~2200 Graft FUT with Carlos Wesley, NYC, 7/21/21 2nd Surgery 539 grafts, 7/14/22

[BDK081522]

It's hard to tell from your photos how far back those 2200 grafts were implanted due to the angles and long hair. I am quite familiar with the anxiety and over scrutinization that comes with a transplant. We can be our own worst enemies when we're seeing something different in the mirror. I will mention that you truly can't assess the outcome until at least 10-12 months. However, it does seem that your density looks slightly lower than would be expected from a top clinic such as Wesley. From my own personal experiences and from viewing thousands of cases throughout the years, I do think your hairline will be less dense than you desire. Your fine hair requires more grafts than someone with thicker caliber hair in order to give the same coverage value. Don't get discouraged so early in the process. Let it play out and remember you can always add density if need be later on down the line. Definitely won't be a bad result though. Just maybe not up to your standards. 

[RandoBrando517]

Did your consultation fee apply to your surgery? 

[washingtondc]

2 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Did your consultation fee apply to your surgery? 

I scheduled my surgery and put a deposit down before I scheduled my consultation, so I'm not sure I actually paid a consultation fee.

[washingtondc]

On 7/30/2021 at 8:24 PM, BDK081522 said:

It's hard to tell from your photos how far back those 2200 grafts were implanted due to the angles and long hair. I am quite familiar with the anxiety and over scrutinization that comes with a transplant. We can be our own worst enemies when we're seeing something different in the mirror. I will mention that you truly can't assess the outcome until at least 10-12 months. However, it does seem that your density looks slightly lower than would be expected from a top clinic such as Wesley. From my own personal experiences and from viewing thousands of cases throughout the years, I do think your hairline will be less dense than you desire. Your fine hair requires more grafts than someone with thicker caliber hair in order to give the same coverage value. Don't get discouraged so early in the process. Let it play out and remember you can always add density if need be later on down the line. Definitely won't be a bad result though. Just maybe not up to your standards. 

Edit: The below is an overreaction to BDK081522's assessment and likely a great example of why you shouldn't scrutinize early on. I suffer from generalized anxiety and let it get the better of me. I've spoken with Dr. Wesley and have full faith that this will turn out great. My apologies for letting myself get out of hand; I was wrong.

 dammit. I'm crushed.

How the hell did this happen? How can a top surgeon not make the hairline as dense as it needs to be? How can he do it so well literally 5 days later (hairbackpls1) and do this for me??

I don't have the money to do another procedure anytime soon. I also can't just drop off the map again like I have for this one to recover. I can't do another FUT, my scalp laxity was already too tight for this one. I can't shave my head to do an FUE, and even if I wanted to, I don't know how much donor hair I have left; is it really even wise to take more donor hair to fix a restored hairline that wasn't done right when I may need donor hair for farther back down the line??

This has already been the worst year of my life. I was trying to do this to help feel better about myself, I did literally everything I could to research and make this the best experience possible. When my donor area ran into a problem I figured "Okay, that's life" and took it in stride. But now my hairline is going to be subpar too??

Just so crushed. I hate everything right now.

Edit again in case you missed the first one: Disregard this overreaction; it's wrong.

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc
Removed curse word

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, washingtondc said:

Fucking dammit. I'm crushed.

How the hell did this happen? How can a top surgeon not know that the hairline needs to be, if not the densest part, at least as dense as what's behind it? How can he do it so well literally 5 days later and do this for me??

I don't have the money to do another procedure anytime soon. I also can't just drop off the map again like I have for this one to recover. I can't do another FUT, my scalp laxity was already too tight for this one. I can't shave my head to do an FUE, and even if I wanted to, I don't know how much donor hair I have left; is it really even wise to take more donor hair to fix a restored hairline that wasn't done right when I may need donor hair for farther back down the line??

This has already been the worst year of my life. I was trying to do this to help feel better about myself, I did literally everything I could to research and make this the best experience possible. When my donor area ran into a problem I figured "Okay, that's life" and took it in stride. But now my hairline is going to be subpar too??

Just so crushed. I hate everything right now.

There’s absolutely no reason you should feel crushed before you’ve even started to grow. Try and take a step back, try not to obsess, easier said than done I know. There’s absolutely no way of knowing if you will or will not be satisfied until the hair starts to grow. 

I have seen thousands of cases, been on this forum for almost a decade, and I can say with 100% certainty- there’s no way of knowing at this stage. Anything at this point is pure speculation. Do not take things as facts at this stage.  

