~2200 Graft FUT with Carlos Wesley, NYC, 7/21/21 2nd Surgery 539 grafts, 7/14/22

[John1991]

I completely agree that it was absurd to think the first procedure would do the trick.  Although our hair thickness isn't the same and our recipient areas are bound to be different sizes, my procedure (2660 grafts) turned out quite well - and that's roughly the number you now have.  I'm not saying that means this follow up procedure will do the trick, but perhaps that could help you hold out some hope.

Edited October 7, 2022 by John1991

[washingtondc]

3 months.

These somehow look worse than last month, lolllll. If you open the ones from September and compare side by side, more empty space in these for sure.

Front:

Left side:

Right side:

There are a decent number of tiny stubs at this point, and a few longer new ones. Last time, all the new hairs hair had pushed out by around 6 months I think, because it didn't seem like there was much change after that. Not there yet obviously, but halfway. Months 4-6 is when things grew the most last time, so fingers still crossed as hard as humanly possible haha.

Edited October 15, 2022 by washingtondc

[Vann]

21 hours ago, washingtondc said:

so fingers still crossed as hard as humanly possible haha.

With time I bet you will forget this 'urging' feeling of hoping your hair grows in.

[washingtondc]

14 hours ago, Vann said:

With time I bet you will forget this 'urging' feeling of hoping your hair grows in.

Haha man I sure hope, it's been 15 months now.

Edited October 17, 2022 by washingtondc

[washingtondc]

Was able to get the camera to cooperate for a closer-up shot for once so figured I'd let people see.

You can see both the current discrepancy in density between the thinned out pre-existing hairline region and the new sparse lower hairline region as well as maybe just a couple new tiny hairs poking through (I really wish there were more, lol... thisisfinehouseonfirecomic.jpg.......)

Also before it probably gets mentioned yeah I'm fully aware that I have multiple doubles and even at least one thick triple on the absolute edge of the hairline; I don't know how that happens in a scenario where the clinic is referenced here as world-class, I don't know if I'm being unreasonable by wishing they weren't there (the impression I had gotten here at least was that good clinics didn't do this), I'm not sure if it's even worth trying to repair. Anyway there's a 3-month close-up.

Edited October 17, 2022 by washingtondc

[John1991]

A few doubles isn't a big deal or all that out of the norm.  The issue here is density.  Hopefully this gets the job done.  

[asterix0]

@washingtondc What did Dr. Wesley tell you that you needed in terms of grafts per cm^2 in order to achieve good visual density with your hair caliber?

[washingtondc]

4 months.

Center:

Left:

Right:

Maybe a tiny bit of improvement on the sides? The photo I took of the right last month was kind of wonky, so hard to tell.

I haven't really noticed much change/improvement in the front at all yet; if you compare this photo to my Month 1 photo, they're pretty much the same to my eyes. I can see tiny stubs/short hairs in the mix when I get really close, but they're pretty sparse and aren't making much of a visual difference. Months 4/5/6 are when things grew the most after my first one, so it would be really great if things started doing anything significant asap, lol.

@asterix0: He never mentioned the density in terms of grafts/square centimeter as far as I can recall. Before this second procedure I attempted to get an idea of how much density we'd be adding, and was told that the density wouldn't be added uniformly but in varying degrees to make it look the best. He said density would be increased by 50-70% "in areas". So I don't really know what number of grafts per cm I actually need for good visual density, to be honest.

 

 

[asterix0]

@washingtondc 4 months is still very early, patience for these next few months, don't look in the mirror everyday and just live your life, it's out of your control.

[washingtondc]

Lol yeah I'm avoiding looking in the mirror.

But it's hard to avoid simple math. This is where I ended up at a year last time:

And **far fewer** grafts were added this time. It just feels like it's easy to see what's going to happen again and I don't get why/how so few would be viewed as something that would fix things. I have no doubt things will be improved *some* obviously.

I don't know. It's just not a good feeling. I only let it into mind once a month for updates, but the deja vu just feels like it's on the horizon.

