Terrified of Fin, the side effects, and the serious implications it has

[Hair4Days]

1 minute ago, asterix0 said:

I have had a few consultations, travel from the US is a challenge to Europe where the best FUE surgeons are in my opinion, but I have some trips planned once the situation with corona settles down.

Another thing is that 7 years ago or so when I started balding, transplants were good but not as good as today's in my opinion. So at the time I didn't really see them as viable as an option as they appear now.

Also, I started balding in college, and considering student loans and the cost in general, I really didn't think I would have had enough money to go to the surgeon I wanted. Years of saving and working post graduation have opened up possibilities that I can now hopefully take advantage of.

So in the meantime I thought it made sense to use treatments to hold onto as much as I can. At least I was able to make it through most of my twenties with hair on my head, I really sympathize with the young guys out there that lose it all super quick. A brutal experience, and the modern world is hard enough already for so many reasons. 

Are you heading towards an advanced pattern? I am. I was told starting with fut is the only way to maximize your donor area so you can get max coverage front to back. There’s a lot of good fut surgeons in the US. I’d say the average is about $13k for a 2500 Graft procedure 

[asterix0]

Just now, James C said:

Are you heading towards an advanced pattern? I am. I was told starting with fut is the only way to maximize your donor area so you can get max coverage front to back. There’s a lot of good fut surgeons in the US. I’d say the average is about $13k for a 2500 Graft procedure 

I definitely am, probably Norwood 5-6. I hope not Norwood 7 since my sides have remained high and thick for the most part, but one never knows with this bullshit. I would have been there years ago if not for finasteride and minoxidil. 

Yes, in theory FUT + FUE does give maximum coverage. What you suggested was actually my original plan. However, the same way how some people fear finasteride, I somewhat fear FUT. For one, Im worried about scar stretching and nerve damage. I have read cases about the pain and numbness in the donor long after the surgery has been done.I also sort of want the get out of jail card of buzzing my head if things go wrong, and that seems much more doable after FUE than FUT.

I think FUE yields have somewhat closed the gap with FUT to make it more viable. And when I look at how the donor area looks with doctors such as Dr. Zarev, it almost looks untouched. Similarly with other doctors such as Dr. Konior. 

[Hair4Days]

9 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

I definitely am, probably Norwood 5-6. I hope not Norwood 7 since my sides have remained high and thick for the most part, but one never knows with this bullshit. I would have been there years ago if not for finasteride and minoxidil. 

Yes, in theory FUT + FUE does give maximum coverage. What you suggested was actually my original plan. However, the same way how some people fear finasteride, I somewhat fear FUT. For one, Im worried about scar stretching and nerve damage. I have read cases about the pain and numbness in the donor long after the surgery has been done.I also sort of want the get out of jail card of buzzing my head if things go wrong, and that seems much more doable after FUE than FUT.

I think FUE yields have somewhat closed the gap with FUT to make it more viable. And when I look at how the donor area looks with doctors such as Dr. Zarev, it almost looks untouched. Similarly with other doctors such as Dr. Konior. 

Reading this sounds like i was the one who wrote it. I agree with you 1000%. That escape plan of shaving sounds magnificent on paper. I just have gotten multiple consults of doctors saying if you start with fut you can basically yield an extra 2-3k grafts. That’s enough to either cover your crown or not. When i see these amazing fut results with the scar hidden, it makes me want to jump the gun with the right surgeon. But the anxiety of having that scar keeps us on this forum instead of in the operating room 

Edited March 23, 2021 by James C

[AB2000]

28 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

Yes, even at Norwood 7 recoveries are possible, there are Eugenix cases with beard + body hair that have some pretty amazing transformations. Also other surgeons are quite adept at high Norwood cases, certainly there is still hope.

But there is still a small minority of patients that have their transplanted hair thin out. Does that risk outweigh the risk of finasteride? I can't really say, its an individual decision. For me personally, the side effects of being bald are pretty much worse than the side effects of finasteride, so that's why I take it.

When I was balding heavily without finasteride, I had low libido, depression, brain fog, anxiety. And they weren't going away. 

