Topical Finasteride and Dutasteride The Future Gold Standard for Hair Loss - Dr. Wong

[Melvin- Admin]

 

[bald-and-bearded]

Can't wait to see a peer reviewed paper from Hasson and Wong which proves that systemic absorption is low but scalp DHT levels reduce significantly. The research today is all over the place, some proving and some disproving the above.

I also hope all famous clinics (BHR, Eugenix, Dr U, Konior) try to develop their own formulation like this so that we can see the maximum amount of data and have lots of options. Maybe this will become the endgame of AGA, something that has been consistently promised to arrive "in 5 years"? 😁

@Melvin- Moderatorhow do you tell if a formulation works through liposomes or not. Would there some ingredient written on the box that would imply this?

 

[Future Hair Doc]

1 hour ago, bald-and-bearded said:

Can't wait to see a peer reviewed paper from Hasson and Wong which proves that systemic absorption is low but scalp DHT levels reduce significantly. The research today is all over the place, some proving and some disproving the above.

I also hope all famous clinics (BHR, Eugenix, Dr U, Konior) try to develop their own formulation like this so that we can see the maximum amount of data and have lots of options. Maybe this will become the endgame of AGA, something that has been consistently promised to arrive "in 5 years"? 😁

@Melvin- Moderatorhow do you tell if a formulation works through liposomes or not. Would there some ingredient written on the box that would imply this?

 

Good question...liposomes have a lipid bilayer and it's the lipid that is the effective delivery mechanism across the scalp. 

[SLA]

Excellent video!

[gradina22]

Hello Melvin and thanks a bunch for this video

As I guy who is in his day 21 post op I Just want to repeat doctor Wongs words about topical dutasteride;

Nothing too much to say, but the result are very encouraging. 

1 per week application

Little side efects

Very small apsorption

 

Last year prior to Ht I went to do a trycho test, or genetic test for alopecia. 

I was prescribed with topical dutasteride 0.25%with some other stuff in the solution, like Tretinoin. 

 

But they told me to do this every night! 

I would really appreciete if you can share your thoughts on this. 

Also, dr Wong didnt mention percentage of topical dutasteride he was talking about and how much ml does one use once per week. 

 

 

Also you said you will grab their solution. By that did you mean both fin and duta? 

Or just one of these

 

I also suffered sides from oral fin. 

This topic is sure hot for me... Will be watching for New inputs

[Melvin- Admin]

5 hours ago, bald-and-bearded said:

Can't wait to see a peer reviewed paper from Hasson and Wong which proves that systemic absorption is low but scalp DHT levels reduce significantly. The research today is all over the place, some proving and some disproving the above.

I also hope all famous clinics (BHR, Eugenix, Dr U, Konior) try to develop their own formulation like this so that we can see the maximum amount of data and have lots of options. Maybe this will become the endgame of AGA, something that has been consistently promised to arrive "in 5 years"? 😁

@Melvin- Moderatorhow do you tell if a formulation works through liposomes or not. Would there some ingredient written on the box that would imply this?

 

I highly doubt it will be a peer-reviewed paper. There’s really no need for that either, although it would be nice if a pharmaceutical company could develop it and get it FDA approved, then there would be peer-reviewed papers.

[bald-and-bearded]

3 hours ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Good question...liposomes have a lipid bilayer and it's the lipid that is the effective delivery mechanism across the scalp. 

how do we tell if that's the mechanism from seeing a product? should we ask the manufacturer?

7 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I highly doubt it will be a peer-reviewed paper. There’s really no need for that either, although it would be nice if a pharmaceutical company could develop it and get it FDA approved, then there would be peer-reviewed papers.

why do you say there is no need for that though? trust in H&W?

[Melvin- Admin]

12 minutes ago, bald-and-bearded said:

how do we tell if that's the mechanism from seeing a product? should we ask the manufacturer?

why do you say there is no need for that though? trust in H&W?

You can purchase the topical and test your own blood serum DHT before and after. It’s not difficult at all to do. Once I get my hands on it that’s what I will do and post it on YouTube. There’s no need for peer-reviews to test that.

