Should I Rub Minoxidil Liquid Or Not?

[Leftwithrope]

Hey guys,

I started applying 5% minoxidil solution to my scalp recently and would like to know if it is advisable to massage the liquid into my scalp.

I was not able to find any conclusive answers from Google about this and would like to hear from experienced users.

Should I leave the treated area wet or is it best to rub it in vigorously?

Thanks in advance!

@Melvin-Moderator @gillenator 

 

[ciaus]

No need to rub it in vigorously, I stopped using it due to unrelated skin conditions that made my skin more sensitive and prone to irritation. But when I did use it I would have the dobber in one hand dispensing the drops, and then with my other hand gently rub my index and middle fingers around that immediate area to keep it from running all over,  guiding and lightly patting to encourage soaking into that targeted area.

[Melvin- Admin]

I personally do rub it into the scalp, to ensure it’s not getting superficially in my hair, as opposed to my scalp.

[gillenator]

It certainly won't hurt to massage it in the area especially the crown but no need to rub it vigorously, only to keep it from running down the scalp...the liquid form in itself will absorb and why it is a good idea to apply it before bedtime.

Also, some guys have elected to use the 5% foam version as it is easier to apply and some find it not as messy.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

5 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

Hey guys,

I started applying 5% minoxidil solution to my scalp recently and would like to know if it is advisable to massage the liquid into my scalp.

I was not able to find any conclusive answers from Google about this and would like to hear from experienced users.

Should I leave the treated area wet or is it best to rub it in vigorously?

Thanks in advance!

@Melvin-Moderator @gillenator 

 

Unlike hair oils or serums, it is a medicated liquid. For the application, light application over the scalp is sufficient. Rubbing the liquid onto the scalp vigorously is not required. It will dry up by itself.

[gillenator]

If you read the inactive ingredients listed on the package, you will see that most of the additives will facilitate the absorption of the liquid into the scalp.

[Leftwithrope]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all your responses.

I've decided to leave my scalp damp with the application. I do some rubbing just to ensure that it doesn't drip down onto my face.

Also, how viable is the idea of getting a transplant if I'm sick of using minoxidil to support minoxidil-dependent hair?

I would imagine I would have to take a break for a period of time to allow these hairs to shed in order for the doctor to have a better picture of the treatment area.

I'm thinking of visiting India again for the transplant if this is a sound idea.

Regards,

Sean

[ciaus]

4 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

Also, how viable is the idea of getting a transplant if I'm sick of using minoxidil to support minoxidil-dependent hair?

 

While minoxidil does make your hair thicker and have longer growth cycles, it doesn't block DHT, which is what causes most of the hair loss for most guys. If you are already taking a DHT blocker like finasteride, that's the one you should worry about quitting. Once a hair follicle has been completely ravaged by DHT all the minoxidil in the world won't be able to save it.

Some guys do try the hair transplant journey without any meds, and its definitely more risky in terms of your long term results. You have to weigh factors like how old you are, how aggressive your loss has been, family history, how dense your donor area is.

[Leftwithrope]

10 hours ago, ciaus said:

 

While minoxidil does make your hair thicker and have longer growth cycles, it doesn't block DHT, which is what causes most of the hair loss for most guys. If you are already taking a DHT blocker like finasteride, that's the one you should worry about quitting. Once a hair follicle has been completely ravaged by DHT all the minoxidil in the world won't be able to save it.

Some guys do try the hair transplant journey without any meds, and its definitely more risky in terms of your long term results. You have to weigh factors like how old you are, how aggressive your loss has been, family history, how dense your donor area is.

Hey Ciaus,

I've been on propecia for close to 2 years and it's worked well at preventing further loss as well as provide some regrowth. 

The oral minoxidil I took in the past has helped to thicken up the regrown hairs which by themselves aren't as strong as my healthy hairs.

I have now switched to 5% topical minoxidil twice daily and what I hate about it is that I can't see how I can use dermmatch with it.

I do feel that minoxidil is best used with finasteride, as there is both a regrowth and anti-androgen factor. I'm always surprised to see people get stellar results from minoxidil monotherapy. 

 

[ciaus]

48 minutes ago, Leftwithrope said:

I have now switched to 5% topical minoxidil twice daily and what I hate about it is that I can't see how I can use dermmatch with it.

I do feel that minoxidil is best used with finasteride, as there is both a regrowth and anti-androgen factor. I'm always surprised to see people get stellar results from minoxidil monotherapy. 

