10 Month Results

[lost my swagger]

Swagger,

 

So I guess you won't be satisfied until members of this community string Dr. Alexander up by his ears, pelt him with stones, and crucify him?

 

It's posts like yours that often pin patients and quality physicians on opposing sides battling each other rather than collaborating to tackle the hair loss problem we're all concerned about.

 

Regardless of the mob mentality that you want to create at times,

 

oh please, what a silly statment...i dont want to create a mob mentality trust me...but what i see is this forum becoming deviod of ANY true healthy skepticisim... in fact, if you ask me anytime ANYONE tries to bring any to the table the are shot down, while posters prefer to come to the defense of the DR simply because that dr has posted good results in the past..therefor even though THE PATIENT AT HAND got screwed we forgive and we DEF FORGET....fast..

 

really id just hate to see this place become more about the dr than about the PATIENTS AND THEIR TRUE STORIES....

 

I BELIEVE THE COLLECTIVE ONESIDEDNESS OF THE POSTERS HERE CREATE AN ENVORNMENT WHERE THOSE WHO WENT TO THE "TOP" CLINICS AND RECIEVED A LUKE WARM OR POOR RESULT DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE SHARING...dont believe me??? search.. pull up one of fellers unhappy patients hes had recently for example and see how he is met with both support AND hostility, then everyone decides the dr at hand is in the right, while the unhappy patient is s*** out of luck i guess. and we dont get to hear the details of IF/how it was even resolved for said patient

 

COLLECTIVLY WE TREAT OUR UNHAPPY ARMANI PATIENTS DIFFERENTLY THAN WE DO OUR UNHAPPY FELLER PATIENTS FOR EXAMPLE..CRAZY HOW YOU ALL DONT SEEM TO SEE THIS

 

now adays the shills, and the snake oil salesmen are EASILY pointed out ESPECIALLY on this site

 

 

ill tell you who i think the "good" guys are Bill

 

HONEST posters who come and share their honest experience GOOD OR BAD...it would be nice if BOTH experiences were met with the same amount of support by the posters here.. we only support our unhappy armani patients cause its ACCEPTABLE to cricize him right? we all have decided that right?

 

 

like i said in my last post, dr Alexander did NOTHING except call all those who were hash with him "misinformed" then post a couple BLURRY best case sinerio pics, and BAM! presto!

 

case closed,name cleared and reputation saved... still i wonder how dr A would feel had HE personally gotten a result like this from dr feller....

 

 

im not a leader looking to start a revolt Bill no matter what you say or what you think... but just like most areas in life you cant grow and you cant learn if you dont approach things ASKING QUESTIONS.... or you can just accept everything you hear as if it were truth... i would not recommend that approach in life as you WILL be manipulated. just as i feel so many are in the hairloss world and on this site are manipulated.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Swagger,

 

You obviously don't understand the difference between healthy skepticism and blatant negativity.

 

If you had questions or concerns about Dr. Alexander's post, you could have respectfully asked questions and/or challenged any of the particulars you disagreed with. Instead, you cried out to members to string up and pelt stones at Dr. Alexander because his explanation was unsatisfactory to you. This is evidenced by your statement:

 

"this is a coalition dr right?? right. i swear the bulk of you let these guys off the hook sooo easy it actually makes me sad... yet you all have no problem touting the coalition(as a whole) as the best of the best... do you all accept THIS result from the best of the best??"

 

If that's not evidence of a mob mentality, then I don't know what is. While the first approach would have been constructive, the latter was blatantly negative.

 

As a member of this community for some time, you should already know that Dr. Alexander has a stellar reputation that has been slowly earned over a period of time and holds high standards for performing the very best work. Thus, unless proven otherwise, why shouldn't we take him at his word?

 

Too often some members throw stones at doctors without knowing the full story while the uneducated make false statements out of ignorance. These are the statements that need to be challenged. Knowledgeable members of this community do a great job correcting misinformation while remembering to call a spade a spade when appropriate.

 

Frankly, you know just enough about hair transplant surgery to be dangerous. A statement like "TTP is 10 months in... say whatever you want, but the bottom line is that IS PLENTY of time to evaluate a HT result" while true for many, isn't true for everyone. Though nobody can guarantee that TTP's results will grow in full, it's very possible especially given what Dr. Alexander shared, that he's just a slow grower and will eventually acquire an optimnal result - just more more slowly than most others. You on the other hand, make very general statements and feel very strongly that they apply to everyone. Static thinking is very dangerous in a world of dynamic variables.

