To all that have had hair transplant

[Baldybee2]

I'm going back and forth between smp and hair transplant.

 

Do hair transplant provide fullness or density as shown in before and after pictures? Or is it all lies?

 

Basically if I'm in the restroom with lighting can you see your scalp? Because in these before and after pictures, it sure does look dense and full.

 

If one were to tranplant into the front corners would the transplant match the existing density of the forelock. Basically what I'm trying to get at is are hair transplant worth it as far as expectations of density or will it alway be thin and see thru? I seen hair transplants in person and it's see thru. Nothing like the before and after pictures I see on websites.

 

Please share your thoughts

[Cryingoutloud]

I had a procedure with a well-known surgeon, the outcome of which, became the focus of a dispute. I maintained the result was crap; he maintained that it wasn't.

 

As part of the dispute resolution process, he said he would send photos to other coalition surgeons for their opinions on the result. I said that I would do the same but I insisted on sending photos that I had taken in well lit environments.

 

The photos he had taken in the clinic's environment made my hair look pretty good and the responses from surgeons he sent them to were very positive.

 

The photos I took in normal daylight and office light environments got responses of "sub-optimal", "sub par" and "disappointing".

 

Hair transplants are intended to give the illusion of fullness but most of them cannot approach the density of native hair. Fortunately, however, 50% of native density is said to be enough to prevent light reaching the scalp. So if your native density is 80 FU/sq cm then transplanting hair at 40 FU/sq cm should be enough to give the illusion of fullness.

 

Surgeons can go as high as 60-65 FU/sq cm in dense-packing sessions but many prefer to do so in two separate procedures so as to ensure good yield.

[hsrp10]

Some very good points made above

 

Also, it will depend on how much native hair you have left to work with, the more you have the more the "wow" factor for density will be.

If going into surgery with little or no native hair the overall result will look sparse

 

I have read your past posts, and understand it's a tough decision to make. I think your toughest call will be whether to proceed without meds, due to continued loss and risk of possible shockloss

Edited July 13, 2014 by hsrp10
apparently getting auto moderated for simply trying to help this guy. What a waste of time

[Spanker]

Smp doesn't sound like a good option for a nw2 in his mid 30s. I would consider an ht or skip the procedure all together. There are many happy patients on this board and to assume it's all lies would suggest a mass conspiracy, which is very hard to pull off.

[Baldybee2]

Yes I agree that there are many happy people with their transplants and would love to hear some comments from them. Do hair transplant give you fullness or is it see thru? I've seen hair transplant in person and it's thin looking and the hair look like its fried or dry. However when I see those before and after photos it's like wow sign me up.

[hsrp10]

Baldybee2,

 

Do you have pics of your current situation you can post? (you can block out your face below the eyebrows)

I think that would help the forum in being able to provide you with the most specific advice for your case

[watch4norwoods]

if you're over a NW4 I personally wouldn't bother with a HT unless your goal is just having hair on your head versus a full head followed by density, and coverage, which is plausible if you're a NW4 or under.

 

 

Option a) fully restore temple points with an HT, and opt for a hair system.

 

Temple points are paramount for having a natural appearance, and result

[Baldybee2]

Thank you for the comment and yes I agree with what you said about not being more than nw4.

[hsrp10]

Baldybee2,

 

I think starting a thread with your pics will help the forum in giving you the best advice for your situation -> HT, SMP etc.

Looking back at your past posts we are just generalizing as best we can.

 

Also, can never recommend SMP for you now that you've made it clear you are looking for temple corner work only. Smp is great for (1) scar camouflage and (2) for advanced Norwoods who don't want to seek a HT. All the things said by scar5 and others so far contain good advice.

 

I will add this guy has started multiple posts on the same subject, and although in good spirits we are trying to help him it's impossible to give any concrete advice without pics

Edited July 13, 2014 by hsrp10
apparently getting auto moderated for simply trying to help this guy

[Garageland]

You mentioned temples matching to the forelock so can I assume that is what you are looking to achieve? If that is the case then this would be regarded as a small session and I would not recommend SMP.

 

SMP works best if you wish to shave the entire head to the bone it can also work as a filler for someone who has a little thinning giving the appearance of density from a distance as it will colour the scalp, I don't think this would look great in a isolated areas in the hairline.

 

As for density with a transplant as others have said you cannot recreate the native density but around 50-60% can give the illusion and block the light to the scalp but hair characteristics will play a part in this. If you have coarse wavy/curly hair you will stand to have a better chance of achieving this than someone he has fine caliber straight hair.

 

As others said post op some photos, peoples results are very much personal to them. The density has to be pretty high to stand up under bright overhead spotlights or overhead sunlight but yes it can be achieved.

[delancey]

Hi David!

 

Hope all is well with you. What would you say the density requirement is for someone with medium-fine blonde hair (fu/cm2)? That is, will the 40-50% rule work for someone who is under direct sun light?