[JDEE0]

Melvin is right, you could easily test for yourself by just getting bloods done prior to using the topical Dut and then comparing to baseline down the road (ideally on multiple occasions over the course of many months to ensure that it isn't slowly accumulating and lowering DHT/affecting other hormones slowly over time until it reaches the same inhibition as ingesting orally would). I'd say if after 6 months or a year (just as a random marker) your DHT levels have stayed consistent at a small reduction in serum DHT compared to baseline, well you know that it indeed doesn't go systemic to any large degree.

I do agree with @bald-and-bearded though, it is really necessary for some sort of actual clinical data/studies on its efficacy to be released to put the issue to rest and solidify the idea that there is actually a good alternative to oral finasteride/dutasteride for those who can't or don't want to take it. The main question is does it actually work?

Without actual data from a properly controlled study, who knows. Yes, you can quite easily find out if it goes systemic to any large degree for yourself with blood tests, but we need studies to know if that's a good or a bad thing. Good because, if it actually does work and doesn't go systemic, that's great. Bad because, maybe studies will show it's not actually effective at stopping hair-loss due to the fact it doesn't go systemic. I'm not sure. Either way, up until this happens it's all anecdotal evidence, and there is no proof to state one way or the other yet.

I do happen to think its promising though; a number of great clinics run by great doctors have been vouching for it for a while now and say that it works on their patients (H&W, Bisanga etc) so that is a good sign. As well as number of users from online forums, but really I would need to see some clinical data to know one way or another. 

If Dr. Wong says that there are some companies starting to do trials, then that's good news. Hopefully we will have some solid answers in the next few years.

[bald-and-bearded]

Maybe in the next instagram live, we could ask Hasson if he is willing to write a public prescription to the community to do our own tests (with all the details so that if you gave it to a lab guy, he would do it right). I had thought testing DHT and testosterone is simple but the more I read, the more it feels like it can have high variance and margin of error. It's better if a doctor guides us.

And if not peer reviewed, some publication would be good. Not everyone in the community can manage to get these tests done properly. As @JDEE0 said in another thread, even in the UK it's not straightforward.

Edited July 8, 2021 by bald-and-bearded

[HairRun]

Dr Shapiro is also encouraging of topical finasteride, has experienced good results from his patients. 

I was surprised to hear that topical dut has less side effects than fin. I thought dut has more side effects since it effects both enzymes? If dut has less, why is fin more popular?

Right now topical fin seems pricy, from 40-60$/month. Shipping costs can also add up if you're not from the same state as the compounding pharmacy. I'm trying to see if I can shop around. Can you just ask any compounding pharmacy to make topical liposomal finasteride? Or is there something special about the formulations from Wong and the others? 

I'm also looking at topical fin that also has min in it. If I apply min around the same time as fin, I get side effects. I think there's something in the min formulation that is making the fin go systemic. So for me topical fin is interfering with how often I can use topical min. 

[lovinitl9]

where can you purchase topical liposomal dutasteride

 

[Oceanperson]

I see the product on minoxidilmax website after searching reddit. Is this a good place to order or are there other websites recommended?

[dotdashdashdash]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:26 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

This is incredible as always. Thank you!

Two questions if you have a minute:

1. Do you think it makes sense to take both oral and topical finasteride (if one can tolerate both without sides)?

2. This may be a dumb question but...is it possible to buy from H&W if you live in the US? (I couldn't find on their website so maybe I am just misunderstanding.) I've googled a bunch for topical finasteride but not sure how to tell what's reputable.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, dotdashdashdash said:

This is incredible as always. Thank you!

Two questions if you have a minute:

1. Do you think it makes sense to take both oral and topical finasteride (if one can tolerate both without sides)?

2. This may be a dumb question but...is it possible to buy from H&W if you live in the US? (I couldn't find on their website so maybe I am just misunderstanding.) I've googled a bunch for topical finasteride but not sure how to tell what's reputable.

 

It makes sense to take oral fin and use the topical dut 1x per week. Unfortunately, they can’t ship to the US 😔 but hopefully that changes soon.