[washingtondc]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

There’s absolutely no reason you should feel crushed before you’ve even started to grow. Try and take a step back, try not to obsess, easier said than done I know. There’s absolutely no way of knowing if you will or will not be satisfied until the hair starts to grow. 

I have seen thousands of cases, been on this forum for almost a decade, and I can say with 100% certainty- there’s no way of knowing at this stage. Anything at this point is pure speculation. Do not take things as facts at this stage.  

Have you seen hairlines with this density/fine caliber of hair that have looked alright, especially outside, out of curiosity?

[washingtondc]

On 7/30/2021 at 8:24 PM, BDK081522 said:

It's hard to tell from your photos how far back those 2200 grafts were implanted due to the angles and long hair. I am quite familiar with the anxiety and over scrutinization that comes with a transplant. We can be our own worst enemies when we're seeing something different in the mirror. I will mention that you truly can't assess the outcome until at least 10-12 months. However, it does seem that your density looks slightly lower than would be expected from a top clinic such as Wesley. From my own personal experiences and from viewing thousands of cases throughout the years, I do think your hairline will be less dense than you desire. Your fine hair requires more grafts than someone with thicker caliber hair in order to give the same coverage value. Don't get discouraged so early in the process. Let it play out and remember you can always add density if need be later on down the line. Definitely won't be a bad result though. Just maybe not up to your standards. 

I found another photo I took a day previous to the first one I posted (this one is 5 days post-op) where you can see maybe a little more clearly. 

Do people still think the density may be lacking some based on this one as well?

[BDK081522]

We can only speculate because only your surgeon truly knows where each graft was placed and with what in pattern the multi-grafts were distributed. From this 5 day post op picture it seems you have more space in between grafts then a high density restoration would need, especially if your hair is fine as you've mentioned. However, this doesn't mean your surgeon neglected you. He very well may have placed grafts closer together but we just aren't able to see the corresponding hair attached to the graft. I know you are probably having anxiety over this but please just try and relax and just give it time. You went to your surgeon because you did the research and put your faith in him. It really is a waiting game when it comes to hair restoration and you honestly have to give it 10-12 months to see how yours will mature. 

[pre-screened]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:17 PM, washingtondc said:

 dammit. I'm crushed.

How the hell did this happen? How can a top surgeon not know that the hairline needs to be, if not the densest part, at least as dense as what's behind it? How can he do it so well literally 5 days later and do this for me??

I don't have the money to do another procedure anytime soon. I also can't just drop off the map again like I have for this one to recover. I can't do another FUT, my scalp laxity was already too tight for this one. I can't shave my head to do an FUE, and even if I wanted to, I don't know how much donor hair I have left; is it really even wise to take more donor hair to fix a restored hairline that wasn't done right when I may need donor hair for farther back down the line??

This has already been the worst year of my life. I was trying to do this to help feel better about myself, I did literally everything I could to research and make this the best experience possible. When my donor area ran into a problem I figured "Okay, that's life" and took it in stride. But now my hairline is going to be subpar too??

Just so crushed. I hate everything right now.

Hi @washingtondc

I’m sorry your having a tough time. I really really suggest you reach out to Dr.Wesley and share your concerns…..his post operative photos in conjunction with his expert opinion on what approach he took and why is the correct thing for you to do. 

Asking the internet for its opinion……when you’ve handed over $k’s a couple of weeks to an expert who has a duty of care to you…..…..is kind of crazy. Call Dr.Wesley and setup a time to talk to him over Zoom….ask for intra-operative and post-operative photos & share your concerns.

[washingtondc]

2 hours ago, pre-screened said:

Hi @washingtondc

I’m sorry your having a tough time. I really really suggest you reach out to Dr.Wesley and share your concerns…..his post operative photos in conjunction with his expert opinion on what approach he took and why is the correct thing for you to do. 

Asking the internet for its opinion……when you’ve handed over $k’s a couple of weeks to an expert who has a duty of care to you…..…..is kind of crazy. Call Dr.Wesley and setup a time to talk to him over Zoom….ask for intra-operative and post-operative photos & share your concerns.

 

22 hours ago, BDK081522 said:

We can only speculate because only your surgeon truly knows where each graft was placed and with what in pattern the multi-grafts were distributed. From this 5 day post op picture it seems you have more space in between grafts then a high density restoration would need, especially if your hair is fine as you've mentioned. However, this doesn't mean your surgeon neglected you. He very well may have placed grafts closer together but we just aren't able to see the corresponding hair attached to the graft. I know you are probably having anxiety over this but please just try and relax and just give it time. You went to your surgeon because you did the research and put your faith in him. It really is a waiting game when it comes to hair restoration and you honestly have to give it 10-12 months to see how yours will mature. 

