Beard hair on the scalp

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

1. The beard hair is coarse (wiry) and thicker in calibre than scalp hair.

2. The beard hair grafts are all single folliles.

3. The beard hair tend to stick away from each other. Unlike scalp hair that cluster together.

4. The inability to cluster together results in a lesser visible density on the areas where purely beard hair are transplanted.

5. The beard hair are usually used as fillers along with scalp hair. This helps in providing coverahe as well as avoiding a low density look.

6. The beard hair take time to attain length unlike scalp hair. Sometimes the beard hair could have a faster speed of growth than the scalp hair but even then it takes time to attain length.

7. When the entire density is achieved and the hair are grown, there is no visual difference in the hair texture or hair or hair calibre. 

8. When one runs his hands through his hair, one can feel the difference between the scalp and beard hair. The scalp hair are silkier than beard hair.

9. Hair products can be used to style the hair and it won't cause harm to the beard hair. Infact, it can make it easier to manage and style the hair suppressing it's wiry quality and coarseness.

10. Beard hair can appear to be frizzy and directionless and have a.mind of their own sometimes. For people with beard donor usage, styling and a suitable hairstyle can help greatly.

[InterventionalPDoc]

Good points, I have always found it interesting that beard hair seem to settle away from each other. That could help with creating volume though esp when used a filler 

[giegnosiganoe]

Can you explain why "3. The beard hair tend to stick away from each other."?

[Sean]

Depends on the caliber of the hair as well.  If you take finasteride, then it is not be an option to utilize beard or body hair due to shedding.  the growth cycles are different if it yields in general.  In general, the yield isnt that of scalp hair.  May be good to fill in strip scars or some crowns etc.
 

Growth and yield are entirely different with some surgeons too that extract beard and other hairs. If you really need it, go with a surgeon that has success with it in minimal grafts utilization.  Example Dr A may only require 2000 grafts, Dr B may require 4000 grafts, Dr C & D may require 6 to 10,000 grafts Or more.  In the end, the yield with Dr A or Dr B may be greater then those that utilized more.  The more you go back into the chair and develop scar tissue the more challenging it may become to impact the area again.  

Good points made though.

[mustang]

Point number 3 is addressing the natural direction of the graft.

 

Regardless, I have implanted over 2.500 BHT in my scalp and I can't even tell which are which

[giegnosiganoe]

47 minutes ago, mustang said:

Point number 3 is addressing the natural direction of the graft.

 

Regardless, I have implanted over 2.500 BHT in my scalp and I can't even tell which are which

Is it just harder to determine the correct angle to place the hair?

How many of each type of BHT for those 2500? Was the BHT caliber close to your scalp hair?

[Curious25]

Do Eugenix believe that it will soon be acknowledged that a more optimum utilisation of beard grafts would be using them to replenish a purposely over harvested scalp donor? 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

17 hours ago, InterventionalPDoc said:

Good points, I have always found it interesting that beard hair seem to settle away from each other. That could help with creating volume though esp when used a filler 

True. It is difficult for purely beard hair transplanted areas to appear dense.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

16 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Can you explain why "3. The beard hair tend to stick away from each other."?

The beard hair are coarse and wiry. The follicles tend to stray away all over the place. Unlike scalp hair which stay put when combed or styled. Beard hair are more tedious in management.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

11 hours ago, Sean said:

Depends on the caliber of the hair as well.  If you take finasteride, then it is not be an option to utilize beard or body hair due to shedding.  the growth cycles are different if it yields in general.  In general, the yield isnt that of scalp hair.  May be good to fill in strip scars or some crowns etc.
 

Growth and yield are entirely different with some surgeons too that extract beard and other hairs. If you really need it, go with a surgeon that has success with it in minimal grafts utilization.  Example Dr A may only require 2000 grafts, Dr B may require 4000 grafts, Dr C & D may require 6 to 10,000 grafts Or more.  In the end, the yield with Dr A or Dr B may be greater then those that utilized more.  The more you go back into the chair and develop scar tissue the more challenging it may become to impact the area again.  

Good points made though.

Finasteride has not got enough strength to affect the beard hair growth! People who are taking Finasteride tablets for ages must not have beard!!  
Dr Pradeep Sethi
MD 
Eugenix Hair Sciences

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

10 hours ago, mustang said:

Point number 3 is addressing the natural direction of the graft.

