Terrified of Fin, the side effects, and the serious implications it has

[Hairtroubles]

3 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Talk to @hairlossPA and @Shifty they both have threads showing a massive improvement. 

Hey man, can you link me to that post, HairlossPa has thousands of posts.  It did lead me to this: 

That is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING.  "4% have sides" and now more than 50% admit they do on this forum.  Jeezish christ man. Every time I pluck up the courage to do it and then I see that and it just makes me think nah screw it.

 

 

[Hairtroubles]

P.S is the Topical Fin on MinoxidilMax legit, site looks dodgy, but is legit?  @j1mmy @Melvin-Moderator

 

https://www.minoxidilmax.com/topical-finasteride-without-minoxidil-essengen-f

[hairlossPA]

17 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I don’t see any reason in being terrified, if you get sides stop. If you don’t get sides, you’re golden.

it’s as simple as this.

finasteride regrew a shit ton of hair for me. it was sincerely life changing.

i don’t really subscribe to the topical solutions whether they be topical fin or topical minoxidil. in my experience topical minoxidil didn’t do anything. it’s just simply not feasible to get the foam in contact with your ACTUAL scalp where it makes contact with your skin and penetrates in an amount that would actually amount to anything. in my opinion it got mostly on my pre-existing hair and just made it crusty from the dried foam.

now if you are working with a pretty bald head, you can be sure the foam is getting to your skin and penetrates 

[Hairtroubles]

35 minutes ago, hairlossPA said:

it’s as simple as this.

finasteride regrew a shit ton of hair for me. it was sincerely life changing.

i don’t really subscribe to the topical solutions whether they be topical fin or topical minoxidil. in my experience topical minoxidil didn’t do anything. it’s just simply not feasible to get the foam in contact with your ACTUAL scalp where it makes contact with your skin and penetrates in an amount that would actually amount to anything. in my opinion it got mostly on my pre-existing hair and just made it crusty from the dried foam.

now if you are working with a pretty bald head, you can be sure the foam is getting to your skin and penetrates 

Okay so what you take oral Min?  Any sides from Oral min?  

I have pretty short hair, like relatively short hair for sure.  Wouldn't that be okay?

 

Did you get any sides on Fin? Why is it life changing?

[Hairtroubles]

18 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Ultimately, it’s up to you to decide whether you want to take fin. I don’t see any reason in being terrified, if you get sides stop. If you don’t get sides, you’re golden.

Okay, Im going to try topical Min and Fin, if I buy them seperately, how should I go about it?

13 hours ago, Curious25 said:

If you are ‘terrified’ of a non life saving medication, then you probably aren’t suited to taking it. 
 

Everyone is unique and individual - some value their hair as the be all and end all, others want it, yet aren’t prepared to sacrifice or potentially sacrifice other areas of their life in order to try and preserve it. 
 

All you can do is read, research, and consult with relevant doctors who understand the drug, it’s pathology, and are able to assess you accordingly. The mantra of ‘just try it and if you get sides stop’ is all well and good, but the acknowledged tiny percentile of users who fall victim to persistent side effects throws that advice out the window for the more risk averse patients, which I’m assuming you may be judging by your posts. 
 

Statistically, noticeable side effects are low. Whether you believe that or not, still doesn’t equate to it being an easy decision to make as the ‘potential’ side effects and general nature of the drug are largely the complete opposite of most 18-50 year olds men’s desires . . So many on here can empathise with your current dilemma. If most people are honest, they would admit that they begrudgingly use it. However it is the best thing we have at the moment in order to slow down progression, and studies suggest the majority of users don’t experience unwanted side effects. 

I don’t know what your hair loss situation is, but it’s actually starting to come to a point where hair loss sufferers who have good donor and a pattern of loss that doesn’t exceed NW 5 sometimes even 6, are able to get very fulfilling results, without using preventative medication - so long as they are having surgery from great clinics, achieving high yields, and have smartly planned strategies. 

Another emerging innovation is the development of regenerative medicine techniques - have a listen to the IG live that @Melvin-Moderator did with Dr Bernstein. 

Try not to worry too much, and take your time to read and consult. 
 

You will make the right decision for you in time. 

Thanks man, if you actually read Dumbo's post in here, and his story, you can see he had a HT and then didn't take medication, he then says its pretty much impossible to get the best results without taking Fin unfortunately, so if you get a HT, you should take Fin.  It's ridiculous, scary, that this is the case, that I cant have my hair and be psyched out by these sides.  It terrifies me man, it really does.

