3800 grafts/fut With Dr Ali Karadeniz

[mosd]

I'm not sure why the doctor would refuse to do anything with the hair-line can you expand on that? you seem to imply it was because it was a free 'touch up' but you said he refused even though you offered to pay.

 

Ok so this is a long story.

 

After the first surgery i was very disappointed, both with the hairline and the density. I dont know if the density is low because the doctor spread the grafts over a big area or because it didnt grow. (opinions???)

 

So when talking to the doctor he offered me a free touch up, first i didnt take up on the offer cause i wasn't sure if i could go through a surgery again, both mentally, time wise, socially ( im studying) But the doctor wanted me to come over to take a look and then do a free touch up. They then said that they would do whatever it takes to make me happy. I even texted them about my temple points and offered to pay for it since it wasn't part of the first surgery. Its only fair that i pay for it.

Got a renpose back that they dont want money from me. They want to do whatever it takes to make me happy.

 

When i then arrive, the doctor say that everything did infact grow. I talked about how the hairline is not framing my face, my forehad looks huge and what not.

 

He simply refused to do anything beside what was done in the touch up. When i say refused i mean it. We talked about it for maybe a 10-15 minutes.

 

I asked whats the point of getting a hair transplant if i cant even style my hair? If i still will end up with so much recession and big forehead that im not comfortable with it?

 

He answered that i had to high demands, they couldn't be met.

 

I even asked if he could view it from my point, i came with a good amount of hair, it was not perfect but it was ok. Shouldn't i demand a better hairline after all the grafts?!

[mosd]

Do you guys think that my hairline even after the touch up looks bad?!?

[Mick50]

To be honest this is a difficult one to comment on, in the pre op pics your hair doesn't look too bad sure maybe 2000 grafts too reinforce the hair -line, I cant understand why 3800 were placed from hair-line to crown, your crown pre- op looked quite good, also you seemed to have hair in the mid-scalp as well .

Hopefully the new grafts will improve the hair line, when did you have the second transplant?

[mosd]

To be honest this is a difficult one to comment on, in the pre op pics your hair doesn't look too bad sure maybe 2000 grafts too reinforce the hair -line, I cant understand why 3800 were placed from hair-line to crown, your crown pre- op looked quite good, also you seemed to have hair in the mid-scalp as well .

Hopefully the new grafts will improve the hair line, when did you have the second transplant?

 

But what do you think, didnt the grafts grow in the front or was it because we spread over the grafts over a to big area?

 

I see that many doctors like konior,rahal, lorenzo,erdogan and so on use sometimes 2500-3500 only for the front. And that its exaclty what i should have done.

 

But i still dont know if the doctor didnt dense pack or the grafts didnt grow. It was a huge area for 3800

 

 

I did the touch up 10 days ago.

[mosd]

On the positive note the doctor said that my laxity was like i haven't done a prior surgery..

[Mick50]

Like I said at the very beginning, from looking at your before pictures, you already had what looks like sufficient coverage and density. I'm at a loss as to why the Dr placed so many grafts over such a large area. To me it looks like you only really needed hairline work. Am I the only person who sees this?

 

I have to agree with the above post this is why I find it difficult to give you a clear answer as to whether the grafts grew or not ,my fear is you lost more than you gained through shock -loss into an area which didn't needed to be touched to begin with ,I think you know this ,you need to ask the doctor what was the reason he took the approach he did.

 

Just to add I realise photos can be deceptive maybe your hair -loss was worse than the pre-op pics depict

[mosd]

I have to agree with the above post this is why I find it difficult to give you a clear answer as to whether the grafts grew or not ,my fear is you lost more than you gained through shock -loss into an area which didn't needed to be touched to begin with ,I think you know this ,you need to ask the doctor what was the reason he took the approach he did.

 

Just to add I realise photos can be deceptive maybe your hair -loss was worse than the pre-op pics depict

 

i asked the doctor this. And he said since ive been on finasteride for 2 years before surgery the only shock loss would be grafts that i still would have lost...

[KO]

Like I said at the very beginning, from looking at your before pictures, you already had what looks like sufficient coverage and density. I'm at a loss as to why the Dr placed so many grafts over such a large area. To me it looks like you only really needed hairline work. Am I the only person who sees this?

I agree...this has to be one of the more unique cases I've seen. Rather than add to the hairline with a few grafts, Dr K added density throughout. I note the difference between the before and after and the after looks better with greater volume, but, the planning is a little strange.

 

Then again, OP had thinning right above the lateral humps, which is noticeable in the before with the side part.

[HairsGone]

I think your pre-op pics looked decent and so do your 1 year results. You have a good amount of hair. But one of the pre-op photos in your first post shows mild but generalised thinning. This is not evident in the 1 year photos. I think grafts grew and there has been an improvement, how many is difficult to know. You would have had some shock loss and also given you are in your mid-late 20's you have probably lost more hair anyway.

 

I think your hair looks good and hopefully this touch up will help. It's actually a large touch up, the free touch ups I've seen before are usually a few hundred so you did well to get that many.