From what it appears when I contacted the rep at the Eugenix clinic they do not do body hair transplants.  Unless you consider beard to be "body" hair.  I think the idea that they do BHT has been erroneously passed on as fact.  If someone from Eugenix wants to correct this they can feel free, but then I'd ask why I was told otherwise.

[asterix0]

7 minutes ago, AB2000 said:

From what it appears when I contacted the rep at the Eugenix clinic they do not do body hair transplants.  Unless you consider beard to be "body" hair.  I think the idea that they do BHT has been erroneously passed on as fact.  If someone from Eugenix wants to correct this they can feel free, but then I'd ask why I was told otherwise.

My mistake, I meant scalp + beard hair, not body hair. 

[Gatsby]

5 hours ago, AB2000 said:

From what it appears when I contacted the rep at the Eugenix clinic they do not do body hair transplants.  Unless you consider beard to be "body" hair.  I think the idea that they do BHT has been erroneously passed on as fact.  If someone from Eugenix wants to correct this they can feel free, but then I'd ask why I was told otherwise.

Yes you are correct from my understanding. They use beard and scalp grafts in a specific way to maximize the amount of donor and recipient hair appearance. Body hair is far less desirable as it's characteristics in terms of growth, thickness and survival rate make it too unreliable.

[j1mmy]

To the original poster, nobody can tell you what do do, you are your own person. The side effects you described do not sound in-line with what I have heard over many years, so I am inclined to think they were probably psychosomatic, and that you made yourself anxious after reading about side-effects. Unless of course you took oral minoxidil, and therefore you may detect a blood pressure effect (light headed, heart palpitations, dizzy). 

My guess from listening to The Bald Truth for 10 years, reading this forum and others, listening to hair transplant doctors, would be that 80-90% of "informed" hair transplant patients take finasteride, and "uninformed", who knows...25%? That is partially because they do not go to doctors who inform the patient, so they don't know any better. For those informed people who chose not to take it, it seems to be a personal choice. Some of them are fortunate enough to have very good donor supply, or discovered serendipitously that they can live with just transplanted hair (no native hair) on top of their scalp after going the multiple transplate route without medication.

Someone made a good point, the original trials showed side effects of around 4%, and placebo group was around 2%. It doesn't help to be neurotic, and the suggested route of slowly titrating dosage up (even if it may have no physiological effect), may help with neuroticism and thus psychosomatic side effects. 

There are around 10 million people taking finasteride according to prescription stats, and you hear complaints from a small handful - probably 4% of them if I was a betting man. I haven't personally heard from someone suffering from permanent side-effects, though for sure it is possible to experience transient side effects. 

I have taken finasteride for 10 years, started when I was 21. I experienced, like I have heard many a dozen others experience, a feeling of being kicked in the nuts for few days, and then it went away. Being aware of people talking about side effects, I thought I could notice lower libido, but absolutely no sexual dysfunction. Perhaps I have got used to it, but I have a very active sex life and experience no issues. During these 10 years I lost ground with my hair when switched to a generic finasteride for several months, and going back to a named brand I got kicked in the nuts once again for a day. I also increased my dosage after becoming a bit "lax" with how often I was taking it, and I got kicked in the nuts the next day. This is my "only" side effect, and I do believe this is physiological.

In a very short period of time after starting the drug, my scalp ceased to be itchy, and my hair felt strong like you could tug on it and nothing would ever fall. My perception is that if you have aggressive hair loss (under the age of 30, and especially closer to 20), finasteride is really the only thing that could save your hair. That's not to say anyone has to take it, you can shave your head, or move on with your life. 

I have had friends talk to me about hair loss and about finasteride. They say that they do not wish to take it after reading the horror stories. I do not tell them what they should do, just inform them. Secretly however, I think that if they want to keep their hair, I would prefer they tried finasteride, and simply stopped if they experienced any side effects.

Minoxidil is another story entirely, acting in an entirely different pathway, and very safe applied topically (e.g. rogaine). I saw regrowth from it, reversal of miniaturization, enough to get a visual difference. Over years I became tired of the daily application, and with that noticed a loss of physical impact it gave. So as long as you use minoxidil it can be a good tool, but be prepared to use it consistently for many years. I have recently re-started it, and regrowth has happened again that I am prepared to maintain as my hair is a little worse than when I started this journey 10 years ago. 