I actually saw him today to have the normal portion of my sutures removed and expressed my concerns.

He said he has full confidence and no doubt that the result will look normal and full. I've been trying to obtain pictures of intra/post-op for over a week now since the procedure, as well as graft count breakdown, but haven't gotten them yet. I'll try again today.

Looking at the graft placement, I just don't see how it's physically possible that this winds up looking full like I intended; it would literally seem like magic if that front hairline portion winds up looking thick/full. All I can do at this point is just trust him and the process, but it's exceedingly difficult to ignore what's in front of my own eyes. Oh well; there is nothing I'd love more than to be wrong.

I have to go somewhere to get the sutures that are in the gap/wound portion removed next week sometime because that's still healing. I don't have to travel back to the clinic to do that; they said most places in my vicinity should be able to do it. Got a prescription for oral minox and will be switching over to that today, in combination with the fin that i've already been on.

I wish I could be more optimistic. It would be so nice to have my pictures look very dense and feel like it's going to look great, and have the general consensus here be that as well. I would feel excited during the next year if that were the case; now I'm going to have to do my best to never think about it at all. It's going to be a long year.

[washingtondc]

Does anyone who's been here longer know of some examples where the density/hair caliber looks similar to mine and it ended up looking good?

I could really use some positivity/reassurance right now.

[Melvin- Admin]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:56 AM, washingtondc said:

I found another photo I took a day previous to the first one I posted (this one is 5 days post-op) where you can see maybe a little more clearly. 

Do people still think the density may be lacking some based on this one as well?

I can tell there’s some shedding already in this picture. Shedding can occur as early as 5 days. It’s virtually impossible to say for certain. 

Here are the facts, your hairline was lowered maybe two centimeters. You’ve had 2,200 grafts transplanted. Now, even if you’re on the lower spectrum of donor density you’re looking at around 1.5-1.8 hairs per graft. That’s 3,300-3900 hairs. 

I will say this, I would be shocked if that much hair didn’t make a significant impact in such a small area. That said, absolutely no one can guarantee your happiness. Will you be satisfied? I don’t know, no one does, but I’m confident it will be a significant difference for a small area. If you can ask Dr. Wesley for the numbers you can figure out the number of hairs. 

[washingtondc]

23 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I can tell there’s some shedding already in this picture. Shedding can occur as early as 5 days. It’s virtually impossible to say for certain. 

Here are the facts, your hairline was lowered maybe two centimeters. You’ve had 2,200 grafts transplanted. Now, even if you’re on the lower spectrum of donor density you’re looking at around 1.5-1.8 hairs per graft. That’s 3,300-3900 hairs. 

I will say this, I would be shocked if that much hair didn’t make a significant impact in such a small area. That said, absolutely no one can guarantee your happiness. Will you be satisfied? I don’t know, no one does, but I’m confident it will be a significant difference for a small area. If you can ask Dr. Wesley for the numbers you can figure out the number of hairs. 

Thanks. The thing is, one of Wesley's big things is he likes to go into areas of future loss so that the transplant still looks natural if more hair is lost.

So he went back some too in decreasing density, and also filled in my part line that had thinned some. Does that mess up your theory?

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, washingtondc said:

Thanks. The thing is, one of Wesley's big things is he likes to go into areas of future loss so that the transplant still looks natural if more hair is lost.

So he went back some too in decreasing density, and also filled in my part line that had thinned some. Does that mess up your theory?

No not at all. Quite common to feather in grafts, otherwise you could have a visible gap in the future.  Honestly, I think 2,200 grafts is more than enough. I had 2,120 and I had way more hair loss and lowered my hairline more. Try and take a break from then forum and looking at the mirror. Constantly obsessing is only going to make things worse and stress you out. Put on a hat and forget about it for the next few months.

[washingtondc]

Update with photos since I'm just about two weeks post-op now.

Edit: The below is once again wrong and an overreaction. I have complete faith that this is going to be great. Leaving it as a testament to how easy it is to overanalyze too early especially when you have anxiety. I also realize slightly later in the thread that shedding had in fact started in these photos.

It's becoming increasingly likely to me that this transplant is a complete waste and an exercise in futility. I had the scabs washed off yesterday so things are clearly visible.

Look at how sparse that is. I cannot locate a single graft that's missing when I compare to earlier pictures in this thread; I can't find one that's fallen out.

Does anyone disagree? Please, please say so if you do. This looks totally abysmal to me. How can this have happened???? I did so much research and put in so much work.

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc

[washingtondc]

Just now received some photos.