 

I kinda understand why Dr K declined to address any new areas even for payment. This was probably as he felt you would not be satisfied with the result and so didn't want to go through the same process of having an unhappy patient.

[mav23100gunther]

Wait, so in addition to the 3,800 grafts you had another 1200 grafts used in a touch-up but not to better reinforce that hairline? I'm far from being an expert, but I am completely blown away by what appears to be a horrific waste of grafts. It really looks like you had decent coverage over your whole head beforehand, but placing so many grafts into what appears to be sufficient existing hair is definitely going to cause shock loss. The worst part is that he then went and wasted another 1,200 grafts doing what? Do you know how much donar supply you have left? At this point I would reach out to the guy who cannot be named and see if he can facilitate a refund of some sort. At this point, because so many grafts were wasted, Dr K is not wrong in his assessment that working in your hairline may not be feasible as he badly miss-used the remaining grafts. Maybe I am missing something, and would love an expert to explain to me why this type of approach was taken.

 

MOSD, I feel absolutely horrible for you. Hopefully you have enough grafts left to work on that hairline

[mosd]

Wait, so in addition to the 3,800 grafts you had another 1200 grafts used in a touch-up but not to better reinforce that hairline? I'm far from being an expert, but I am completely blown away by what appears to be a horrific waste of grafts. It really looks like you had decent coverage over your whole head beforehand, but placing so many grafts into what appears to be sufficient existing hair is definitely going to cause shock loss. The worst part is that he then went and wasted another 1,200 grafts doing what? Do you know how much donar supply you have left? At this point I would reach out to the guy who cannot be named and see if he can facilitate a refund of some sort. At this point, because so many grafts were wasted, Dr K is not wrong in his assessment that working in your hairline may not be feasible as he badly miss-used the remaining grafts. Maybe I am missing something, and would love an expert to explain to me why this type of approach was taken.

 

MOSD, I feel absolutely horrible for you. Hopefully you have enough grafts left to work on that hairline

 

im not sure what you mean? the 1200 grafts touch up are placed in the hairline to add density? I added pictures of the touch up couple of pages back.

[mosd]

I think your pre-op pics looked decent and so do your 1 year results. You have a good amount of hair. But one of the pre-op photos in your first post shows mild but generalised thinning. This is not evident in the 1 year photos. I think grafts grew and there has been an improvement, how many is difficult to know. You would have had some shock loss and also given you are in your mid-late 20's you have probably lost more hair anyway.

 

I think your hair looks good and hopefully this touch up will help. It's actually a large touch up, the free touch ups I've seen before are usually a few hundred so you did well to get that many.

 

I kinda understand why Dr K declined to address any new areas even for payment. This was probably as he felt you would not be satisfied with the result and so didn't want to go through the same process of having an unhappy patient.

 

Why whould i be dissapointed with the result?

[mosd]

I agree...this has to be one of the more unique cases I've seen. Rather than add to the hairline with a few grafts, Dr K added density throughout. I note the difference between the before and after and the after looks better with greater volume, but, the planning is a little strange.

 

Then again, OP had thinning right above the lateral humps, which is noticeable in the before with the side part.

 

Where do you mean i have thinning? In what picture could you see this?

[mav23100gunther]

im not sure what you mean? the 1200 grafts touch up are placed in the hairline to add density? I added pictures of the touch up couple of pages back.

 

Aahh, I misread your posts. Thought the final pictures included the touch up, and did not realize that you just had it done. I think you will have to wait and see if the touch-up can improve the overall result. I agree that at this point because you already used so many grafts, it may not be wise to lower or do significant work into changing the hairline.

[mosd]

If you se the hairline that we did. If that hairline will get ok density i can live with it. Not perfect but i can live with it.

 

Regarding how many grafts i have left. We only took strip from one side of my head. Because the other side was so good and we didnt need so many grafts. The laxity was very good, what the doctor said. Like i havent had any surgery before.

 

So i hope i can get around 2000 from strip , 2000 fue, and maybe 1500 from beard.

[mav23100gunther]

If you se the hairline that we did. If that hairline will get ok density i can live with it. Not perfect but i can live with it.

 

Regarding how many grafts i have left. We only took strip from one side of my head. Because the other side was so good and we didnt need so many grafts. The laxity was very good, what the doctor said. Like i havent had any surgery before.

 

So i hope i can get around 2000 from strip , 2000 fue, and maybe 1500 from beard.

 

Okay that's very positive then. Let's see if the touch up can get you to a good place, and then you will have grafts in the bank for later. I definitely see light at the end of the tunnel for you mate and looks like it has the potential to work out Just remember to keep your expectations realistic and in check - like you are doing with the hairline. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

[Melvin- Admin]

I'm glad the doctor did a free touch up and I hope it's a home run this time around.

[HairsGone]

Why whould i be dissapointed with the result?

 

What I mean is that he may have felt it would be hard for him to meet your expectations, I think that's what you said. So he may have wanted to reinforce the area he's operated on and get a good result from that.