 

[TommyLucchese]

9 hours ago, Hairtroubles said:

The more I am starting to learn more about a Hair Transplant, the more I am realizing that you can't seem to have a successful one unless you are on Fin? Is this true?

I went to the Belgravia center in the UK once and took Minoxidil with Finasteride and it terrified me. The side effects were very real and I felt anxious, faint, and super light headed.  If you research the side effects, people are saying they had irreversible side effects of erectile dysfunction and there is a whole subreddit group on it, so any of you who say, this is 2-3%, go look at the group and read the stories, they are terrifying.  People have been off Fin for 5+ years and still cannot get a boner...

 

I thought the whole point of a Hair Transplant was to avoid medication like this, and now you are telling me I need Fin!? Seriously? What are my options, nothing?

Firstly...Belgravia Centre is a great starting point for new people to get legit hair loss products BUT it is ridiculously expensive. You can get a year of fin and minoxidil for around £300 elsewhere.

Second... it sounds like you worked yourself up into a frenzy. It shouldn't make you anxious, faint or light headed.

If you go back on it - take it slow, a quarter of a dose 3 times a week for a month. Then half a dose 3 times a week for a month. Then a full dose 5 times a week for the rest of the time you want to take it. This lets your body slowly adjust.

Having said that - with your overactive mind maybe you should look into a wig or "hair system" or just let nature take its course? If taking fin briefly gave you all that trouble, imagine the stress of booking and going through with a surgery, and the year of slowly waiting as it grows in.

[Hair4Days]

2 hours ago, TommyLucchese said:

 

Having said that - with your overactive mind maybe you should look into a wig or "hair system" or just let nature take its course? If taking fin briefly gave you all that trouble, imagine the stress of booking and going through with a surgery, and the year of slowly waiting as it grows in.

It doesn’t seem that he would have the same anxiety with getting a transplant. He’s expressing fear and doubt in a prescription drug that could harm his body temporarily or permanent. This is health related anxiety and is classified as a disorder by itself. The act of pursuing a HT would create more excitement than fear. This is strictly about Fin and the potential it has to ruin your sex life long term 

Edited March 23, 2021 by James C

[Hairtroubles]

11 hours ago, ciaus said:

About half of the 4% of guys that reported side effects during the clinical trials were not taking the finasteride, they were in the the placebo group. There are guys that get paranoid about the possibility of side effects and actually psyche themselves out into having sexual performance issues. Reading your posts you sound like one of those guys, and based on that I don't think you should bother with finasteride, you probably torture yourself with worry down the road with what-if(s) even if you don't have immediate side effects.  

And even if 20 or 50 forum members replied to this thread that they experienced side effects, it would be a bad basis for making a decision for yourself. Millions of guys have taken the drug over the decades.

Delay getting a hair transplant as long as possible so you and the doctor can best estimate whether you'll have enough hair in the long run. Or become philosophical and stop caring about superficial stuff like hair.

 

 

 

Yes I have to agree with this, given that I probably over think everything, I wouldn't be the best candidate on Fin, and I would over think everything.  I guess you agree?

 

Why wait as long as possible for the hair transplant, isn't the sooner the better?  I would have thought that would be the case?

[Hairtroubles]

11 hours ago, James C said:

Are you heading towards an advanced pattern? I am. I was told starting with fut is the only way to maximize your donor area so you can get max coverage front to back. There’s a lot of good fut surgeons in the US. I’d say the average is about $13k for a 2500 Graft procedure 

James given you are like me and do not want to take a pill for the rest of your life, what is your game plan, what did you do if you already had a transplant, can we put together a plan for myself?

Genuinely, I do not want to be on Fin, but I want to save my hair, I am starting to see this puts me in a terrible situation.  I am saving up money for the transplants, so genuinely, please can you help me out here?