[hairlossPA]

11 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Okay so what you take oral Min?  Any sides from Oral min?  

I have pretty short hair, like relatively short hair for sure.  Wouldn't that be okay?

 

Did you get any sides on Fin? Why is it life changing?

i stopped taking oral min. didnt think it was doing anything.

short hair should be fine

no sides from fin

[Hairtroubles]

4 minutes ago, hairlossPA said:

i stopped taking oral min. didnt think it was doing anything.

short hair should be fine

no sides from fin

Thats crazy, I dont get the poll then in this forum that says there are more than 50% people with sides... its super missleading.

 

Topical Fin will be okay? I just bought some...

[hairlossPA]

i mean... that is a sample size of 60 people, not thousands. that’s like having 5 people flip a coin and 4 get heads and 1 gets tails. you’re not going to be like omg the chances of getting heads is 80%!!! if you expand that test to thousands and thousands of people the results would begin to even to 50/50.

 

why is it crazy i don’t have side effects?

also... the poll does not cover what “side effects” people experienced. some could’ve gotten foggy brain, some could’ve gotten ED, some could’ve had watery semen, some could’ve had all 3 of those symptoms. maybe someone’s side effect was regrowing hair?

some people get side effects and continue to take it cause the “side effect” is so minimal 

edit: i don’t really know what to think of the numbers thrown around around finasteride side effects. you hear 1%, you hear 3-5%, you hear any number these days. just try it and if you experience something you don’t like, stop taking it 

Edited April 16, 2021 by hairlossPA

[Shifty]

3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Talk to @hairlossPA and @Shifty they both have threads showing a massive improvement. 

In my signature.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, hairlossPA said:

i mean... that is a sample size of 60 people, not thousands. that’s like having 5 people flip a coin and 4 get heads and 1 gets tails. you’re not going to be like omg the chances of getting heads is 80%!!! if you expand that test to thousands and thousands of people the results would begin to even to 50/50.

 

why is it crazy i don’t have side effects?

also... the poll does not cover what “side effects” people experienced. some could’ve gotten foggy brain, some could’ve gotten ED, some could’ve had watery semen, some could’ve had all 3 of those symptoms. maybe someone’s side effect was regrowing hair?

some people get side effects and continue to take it cause the “side effect” is so minimal 

edit: i don’t really know what to think of the numbers thrown around around finasteride side effects. you hear 1%, you hear 3-5%, you hear any number these days. just try it and if you experience something you don’t like, stop taking it 

I agree. I believe side effects are understated, but no way is it 50%. If I had to guess I’d probably say around 10%. 

[RandoBrando517]

Dude get on fin if you wanna save your hair don’t listen to horror stories online look at the success stories 

[j1mmy]

5 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I agree. I believe side effects are understated, but no way is it 50%. If I had to guess I’d probably say around 10%. 

Yeah I was reflecting on it, and I think a poll here is unfortunately subject to a bias that can never be accurately reflective. It is the reason studies themself have to be blinded, and double blinded. That is to say, if you inform people that something has/had a percentage of side effects, especially something sensationalised as much as this, and THEN ask them how many people experienced side effects, it will come out skewed. I wish it was as easy as that, it but we as humans are not very logical 

That said, I think @Melvin-Moderator is right to speculate that the sexual side effects may be understated. Not because the original studies don't ask men about these specific things, but because men are not always honest or aware about what they are experiencing. 

I would perhaps answer "yes" to experiencing side effects. Not because it is a big deal.

I have heard of numerous people agree that they noticed transient testicular pain upon starting treatment. I have noticed it when I have re-started, when I have increased dose, when I have lost ground on a generic and switched back to named brand. 

I thought I noticed a reduction in libido many years ago when I first started, and that was an accepted trade-off for me. Years later, it is not something I "notice". I don't think ejaculate volume change is a deal breaker, and *maybe* something I noticed 10 years ago, but not now. Fortunately I have never experienced ED issues, otherwise I understand for a lot of men that is a deal breaker. I understand breast tenderness (beginning gyno) would definitely be a deal breaker. I don't really understand brain fog reports, that must be the most "human" side effect from taking anything. 

