual over more than a decade, mainly from the front working its way backward, and this seems very different from that. (Fingers crossed; this would be the equivalent of like... a grenade going off out of nowhere in a campfire that's been burning for a very long time if it's actually AGA).

This happened before, as mentioned, and everything did seem to recover months down the road, in addition to any transplant shock loss coming back in. My overall scalp (minus the hairline recipient zone of course) was at a density that was good in April; now just 3 months later there's a ton of diffuse loss that allows me to see the scalp in the middle of my head in lighting from some angles. From everything I understand about MPB, the mechanism is a very gradual loss, with the follicles being attacked by DHT, shrinking, dropping a hair as normal, the next hair coming in slightly smaller, over and over until the last miniscule hair falls and the follicle is totally dead. Not a sudden mass exodus over a couple of months that's diffuse across the top and sides of the scalp. 

My current theory is that this is (hopefully) an "echo" of my previous telogen effluvium. I experienced a traumatic trigger which pushed an extremely high percentage of hairs that had been in anagen prematurely into telogen. All of those hairs, all over the scalp (enough to make me absolutely freak out at the time) fell out in a period of a few months. They came back in, but now, a little over two years later, because they all came back into anagen in the same artificially-condensed timeframe, they've all synced onto relatively the same cycle, and are once again mostly all hitting telogen at around the same time. If every single one of your hairs followed the same schedule, we'd all be completely bald for a few months every few years. My thinking is this is hopefully not some Pearl Harbor of AGA, but the "echo" of that incident that pushed a large percentage to telogen all at once.

This has been (unsurprisingly) extremely discouraging to experience. At this point in time I'm not going to post photos because my hope and thought is that this is something unrelated to my procedures, and photos showing the state of things regressing would be unfair if that's the case. It's kind of funny in a sick way; I spent the early months of this year trying to make peace with the fact that my hairline was just going to look weird, and that I wasn't going to do any more procedures right now, and I was really pretty close to accepting that as a plan by the time it was April. Then, just about the moment I made peace with things, it all fell apart in a seemingly completely different way.

I won't know until probably the end of 2023 what the actual situation is (to give enough time for things to recover), which I feel like means it would be a bad idea to consult with anyone on a procedure now, as the current state of things is up in the air. When I spent months researching on this site and elsewhere prior to the first procedure, I felt very confident the odds were good that it would be a significant problem eliminated from my daily life about a year later. It's crazy to me that I'm in the back half of 2023 and still right in the fray of things. Depending on what actually happens, I may consider another procedure. I wish I could get the ball rolling now, but it just feels risky to do a consult in a time when I'm unsure what's going on.
 

Tagging people who asked, @Rolo @stephcurry30 @Melvin- Moderator @BaldingEye

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by washingtondc

[Rolo]

Have you spoken with dr W at all?

[washingtondc]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:48 PM, Rolo said:

Have you spoken with dr W at all?

No, not recently. Still deciding how to move forward.

[Melvin- Admin]

I’m sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction. Please reach out to Dr. Wesley, you should contact him to find the best solution moving forward. If you need help dm me.

[mxnprettynice]

You should reach out to Dr. Carlos Wesley. In many similar cases, doctors offer a free touch-up procedure. Ethical doctors should always provide a touch up if their work doesn't meet their standards.

[Rolo]

I am 4-1/2 month post 2nd op with same and although its early i think i have same issue as you. 

[consequence]

Now at a year how are things looking? I'm generally not a big fan of going back to the same doc if they didn't get it right the first time.

On 6/3/2023 at 11:54 AM, stephcurry30 said:

Any follow up on this thread? Did OP get a refund? 

Spoiler alert: they never give refunds. 🤠

Unless it's an obvious breach of conduct, and in those situations only to avoid a lawsuit. For the case to go to trial, the cost of the procedure would need to be higher than the cost of hiring an expert witness. Or the patient wants to prove a point (even when the economics of legal action don't make sense) because they felt they were seriously harmed, ie. restorative justice. 

This isn't one of those scenarios. The results aren't perfect but they're not failed either. Just thin/whispy, which we see all the time, even with the "best". Hair restoration is always a roll of the dice, probably more so in the US than in Europe as of late but things are always changing.

In any case @washingtondc what did you end up doing?

[Rolo]

Sorry to hear all the problems which i can sympatize with.  And as far as switching docs i had also considered this after the first op but my husband said to stay with him as he knew well my hairline and what had been done previously.  
i am 7 months post second op and while definitely an improvement i am not 100% satisfied as yet.  I dont know either if i would undergo a third but if i did i would most likely return to Wesley as there is little that i would want added (if i did do it and if he agreed which he might not).  

[baddecisions]

The whole story seems a nightmare, a procedure with a poor result and a not properly planned touch up, more than two years invested to look worse: yes, some more hair, but obviously not enough and, whats is more, not natural.

I wish you all the best and hope you find a doctor who can achieve a decent result.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 12/1/2023 at 12:45 PM, Rolo said:

Sorry to hear all the problems which i can sympatize with.  And as far as switching docs i had also considered this after the first op but my husband said to stay with him as he knew well my hairline and what had been done previously.  
i am 7 months post second op and while definitely an improvement i am not 100% satisfied as yet.  I dont know either if i would undergo a third but if i did i would most likely return to Wesley as there is little that i would want added (if i did do it and if he agreed which he might not).  

Do you have a thread? You should update it. Sounds like you’re almost there, at 7 months you might be satisfied by 12 months. Also, did Dr. Wesley give you a free touch-up?

[Rolo]

Yes i am under Rolo or female dr wesley, i cannot recall.  He only wanted to give me 250 thread but i insisted on more saying i would pay the difference so he charged for the 30 more but i wish he had done more.  I will go to see him after the 10 month mark.