Edited November 18, 2022 by washingtondc

[washingtondc]

Current space between grafts (camera actually thickens the hair caliber wider than reality in this one; they're thinner):

[hairlossPA]

thanks for the update

[Rolo]

Well i appreciate the update and see i have the exact same problem, in addition in the week after the procedure i noticed it and pointed it out to the staff.   I dont know, if you dont improve with yr second procedure i might consider going to someone else to fix mine.  Because it really bothers me. If i part differently i notice it less but i shouldnt have to do that.  Pls keep us updated month by month if possible. 

[washingtondc]

Five months. Not very optimistic, despite the fact that this is my second procedure...

There was a small bit of improvement for months 4-5. For my first procedure, there wasn't really any significant change after the 6 month mark, so I think it's likely I really only have about a month of anything much changing left. The grafts that are short stubs are few and far between now, most of the grafts that were added seem to have a decent bit of length. There just aren't very many of them. The front improved minorly, but is still this transparent, and this is in just about ideal lighting:

The left side didn't change much. Still the better of the two sides, but not at a density that looks normal a lot of the time:

Right side still looks kind of ruler-esque:

The main issue at this point is that I still can't put the hair into *any* sort of arrangement that looks natural. No matter how I move it/which direction it goes/what I try to hide, there's always something relatively glaring that jumps out as looking strange. The best I can do is to try to cover the right side, but then the front looks quite weird, like this:

There's just not enough hair and I really think, somehow, once again, not enough grafts were added. I don't understand how 500 was viewed as something that would be sufficient. This is the current amount of empty space in the recipient zone:

This is how things look when lighting comes from overhead, which is most of the world:

People will say "this is only 5 months" but I literally just did this once already, and not much changed after 6 months. Pretty demoralized and would need a miracle at this point. I don't know what to do.

[Pbaird98]

Yeh the amount of extra grafts used is definitely more than questionable, on one hand it’s only 5 month (as you mentioned) but even If/when they all grow in it’s not enough to make much of a visual difference. 

[Vann]

2 hours ago, washingtondc said:

Five months. Not very optimistic, despite the fact that this is my second procedure...

There was a small bit of improvement for months 4-5. For my first procedure, there wasn't really any significant change after the 6 month mark, so I think it's likely I really only have about a month of anything much changing left. The grafts that are short stubs are few and far between now, most of the grafts that were added seem to have a decent bit of length. There just aren't very many of them. The front improved minorly, but is still this transparent, and this is in just about ideal lighting:

The left side didn't change much. Still the better of the two sides, but not at a density that looks normal a lot of the time:

Right side still looks kind of ruler-esque:

The main issue at this point is that I still can't put the hair into *any* sort of arrangement that looks natural. No matter how I move it/which direction it goes/what I try to hide, there's always something relatively glaring that jumps out as looking strange. The best I can do is to try to cover the right side, but then the front looks quite weird, like this:

There's just not enough hair and I really think, somehow, once again, not enough grafts were added. I don't understand how 500 was viewed as something that would be sufficient. This is the current amount of empty space in the recipient zone:

This is how things look when lighting comes from overhead, which is most of the world:

People will say "this is only 5 months" but I literally just did this once already, and not much changed after 6 months. Pretty demoralized and would need a miracle at this point. I don't know what to do.

It’s hard to say because your hair is long so it makes it look worse. But I definitely see what you mean and when you say the scalp is visible and you wanted to address this originally. 
 

I am not sure if you would want a temporary solution until your hair grows in but I saw Melvin post the sea salt spray thing in his latest update. Perhaps That may help you in the interim until your hair reaches more density in time (assuming all things are normal in growth)?

I do see what you mean by the amount of grafts. If it was solely just your hairline in the middle 500 would seem reasonable but the surface area definitely needed some more, especially, given that it was a second procedure touch up. I think your hair characteristics don’t help and should have been accounted for that prior to this. 