I still have never heard of a real person, who can communicate with people in a normal way, that they have experienced permanent side effects. However if it were me, i'm sure it is nothing consulting an endocrinologist couldn't help. Many men and women, for many reasons, have hormones in the gutter. 

[Karen81]

You can also try topical finasteride. I started with topical had no side effects, switched to oral after one year and switched now back because its working the same and I can combine it with my minox protocoll

[Hairtroubles]

5 hours ago, Karen81 said:

You can also try topical finasteride. I started with topical had no side effects, switched to oral after one year and switched now back because its working the same and I can combine it with my minox protocoll

Thanks Karen, why did you switch from Topical to Oral, then back again?  Did you have side effects from Oral?  Whats your thoughts?

[Hairtroubles]

7 hours ago, j1mmy said:

Yeah I was reflecting on it, and I think a poll here is unfortunately subject to a bias that can never be accurately reflective. It is the reason studies themself have to be blinded, and double blinded. That is to say, if you inform people that something has/had a percentage of side effects, especially something sensationalised as much as this, and THEN ask them how many people experienced side effects, it will come out skewed. I wish it was as easy as that, it but we as humans are not very logical 

That said, I think @Melvin-Moderator is right to speculate that the sexual side effects may be understated. Not because the original studies don't ask men about these specific things, but because men are not always honest or aware about what they are experiencing. 

I would perhaps answer "yes" to experiencing side effects. Not because it is a big deal.

I have heard of numerous people agree that they noticed transient testicular pain upon starting treatment. I have noticed it when I have re-started, when I have increased dose, when I have lost ground on a generic and switched back to named brand. 

I thought I noticed a reduction in libido many years ago when I first started, and that was an accepted trade-off for me. Years later, it is not something I "notice". I don't think ejaculate volume change is a deal breaker, and *maybe* something I noticed 10 years ago, but not now. Fortunately I have never experienced ED issues, otherwise I understand for a lot of men that is a deal breaker. I understand breast tenderness (beginning gyno) would definitely be a deal breaker. I don't really understand brain fog reports, that must be the most "human" side effect from taking anything. 

I still have never heard of a real person, who can communicate with people in a normal way, that they have experienced permanent side effects. However if it were me, i'm sure it is nothing consulting an endocrinologist couldn't help. Many men and women, for many reasons, have hormones in the gutter. 

Okay, makes sense, do you think overall, you would feel comfortable getting your son on this for an example.  Also, I went to boots pharmacy today, they offer finasteride.

https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy-advice/mens-health-advice/hair-loss-online-clinic

Thoughts on price: A four week supply of Finasteride costs £42 through our online clinic, and a four week supply of Propecia costs £52 (subject to stock availability and clinician approval).  Is it worth it, or should I Just buy topical fin off minoxidil max?

I also wanted your thoughts on this study:  https://www.ishrs-htforum.org/content/28/3/112

 

Overall, I am leaning to Topical Fin, i see varying opinions, what do you think being on the forum and knowing a lot?

 

[Hairtroubles]

Hi Guys,

 

I bit the bullet, just bought Topical Fin off MinoxidilMax, free sample ($15 shipping). 

I have Minoxidil Foam 5%, Topical Fin now, and Dermapen.  To ease myself into this, how should I start, to be safe?  How should I apply the Fin, where, on areas of hair, and how much ML per day? Should I do EOD?  

Let me know the best way to go about this and your thoughts?

[Hairtroubles]

I want to know, Like what do the studies say, I know youre on the forums and read everything.  But what are the actual HARD statistics with Fin, and Topical Fin, with side effects and PFS?

What are the concrete numbers? Do you personally know people who take it, and the effect it has had on them?  And if they had, the people who stop, how long does it take to go back to normal?  I see reddit posts of people randomly commenting saying its been 4 months, and they still cant get a boner, I have seen like 10-15 people saying this, it cant be a coincidence.

I cant read anymore on this, I feel like I am getting side effects and I am not even on the pill right now, its all im thinking about, all the time, Ive bought everything now, everything, its all about now my regimen and how I start.
 

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

I want to know, Like what do the studies say, I know youre on the forums and read everything.  But what are the actual HARD statistics with Fin, and Topical Fin, with side effects and PFS?

What are the concrete numbers? Do you personally know people who take it, and the effect it has had on them?  And if they had, the people who stop, how long does it take to go back to normal?  I see reddit posts of people randomly commenting saying its been 4 months, and they still cant get a boner, I have seen like 10-15 people saying this, it cant be a coincidence.

