Dr. Feller, you're not better than Dr. Bauman! (PRP vs LLLT)

[lost my swagger]

Originally posted by JimJohnson:

Originally posted by brentipold:

no kidding.. and why would he..

 

So you think charging 800 dollars for an unprovan treatment with no photographic evidence is alright?

 

i guess its up to the readers and lurkers to decide how they feel about fellers intentional lack of response....

 

some here just love siding with the "top" docs.. some go the opposite direction.. it is funny to me tho that some can view JJs post to feller like HE is in the wrong or that HE is some sort of bad guy for raising questions.. or hes whats wrong with this place.

 

it seems to me that to few of you realize the industy we are dealing with here..... for better or worse feller is a part of this indusrty...

 

infact forums like this were essentially CREATED OUT OF THE DISPICABLE, GREEDY, DESRTRUCTIVE force that was and is the HAIR TRANSPLANT INDUSRTY..we as patients demanded better, because lives were being hurt badly.

 

has the indusrty gotten better in the last 30 years? absolutely.. and places like this have played their part.. WE ALL KNOW ABOUT FELLERS ability because of THIS place. we have a better idea who the BEST in the business are because WE ASKED TOUGH QUESTIONS, because we as patients, demanded we not be taken advantage of, or lied to.... if WE did not demand such, then the indusrty has a PROVEN TRACK record of how little it gives a s*** about us....

 

 

whatever motive JJ has behind asking this question and creating this topic should take a back seat to the fact that much of his questions are quite valid and deserve to be asked....

 

ask questions if you want answers.... if the source itself elects not to answer that in itself can be telling also..

[Maxxy]

I have to agree with 'Lost my Swagger', and I also thought JimJohnson brought up some valid points.

 

I personally don't see it becoming a "pointless argument", questions and concerns have been raised by JimJohnson which others in the forum share.

 

It would be a shame if Dr. Feller or any doctor faced with questions of genuine concern decided not to address them, I also so feel the responses by some posters may have been different if the concerns were addressed to a lesser known/respected doctor - if that is the case, it shouldn't be.

[HTInitiate]

I believe that the title of this post seems unfair! Asking for more evidence on PRP would have worked too, wouldn't it ?

[the B spot]

JimJohnson may have a purely healthy skepticism regarding PRP. But the LLT reference is not valid.

 

LLT is FDA approved and is touted as a "Cure" for baldness along with Rogaine/Propecia. Most of us do not believe that is the case.

 

PRP is being offered as a "Chance"--it is expensive, experimental and I believe Dr. Feller has already stated this, in addition to letting any patient interested in it know this as well.

 

Guys, I agree with LMS that we should continue to question the industries practices and procedures, but let's be fair and make the debate about the efficacy of PRP (which we do not know at this point) and not personal.

 

I personally would not spend 800 bucks for PRP...but honestly, there are guys who have 800 bucks and it is no big deal to spend it on a chance.

 

If you start from the basis that other than finance, does a treatment harm a patient? What is the potential for harm? Is proper disclosure done? Does the patient understand?

 

If these factors are laid out for an adult, then there is no issue.

 

Again, I go back to LLT--it was the same issue BEFORE FDA approval..once it was FDA approved and being mass-marketed as a solution, as opposed to an ADJUNCT treatment that may or may not help, that was the problem.

 

Same for PRP...it is a adjunct treatment, that may or may not work. If any doctor was claiming PRP was a baldness cure and selling it as such, we would all be up in arms about it.

 

Debate and skepticism are healthy and sorely needed even today...look at the NeoGraft thread for an example of that.

 

My opinion is we should focus on PRP benefits/drawbacks and leave the personal spin out of it.

 

My opinion, of course.

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

There appear to be two issues that have come out of this thread:

 

1. The wrong assumption the initial poster made that Dr. Feller is touting PRP as an effective hair loss treatment with guarantees

 

2. Whether or not Dr. Feller or any physician should be allowed to charge for an experimental procedure

 

Number one is completely invalid since Dr. Feller has been honest and upfront that he is only experimenting with Platement Rich Plasma to treat baldness. Nowhere did he guarantee results and he's been completely upfront with patients who are willing to take the chance.

