Senior Member .. Posted November 4, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hang in there bro, wait another couple of months and Assess the situation again then. hopefully it will all come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Severn Posted November 4, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 4, 2009 John: While you are waiting for more results to come in, could you possibly customize your haircut a bit? By this I mean specifically grow the hair around the scar long enough to cover it, while cutting the top short enough to make it natural looking My Hair Loss Web Site - Dr. Ron Shapiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 and you really have to wait a full year or two to see if the density will match. If not, than you can always go for another pass...IMHO... Nice hair Badhairuk...congrats.. Just a thought from the peanut gallery..[/quote Kaounis, Thanks for the suggestion, but another pass? I've had my first Ht in june of 08, and pretty much have been living under a hat ever since. You see how much of my hair is native, so to go through another ht ( that will make 3 for an area that should have took 2000 fu's at best). Now, to worry about shock loss, staple removal, scar stretching, and worst of all 13 months to know if it is a failure or not. That will be 3 years from my first Ht.By Then I'll have more MPB. Thanks for the concern, but no thanks. I may do a small FUE to hide my scar, so I can cut my hair short, but I really can't see myself going through another Ht without a couple year break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member kaounis Posted November 4, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 4, 2009 I hear you, it was just a sugestion...When I had my first HT, I swore I would never go through one again....but...18 months later, I )was back in the chair for round 2...My point is that how you feel today may not be how you feel tomorow...I really wish you all the best...but personally, I don't think you really should be all that worried, I think you will have great growth...I looked a lot worse than you at 7 months after my first HT, at 18 months, it was like I had a different head of hair...and I'm not bull*%$#ing you.... Just a thought from the peanut gallery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Irish-1 Posted November 5, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi John! My advice, take deep breath and relax, i am at 4 month post-op and starting to grow like crazy, but nowhere near where i will be at 18 months, everything will turn out great for you just relax and try not to stress and worry about it, honestly i really haven't even given my HT much thought until recently when i started to notice more and more growth at 3.5 months and i'm still not really looking to much into it. We are all here to support you! And Kaounis, i pocket dialed you yesterday on accident! Sorry about that and how are you doing my friend? World Class HT-Dr. Ron Shapiro 6/29/2009 4792 FU Total Hairs-9731 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member kaounis Posted November 5, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 5, 2009 Doing fine, Tos....happy to hear your already growing! Just a thought from the peanut gallery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member By Posted November 9, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted November 9, 2009 John, I don't think I'm in quite the same situation as you, but I can't say that I'm all that happy with my HT (other than the donor scar being done quite well). Then again, I can't get the hair in the back of my head cut very short or you can see it. I just don't believe that most of my 1100 grafts grew. I can see a handful that did (probably 30 or so are noticeable to me). But there's been no real change from week to week, month to month or pre vs. post op (HT was 11 months ago now). In other words, there was no shock loss suddenly, no gradual change, just the same thin hairline that I had prior to the procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Julius Posted November 9, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 9, 2009 By could you post some pics and tell us your doctor. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 To keep this thread on track and related to John's concerns and results, please post any questions about "By's" hair transplant on his original thread from a few months ago. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Originally posted by kaounis:.I really wish you all the best...but personally, I don't think you really should be all that worried, I think you will have great growth...I looked a lot worse than you at 7 months after my first HT, at 18 months, it was like I had a different head of hair...and I'm not bull*%$#ing you.... Kaounis, I think your confused by the growth. Most of that growth is from my first HT. I'm 7.75 months from my second and that is all the growth I've seen from 2 ht's in that area. That is why I'm so concerned, not to mention my scar is much more noticible than my first. Just a thought from the peanut gallery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member kaounis Posted November 14, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 14, 2009 What I meant was that at 18 months into your 2nd HT, the density will be much better and accentuate your first HT, I think you will look terrific, Like I said before on another thread, think of it as seeding a new lawn, at first it comes in very patchy and sparse, but as time goes by, it gets thicker, denser, and a lot more uniform! I know its's just an anology, but it best explains my point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TheEmperor Posted November 14, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 14, 2009 Originally posted by Julius:Hi John I sympathise with you but just give it a little more time. Could I ask at what