I cant read anymore on this, I feel like I am getting side effects and I am not even on the pill right now, its all im thinking about, all the time, Ive bought everything now, everything, its all about now my regimen and how I start.
 

Stop obsessing over it, otherwise you’ll give yourself nocebo side effects.

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Stop obsessing over it, otherwise you’ll give yourself nocebo side effects.

Okay, should I take a break for a bit? Its hard man, this is imporatnt to me.

[Hairtroubles]

WTF is this, I was just about to start taking Minoxidil Foam 5% bought from Minoxidil World.  I have dediced I do not want to try Fin, I was going to start Minoxidil and Dermapen.  Great, thats a plan.  

On the box, I see the following:
- DO NOT USE MINOXIDIL IF YOU HAVE HAIR LOSS SHOWN IN A DIFFERENT PLACE TO THE IMAGES ON THE RIGHT OF THE BOX.  This shows hairloss in the middle (scalp).  It says, DO NOT USE MINOXIDIL ON THE FRONT OF THE HAIRLINE, basically, i should focus on the fortex.  "THIS IS NOT INTENDED FOR FRONTAL BOLDNESS OR RECEEDING HAIRLINE" as it states on the box.

WHAT THE ACTUAL F IS GOING ON MAN. SERIOUSLY, I GIVE UP. WHAT THE ACTUAL F&CK. IM ABOUT TO F&CKING PUNCH A HOLE IN THE WALL.  
This is the first time I am hearing about this, about Minoxidil Foam 5% not to be used on the frontal hair or receeding hairline.  To be exact, this is the one I bought:  https://www.minoxidilworld.co.uk/shop/kirkland-minoxidil-foam-6-month-supply

No seriously, im about to cry, i dont care what anyone thinks or judges me. Is minoxidil not supposed to be for receeding hairline on the front, for real? Like have i misunderstood this whole god damn time what minoxidil is for?  I thought it can be used all over the hair?  Someone today told me it was supposed to be on the front of the hair!?  

Seriously, do i return my minoxidil 6 month subscription now, im at a loss, like im about to delete my accounts and shave my head.  Literally gone from someone who was a good looking guy with attention to looking like Doby out of harry potter, every thing I have bought, everything, I have spend GBP 350.00 pounds on minoxidil, derman pen, needles, wipes, fin, and more, to now not wanting to take fin cuz of research, and now the min I have not to be used on my reeceding line and front hair line.

This itself is causing me depression.  Like seriously, how the f have I got this all wrong. 

Why does it say this on the minoxidil box, im being serious? Why?


By the way, these are the studies and posts to why I wont take fin:

• https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-courts-secrecy-propecia/
  https://www.the-dermatologist.com/content/does-finasteride-lead-permanent-sexual-side-effects
• https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33814544/
• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369643/

[Hairtroubles]

And finally, is this true, im seeing lots of posts about this, dark circles and rapid aging skin whilst using minoxidil?  

Dark circles are not a myth. Minox also causes an 80% decrease to in lysine hydroxylase, a protein essential to collagen production. Minox has a side effect profile, it’s a pharmaceutical product. You’re not rubbing Jergen’s into your scalp.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1130991/pdf/biochemj00138-0060.pdf

[Melvin- Admin]

Honestly man, maybe you should just accept balding. If you’re not willing to risk medication, there’s nothing else to say. Sounds like you’re being OCD about the side effects. You might be better off doing nothing. 

[shami26]

You can use minoxidil all over the scalp for benefits. I believe the FDA approval is only for the crown hence the instructions on the box.

[Dr. Neil Verma]

When starting finasteride it is best to start with as low a dose as possible and low a frequency of use as possible.  This typically does a good job to minimize side effects.  

[Hairtroubles]

10 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Honestly man, maybe you should just accept balding. If you’re not willing to risk medication, there’s nothing else to say. Sounds like you’re being OCD about the side effects. You might be better off doing nothing. 

Hey man, yeah Im starting to think that, even when I find a solution, Saw Palmetto, I think Ill start on that, thats an easy route, then I see stories of people who just like Fin, are struggling massively, I dont get it, maybe im the issue (probably I am), maybe you think: "Damn this guy has problems", I just research everything, and thats maybe my problem.

 

Even my biggest supporter here, J1mmy, seems to have given up on me 😥