My journey at HLC (Ankara). 3100 grafts

[Parasol]

I know we all have different goals and expectations but I just want to say I think you look great. 

From where you started to where you are at just 6 months is really incredible. 

[EvansLawrence]

46 minutes ago, Parasol said:

I know we all have different goals and expectations but I just want to say I think you look great. 

From where you started to where you are at just 6 months is really incredible. 

Thanks man. Yeah i think the surgery went good and for 6 months its fine. But I wanted to share my friend's case. As well as my thoughts for the future. 😊

[Britanium]

For the mid way point and from your starting point this looks good to me. I would wait until the 12 months is up before jumping to another procedure.

The clinic your about to choose may have a few good results on there website but that’s quite normal. I don’t like the fixed price places, to me that can be a red flag. 
Spain does have some awesome Drs you could choose instead and be 100% sure they are doing consistently good work. I’m not convinced until I have seen real patient journeys and at least quite a few of them. With the likes of De Freitas, Dr Couto, Villa & Lorenzo you could also consider if your thinking Spain in particular. Of course Portugal & Belgium have their fair share of excellent options also. Just be cautious here. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by JohnAC71

[EvansLawrence]

10 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

For the mid way point and from your starting point this looks good to me. I would wait until the 12 months is up before jumping to another procedure.

The clinic your about to choose may have a few good results on there website but that’s quite normal. I don’t like the fixed price places, to me that can be a red flag. 
Spain does have some awesome Drs you could choose instead and be 100% sure they are doing consistently good work. I’m not convinced until I have seen real patient journeys and at least quite a few of them. With the likes of De Freitas, Dr Couto, Villa & Lorenzo you could also consider if your thinking Spain in particular. Of course Portugal & Belgium have their fair share of excellent options also. Just be cautious here. 

This Dr. Daniella worked for Frietas foe 2 years as extractor surgeon. When she opened the clinic the prices were of course lower. I had an online consultation with her and the reason she gave me made a lot of sense to me. There are 3 prises. The cheap one is up to 1200 grafts, the medium up to 2500 and the expensive up to 3800 grafts. Im this way what happened to me at HLC would be avoided. In HLC they told me by email 2600 tp 3000 grafts. Then it was more and for what I wanted I should have need 4300 grafts. But didnt have the money. That sucks specially since you are already nervous the surgery day. In this way it helps.

She will be on top 3 in Spain in a few years. She is doing an amazing work.

I have been seeing many hair transplant works to know how to recognize bad jobs, medium jobs, good jobs and excellent ones. 

 

[Gasthoerer]

I have difficulties to follow this discussion.

You are at month 6 and your results seem to look good and you still have a lot of time for growth left. You hairline design IMO is perfect by the way. 

But despite waiting a little bit more, you already plan a 2nd HT with a complete newbie clinic because you think "they would have achieved more with less". Based on what? 

For me this sounds a little premature. Trust the process and give it time. Maybe there is a little touch up needed, but maybe not. I always had a lot of improvement after month 6. 

[ITA]

And in any case, I am convinced that the clinic would certainly meet @EvansLawrence if at the end of the 12 months he would not be totally happy with his result.

[EvansLawrence]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

I have difficulties to follow this discussion.

You are at month 6 and your results seem to look good and you still have a lot of time for growth left. You hairline design IMO is perfect by the way. 

But despite waiting a little bit more, you already plan a 2nd HT with a complete newbie clinic because you think "they would have achieved more with less". Based on what? 

For me this sounds a little premature. Trust the process and give it time. Maybe there is a little touch up needed, but maybe not. I always had a lot of improvement after month 6. 

Hey. I am planning to close the temples and maybe lowering the hairline just a little bit. About half centimitre maximum. ( I would estimate between 1000 ans 1200 grafts maybe) Of course I would not do it now. At earliest at month 12th. But if I want to go to the clinic I mentioned I need to book already since the waiting list is about 6 months. And is not just because I think they would have achieved more. Is because it is in my own country (I live now in Finland but I am from Spain) and I really like the work this Dr is doing. I trust my current density will improve, but those places where no hair was implanted nothing will grow. 

About HLC I am dissapointed but not by my case, but because of a colleague I met there. That is what I wanted to mention. He was not in condition to have a hair trasplant and they did it anyway. The clinic I mention in Spain the surgeons are also tricologyst. Therefore they wont operate if there is a bad condition on the scalp. And if they are not sure they will try with a small amount like 100 grafts to see how it evolves.

[Gasthoerer]

I fully understand the desire for perfection, but this is a marathon not a sprint.

Looking at your 2 and 3 weeks post OP pics, density in the temples looks fine. I think the immediate post OP pics may mislead you.

What I also see is a possible thinning in other areas (in the bridge and crown) on this pics. Your are still young. Bringing you hairline further down in the best case might give you a 5 % improvement now, when you are a little older this benefit might go to zero. A lower hairline also requires a higher density and therefore higher risk for failure. Plus: If you run out of grafts later this outweighs by far the potential benefits of the lower hairline. 