 

I'm not saying that this patient doesn't have reason or cause to be concerned. However, until proven otherwise, I have faith that in the event this patient's results are less than optimal upon maturation, that Dr. Alexander will take care of him. All doctors inevitably have cases of less than optimal growth. In addition to providing state of the art procedures, it's how these situations are handled that separate the elite from the sub-par.

 

You seem to put all physicians (reputable and not) in the same category and are basically calling them liars. At the same time, you make the assumption that all patient posters sharing their experiences are 100% honest. Over the years I've seen many patients and physicians who were honest and others in both camps who turned out to be agenda driven liars. In this case, I do not believe the patient nor Dr. Alexander is lying.

 

Healthy skepticism has never been ridiculed or "shot down" as you want to put it. Our community will always be filled with dissenting opinions. My usual approach is to let the cards fall where they lie while offering my input when and where I think it's appropriate. Only when a poster is in violation of our terms of service do I remove a post or poster.

 

It seems like you've lost faith in this community and the kind of transparency we offer and provide to our members and guests. Frankly, I have no idea why since genuine and respectful opinions (agreeable to mine and/or the majority or not) continually are welcomed, respected, and unedited - including yours. However, you are hovering the line of breaching our terms of service that clearly state:

 

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this software service to post any material which is of a commercial or promotional nature, knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

 

Share your opinions and ask your questions, but leave your desire to wrongfully attack at the door before posting or you will no longer be welcome to contribute to this community.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[hrvoje14]

Bill, that's quite harsh... i don't see a problem with lost my swagger expressing his opinion... nor do i find his post offensive in any way...

 

and i am really grateful to TTP for sharing his story, and wish him all the best whatever he ultimately decides to do!

[MikeTheDane]

Then again, if i remember correctly, this is not the first time LMS is out with the flamestick as soon as a coalition doctor hits a less than average result (we don't know that yet, he COULD just be a slow grower)

 

LMS, you really should listen to Bill and reevaluate yourself and stop fighting the wrong people. NOBODY can make 100% satisfying results 100% of the time, even H&W, but on the other hand Dr. A and many of his patients have shown us good enough results that he is in the coalition.

 

If there was to say 5 patients quickly in a row having this problem, then Dr. A would have to be investigated, but guess what that never happens - and the answer is that TTP's results probably just happen to be one of the few below average results we see - in which case i have total confidence in Dr. A to help this patient to either get the result he wants, or a monetary reimburse. Even the patient himself does not hold Dr. A as a scapegoat, so why should you?

 

Does it mean that we have to blindly accept everything we see from the coalition? No, and we don't, but we must also face the facts and there are almost always two sides of the same story. Yes, it has happened that a doctor has been removed from the coalition due to poor results but this is a minority. I trust the coalition and moreso, trust those who screen those for the coalition.

 

So should you, and spend your energy on Armani, Bosley etc. Just my 2c.

[Atomic]

hrvoje,

 

The problem is that it is not just an opinion Lost My Swagger is offering but more like a bashing. And he came out swinging at Dr. Alexander.

 

Dr. Alexander has consistently turned out good HT results over the past few years. I could see it if this patient was butchered in some way but he was not.

 

From Taking the Plunge' own words:

Again, the hairs that have grown look perfectly natural and I've been told my scar looks fantastic. I've always praised you for that. I have not been butchered. I do not have to go out wearing a hat for fear of ridicule.

 

The fact that Lost My Swagger has had not one but two HT's from Bosley tells you something.

 

I think he has not only Lost his Swagger but he has Lost his Credibility on this forum.

[hairthere]

On a frozen TV dinner the instructions clearly say to cook for 15 minutes. If you take it out and eat it at 11 minutes, how do you think it will taste? HT 101: You cannot judge a HT as a success or failure until at least 12 months time. I have had two HTs, one with a shoddy doc (karamikian), one with a top doc (feller). the one and only constant between both surgeries was that the density, hair caliber, texture, appearance, etc. took at least 12 months to mature. yes, the cosmetic results were dramatically different from 9 months-12. I cannot understand why there seem to be so many threads thinking otherwise.

[Bill - Seemiller]

hrvoje14,

 

I think you are missing the point. All patients are welcome to share their genuine opinions and experiences on this forum whether the outcome of their procedure was good or bad and no matter who the physician was (recommended or not). But there is a difference between offering a genuine opinion/constructive criticism and coming out swinging with fists and accusations.