[fueonly]

Dont go for smp it wate of money and your head. It will decolor as time pass b and gives a smudge appearence. Smp is waste. Instaead of giving 1500$ to 3000$ for smp go for HT

Their are many doctors doing FUE in 1, 1.50$ , 2 ans 3$ per graft fue

Rather then black dots I would like to have real hair. Smp people say give shaven hair like appearence noway it is just a black dot on your head thats it period.

[Baldybee2]

Thanks for your input, Fueonly!

 

You seem like your not into the whole SMP thing. I talked with people who said SMP looks fake. I never seen it in person. However, the people on this board says it looks real and good.

 

Anyway how many Fue grafts can you take from your donor before eat starts becoming thin "moth eaten"?

[fueonly]

It depends after seeing your pic. Why you are not posting your all angles pic. First you post your pic. Then we can discuss.

[Baldybee2]

I got a full head of hair so if I take pictures and post it won't say much. I'm thin in the corners to a somewhat norwood 2 to maybe even 3. But pictures won't say much at this point. I got no miniturization on crown, top and front. Only miniturization in the front corners per doctor. But I guess you never know right with hair loss progression. Just trying to learn from you all amd build my knowledge in hair loss.

[scar5]

I have had both HT and SMP.

 

I think most peopel can get decent density at the right length, in certain patches of their scalp but eventually they run into trouble as conditions change and along the journey they might have to wear a hairstyle they do not identify with. But maybe that is better than a balding style.

 

The illusion of density

Most often, patients are underwhelmed by the density they achieve in at least one key area. They find they have to grow it longer and longer until they reach a 'sweet spot' where they can comb the hair back and it blends in or falls in such a way that hair behind shingles over the hair forward providing a canopy effect. The upper surface of the canopy seems to blend seemlesly with the native hair if the hair is cut just the right way and if you in over 60-80 percent of lighting environments, can achieve this, it is deemed a smashing success. In the other 20 % of situations! the light will cut right through the canaopy and bounce off the shiny scalp clearly illuminating the areas of your head that have no longer got native hair growing.

 

Unfortunately, in many cases, to get this effect to work all over you head is a big ask. Frequently, I see transplanted patients with beautiful hairlines and flat or empty crowns. They have a dilemma. If they cut down the hairline even by half, they break up the canopy and it looks prickly and pluggy, this forces them to cut it shorter which in turn means they expose the rear areas more and to cut a long story short, they look 15 years older. Totally shaving might be an option if you want to deal with the assumptions and compromise that goes it, and then but with scars

 

So in summary, no, HTs will not give you 100% disguisable density. Take a picture at angle A and you are a poster boy. Tilt your head 5 degrees and you could look like a clown. That is the reality for many. For those realistic enough to cop a hair style they don't want, and patient enough to grow it to the perfect sweet spot length, wash it well and maintain it, and keep a keen eye out for nasty lighting, an HT can open doors long closed

Edited July 10, 2014 by scar5
English and too long

[Garageland]

Hi Delancey,

 

I am good thanks hope you are?

 

Probably not is the honest answer but it depends on so many factors if you were transplanting into bare temples it really depends on what the density is in the forelock say to be able to match. Some guys with coarse dark wavy hair could get away with 40-45 hairs cm2 whilst guys with finer straight hair might need to be closer to 50-55cm2. If you are just going into hairline and temples then you can provide this density but guys on the higher Norwood scale have to be realistic that this kind of density can't be achieved throughout the entire scalp.

 

How you style your hair and the length you wear it will make a big difference as scar 5 mentions. The sweet spot has been spoken of in terms of length and some people have that hair that lays flat and covers more scalp others have wavy hair that whilst gives better coverage sits up from the scalp and tangles together and can make scalp more visible. Dark hair needs to be packed denser as the contrast from the scalp is more visible where as guys with light brown or blonde hair have that advantage of the hair blending in colour with the scalp better.

 

So there are a number of factors and whilst x density might work on one patient on another it may not be enough.

[gillenator]

What we must remember is that achieving original levels of density is not necessary to achieve the illusion of coverage. Successful HT surgery is not necessarily achieving optimal density levels but rather attaining a restored look.

 

So the next question becomes, "Is that possible?" Yes, it is. Because what we forget is that our own terminal hair taken from the donor zone has the highest or optimal level of caliber. And caliber covers better than density itself.

 

In fact, one could attribute the success of attaining visual coverage more to the degree of hair caliber, more than anything else.

 

And we can also remember that achieving even 50% of native density is going to look or appear restored, even starting with a completely bald surface area.

 

How many times do we see someone get around 50 FU per cm2, and they "appear" completely restored? Many times. It happened to me and after my third procedure, you would have never guess that I had any hair loss whatsoever.