 

Regarding issue number two, despite the fact that some may not like it, there is nothing unethical about charging for an experimental procedure. Nobody is forcing patients to undergo this procedure and Dr. Feller is upfront that the procedure is experimental and may not do anything for them.

 

Frankly, as long as a physician is honest and transparent about what they charge and the expected results, patients are empowered and free to make an educated decision on whether to try it out.

 

If you don't want to pay for an experimental procedure, don't. Personally, I won't either. But let's not begrudge doctors offering it and the patients willing to pay for the chance it might have some benefit to them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jason,

 

FYI, LLLT has been FDA "cleared", not "approved" as a hair loss treatment. There is a distinction between them that has been discussed elsewhere on this forum if you're interested in learning more.

 

Bill

[the B spot]

Righto Bill...just pointing out how LLT has been marketed as FDA approved, and as a cure/proper treatment program, vs how Dr. Feller has presented PRP. I believe there is no comparison at this point.

 

Thanks,

Jason

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jason,

 

Ah, you are right about that. LLLT has been marketed incorrectly by those who feel taking advantage of a hair loss sufferer's lack of self-confidence is the best way to get business for themselves.

 

And I agree, there is no comparison to how LLLT has been falsely marketed and how PRP is being offered by Dr. Feller.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[JimJohnson]

I'm sure that Dr. Feller saw this topic already. I'm wondering why he isn't answering.

[Atomic]

You mean why didn't Feller take the bait don't you?

It is obvious you are setting him up. I am beginning to think you have an agenda against Feller not just his PRP experiment.

You are goating him to answer & that throws up a red flag.

And guys JJ is just trying to keep this thread "alive" so don't help him.

Feller is smart not to get hooked into this one!

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Atomic:

You mean why didn't Feller take the bait don't you?

It is obvious you are setting him up. I am beginning to think you have an agenda against Feller not just his PRP experiment.

You are goating him to answer & that throws up a red flag.

And guys JJ is just trying to keep this thread "alive" so don't help him.

 

 

Feller is smart not to get hooked into this one!

 

 

 

I didnt get the impression that he was trying to set him up, Bill would of cottoned on and put a stop to it if that was happening.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jim,

 

Since you are the topic starter, I think it's time to answer some questions. Depending on how you answer these questions, I will consider allowing this topic to continue or close it.

 

Given everything that was already said, why would Dr. Feller really even need to address this post?

 

It's already been proven that the comparision of Dr. Feller's use of PRP doesn't compare to the LLLT argument because Dr. Feller hasn't claimed that PRP works.

 

It appears you are just angry that he charges to provide the procedure when it's experimental. But why? What is your motive? Do you wish he offered it for free so you could partake?

 

Dr. Feller has given patients realistic information empowering them to make their own decisions.

 

So what's the problem?

 

Your answers are expected.

 

Bill

[JimJohnson]

Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

Jim,

 

Since you are the topic starter, I think it's time to answer some questions. Depending on how you answer these questions, I will consider allowing this topic to continue or close it.

 

Given everything that was already said, why would Dr. Feller really even need to address this post?

 

It's already been proven that the comparision of Dr. Feller's use of PRP doesn't compare to the LLLT argument because Dr. Feller hasn't claimed that PRP works.

 

It appears you are just angry that he charges to provide the procedure when it's experimental. But why? What is your motive? Do you wish he offered it for free so you could partake?

 

Dr. Feller has given patients realistic information empowering them to make their own decisions.

 

So what's the problem?

 

Your answers are expected.

 

Bill

 

Bill, I have not changed my intention after opening up this topic. Why do you first agree, and then threaten me to close this topic suddenly? Can't remember insulting anyone. Now you're asking me what's the problem.