 

MikeTheDane and Atomic summed up the reasons for my last post to "Lost My Swagger" quite nicely. Trying to keep this forum fair, balanced, and safe for all participants isn't always easy. Swagger has a long history of abrasive posts, many of which (like the above) are on or over the line of breaching our terms of service. If my tone sounds harsh, it's because in addition to helping to educate and support hair loss sufferers, I sometimes have to enforcer of our community's rules to protect those who are being unfairly maligned. This is also not my first rendezvous with "Lost My Swagger".

 

In addition to defending physicians from being unfairly maligned, there have been plenty of situations over the years, where I've defended patients and called out sub-par doctors who've attempted to mislead patients with poor results, covert marketing attempts, and/or blatant misinformation about a particular procedure or product. My goal thus, is to keep this community as open, legitimate, and fair as possible to everyone.

 

I hope you can now appreciate my reasons for trying to protect and preserve the educational and supporting nature of this community.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[NW4recession]

I think Dr. Alexander is a good doctor, but it appears something went awry here. I hope he is just a slow grower and everything turns out great. The thing that is confusing to me is that Dr. A's photos look totally acceptable and even like a good result, but TTP's pictures seem to really reveal how sparse the result really is. The only way to determine for sure is to see TTP in person or see a video with a comb going through the hair.

I commend TTP for benefiting the community the way he has by sharing his experience and at the same time keeping a cool head and not finding fault prematurely with Dr. Alexander.

[TakingThePlunge]

Hey guys,

 

As always, thanks for the concern and input. My only regret is that I've caused such controversy. As you all know, that was the furthest thing from my intention.

 

There have been lots of great points made here and also a few questions directed at me but, as I said in an earlier post, I'm going to refrain from commenting on my hair again publicly until the one year mark. In fact, rather than counting the weeks, I'm going to wait until January 2nd, the anniversary of my HT. Until that time, I'm not going to update my blog or post about my hair. I needed to step away from all this and just let it ride. Maybe by then there will be a significant difference, who knows?

 

NW4, it's as if you were reading my mind! I've been thinking about taking some video of my hair and putting it up on YouTube in order to give a better impression of how it looks but, again, I think I'll wait it out.

 

Also wanted to say thanks to thanatopsis for his post on styling products. I've tried the thickening cream and the styling dirt and it's made a noticeable difference. Have yet to buy shampoo.

 

Back in a couple of months. Happy Holidays!

[HTInitiate]

We should thank TTP for bringing this up and appreciate his patience for waiting the period as advised. I am sure Dr. Alexander being a stand-up guy, will do what is necessary! As we all know, it is a very stressful situation for folks who are not seeing results as expected and the least we can do is to support their journey !

[Petchski]

Problem with LMS is that all of his posts are negative, there is no balance in his posts...He seems to want to bash every doctor over the head with a club, and that normally ends up being good Dr's like Dr A and Dr Feller.

 

He's angry at hair transplant doctors in general because he got butchered, twice. I can sympathise with that, hell I got conned by Advanced hair studio out of 3 grand for sitting under a laser for 40 mins and 12 months worth of minoxidil, of which I only received 7 months worth!!! Bastards got me at my lowest ebb.

 

Nobody is letting Dr A "off the hook" Get some perspective man instead of s*** stirring.

[Anouar]

From what i read from lms makes some valid points. its not like hes verbaly abusing the doc. He should be able to express his opinion. What i cant stand is people analysing his remarks because he was butchered.

[Ventuoguy]

This is an interesting thread. What is being talked about here alot of the time is the use and definition of various words. Is everyone familiar with the definition of word 'average?' Perhaps alot of the mudslinging could be minimized if we all understood and used the correct definitions of the terms here. If you look at coalition doctors, I think what a coalition doctor who achieves great results on a consistent basis is committed to mitigating every factor which may cause failure that is under their DIRECT control. Of course their a myriad of factors that have been discussed ad nauseum here-how the strip is harvested and dissected, how the follicles are handled by the techs, the type of incisions, the way the follicles are placed by the techs, etc etc. After the patient leaves the clinic, the ball is now in each patient's hands. The patient now has the responsibility to follow the post-op instructions and to care for the transplant properly. These are factors that are under the patient's direct control. The patient's 'physiology' is not under the patient's direct control, naturally. If TTP had 2500 grafts and his physiology dictates that he will have 50 percent growth, then this percentage of growth would theoretically be the same in the next surgery. So if he needs 1250 SUCCESSFULLY growing grafts in the same area (hairline and frontal third) then he would require an additional harvest of 2500 grafts to have 1250 grow SUCCESSFULLY. With regards to Dr. A, I feel a few of the members have been too hard on him. I would submit that Dr. A, would much rather have done the first HT session pro bono and have achieved a good result for TTP then to have this thread existant on this web site. I am certain he has reflected on that HT, and done his due diligence to assure that all the factors under his direct control have been attended to properly. No physician who works hard every day in this business would consider one day's "pay", a fair trade-off for being falsely maligned in a respected forum such as this.