 

Having said all that, individuals with thin caliber or a lower than average degree of hair shaft diameter may need more grafts than those with outstanding hair quality.

[delancey]

Thanks for your honesty, David!

Hi Delancey,

 

I am good thanks hope you are?

 

Probably not is the honest answer but it depends on so many factors if you were transplanting into bare temples it really depends on what the density is in the forelock say to be able to match. Some guys with coarse dark wavy hair could get away with 40-45 hairs cm2 whilst guys with finer straight hair might need to be closer to 50-55cm2. If you are just going into hairline and temples then you can provide this density but guys on the higher Norwood scale have to be realistic that this kind of density can't be achieved throughout the entire scalp.

 

How you style your hair and the length you wear it will make a big difference as scar 5 mentions. The sweet spot has been spoken of in terms of length and some people have that hair that lays flat and covers more scalp others have wavy hair that whilst gives better coverage sits up from the scalp and tangles together and can make scalp more visible. Dark hair needs to be packed denser as the contrast from the scalp is more visible where as guys with light brown or blonde hair have that advantage of the hair blending in colour with the scalp better.

 

So there are a number of factors and whilst x density might work on one patient on another it may not be enough.

[delancey]

What we must remember is that achieving original levels of density is not necessary to achieve the illusion of coverage. Successful HT surgery is not necessarily achieving optimal density levels but rather attaining a restored look.

 

So the next question becomes, "Is that possible?" Yes, it is. Because what we forget is that our own terminal hair taken from the donor zone has the highest or optimal level of caliber. And caliber covers better than density itself.

 

In fact, one could attribute the success of attaining visual coverage more to the degree of hair caliber, more than anything else.

 

And we can also remember that achieving even 50% of native density is going to look or appear restored, even starting with a completely bald surface area.

 

How many times do we see someone get around 50 FU per cm2, and they "appear" completely restored? Many times. It happened to me and after my third procedure, you would have never guess that I had any hair loss whatsoever.

 

Having said all that, individuals with thin caliber or a lower than average degree of hair shaft diameter may need more grafts than those with outstanding hair quality.

 

Unfortunately, the best hair transplants that I have seen are usually with candidates who have thick hair. More often than not, clinics tend to post pictures of candidates with thick hair. However, I have also seen some very nice results with candidates who have a low contrast between hair and scalp. Blonde hair and fair skinned candidates with fine hair are, however, difficult to come by online, especially Norwood 5 examples.

[Baldybee2]

Yes I guess it all depends on your hairloss pattern and how thick your hair is. I'm not sure if I will go the smp route or the ht route. It will all depend on my final balding pattern. Right now the pattern I have is front corners miniturization. I could easy have enough hair to do fill it in. But I don't want two horns if I end up losing more hairs and having to chase hair loss. Hopefully as you get older hair loss stablizes. The key is what is the perfect age for hair loss to stable to get a cosmetic procedure either smp or ht. The choice is not easy on which procedure. HT is very risky because with limited donor. And smp, with all the research I been doing I get the feel that it just looks too fake. The dots I see in the pictures are too big and some dots are not even circular but rather oval like. And these hairlines 8 out of 10 are just fake looking. So one week I'm thinking smp for me and the next week I feeling ht. Not an easy decision by any means. And I'm especially cautious from reading these board messages that people didn't like smp and these very same clinics are now doing smp and changing their tunes. Very interesting to say the least.

[scar5]

You've got it baldybee,

 

 

SMP and it's problems which are still unresolved including, blotching of areas, individual dot spreading, blunt hairlines, blue hue might not be an issue if you have hair and continue to grow hair over the SMP zone, either at length for the illusion (as summarized above) or just at buzz level. But how long can you continue to maintain the optimal balance between SMP and HT hair and native hair? so your point about stabilization is spot on.

 

I always lose the minaturiized perimeter hair on the temples if I plant in there. It is all very well to say that donor hair has robust characteristics but how does it blend in to fine haired temples and frontal areas? I think you have to take some loss and then grow the hair out a bit to coverage and blend the gaps between native areas and transplanted ones, and if you lose more then the prospect of horns, as you call them is real. I have a couple myself and need to apply product to the minaturiized zones behind them to blend them in.

[hsrp10]

Can never recommend SMP for you Baldybee2, now that you've made it clear you are looking for temple corner work only

 

Smp is great for (1) scar camouflage and (2) for advanced Norwoods who don't want to seek a HT.

All the things said by Scar5 and others so far contain good advice.

[gillenator]

That's the tough thing about MPB. It is progressive over our lifetimes. We can at times experience periods of stabilization (from meds) but not in a permanent sense to where hair loss is completely stopped or reversed.

 

And SMP as a stand alone treatment spells disaster for most individuals. SMP ink deflects light from the scalp more than anything else IMHO and why some level of hair shafts are needed to create any sense of aesthetic appeal.