[Hairtroubles]

11 hours ago, asterix0 said:

I definitely am, probably Norwood 5-6. I hope not Norwood 7 since my sides have remained high and thick for the most part, but one never knows with this bullshit. I would have been there years ago if not for finasteride and minoxidil. 

Yes, in theory FUT + FUE does give maximum coverage. What you suggested was actually my original plan. However, the same way how some people fear finasteride, I somewhat fear FUT. For one, Im worried about scar stretching and nerve damage. I have read cases about the pain and numbness in the donor long after the surgery has been done.I also sort of want the get out of jail card of buzzing my head if things go wrong, and that seems much more doable after FUE than FUT.

I think FUE yields have somewhat closed the gap with FUT to make it more viable. And when I look at how the donor area looks with doctors such as Dr. Zarev, it almost looks untouched. Similarly with other doctors such as Dr. Konior. 

Asterix, if you were me, what would you do, the FUT and FUE?  What are the differences.  Consider I do not want to take Fin, if you were me, what would you do then.

 

I guess, leave it as much as possible, and then get a hair transplant (which one) in the future? When I reach Norwood what?

 

 

[Hairtroubles]

1 hour ago, James C said:

It doesn’t seem that he would have the same anxiety with getting a transplant. He’s expressing fear and doubt in a prescription drug that could harm his body temporarily or permanent. This is health related anxiety and is classified as a disorder by itself. The act of pursuing a HT would create more excitement than fear. This is strictly about Fin and the potential it has to ruin your sex life long term 

Could not say this any better... exactly this... and the fear or permanent side effects... it terrifies me.

[j1mmy]

14 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Yes I have to agree with this, given that I probably over think everything, I wouldn't be the best candidate on Fin, and I would over think everything.  I guess you agree?

 

Why wait as long as possible for the hair transplant, isn't the sooner the better?  I would have thought that would be the case?

Waiting serves a multitude of benefits:

• Making emotional decisions at the peak of your anxiety makes you a poor candidate for hair transplant surgery. It makes it likely that you are not emotionally equipped to deal with an unsatisfactory, or unnatural result a surgery could give you. Not to mention complications; poor growth, cobblestoning, necrosis, infection, nerve damage, death.  
• Hair loss is a progressive disease. Your hair loss will get worse. "Fixing" what hair loss pattern you see right now, will evolve one year from now, especially without medication. This can look very unnatural, leading to worse emotional down spiral. 
• With time you learn to desensitize to your issue, and address your problem on other levels, other than just life-threatening surgery. You explore emotional coping mechanisms, work on confidence, learn about all hair transplant treatments, can camouflage help, different hair cuts. 
• Time allows you to get perspective and due your due diligence. Research all the options, and make decisions that are weighted and not rushed, so you don't make your situation potentially worse by trying dangerous treatments or dangerous transplant doctors. 

[Hairtroubles]

2 minutes ago, j1mmy said:

Waiting serves a multitude of benefits:

• Making emotional decisions at the peak of your anxiety makes you a poor candidate for hair transplant surgery. It makes it likely that you are not emotionally equipped to deal with an unsatisfactory, or unnatural result a surgery could give you. Not to mention complications; poor growth, cobblestoning, necrosis, infection, nerve damage, death.  
• Hair loss is a progressive disease. Your hair loss will get worse. "Fixing" what hair loss pattern you see right now, will evolve one year from now, especially without medication. This can look very unnatural, leading to worse emotional down spiral. 
• With time you learn to desensitize to your issue, and address your problem on other levels, other than just life-threatening surgery. You explore emotional coping mechanisms, work on confidence, learn about all hair transplant treatments, can camouflage help, different hair cuts. 
• Time allows you to get perspective and due your due diligence. Research all the options, and make decisions that are weighted and not rushed, so you don't make your situation potentially worse by trying dangerous treatments or dangerous transplant doctors. 

I wanted to reply to your other post properly, as you wrote a lot I felt like you deserved a detailed reply.  I really appreciate the message you wrote.  I just terrifies me, I wish I took Fin and experienced no side effects, genuinely.  In this quote above, what are you saying, that there are equally damaging effects from getting a HT then taking Fin mentally?