density is the hair in the transplanted area? I was also under the impression that a good ht should look good without styling or maybe just running a comb through it a couple of times. Results of Shuffle and the like certainly give this impression. I think a person in the early norwoods or a diffuse thinner could even have good hair after hours of styling which is something I don't want to do and is why I am looking at hts. All the best No. no. no. I went to one of the top docs and got 4500 grafts. "Shuffle like" results are the top 1%. Most people will not even get close, even with the same planted density. Why is this? I think there are a number of factors. Foremost is donor quality. How fine are the hairs? What is the donor density? Then on top of that you have to ask, what is the transection rate? What is the "x factor"? (Signifies how well a patients physiology supports growth. The technicians will not bat 1000 with all the follicles. Some will be damaged and grow in thinner, some will not grow in at all. Then consider, how much supporting or "rim" hair there is. When hair grows from behind and from the sides, it supports the HT hair, provides additional density and coverage. This is hard to evaluate from photos because most people do not give straight on and side shots from 5 feet away. Then consider the planting strategy and finally the styling. I am so-so about my transplant. I think that probably 80% of the hairs grew; I can see some gaps in the hairline with lower density. That aside, the hair was reported to be "between average and fine" in density. I am guessing it is closer to fine.. perhaps the transplanted hairs are not growing with their original thickness because they are very fine. In my favor, I have high rims and temple points. But when it comes down to it, transplanted hair is probably at 30g cm/2 overall. With fine hair, this is very see through. So I thought I was going to get somewhere between jotronic and shuffle results (Jotronics baldness patern is greater than mine), but my result is somewhat worse than Jotronics. The hairline is planted a bit higher and I presume, the hair is finer. Just did not get a "wow result. What I am saying is that you will be disappointed if you attach your expectations to some of these top 5% guys you see. And trying to make apples/apples comparisons is also very difficult despite the best intentions. Expect a fine "barely coverage" result and you will not be too upset. If you keep going back, you may be able to get something more respectable over time. My Hair Loss Web Site - Hair Transplant with Dr. Wong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sparse Posted November 15, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 15, 2009 I couldn't find a blog for "Shuffle," and I'm curious to see his "top 1%" result . . . would you happen to have a link to his HT pics? My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted November 15, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 15, 2009 Outside of guys low on the NW scale, I would say that Shuffle has the best restoration ever, at least in terms of how much density he seems to have. That said, it took him multiple ops, and I remember him getting a good # of grafts to cover his real estate. This is from memory. I do agree that most HTs won't look "mint" with just a "few strokes of the comb"; but I'm not sure I'm sold that our physiologies are in this flux and sway between high and low %s of yield from patient to patient. ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sparse Posted November 15, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 15, 2009 Ok, I found Shuffle's blog on H&W's site: http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/shuffle/ He required 2 HTs to get that impressive density: one with Jones for 2600 and one with Dr. Hasson for 5200. My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TheEmperor Posted November 16, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally posted by Sparse:Ok, I found Shuffle's blog on H&W's site: http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/shuffle/ He required 2 HTs to get that impressive density: one with Jones for 2600 and one with Dr. Hasson for 5200. My point is that even with as many grafts planted at that density (8K on a NW5), most people still dont achieve near that fullness. I think half of that fullness. I received 4500 grafts and I look like im losing my hair and im still bald in the crown. Did most of them grow? Im not sure. I dont think I got 100%. I suspect that most people dont get 100% growth, most people get between 60-90% growth. Then most peoples hair varies in thickness by as much as 3:1. A fine hair provides a third of coverage as a thicker hair. So a guy like shuffle got near 100% growth and had thick hairs. Most people will not get that, unless they are a low norwood, and they super dense pack at 60+ g/cm2. I just want people to be realistic. Maybe I got a bad result? Im not so sure. I think a majority of hair grew, I just think the hair quality and other factors consipre to give less than a wow result. This doesnt mean one shouldnt get a HT, just be realistic. I DO see a trend that the guys with most impressive results, post more and their albums shoot to the top.. The guys with average results seem to disappear to the bottom of the stack. Lots of "meh" results out there. Look for them. My Hair Loss Web Site - Hair Transplant with Dr. Wong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Julius Posted November 16, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hi Emperor, if I remember right shuffles hair caliber was not great or his skin/hair contrast but I agree he is the exception. For your transplanted hairs to be finer than they originally were is odd because I thought transplanted hair almost always appeared thicker, out of curiosity who was the doc? I definitely agree that some follicles will die in the procedure but transection and poor yield can be largely averted by going to a top doc and I have heard by using a two-pass procedure as shuffle did. And if as thana says most HTs won't look "mint" with just a few strokes of the comb then I would probably not be happy even if I had a ht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Acrobaz Posted November 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 17, 2009 Originally posted by TheEmperor:This doesnt mean one shouldnt get a HT, just be realistic. I DO see a trend that the guys with most impressive results, post more and their albums shoot to the top.. The guys with average results seem to disappear to the bottom of the stack. Lots of "meh" results out there. Look for them. Emperor - you make a measured and important point. I agree with you completely. 