You should try the foam minoxidil if you haven't, though the more hair you have the more careful you have to be when applying it, parting and moving your hair to expose as much scalp as possible in each spot, because it does absorb and dry real quick, potentially even into your hairs before it reaches your scalp.

[Leftwithrope]

I guess the foam wouldn't be more convenient as there's still plenty of hair where I'm applying the solution, weaker as they might be.

I'm still curious as to whether the idea of getting a transplant for the sake of going off minoxidil would be a sound idea.

 

[ciaus]

12 hours ago, Leftwithrope said:

I guess the foam wouldn't be more convenient as there's still plenty of hair where I'm applying the solution, weaker as they might be.

I'm still curious as to whether the idea of getting a transplant for the sake of going off minoxidil would be a sound idea.

 

I don't want to make applying the foam sound harder than it is or impossible.

 

Finasteride and minox are like brakes in the hairloss process, more or less slowing it down depending on your genetics. Finasteride is the far more important of the two, since its doing the heavy lifting of protecting the hairs from DHT, so that the minoxidil has something to even work with. But since Finasteride doesn't block all DHT, over time you'll likely continue to lose some as your body chemistry changes from aging and the continuing assault of the remaining DHT that does still circulate.

 

The younger you are, the more important the brake system is, and since hairloss is a lifelong process I would argue brakes will always be a valuable and welcome thing to have where possible.

 

In your case, since you are already willing to apply the minoxidil daily (alot of guys are just too lazy), you should give the foam a try using one hand to part/spread/lift the hair while rubbing the foam into your scalp with the other hand for a few months. Even if some of your hairs are still in the way, they are not going to absorb all that minoxidil.

 

The alternative is cutting into your head and moving hairs around to give you the fuller appearance that the minoxidil is still able to currently do -and that's never a guarantee, there's always a yield risk inherent in any procedure where something(s) can go wrong and a substantial number of grafts fail to take root. And then there are the things that are guaranteed -having less donor hair which leaves less for reacting/planning/procedures down the road, and of course the financial cost.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by ciaus

[Leftwithrope]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:20 AM, ciaus said:

I don't want to make applying the foam sound harder than it is or impossible.

 

Finasteride and minox are like brakes in the hairloss process, more or less slowing it down depending on your genetics. Finasteride is the far more important of the two, since its doing the heavy lifting of protecting the hairs from DHT, so that the minoxidil has something to even work with. But since Finasteride doesn't block all DHT, over time you'll likely continue to lose some as your body chemistry changes from aging and the continuing assault of the remaining DHT that does still circulate.

 

The younger you are, the more important the brake system is, and since hairloss is a lifelong process I would argue brakes will always be a valuable and welcome thing to have where possible.

 

In your case, since you are already willing to apply the minoxidil daily (alot of guys are just too lazy), you should give the foam a try using one hand to part/spread/lift the hair while rubbing the foam into your scalp with the other hand for a few months. Even if some of your hairs are still in the way, they are not going to absorb all that minoxidil.

 

The alternative is cutting into your head and moving hairs around to give you the fuller appearance that the minoxidil is still able to currently do -and that's never a guarantee, there's always a yield risk inherent in any procedure where something(s) can go wrong and a substantial number of grafts fail to take root. And then there are the things that are guaranteed -having less donor hair which leaves less for reacting/planning/procedures down the road, and of course the financial cost.

 

Hey Ciaus,

Thank you for the informative response.

You've really convinced me to give the foam a try. 

Would switching from foam to liquid usually trigger shedding? I've seen on forums elsewhere that some people experience shedding when they switch their solution/foam to the other.

Regards,

Sean

[gillenator]

I experienced a drastic shed that lasted for  3-4 months when I switched from liquid to 5% foam!

[ciaus]

Hey Sean, and then the Gillenator came along with a worse case anecdote and all is darkness again.

So reading his reply it certainly seems to be a possibility -though I'm not sure how much of a learning curve and difficulty he had effectively applying the foam when he first switched, which may have lead to or at least contributed to his shedding.  Maybe he'll come back and comment on that.

 

Personally, I jumped on fin and minox as soon as I started to notice the first hints of loss so that may be why I never had any dramatic sheds, and I had to stop the topical minox about a year in due to skin conditions and irritation.

 

Something else you can do, if you don't already, is to apply the foam when your scalp is dry but your hair is still a little damp (not dripping wet) so that it has less absorbing capacity. And when its already a little damp the hairs naturally clump together exposing more of your scalp area making it easier for the foam to make that direct skin contact.

Hopefully you are in a work from home scenario during the lockdown, or you can conceal your head with a hat or something just in case while you do the switch.