Now if you look at a graph with a bell-shaped curve. the "Y" axis contains the words: poor, below average, average, above average, and excellent. All HT physicians probably have results that fall in a bell-shaped curve. Coalition doctors, ostensibly have a "tighter curve" and the curve is over to the right, where the middle of the curve is somewhere between "above-average" and "excellent". Non-coalition doctors may have wider curves, or skewed curves and the middle of the curve (that specific doctor's average result) falling to the left of the Y axis- perhaps average or below average. So-- point being, that Dr. A's indication that the patient had an 'average' result he probably was indicating that it was average of ALL HT procedures/physicians, NOT his particular 'average' result, which for him would be again, where we would see a coalition doctor's top of the curve. It's hard to explain in just words, but anyone who took a statistics 101 course should clearly understand. Obviously, Dr. A did not mean to suggest that TTP's result was HIS particular average result.

[thanatopsis_awry]

I find it hard to believe that Dr. Alexander would very very simply describe his very own patient's result to be average, but that he really meant in light of general statistic reasoning and bell curves that he was speaking about TTP in light of hair transplantation as a whole.

 

It's his own work, it's his patient -- if a Dr. tells a patient whom he operated on that his result is of X nature, let's not overcomplicate things, unless the Dr. himself actually says something else. It would be pretty atypical for a Dr, or a patient, to label a/their result to be X, and not to simply mean it to be in the context of the very Dr.'s work in question.

 

And it's really not like it's so far-fetched for Dr. Alexander to call this result "average" in this light -- TTP had a lot of real estate to cover, and he didn't get perfect yield or get a lot of grafts.

 

The question would be how often Dr. Alexander feels these "average" results occur; it's only surprising to see because so many of Dr. Alexander's cases that we see are well above average.

 

But, I really think it's actually quite reasonable for this result to appear "average" or even a bit below, just due to how much real estate needed to be covered and the modest number of grafts (and that TTP didn't have some outrageous hair charachteristics to throw in to the mix). Throw in anything but perfect yield and it's a recipe to get an underwhelming result if your expectations were to high.

[hdude46]

if this is an 'average'result, why even bother spending 10 grand to look like that. The truth is there are probably under 5 clinics doing truly state of the art transplants who consistently churn out top result after top result. I would feel very confident going to two of them, and a lot less confident going to the other 3.

 

I would say Dr. Alexander is in that 5 so yes, by industry standards this is maybe slightly below average but lets be real the industry covers a wide range of good and bad.

 

The guy didn't have ' a lot of real estate' to be covered. He had great quality hair and donor characteristics and was only filling in the frontal half of his scalp. Lets call a spade a spade for once and admit if this was any of our own heads we'd be disappointed just like ttp and stop trying to justify this result. Dr Shapiro of SMG has stated time and time again that its unacceptable to have an unhappy patient in the field of cosmetic surgery and I agree. I dont think ttp's expectations were to high at all and I believe he has every right to be underwhelmed by what he got.

[TC17]

If this was my scalp, I would not be pleased.

 

Hopefully there is still some maturation that will take place that will bring this result up to what I would consider "average."

[thanatopsis_awry]

TTP is a NW5+ and he got recco'd 2500 grafts. If that isn't a lot of real estate to be covered, and that isn't a spot of essentially walking into unrealistic expectations I don't know what is.

 

TTP can get evaluated when all is said and done and get a % on his yield, but above and beyond what the yield ended up being, I've felt, feel, and will feel that the graft reccomendation given to TTP created a recipe of unrealistic expectations and a too-good of a shot at an underwhelming result.

 

I'm pretty sure that I cautioned TTP pre-op of this very thing. I don't want any patient to end up dissatisfied after braving MPB and going through with a HT, and having realistic expectations is the name of the game. I don't think it's TTP's "fault" for having unrealistic expectations, but I believe he had them nonetheless.

[hdude46]

Maybe thinning in na nw5 pattern but your assertu=ion that he almost zero native hair preop is absurd, he had a lot of native hair still left, not to mention good thick hair quality.