You seem to know a lot in this area, if all honesty, based on those pics, if they were you, what would you do and what would be your game plan?  Get Fin and slowly start it, document any changes?  Genuinely.

It is just terrifying that this is the case - that Fin literally turns your body into a female, that is it's goal, and we are taking it as if that is no problem.  I would genuinely want to hear your plan for me that you think I should take that maintains my best mental state and hair.

Do you think leaving it, doing nothing, not touching anything for a year or two and then considering a hair transplant as the best option?

Taking Fin now, how do I do this, where do I buy it in the UK, should I even consider it?

Minoxidil as well, or not?

Leaving it go bald. I do not know.

[Hair4Days]

17 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

James given you are like me and do not want to take a pill for the rest of your life, what is your game plan, what did you do if you already had a transplant, can we put together a plan for myself?

Genuinely, I do not want to be on Fin, but I want to save my hair, I am starting to see this puts me in a terrible situation.  I am saving up money for the transplants, so genuinely, please can you help me out here?

So you’re in the same boat as me basically. I’m in my late 20s with difffused hairloss throughout the top with recession in the hairline. I’m not taking finasteride. I was told by multiple Ht surgeons that surgery alone can give you the coverage you need so why would i take fin? I’ll just get a second or 3rd surgery. You will typically start with your frontal third, rebuild your hairline and feather into your mid scalp. That’ll keep you looking great for years until the back half starts to bald out. Then you do another 2500 graft case to knock out the back half. After two surgeries you’ll likely use 5000-6000 grafts with major improvement. The average patient has this in their donor supply. Then if you’re able to grab another 2k fue grafts you can fill in any weaker zones. Knowing that this strategy is possible for you  is the only thing you should care about. Why would anyone want to get a surgery on their frontal third and then rely on a pill to keep the back half? What if you decide you can’t tolerate finasteride anymore? What if it loses its potency? You’re then stuck in the same boat, genetics take over and you lose the hair you were destined to lose in the first place. In my opinion Dr Bloxham is the best as planning for the future and not relying on medication for young patients. Starting conservative with your hairline allows you to get the full coverage you’ll need when all is said and done. Highly recommend consulting with him 

[j1mmy]

18 minutes ago, James C said:

So you’re in the same boat as me basically. I’m in my late 20s with difffused hairloss throughout the top with recession in the hairline. I’m not taking finasteride. I was told by multiple Ht surgeons that surgery alone can give you the coverage you need so why would i take fin? I’ll just get a second or 3rd surgery. You will typically start with your frontal third, rebuild your hairline and feather into your mid scalp. That’ll keep you looking great for years until the back half starts to bald out. Then you do another 2500 graft case to knock out the back half. After two surgeries you’ll likely use 5000-6000 grafts with major improvement. The average patient has this in their donor supply. Then if you’re able to grab another 2k fue grafts you can fill in any weaker zones. Knowing that this strategy is possible for you  is the only thing you should care about. Why would anyone want to get a surgery on their frontal third and then rely on a pill to keep the back half? What if you decide you can’t tolerate finasteride anymore? What if it loses its potency? You’re then stuck in the same boat, genetics take over and you lose the hair you were destined to lose in the first place. In my opinion Dr Bloxham is the best as planning for the future and not relying on medication for young patients. Starting conservative with your hairline allows you to get the full coverage you’ll need when all is said and done. Highly recommend consulting with him 

The point is that surgery can give you coverage NOW, sure. My opinion is that 6000 (+2000) grafts gives thin coverage to a NW7.  That's assuming all three procedures and £30,000 went to good use, with no permanent shock loss to the native hair . So let's say he is 35 years old at that point, is he going to be happy with less coverage than he has now, after three years of the last 10 recovering from surgery? That's not to mention that miniaturization in the donor hairs is real depending on the person, affecting your future transplanted hairs.

An action plan based on "keeping ahead" of your loss is an optimistic one, and may lead many people to a dead end, with no donor left, and unsatisfactory coverage. Some people have achieved it, but it is a dangerous game you are playing, and all too easy to look at the people that got there by accident, repairing previous surgeries and hair loss until they ran out of donor with decent coverage, not because they planned it that way all along.