For now all I can say is to just stay strong, keep your head up and let time do its thing. Even if you address your concerns with your surgeon it would t change anything in this moment because you would want to maximize your outcome by waiting to see the potential of those added grafts. I think your surgeon may have been lazy in the touch up to work on other patients they had scheduled or perhaps they really believe 500 is the amount to get you there. 
 

but for now I think it’s best to distract yourself. Perhaps just hit up board room or other places in the metro area and get your mind off it. Stay strong man and thanks for the update.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Vann

[washingtondc]

1 hour ago, Vann said:

It’s hard to say because your hair is long so it makes it look worse. But I definitely see what you mean and when you say the scalp is visible and you wanted to address this originally. 
 

I am not sure if you would want a temporary solution until your hair grows in but I saw Melvin post the sea salt spray thing in his latest update. Perhaps That may help you in the interim until your hair reaches more density in time (assuming all things are normal in growth)?

I do see what you mean by the amount of grafts. If it was solely just your hairline in the middle 500 would seem reasonable but the surface area definitely needed some more, especially, given that it was a second procedure touch up. I think your hair characteristics don’t help and should have been accounted for that prior to this. 

For now all I can say is to just stay strong, keep your head up and let time do its thing. Even if you address your concerns with your surgeon it would t change anything in this moment because you would want to maximize your outcome by waiting to see the potential of those added grafts. I think your surgeon may have been lazy in the touch up to work on other patients they had scheduled or perhaps they really believe 500 is the amount to get you there. 
 

but for now I think it’s best to distract yourself. Perhaps just hit up board room or other places in the metro area and get your mind off it. Stay strong man and thanks for the update.

What's the sea salt spray? I personally don't really like the idea of using fibers or that sort of thing to mask stuff, it feels slightly dishonest/a misrepresentation to anyone who doesn't know the truth to me (that's just my own personal opinion and probably stupid, no shade to anyone who uses them). 

The idea of paying thousands and thousands of dollars to rectify things was kind of ideally to not need to be buying and using products for the rest of my life to hide reality... haha. I never needed them before the procedure.

[Vann]

37 minutes ago, washingtondc said:

What's the sea salt spray? I personally don't really like the idea of using fibers or that sort of thing to mask stuff, it feels slightly dishonest/a misrepresentation to anyone who doesn't know the truth to me (that's just my own personal opinion and probably stupid, no shade to anyone who uses them). 

The idea of paying thousands and thousands of dollars to rectify things was kind of ideally to not need to be buying and using products for the rest of my life to hide reality... haha. I never needed them before the procedure.

Its not really that deep. I mean you could say the same for a hair transplant, its dishonest to others while some use it solely to conceal small areas they do not want to represent. Same with makeup. 

Nonetheless, I am not really trying to push that concept. I think if you want to use the spray or fibers they could help mitigate some form of scalp reveal. To each their own. But I use fibers for the temporary when i go into the office. Doesnt mean im hiding anything, I know my hair will recover from shockloss but for now I want to appear like nothing out of the ordinary. 

[Tiger2050]

You’ll see some improvement in the next few months but doubt it’s gonna be enough to not look see through. I would start consulting with other surgeons at this point, strongly consider not limiting yourself by location or no-shave otherwise you might end up with another poor result. Mwamba, Nadimi/Konior, Hasson/Wong, Bisanga, Cooley, Gabel, Pinto, Feriduni are some names to consider, much higher chance of success with any of these surgeons. Not sure exactly how much Wesley charges but I suspect he’s more expensive than all of the names I suggested except Konior.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Tiger2050

[ht4me]

This thread is making me doubt considering Wesley. Both surgeries have been obvious carelessness. It appeared the initial scar mess up was like an "oopsy" kind of mistake when that should not have happened. Along with the female HT who commented on this thread, idk. I wonder what's going on with him because it seems like he's done really good work in the past but his density has been abysmal.

At this point I would go with someone who is very effective at donor management. That would be Nadimi/Konior. Nadimi does no-shave up to 1500 grafts. If you're getting it only in the front, I doubt that would be a problem at all. You should submit a form on their site and explain your situation in detail.