 

Regardless, I have implanted over 2.500 BHT in my scalp and I can't even tell which are which

Awesome. You're lucky to have a good beard hair quality and calibre. People with silkier beard hair or more manageable beard hair obviously have an added advantage. But it is subjective from person to person. 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

9 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Is it just harder to determine the correct angle to place the hair?

How many of each type of BHT for those 2500? Was the BHT caliber close to your scalp hair?

Usually beard hair are used as fillers in the natural angles mimicked from their natural angulation. No beard hair are to be used in the hairline or crown. 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

10 hours ago, mustang said:

Point number 3 is addressing the natural direction of the graft.

 

Regardless, I have implanted over 2.500 BHT in my scalp and I can't even tell which are which

Please share some pictures also. It would be amazing to see your hair.

[Sean]

19 minutes ago, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

Finasteride has not got enough strength to affect the beard hair growth! People who are taking Finasteride tablets for ages must not have beard!!  
Dr Pradeep Sethi
MD 
Eugenix Hair Sciences

Dr Sethi, 

there are other doctors that mentioned finasteride may cause issues with beard and body hairs.  I was told not to take it by Dr Umar.  
 

ISHRS also mentioned something similar-

Source of screenshot: https://ishrs.org/patients/treatments-for-hair-loss/medications/finasteride/

 

Does it impact slowing down growth cycles?  Thanks for your response.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

6 hours ago, Sean said:

Dr Sethi, 

there are other doctors that mentioned finasteride may cause issues with beard and body hairs.  I was told not to take it by Dr Umar.  
 

ISHRS also mentioned something similar-

Source of screenshot: https://ishrs.org/patients/treatments-for-hair-loss/medications/finasteride/

 

Does it impact slowing down growth cycles?  Thanks for your response.

In our experience of about 11 years, we haven't noticed the visual loss of beard hair transplanted on the scalp of those taking Finasteride regularly. Infact, we would highly encourage patients to take Fiansteride to maintain their growth. 

For people who feel they have side effects with Finasteride like erectile dysfuntion, decreased libido, decreased sperm count, etc Finasteride is not continued. Like you have chosen not to take it.

Even of there is an adverse effect on body or beard hair, it is insignificant. In our experience we have never seen beard hair or body hair diminish with the use of this medication.

[Sean]

3 hours ago, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

In our experience of about 11 years, we haven't noticed the visual loss of beard hair transplanted on the scalp of those taking Finasteride regularly. Infact, we would highly encourage patients to take Fiansteride to maintain their growth. 

For people who feel they have side effects with Finasteride like erectile dysfuntion, decreased libido, decreased sperm count, etc Finasteride is not continued. Like you have chosen not to take it.

Even of there is an adverse effect on body or beard hair, it is insignificant. In our experience we have never seen beard hair or body hair diminish with the use of this medication.

What percentage of growth yield do you have with body hair?  If you take our 500 beard grafts, 500 chest, 500 nape hair grafts.  For each category, how much yield does your practice usually attain?  Is it 100%, 90%, 80%,70%, or another number?  

 

again, the doctor that used nape, chest, beard hairs advised me not to take finasteride.  It’s something I was informed of after my surgery.  I was using it prior to this surgery.  In any case my scalp looks worse now.  Seems like the grafting damaged my previously transplanted hairs as well.  It actually looks bad and I am trying to get out of this situation.  I have some ridging, cobblestoning now more as well.  

thanks for the response.  

[mustang]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

What percentage of growth yield do you have with body hair?  If you take our 500 beard grafts, 500 chest, 500 nape hair grafts.  For each category, how much yield does your practice usually attain?  Is it 100%, 90%, 80%,70%, or another number?  

 

again, the doctor that used nape, chest, beard hairs advised me not to take finasteride.  It’s something I was informed of after my surgery.  I was using it prior to this surgery.  In any case my scalp looks worse now.  Seems like the grafting damaged my previously transplanted hairs as well.  It actually looks bad and I am trying to get out of this situation.  I have some ridging, cobblestoning now more as well.  

thanks for the response.  

A good surgeon extracting with no transection and preserving the grafts on ATP solution should yield the same % as any other graft.

I had 50 grafts from Dr Mwamba from my body into a small depleted zone and all of them grew.

I know you are not asking me but I take dutasteride and no, it does not affect them. This is quite a farfetched statement from your Dr.

Just look the huge amount of men who are balding, take dutasteride and have huge beards.

[LonelyGraft]

If beard hair has so many drawbacks, why does eugenix seem to utilize it in most of their surgeries rather than depleting the traditional donor first?

[mustang]

Because it doesn't.