 

Can I ask who's idea was it to originally place the grafts over the whole area? Did you ask for that or was Dr K's plan?

[mosd]

I'm glad the doctor did a free touch up and I hope it's a home run this time around.

 

Thanks... I still cant really get over that before the touch up ive already used 3800 grafts..If 1200 grafts its going to change everything now maybe 1200 should have been enough in the first surgery?

[mosd]

What I mean is that he may have felt it would be hard for him to meet your expectations, I think that's what you said. So he may have wanted to reinforce the area he's operated on and get a good result from that.

 

Can I ask who's idea was it to originally place the grafts over the whole area? Did you ask for that or was Dr K's plan?

 

Hairsgone, i get what youre saying but was my expectations really high from the beginnig?

 

If i came from this and after 3800 ended up like this? I dont get the logic i that i would have to high expectations? My hairline barely changed, it got a little better but after using 3800 grafts i cant barely style my hair and my hairline is just just just a little bit better.

[mosd]

To be honest the only expectations i had after my 3800 surgery is that i would stop worrying about my hair. Even if it was for a year. The result i got is the oppsite im worrying about my donor being used, i worry that i will never be happy with my hair. I mean seriously hairsgone lets be realistic, have you seen the result people got from 8000 hairs?

[KO]

But that's the thing, Dr K didn't just work on your hairline, he tried to increase density throughout. In your preop pics, right at the crease where you part your hair, the scalp is visible. Was the plan to increase density there? Karadeniz did hairline to crown coverage, and I can't understand why....

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=103583&d=1485517864

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=103596&d=1485518148

[mav23100gunther]

Hairsgone, i get what youre saying but was my expectations really high from the beginnig?

 

If i came from this and after 3800 ended up like this? I dont get the logic i that i would have to high expectations? My hairline barely changed, it got a little better but after using 3800 grafts i cant barely style my hair and my hairline is just just just a little bit better.

 

That's because he placed a large number of grafts into a large area that didn't need it at the time. Grafts that grew were then probably offset by permanent shock loss of existing hairs, thereby creating a wash, and is why it looks like little has changed. in the long run you probably would have thinned out anyway. Good news is you have transplanted hairs there now which will help you down the road. I do like the fact that he did a touch up in just the frontal third, and that's probably what he should have focused on in the first place, so if it grows, then I think it may make the aestestic improvement you are looking for. Moving forward you just need to be smart about how you manage your remaining donor supply, and be very cautious about trying to lower the hairline. What you may need to do is fill in those side temples some more. 4,000 grafts left in the bank to play with is really good and should be more than enough to get you into a good place. Just research research and find a good surgeon that can present a good long term plan for them that also meets your goals.

 

I also Recommend you have a conversation with Dr K regarding the poor approach from him upfront, and push for a refund based on the new grafts being offset by the shock loss. Not sure if that's possible, but you should hold him accountable as he should have known better.

 

Other than that, it will be okay man. Don't dwell on the could of or should of, try move forward and focus on what can be done moving forward. I think the touch up will help a lot.

[mosd]

But that's the thing, Dr K didn't just work on your hairline, he tried to increase density throughout. In your preop pics, right at the crease where you part your hair, the scalp is visible. Was the plan to increase density there? Karadeniz did hairline to crown coverage, and I can't understand why....

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=103583&d=1485517864

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/attachment.php?attachmentid=103596&d=1485518148

 

im serious when i say that i dont see a difference, im i the only one?

[mosd]

That's because he placed a large number of grafts into a large area that didn't need it at the time. Grafts that grew were then probably offset by permanent shock loss of existing hairs, thereby creating a wash, and is why it looks like little has changed. in the long run you probably would have thinned out anyway. Good news is you have transplanted hairs there now which will help you down the road. I do like the fact that he did a touch up in just the frontal third, and that's probably what he should have focused on in the first place, so if it grows, then I think it may make the aestestic improvement you are looking for. Moving forward you just need to be smart about how you manage your remaining donor supply, and be very cautious about trying to lower the hairline. What you may need to do is fill in those side temples some more. 4,000 grafts left in the bank to play with is really good and should be more than enough to get you into a good place. Just research research and find a good surgeon that can present a good long term plan for them that also meets your goals.

 

I also Recommend you have a conversation with Dr K regarding the poor approach from him upfront, and push for a refund based on the new grafts being offset by the shock loss. Not sure if that's possible, but you should hold him accountable as he should have known better.

 

Other than that, it will be okay man. Don't dwell on the could of or should of, try move forward and focus on what can be done moving forward. I think the touch up will help a lot.

 

im really hoping that the touch up wil make it better for me.

 

The thing is this...somethings in life you can do wrong but you can make it up. like money, you can loose it but you still can get it back.

 

But after 3800 grafts and a tough year with a lot of hiding im exactly where i started minus the 3800 grafts...

 

Im really trying to move on and see hopefully the touch up can do a difference for me.

 

These are my prime years and if we only got the first transplant right i could have enjoyed couple of years without worrying about my hair.

 

I know there is nothing to do about it now. And im grateful for your answers guys.