[LonelyGraft]

1 hour ago, gillenator said:

I experienced a drastic shed that lasted for  3-4 months when I switched from liquid to 5% foam!

Did u recover tho?

[Leftwithrope]

5 hours ago, ciaus said:

Hey Sean, and then the Gillenator came along with a worse case anecdote and all is darkness again.

So reading his reply it certainly seems to be a possibility -though I'm not sure how much of a learning curve and difficulty he had effectively applying the foam when he first switched, which may have lead to or at least contributed to his shedding.  Maybe he'll come back and comment on that.

 

Personally, I jumped on fin and minox as soon as I started to notice the first hints of loss so that may be why I never had any dramatic sheds, and I had to stop the topical minox about a year in due to skin conditions and irritation.

 

Something else you can do, if you don't already, is to apply the foam when your scalp is dry but your hair is still a little damp (not dripping wet) so that it has less absorbing capacity. And when its already a little damp the hairs naturally clump together exposing more of your scalp area making it easier for the foam to make that direct skin contact.

Hopefully you are in a work from home scenario during the lockdown, or you can conceal your head with a hat or something just in case while you do the switch.

Yikes!

Some people apply foam in the morning and liquid at night. I'm thinking that might reduce the chance of a bad shed.

Honestly, I'm not digging applying minoxidil every day. I am contemplating going off it in the near future and just get a 800-1000 graft transplant to thicken up the area. 

I'm just not sure if surgeons are willing to transplant into my existing thin hairs. There's plenty of them but without minoxidil, I doubt they'll be of cosmetic effect.

What do you guys think?

 

[gillenator]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:52 PM, LonelyGraft said:

Did u recover tho?

Yes I did recover however the whole process took almost 9 months before enough new hair growth covered the barren area.

[gillenator]

Worst case anecdote?...I had no difficulty applying the foam as my crown area is thin to begin with and I made sure as the foam dissipated that the product was applied to the scalp surface.

My premonition is that it's because the liquid version is soaked into the area immediately and more thoroughly...anyone who has used both liquid and foam knows that....so maybe its because the foam does not saturate the scalp surface as well...who knows?

I also found that the foam version is more expensive to use in the long run.

[elduterino]

the foam dries fast I do rub it quite thoroughly because it won't penetrate once its dry. I do use nitrile gloves to do that though, because it does reduce systemic absorption. Minox does affect/reduces collagen production.

I use larger size "mechanic" gloves which are thicker than regular ones and those can be used many times over

[LonelyGraft]

6 hours ago, gillenator said:

Yes I did recover however the whole process took almost 9 months before enough new hair growth covered the barren area.

So it made u shed to the point of bare scalp in certain areas?

[LonelyGraft]

6 hours ago, gillenator said:

Worst case anecdote?...I had no difficulty applying the foam as my crown area is thin to begin with and I made sure as the foam dissipated that the product was applied to the scalp surface.

My premonition is that it's because the liquid version is soaked into the area immediately and more thoroughly...anyone who has used both liquid and foam knows that....so maybe its because the foam does not saturate the scalp surface as well...who knows?

I also found that the foam version is more expensive to use in the long run.

There was a well known doctor and pharmacologist (dr Peter proctor) that claimed a component of the minoxidil liquid, propylene glycol specifically, is responsible for at least some growth. He referenced some study where minoxidil liquid vs a placebo that just had the vehicle ingredients showed that even the placebo treatment had growth in participants.

 

funny enough the foam doesn’t contain this ingredient

[gillenator]

On 9/5/2020 at 2:14 AM, LonelyGraft said:

So it made u shed to the point of bare scalp in certain areas?

No it did not make me shed to a bare scalp but it did thin out my crown extensively to the point whereby you could see lots more of my scalp than before.

[gillenator]

On 9/5/2020 at 2:17 AM, LonelyGraft said:

There was a well known doctor and pharmacologist (dr Peter proctor) that claimed a component of the minoxidil liquid, propylene glycol specifically, is responsible for at least some growth. He referenced some study where minoxidil liquid vs a placebo that just had the vehicle ingredients showed that even the placebo treatment had growth in participants.

 

funny enough the foam doesn’t contain this ingredient

My understanding was that many of these derivatives labeled in the inactive ingredients were to facilitate the absorption rate into the scalp, not for any growth.

[LonelyGraft]

8 hours ago, gillenator said:

My understanding was that many of these derivatives labeled in the inactive ingredients were to facilitate the absorption rate into the scalp, not for any growth.

Correct, so that came as a surprise to many when the placebo group had a decent amount of growth compared to the minox group from what was explained