 

You act like the 2500 grafts got spread out over the entire scalp when in fact they were packed in the very front of the scalp. Dr. Alexander said he could expect a great result with his hair quality and this graft number. Is this a great result? No.

[phil mascallpen]

TTP I have to commend you. You have handled a difficult situation very well. You have been very clear to not blame your doctor and to also give a completely honest assessment of your results and how you feel about them.

 

I have had 2 HTs, met numerous patients and researched Hts for years meeting many HT doctors along the way. So I think I am an informed patient.

 

The proof is in the pudding and at 10 months it is very reasonable to expect to see more growth than you have. Personally I would be unhappy too. I would be unhappy with the growth, the doctor's assessment and the implication that somehow it is physiology and/or unrealistic expectations.

 

I just wanted to give my opinion and I really do hope things improve for you over the next 2 months.

[thanatopsis_awry]

I think we are basically advocating the same side, hdude. But he was a NW5, and it matters despite the fact that the grafts were just allocated to his front -- because he had poor and certainly not great supporting regions to influence and aid the perceived density of his recipient zone.

 

Just look at the very clear pictures taken the morning of his procedure.

 

"Dr. Alexander said he could expect a great result with his hair quality and this graft number. Is this a great result? No."

 

I agree.

 

The very situation we are now unfortunately discussing is the very thing that I feared would happen *before* TTP went under the knife.

 

Why? Because the "margin for error" was EXTREMELY low, the potential for "underwhelming" was disproportionately high, IMHO. And this is because TTP did NOT have a lot of native hair, and he did not have tremendous support for his recipient zone AND he was not getting a whole lot of grafts -- principally because they were *shooting* for 2500.

 

For these reasons, because of TTP receiving the type of sub-optimal yield that he did, it has resulted in such a dissatisfactory result that has drawn the attention it has.

 

But IMHO, it is not some heinous yield, per say, that catches my attention, nor has caught my attention, so much as it is the gameplan that I personally would have questioned were I in TTP's shoes, and which I did question for that very reason.

[Atomic]

There seems to be some unhappy HT patients weighing in on this thread & taking thier frustration out on this case.

I really don't see this as a bad resut at all!The guy looks 100% better IMO.

[freakin]

Atomic, this thread also reeks of politics and agendas, and I really don't see where TakingThePlunge benefits from any of it.

[phil mascallpen]

Originally posted by Atomic:

There seems to be some unhappy HT patients weighing in on this thread & taking thier frustration out on this case.

I really don't see this as a bad resut at all!The guy looks 100% better IMO.

 

Why do you feel the need to judge the people who disagree with you? It's very simple: you like the result, others don't. I don't see anyone questioning your motivation.

[lost my swagger]

Atomic, this thread also reeks of politics and agendas, and I really don't see where TakingThePlunge benefits from any of it.

 

 

there are very few ways unhappy patients gain any "benifit" after the fact.....

 

1.they get money back(highly unlikely and they are STILL left with an unnatural look)

 

or

 

 

2 they get fixed for free or greatly discount pricing, but ACTUALLY get fixed this time around..

 

the 2nd option pretty much never happens(ask john malloy if dr feller is gonna fix him at no cost after leaving him with crap density).. and truthfully its very difficult for a patient to even WANT to get back in the chair with a dr who has already let him down once.

 

the dr in this case, and with other cases just like this.. did NOT deliver.. he failed his patient. period.. even though alot of you posters and most all docs do there best to SPIN it when cases like TTP's pop up...

 

so yeah 'freakin', your right TTP is not benifiting from this thread but i ask you, HOW WAS HE EVER GOING TO ANYWAY? enlighten me.

 

the people than benifit from TTP's experience are ALL THE REST OF US... he shared his experience for our benifit...

 

i hope his next decision whatever it is, ends with the satisfaction we all as patients deserve... its our heads at stake here, its our appearances at stake. not these drs...

[thanatopsis_awry]

Just FWIW...TTP himself -- you know, the guy who is supposed to be the one we are supporting -- seems pretty cool/appreciative/supported with the advice, support, and words that have defined this thread, and have been given to him, and given to his case.

 

Phil, do you want to see someone question Atomic's motivations?

 

Look, when you have a dissatisfied patient and a majority of non-biased people who would feel dissatisfied as well, it isn't the best situation.

 

Still important to keep in mind that when TTP reaches the completion of his HT (12months?) he will work with Dr. Alexander and hopefully reach a conclusion on things and a path to move forward on that works for everyone.