It is also great that your new secret wonder clinic is also a tricologyst and maybe in 5 years this is the worlds top clinic ( I am not denying this possibility) ... or maybe not cause they make terrible hairlines (which is an art in itself). 

I wish you all the best. 

 

[EvansLawrence]

45 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

I fully understand the desire for perfection, but this is a marathon not a sprint.

Looking at your 2 and 3 weeks post OP pics, density in the temples looks fine. I think the immediate post OP pics may mislead you.

What I also see is a possible thinning in other areas (in the bridge and crown) on this pics. Your are still young. Bringing you hairline further down in the best case might give you a 5 % improvement now, when you are a little older this benefit might go to zero. A lower hairline also requires a higher density and therefore higher risk for failure. Plus: If you run out of grafts later this outweighs by far the potential benefits of the lower hairline. 

It is also great that your new secret wonder clinic is also a tricologyst and maybe in 5 years this is the worlds top clinic ( I am not denying this possibility) ... or maybe not cause they make terrible hairlines (which is an art in itself). 

I wish you all the best. 

 

Yes. Your advise is a good one. Infact is the exact same they told me in HLC. I am not making the judgemt by the post op pics, but by my every day looking in the mirror.

I if I take now, lets go higher and say 1500 grafts, then I would still have another 4500 grafts in reserve according to the estimation in HLC. I think it will be more than enough. Plus I am now on finasteride which I never took before so I should be able to keep myself out of any other surgery longer.

I know I am seeking perfection. But that is just how I am.

And btw. This other surgery I could do it in Spain or in HLC again. But I believe it will be Spain.

[Fernand]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:28 PM, EvansLawrence said:

Yes. Your advise is a good one. Infact is the exact same they told me in HLC. I am not making the judgemt by the post op pics, but by my every day looking in the mirror.

I if I take now, lets go higher and say 1500 grafts, then I would still have another 4500 grafts in reserve according to the estimation in HLC. I think it will be more than enough. Plus I am now on finasteride which I never took before so I should be able to keep myself out of any other surgery longer.

I know I am seeking perfection. But that is just how I am.

And btw. This other surgery I could do it in Spain or in HLC again. But I believe it will be Spain.

Hi there, may I know what happened to your colleague? Is the one who had a previous transplant and had a special condition on his that needed treatment? Also, was the condition visible to the eye? Thank you.

[MachoVato]

As I see it, your hair is already looking quite good, especially for only 6 months. You will get more improvements everywhere, I have no doubt.

I too wish I could have lowered my hairline and closed my temples even more. Truth is, at my age (50) it's actually pretty aggressive. But there is no way to really know how it will look after 12 months when we're sitting in the chair with shaved hair and marker lines on our head. We make the best decision we can and agree to it. 

In my experience, they were quite ethical. I asked for my crown to be included but they advised against it because I was already at the 4000 graft mark. They could have taken more money, and I would have paid it. But they convinced me to do 2 procedures.

I don't know about your friend. I'd like to see those pictures. To be clear, not being a trichologist doesn't disqualify an experienced clinic from recognizing a compromised scalp. And certainly, a trichologist isn't automatically a great HT surgeon.  

I wish you the best outcome on your transplant. No matter where you go for your second one. 👍

Edited August 14, 2021 by MachoVato

[Fernand]

31 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

As I see it, your hair is already looking quite good, especially for only 6 months. You will get more improvements everywhere, I have no doubt.

I too wish I could have lowered my hairline and closed my temples even more. Truth is, at my age (50) it's actually pretty aggressive. But there is no way to really know how it will look after 12 months when we're sitting in the chair with shaved hair and marker lines on our head. We make the best decision we can and agree to it. 

In my experience, they were quite ethical. I asked for my crown to be included but they advised against it because I was already at the 4000 graft mark. They could have taken more money, and I would have paid it. But they convinced me to do 2 procedures.

I don't know about your friend. I'd like to see those pictures. A trichologist may not have aborted the procedure, no telling. 

I wish you the best outcome on your transplant. No matter where you go for your second one. 👍

To be honest, for someone who’s lurking, this is reassuring.

OP keeps mentioning about this friend/colleague but what has actually happened? Also, what does HLC say about him? You mentioned your other friends had a bad result, is it?

[EvansLawrence]

7 hours ago, MachoVato said:

As I see it, your hair is already looking quite good, especially for only 6 months. You will get more improvements everywhere, I have no doubt.

I too wish I could have lowered my hairline and closed my temples even more. Truth is, at my age (50) it's actually pretty aggressive. But there is no way to really know how it will look after 12 months when we're sitting in the chair with shaved hair and marker lines on our head. We make the best decision we can and agree to it. 

In my experience, they were quite ethical. I asked for my crown to be included but they advised against it because I was already at the 4000 graft mark. They could have taken more money, and I would have paid it. But they convinced me to do 2 procedures.