[Curious25]

22 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Do Eugenix believe that it will soon be acknowledged that a more optimum utilisation of beard grafts would be using them to replenish a purposely over harvested scalp donor? 

No response ? 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:12 PM, Curious25 said:

Do Eugenix believe that it will soon be acknowledged that a more optimum utilisation of beard grafts would be using them to replenish a purposely over harvested scalp donor? 

No. The beard grafts can be of different calibre in different people. Not everybody has the same coarseness or density or calibre. The doctor has to determine what is the best possible course and donor candidacy in each case.

The problem is that everybody wants a generalised answer that would make it simpler for people to understand and have one measurement on the scale for everyone. Well, unforunately thats not the case. 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 8/20/2020 at 9:26 AM, Sean said:

What percentage of growth yield do you have with body hair?  If you take our 500 beard grafts, 500 chest, 500 nape hair grafts.  For each category, how much yield does your practice usually attain?  Is it 100%, 90%, 80%,70%, or another number?  

 

again, the doctor that used nape, chest, beard hairs advised me not to take finasteride.  It’s something I was informed of after my surgery.  I was using it prior to this surgery.  In any case my scalp looks worse now.  Seems like the grafting damaged my previously transplanted hairs as well.  It actually looks bad and I am trying to get out of this situation.  I have some ridging, cobblestoning now more as well.  

thanks for the response.  

The hair from the chest has very low survival rate. Its not just about "our clinic". The physiology of the grafts and their strength do not change from clinic to clinic. The survivability of the chest grafts would be less than 50%. Sometimes none at all. The hair from the thighs, arms, etc have impossible chances of survival on the scalp. Pubic hair can survive upto 70%. 

But again, all of the above is subjective from person to person. There is the cost criteria for evaluating the candidacy of the donor area for each individual. 

The beard survival rate is 70 to 100% depending from person to person.

That is why the patient must make an informed decision before opting for the donor areas proposed. The patient must know the real number and facts.

And thats why its important to be blunt about things rather than ovwrpromise or sugarcoat. Anyway it is an elective procedure.

We prescribe Finasteride to everyone. If they are willing to take it and if they don't feel the side effects. 

If they don't then they will require to go for the procedure again.

Like in your case, you seem to have encountered certain issues with the results. But thats what we must understand. Just because it happened to you, does not mean that it will happen to everyone. It cannot be generalised.

Also, I can tell you why we prescribe Finasteride and what kind of experiences we habe had with it's use.

Your doctor's opinion on Finasteride, his experience with the medication, his procedure on your scalp an his decision to uae grafts from different parts of your body, all the while believing that you will not be able to take Finasteride; is for him to answer. I'd be quite interested to know his experience with the medication.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:18 PM, transplantedphil said:

why not the crown?

Because the whorl in the crown comprises of an array of angles. The hair form a circular ring. If beard hair are transplanted there then because of the haywire and haphazard growth, the correct angulation cannot be achieved. 

For people who have ansolutely no donor and are open to using beard grafts in the crown, they must be prepared for a blunt coverage and not an artistic crown. The lucky ones with silky beard hair might see some angulation.

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:35 PM, LonelyGraft said:

If beard hair has so many drawbacks, why does eugenix seem to utilize it in most of their surgeries rather than depleting the traditional donor first?

The above article is not to highlight the drawbacks of the beard donor. It is to state what can be expected and what can't. For people who would not want to use beard, we don't. But for people who want to use beard, we use them intelligently or depending on the case at hand.

Also, people are nitpicky, non satisfied and extremely body dismorphic in which case its best they don't have a transplant at all. It is better for the organisation's piece of mind. 

[Curious25]

7 hours ago, Gabreille Nelson Mukhia said:

No. The beard grafts can be of different calibre in different people. Not everybody has the same coarseness or density or calibre. The doctor has to determine what is the best possible course and donor candidacy in each case.

The problem is that everybody wants a generalised answer that would make it simpler for people to understand and have one measurement on the scale for everyone. Well, unforunately thats not the case. 

Thankyou for your response. I appreciate that each patient needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis, and there is no 'one shoe fits all' school of thought, however I think this is relevant for all areas involved within hair restoration. 

My question was more towards identifying whether Eugenix believe replenishing the scalps donor region with beard grafts, rather than using them as fillers for the recipient zone, is an approved, and good methodology, which would allow for greater use and depletion of native scalp donor for balding recipient sites. 

In essence, enabling the patient to optimise their scalp donor to its full capacity and beyond. 

Thanks