Here is the donor strip, look all standard?

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, washingtondc said:

Update with photos since I'm just about two weeks post-op now.

It's becoming increasingly likely to me that this transplant is a complete waste and an exercise in futility. I had the scabs washed off yesterday so things are clearly visible.

Look at how sparse that is. I cannot locate a single graft that's missing when I compare to earlier pictures in this thread; I can't find one that's fallen out.

Does anyone disagree? Please, please say so if you do. This looks totally abysmal to me. How can this have happened???? I did so much research and put in so much work.

Okay this is starting to get ridiculous. You’re literally posting a picture after 95% if the grafts have shed. Please pm me your name and date of surgery. I will reach out to Dr. Wesley. 

[washingtondc]

15 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Okay this is starting to get ridiculous. You’re literally posting a picture after 95% if the grafts have shed. Please pm me your name and date of surgery. I will reach out to Dr. Wesley. 

I will, thank you, I emailed him too.

But they haven't. This photo is one I didn't realize I had, 26 hours post-op. It looks denser at first glance because the skin is darkened from scabs, but if you zoom in, I see no significant difference in the grafts present. Or nowhere near 95%, at least.

Edited August 3, 2021 by washingtondc

[washingtondc]

Am I crazy? I see hardly any difference in the actual hairs present. First picture 26 hours post-op, second picture 2 weeks. Anyone have any thoughts?

[RandoBrando517]

Bro I think you’re losing it man. None of what your posting makes sense

[BDK081522]

Your immediate post op picture definitely looks like it has more density then your 2 week. Shedding is very unpredictable when it comes to hair restoration surgery. Most shed around 3-4 weeks out, some shed immediately, and others don't shed at all. It's all over the board so please try and just let your body heal. There's nothing you can do right now that will change what has been done. Your body needs optimal healing conditions and stressing about something that is out of your control is not ideal. Hair restoration is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by BDK081522

[washingtondc]

3 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Bro I think you’re losing it man. None of what your posting makes sense

Lol, alright, thanks, that's reassuring I guess. It does to me, but maybe I'm showing an error in judgement.

3 hours ago, BDK081522 said:

Your immediate post op picture definitely looks like it has more density then your 2 week. Shedding is very unpredictable when it comes to hair restoration surgery. Most shed around 3-4 weeks out, some shed immediately, and others don't shed at all. It's all over the board so please try and just let your body heal. There's nothing you can do right now that will change what has been done. Your body needs optimal healing conditions and stressing about something that is out of your control is not ideal. Hair restoration is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Thanks. The immediate post op looks more dense to me at first glace, but I think it's mainly the scabs creating more darkness resulting in an illusion of graft density. When I find a specific hair in the post op picture, the vast majority of the time I can find the same hair present in the 2-week picture. There are a couple of spots I can tell a hair or two have shed, but the shedding seems minimal to me in that picture.

At this point I definitely recognize that things are starting to shed and so it will be futile to make any assessments until a year down the road. It just felt like, looking at the foundation of what things will be growing from, the area will be even more sparse than my hairline had been pre-op, which obviously would be a step backwards in the hairline appearance and would be pretty devastating, just psychologically and also for the amount of money I paid.

I'm sorry for the negativity; 2021 has been an incredibly hard year for me and maybe I'm just in a mindset where I now expect things to go badly for me. Dr. Wesley initially planned to harvest 24-2600 grafts for my procedure, so when he was only able to get 2200, the donor area was unable to be properly sutured shut and I learned I'll need a second procedure to graft into the scarring, the hairline density looked low to me and others on this site agreed, etc., it just feels like "Here we go again; nothing can go right."

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc

[washingtondc]

I did receive a few photos after a couple weeks from the clinic yesterday; these are probably an hour or two post-op. I also got the graft numbers:

2236 total grafts

563 singles

1363 doubles

310 triples

By my math that's 4219 total hairs.

You guys are gonna hate me for this, but... it doesn't look like there are many/any grafts in this part of my head?

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc

[RandoBrando517]

Not sure if trolling at this point 

[washingtondc]

1 hour ago, washingtondc said:

You guys are gonna hate me for this, but... it doesn't look like there are many/any grafts in this part of my head?

Actually on further inspection I don't really see this missing patch in the 24 hour post op photo, which is kind of strange to me, but I'll gladly take it. Guess that just reinforces that scrutinizing photos is unreliable, time to take a step back from that.

If these graft/hair numbers and photos from the clinic look up to par to be a good result it would probably help to hear that; aside from that though I'm going to chill out on all the investigation/comparison.

Edited August 4, 2021 by washingtondc