Edited March 23, 2021 by j1mmy

[asterix0]

1 hour ago, Hairtroubles said:

Asterix, if you were me, what would you do, the FUT and FUE?  What are the differences.  Consider I do not want to take Fin, if you were me, what would you do then.

 

I guess, leave it as much as possible, and then get a hair transplant (which one) in the future? When I reach Norwood what?

 

 

If you do not want to take fin, I would just accept my hair in the state that it is in and wait until the loss is significant enough to look at transplant options. You are still a ways away from there, with your pattern, because it is diffuse, that makes transplants much trickier, as the surgeon must be careful to not damage the surrounding hair, which is already getting weakened by the male pattern baldness process.

 

 

[j1mmy]

24 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

I wanted to reply to your other post properly, as you wrote a lot I felt like you deserved a detailed reply.  I really appreciate the message you wrote.  I just terrifies me, I wish I took Fin and experienced no side effects, genuinely.  In this quote above, what are you saying, that there are equally damaging effects from getting a HT then taking Fin mentally?

You seem to know a lot in this area, if all honesty, based on those pics, if they were you, what would you do and what would be your game plan?  Get Fin and slowly start it, document any changes?  Genuinely.

It is just terrifying that this is the case - that Fin literally turns your body into a female, that is it's goal, and we are taking it as if that is no problem.  I would genuinely want to hear your plan for me that you think I should take that maintains my best mental state and hair.

Do you think leaving it, doing nothing, not touching anything for a year or two and then considering a hair transplant as the best option?

Taking Fin now, how do I do this, where do I buy it in the UK, should I even consider it?

Minoxidil as well, or not?

Leaving it go bald. I do not know.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I know how you are feeling. Losing my hair at 20, I was the only one of my friends in that position, and am still the worst off 10 years later. It is not nice to feel your looks and attractiveness eroding at a young age, feeling as though you are already "dying" of old age is how I felt. The opposite of vital, like I should have felt at 20. 

What exactly did you take from Belgravia? 

It does not turn you into a female, you have been reading propaganda, or too many transexual websites .  It lowers your DHT by approximately 70%. You still have DHT, and your body upregulates testosterone a little as one of the feedback mechanisms. DHT's main role is in male sexual differentiation (i.e. puberty), after that it has a "minor role" as a circulating endocrine hormone, 1/20th the circulating concentration of free testosterone. 

Your plan of action should be focused on thinking of other things, other than just your hair. If you got cancer tomorrow, you wouldn't care about your hair anymore, put it in perspective. 

Minoxidil is not a prescription drug, finasteride is. 

If I had previous issues with anxiety, I would want to separate these two medications, starting with the one you are most comfortable with, minoxidil. You notice positive effects of regrowth, if you are a good responder, after 2+ months of using minoxidil. This seeing of new hairs for the first time in years can be enough to encourage you, and may be something you want to stick with for many years. I don't think your anxiety about it lends itself to starting finasteride right now, because you are too worried about it, and I don't think you have reason to. An effect from minoxidil buys you time in your 20's to make the right decisions going forward, whether that is finasteride, surgery, shaved head, hair piece. 

But if you were to start after seeing results from minoxidil, and felt in the right position to do so, then you might consider finasteride. I would definitely start by taking as little finasteride as possible to ease your mind. Prescriptions can be got from boots online in the UK, amongst others. I would buy a pill cutter from the pharmacy, and cut a 1mg pill into 4, and take 0,25g twice per week for a month. If that was ok 0,25g three times per week, etc. If I noticed any side effects, I would go back down to the previous. This has worked for hundreds of people that I have heard of.

You should check out TheBaldTruth show, now broadcasted on youtube Friday 9 or 10pm GMT. The hosts have taken finasteride for 50 years combined, and spoken to literally thousands of callers over 20 years. Anyone reporting side effects has reported transient side effects, and nobody permanent side effects. 