[washingtondc]

19 hours ago, Tiger2050 said:

You’ll see some improvement in the next few months but doubt it’s gonna be enough to not look see through. I would start consulting with other surgeons at this point, strongly consider not limiting yourself by location or no-shave otherwise you might end up with another poor result. Mwamba, Nadimi/Konior, Hasson/Wong, Bisanga, Cooley, Gabel, Pinto, Feriduni are some names to consider, much higher chance of success with any of these surgeons. Not sure exactly how much Wesley charges but I suspect he’s more expensive than all of the names I suggested except Konior.

 

2 hours ago, ht4me said:

This thread is making me doubt considering Wesley. Both surgeries have been obvious carelessness. It appeared the initial scar mess up was like an "oopsy" kind of mistake when that should not have happened. Along with the female HT who commented on this thread, idk. I wonder what's going on with him because it seems like he's done really good work in the past but his density has been abysmal.

At this point I would go with someone who is very effective at donor management. That would be Nadimi/Konior. Nadimi does no-shave up to 1500 grafts. If you're getting it only in the front, I doubt that would be a problem at all. You should submit a form on their site and explain your situation in detail.

I don't have the money to do this again. I don't have the time to wait another 18 months to get to where I thought I was going to be 5 months ago. I don't have the space on the back of my head to shave more spots without having to cut 4 years' worth of hair growth.

This is so soul-crushing. I did a lot of research and thought I was setting myself up for a great result. I cannot believe things are where they are after not one, but two procedures. How can this have happened

[ht4me]

3 minutes ago, washingtondc said:

 

I don't have the money to do this again. I don't have the time to wait another 18 months to get to where I thought I was going to be 5 months ago. I don't have the space on the back of my head to shave more spots without having to cut 4 years' worth of hair growth.

This is so soul-crushing. I did a lot of research and thought I was setting myself up for a great result. I cannot believe things are where they are after not one, but two procedures. How can this have happened

I think if you contact Konior/Nadimi and get on their waitlist it can be sooner if you're ready to go at a moments notice. Of course there are other great options, I just know they are top tier with donor management. There are also others like Nader and Pekiner for FUE.

I don't blame you for being distraught. A reputable surgeon failed you not once but twice. Thanks for posting your experience because it may help others educate themselves and give them second thoughts about going with Wesley.

But know that there are many who have been in your shoes that eventually got fixed. I don't blame you though, I'd be antsy af too.

[washingtondc]

15 minutes ago, ht4me said:

I think if you contact Konior/Nadimi and get on their waitlist it can be sooner if you're ready to go at a moments notice. Of course there are other great options, I just know they are top tier with donor management. There are also others like Nader and Pekiner for FUE.

I don't blame you for being distraught. A reputable surgeon failed you not once but twice. Thanks for posting your experience because it may help others educate themselves and give them second thoughts about going with Wesley.

But know that there are many who have been in your shoes that eventually got fixed. I don't blame you though, I'd be antsy af too.

Even if I had the money, don't people always insist you wait a full year to not interfere with the current results?

[ht4me]

20 minutes ago, washingtondc said:

Even if I had the money, don't people always insist you wait a full year to not interfere with the current results?

Most surgeons I have asked have said 8 months (including Konior/Nadimi) before consulting after your previous surgery, so you could start scheduling now. I think your situation counts as a special case tbh. You can obviously see that even if it "succeeds" it's still a botched job, so maybe some surgeons will put you on the fast track for scheduling so that you get your next surgery at a 1 year mark if they have slots available or you can get on a waitlist now.

You need to express to them how dire your situation is to them.

[Vann]

I think even if you had the money your best bet would be to wait. You could have some miniaturized hairs that haven’t completely grown out in its density that you could damage. 
 

better to wait a bit, especially since it’s a life long procedure.

I think OP is making the right choices but is being unmet by his surgeon. Adding another surgeon won’t fix what’s already done and needs to happen.