I don't know about your friend. I'd like to see those pictures. To be clear, not being a trichologist doesn't disqualify an experienced clinic from recognizing a compromised scalp. And certainly, a trichologist isn't automatically a great HT surgeon.  

I wish you the best outcome on your transplant. No matter where you go for your second one. 👍

Yes. I agree with that. I want to clarify that I dont think HLC is a bad clinic. I believe is one of the best in turkey. Truth is I now dont find it as excellent as I thought before. Not a 9.5 or 10/10. More like 8 or 8.5.

I will stop talking about colleagues because I have no permission from then sharing his pics or ways to prove what I say is true. Although if they share it somewhere I could refer the links.

What I would advise is: if you plan to go to HLC or maybe any other clinic, visit a trichologist first at least 6 months before the surgery and tell them about the procedure in case u need to take previous steps. 

[EvansLawrence]

month 8 (almost)

almost at the end of the recovery.

So far my personal feelings: its better than before, no doubt about it. Very natural. Although for me it didnt worth it. 8000€ and 3150 grafts that look more like 2200 or 2500.

Still very conservative line. I have a day for surgery in Spain with Dra. Cotellesa on January to close better the temples and maybe lower the hairline a little bit.

 

Am I being perfectionist? Yes

Am I in my right to be perfectionist? Ofcourse

Were my expectations in HLC fulfilled based on the videos they post? Definitely not

 

Just my thought process.

You are free to think what you want

Edited October 6, 2021 by EvansLawrence

[Britanium]

Did you also consider Dr De Freitas? Stunning work and also based in Spain. 

[EvansLawrence]

I would add I believe the donnor could have been treated better. It is a good donnor still, but for an elite clinic I would have expected the white dots a little bit more separated. I see many so together they form lines.

[EvansLawrence]

3 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Did you also consider Dr De Freitas? Stunning work and also based in Spain. 

Cotellessa worked with Freitas 2 years as extractor. In my opinion she is better. Just that Freitas has more popularity, fame and experience.

[Britanium]

Just now, EvansLawrence said:

Cotellessa worked with Freitas 2 years as extractor. In my opinion she is better. Just that Freitas has more popularity, fame and experience.

I can’t remember seeing any of her results, but recognised the name 👍🏽

[EvansLawrence]

2 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

I can’t remember seeing any of her results, but recognised the name 👍🏽

She has been with Freitas about 2 years, then about other 2 at clinica Zira, and now last month she opened her new clinic Cotellessa-Awada, im Valencia. She is very very promising

[Britanium]

Just now, EvansLawrence said:

She has been with Freitas about 2 years, then about other 2 at clinica Zira, and now last month she opened her new clinic Cotellessa-Awada, im Valencia. She is very very promising

Very interesting 🤨 definitely one to follow ! Be good to have another option. What are her rates like per graft ? 

[massman]

10 hours ago, EvansLawrence said:

month 8 (almost)

almost at the end of the recovery.

So far my personal feelings: its better than before, no doubt about it. Very natural. Although for me it didnt worth it. 8000€ and 3150 grafts that look more like 2200 or 2500.

Still very conservative line. I have a day for surgery in Spain with Dra. Cotellesa on January to close better the temples and maybe lower the hairline a little bit.

 

Am I being perfectionist? Yes

Am I in my right to be perfectionist? Ofcourse

Were my expectations in HLC fulfilled based on the videos they post? Definitely not

 

Just my thought process.

You are free to think what you want

You're not right in being a perfectionist. If you went into this expecting to come out with the same luscious hairline you had as a 16 year old after one HT then you were always going to be disappointed. It's 99% certain that you're not going to get the same look and density you had pre hairloss.

You're also still only at 8 months, and from your pictures I see notable improvements from month 5. Give it until month 12 and see how you look then.

Being a perfectionist myself I know the mental turmoil of obsessively looking at details, so I do empathise with you. But with this you just have to understand the parameters of what's possible and adjust your expectations accordingly. It's hard to do, but it'll make you feel a a whole lot better.

[Gasthoerer]

Maybe, the pictures do not reflect the reality, as there are a little blurry. But for me it looks amazing, both recipient and donor. Perfectionist or not, it appears (!) to be as good of a result as anyone can expect and I have seen. 

[giegnosiganoe]

I agree with the others above. Curious how short did you cut your donor?

[massman]

49 minutes ago, giegnosiganoe said:

I agree with the others above. Curious how short did you cut your donor?

This is another thing. One of the most common misconceptions about FUE is that it's 'scarless' surgery. It's not, and if you shave your head to Grade 0.5 as it looks like EvansLawrence has, you're going to see tiny scars. Of course, anything 1.5/2 and above and the scars are near imperceptible. With longer hair (but still short), you can't see at all. And don't forget it's much better than the strip scar you get with FUT.

Edited October 7, 2021 by massman

[A Fue Good Men]

@EvansLawrencewhich doctor at hlc did your extractions?