[asterix0]

You also need to understand, I am by no means a finasteride pill pusher. I take this drug begrudgingly, but out of necessity for myself personally, as I could not deal psychologically with being bald. Imagine your own head of hair, but about 25-33% less density. That was my hair at age 22. And it was going fast. So think about the despair you are feeling now, but all of a sudden surround yourself with college aged people, with practically 99% of them having great hair. 

I was fortunate to get regrowth and some stabilization from minoxidil and finasteride, and it has held up for the most part over the last 5 years. 

 

[Hair4Days]

10 minutes ago, j1mmy said:

The point is that surgery can give you coverage NOW, sure. My opinion is that 6000 (+2000) grafts gives thin coverage to a NW7.  That's assuming all three procedures and £30,000 went to good use, with no permanent shock loss to the native hair . So let's say he is 35 years old at that point, is he going to be happy with less coverage than he has now, after three years of the last 10 recovering from surgery? That's not to mention that miniaturization in the donor hairs is real depending on the person, affecting your future transplanted hairs.

An action plan based on "keeping ahead" of your loss is an optimistic one, and may lead many people to a dead end, with no donor left, and unsatisfactory coverage. Some people have achieved it, but it is a dangerous game you are playing, and all too easy to look at the people that got there by accident, repairing previous surgeries and hair loss until they ran out of donor with decent coverage, not because they planned it that way all along.

If you densely graft 2500 grafts in your frontal third, those transplants will stand alone and look good without native hairs. You need to know how many grafts per sq cm gives the illusion of density. You’ll obviously favor the front. Anyone that’s progressing towards a nw 6-7 should know they’re compromising density towards the back, which should be fine considering the circumstances 

[j1mmy]

1 minute ago, James C said:

If you densely graft 2500 grafts in your frontal third, those transplants will stand alone and look good without native hairs. You need to know how many grafts per sq cm gives the illusion of density. You’ll obviously favor the front. Anyone that’s progressing towards a nw 6-7 should know they’re compromising density towards the back, which should be fine considering the circumstances 

You might find such a result that looks satisfactory I agree, perhaps with the right hair caliber, colour, over 3.0 hairs/graft.

Let's assume the frontal third of a person is is 70-90cm^2. 2500 grafts standing alone gives you a density of 27-35g/cm^2.

It is not unusual to aim for 45-50^2 as a "nice coverage", and Konior has suggested 50-70g/cm^2 provides "the best coverage".

That's certainly more than 2500. Maybe the NW7 after being bald for 30 years is happy with 30g/cm, not the young guy who is struggling when his hair loss is at 60g/cm right now.

[Curious25]

36 minutes ago, j1mmy said:

Maybe the NW7 after being bald for 30 years is happy with 30g/cm, not the young guy who is struggling when his hair loss is at 60g/cm right now.

Great point. 

[Hair4Days]

3 hours ago, j1mmy said:

You might find such a result that looks satisfactory I agree, perhaps with the right hair caliber, colour, over 3.0 hairs/graft.

Let's assume the frontal third of a person is is 70-90cm^2. 2500 grafts standing alone gives you a density of 27-35g/cm^2.

It is not unusual to aim for 45-50^2 as a "nice coverage", and Konior has suggested 50-70g/cm^2 provides "the best coverage".

That's certainly more than 2500. Maybe the NW7 after being bald for 30 years is happy with 30g/cm, not the young guy who is struggling when his hair loss is at 60g/cm right now.

When grafting a zone of that size 70-90 sq cm using 2500-3000 grafts, they don’t evenly distributed the grafts. You’d prioritize the front with 50-60 grafts/ sq cm which allows for perfect styling, and then it decreases as you move back. 

As per your Konior reference, he’s told me directly a 40 graft per sq cm restoration would satisfy 95% of men. 

a young man with 60g/cm right now shouldn’t even be talking about a HT. You can’t even tell your thinning at that point. Once you fall to like 15-20 grafts/sq cm where it’s pretty damn thin you should do a Ht to avoid native hair shock loss 
 

[Melvin- Admin]

First, 

Let me start off by saying I don’t take fin. However, the vast majority of men do not experience side effects, that’s a fact. The percentage, now that’s debatable. I really don’t understand the apprehension. If you get side effects, stop taking it. 
 

Below is my story