17 Feb 09 - 3,200 FUs by strip surgery (Dr Feller) My Hair Loss Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sparse Posted November 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 17, 2009 Emperor: Psychologists have abundantly documented this sort of distorted thinking, and it turns out to be widespread. It results from something called the availability heuristic, a fancy way of saying that people tend notice vivid events (e.g., spectacular HT results) and bring them much more easily to mind than more average events (e.g., meh HT results) when predicting how likely a given event will be in the future. Thus, we become easily convinced that stellar HT results are much more common than they truly are. To make matters worse, we then succumb to confirmation bias, which causes us to avoid and/or disregard any less-impressive results that don't match our overly rosy belief about how wonderful most HT results really are. It's an all-too-human tendency, and one we all need to guard against! My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TheEmperor Posted November 18, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 18, 2009 Originally posted by Sparse:Emperor: Psychologists have abundantly documented this sort of distorted thinking, and it turns out to be widespread. It results from something called the availability heuristic, a fancy way of saying that people tend notice vivid events (e.g., spectacular HT results) and bring them much more easily to mind than more average events (e.g., meh HT results) when predicting how likely a given event will be in the future. Thus, we become easily convinced that stellar HT results are much more common than they truly are. To make matters worse, we then succumb to confirmation bias, which causes us to avoid and/or disregard any less-impressive results that don't match our overly rosy belief about how wonderful most HT results really are. It's an all-too-human tendency, and one we all need to guard against! Interesting. The offshoot of this, after you have had a HT and you are not completely 100% happy, is to question if you have had a bad result. What went wrong? So after your first HT, you may end up in a psychological limbo, as I have. I comb through my hair and take close up photos of "what went wrong". I am not sure if I should go back for another pass, find another doctor, or be thrilled I am not bald. THere are far worse results. My doc may have done the best HT in the world given my hair quality. I just dont know. It seems that there are some areas in the hairline where it appears there was some lack of growth, but centrally, most of it grew. Even if 10-15% did not grow, that is as I would expect for an average procedure, so the reality is that with my hair type, I will never get more than thin coverage. If I desire more than thin coverage, then I will have to sacrifice planting anything in the crown. And by thin, I mean that if the wind blow wrong, or my hair is combed up, I look pretty much bald. This is not exactly the "illusion of density". Its nuts. I am not pluggy looking and I generally look better, so I am learning to style every morning and just live with an imperfect result. Coming here makes me increasingly jealous of the results I see. I have to be a realist whenever I see a wow result. Like when you see a magician perform a trick you might say, "an audience member was in on it" or "there was a string pulling on it", etc. Instead I say, "he was only a NW4" or "he had really thick hairs" or "his head is alot smaller with less area to cover". My Hair Loss Web Site - Hair Transplant with Dr. Wong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Originally posted by Julius:Hi John I sympathise with you but just give it a little more time. Could I ask at what density is the hair in the transplanted area? I was also under the impression that a good ht should look good without styling or maybe just running a comb through it a couple of times. Results of Shuffle and the like certainly give this impression. I think a person in the early norwoods or a diffuse thinner could even have good hair after hours of styling which is something I don't want to do and is why I am looking at hts. All the best Julius, I'm not sure what the Fu/cm2 are. Spex, Do you have the specifics of my surgery with Feller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:As promised, here are the four pics, which John sent me to resize and upload for him: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 comments on my scar. It is shaved with a 4 clip at 7.5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member dakota3 Posted November 27, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted November 27, 2009 The scars not to bad. The redness will dull down and at 7.5 months I'd say you have alot of growing and maturation left. I think you are right on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malloy Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Thanks for the input dakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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