 

I opened up this topic since it's been about 5 months since Dr. Feller shared his first experience regarding PRP, and he told us that he'll make photographs and show us those. However, all he posted so far were 2 sets of pictures of people having full heads of hair before, and after. He has not updated us since then, so I assume that he continues to charge 600-800$ for an unproven treatment. But where are the photographs, if he treated a lot of patients already?

 

I opened up this topic because I re-listened to that Conversation between Dr. Feller and Dr. Bauman, and after I noticed that Dr. Feller now charges 800$, for something that has pretty much the same lack of evidence that it works for hair loss, so I collected the information and photographs dr. Feller provided to us so far. So I think it's not fair how he lauged about Dr. Bauman for charging 5000 bucks for a 1-year treatment (including propecia+minoxidil supplies) while he charges something that consists of drawing blood, mixing it, and injecting it to the scalp.

 

It's already been proven that the comparision of Dr. Feller's use of PRP doesn't compare to the LLLT argument because Dr. Feller hasn't claimed that PRP works.

So what? Dr. Bauman didn't claim that LLLT works when he first tried it (Btw, don't think I'm defending dr. bauman. I still think it's reticolous that he charges 5000$ for that). Dr. Feller has been doing PRP many months now, and according to his signature, he is still officialy offering it.

 

I can just repeat myself.

Originally posted by JimJohnson:

If your next post is gonna show some great pictures of PRP results, than I apologize sincerly. Really! I hope you can understand my frustration as I think you have been in the same situation when LLLT was hyped 2 years ago. I'm just another young balding guy looking for some WORKING treatments.

 

If you, Bill, find the topic title offensive you can change it if you want to. It will not make such a big difference. I still hope Dr. Feller to reply to this thread, but he ignored it so far. And as you can see some people (including you for some parts) agree with me in some points.

[brentipold]

dr. fellers been doing prp for 3 months... according to grecos study most dont see results till the 4th month and the 6th month...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jim,

 

I didn't have a problem with you asking Dr. Feller questions and starting the topic. However, all of your questions have been answered (be it, by the members of this community rather than Dr. Feller). But in following the actual thread, it just seems like you're just driving the same points and baiting him, a behavior that's not permitted on this forum.

 

We get that you'd like to see more photos of PRP procedures. But it's been about 3 months, so I'm not sure what you expect.

 

We also get that you don't like that he's charging for an experimental procedure. But since it's not unethical, it's his prerogative.

 

Honestly, if you're genuinely interested in getting a response, why not send Dr. Feller a private message or call him on the phone to discuss it? Otherwise, you're just beating a dead horse.

 

Bill

[Davis]

I don't understand how you can compare PRP and LLT?

 

First of all Dr Feller has specifically stated undergoing any PRP treatment is purely experimental and that it does not guarantee any regrowth or even maintenance...

 

from the photos posted if you believe it is beneficial then by all means, if not then no sweat.

 

I personally am waiting until about January to see the results of the people who have already undergone it.

 

 

Secondly the LLT people claim their product is a treatment for MPB which to this day I have not seen one shred of evidence

[thanatopsis_awry]

Jim, I can understand wanting your thread to get the action you thought it would for sure get from Dr. Feller (the likely reason he has chosen not to engage....), but you're indeed going to come across as simply baiting (which will drive him away further in all liklihood...) if you dont't provide a new insight or piece of evidence to support your argument.

 

Also, FWIW, I'm quite certain that I'm going to undergo PRP in the coming weeks, once I get a bit more assurance on its safety.

 

I have a faith in Dr. Feller's instincts; I also feel I'm as good a candidate as can be, which gives the ancillary benefit of documenting things in detail and providing the forum with a fully transparent, ongoing trial.

[hairthere]

in his debate with dr. bauman, dr. feller explained why there was no scientific basis for llt to work. he has also provided scientific basis why prp should work. i spoke with dr. f via email about prp, and he thinks it could work for me. i made a decision to wait and see the results first. there is nothing deceptive about prp or the way dr. f is offering it. jimjohsnon is intimating there is, and that's why he is not getting a reaction from dr. f.