H&W SMP January 2013

[azazelgs]

Scar5,

 

First of all I know you would understand and not take this as an attack , so thank you.

 

Secondly, I don't know where but Dr.Rassman stated that it will eventually change color over the course of time. So hearing it from someone who applies permanent ink makes it offical that it will turn blue/green.

[scar5]

I don't know where but Dr.Rassman stated that it will eventually change color over the course of time. So hearing it from someone who applies permanent ink makes it offical that it will turn blue/green.

 

Azz, I've never read/known that.

 

I've read him say that it will LOOK look blue green under the skin immediately and consistently, but not deteriorate to TURNING blue/green over time.

 

He says it will fade, but not turn blue/green.

 

And why does he insist on using black if that is the case? Does he not know something? Or is it that we don't know something?

[Bill - Seemiller]

I'm glad to see such a spirited debate over such a hot topic. For the record, I am not against scalp micropigmentation as a potential solution for masking the appearance of hair loss. After all, our hair restoration community was first to recognize its significance by creating a forum category to discuss SMP.

 

Similarly, I'm not against topical concealers like DermMatch, Nanogen and Toppik. I'm also not against hair replacement systems for those who understand the pros and cons of them including ongoing costs and maintenance. Just because I don't choose to utilize them, doesn't mean I try to steer others away from them.

 

Like other non-surgical treatments, scalp micropigmentation only represents a small niche in hair restoration. It's an ideal procedure for a select group of consumers. For those who genuinely believe it's the "next big thing" in hair restoration, I disagree. Frankly, I'd be real surprised if the majority of the world decides they'd rather sport fading tattoos on top of their heads than real hair :-).

 

Hair transplant surgery remains the dominant, most popular and viable treatment for hair loss because it's the only proven technique to grow hair in completely bald areas with high rates of success. I suspect in time, this will be replaced by an actual cure for baldness or some means of producing an unlimited donor supply like hair multiplication, hair duplication, etc. Unfortunately, it appears that this is still far away.

 

I respect posters like JoTronic, Janna and Spex and all the research and time they've put into investigating a particular SMP technique as performed by Milena Lardi of Beauty Medical. There is clearly merit in the technique and due to its increasing popularity and quality results, I think it's great that several clinics are beginning to offer it.

 

At the end of the day, there are several solutions for hair loss. each of which represent a niche in hair restoration. SMP is yet another one to consider. Just because I wouldn't personally consider it, doesn't mean I'm suggesting others don't. Each hair loss sufferer should and will inevitably choose one that's right for them, which is what this community is about.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Aaron,

 

I haven't but would like to see SMP results in person. My comments and concerns however, don't require me to. I have no doubt that the end result can look natural. However, I personally wouldn't choose to undergo temporary SMP myself because at the end of the day, it's only temporary. I personally wouldn't want to keep up with the additional costs, time and travel necessary to continually repeat the procedure. Others however, may have no problem with this. This is a choice each individual has to make for themselves.

 

Bill

[Janna]

 

 

Here's my main concern with perm smp and why we say to research the technique and know what you are getting into, regardless of perm or temp inks.

 

Scar5,

I don't think it's fair to say Joe is in this for money. He himself is a repair patient who was royally messed up. Dr. Wong did a tremendous job but being a NW5-6, you need more donor hairs than what Joe has in the donor bank. I've recently seen Joe in person and we spoke about why we're adding this temp smp to our clinics. We are both on the same page on this - that this could be a useful option for those who really desire it and are the right candidates.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Janna

[Jotronic]

I'm rather surprised at the amount of "discussion" this topic has taken on. The point of this thread was to announce that we are offering the procedure starting next month. Now it has morphed into a concoction of assumptions and misinformed opinions.

 

Let me be clear on this although I thought I was clear from the very onset of the idea of SMP. I was one of the biggest opponents of SMP. I do not like how it is marketed. The advertising I saw online from some of the various clinics around the world presented this option as if it were the cure for hair loss. One outfit even boldly states that you will look like you have a full head of hair that you simply shave down. This is absolute BS. It doesn't look like you have a full head of hair shaven down and guys with full heads of hair don't generally shave their heads to begin with. There will be the occasional guy that does ( I know one guy that does) but in my opinion 99% of all head shavers do so because they are losing their hair and shaving it doesn't fool anyone. It's more of an ease of maintenance issue.

 

A bit of history for those that have forgotten. My opinion about SMP began to change when I was in Europe with Dr. Hasson performing consultations. This was only back in March of this year. We had been seeing SMP from all of the known clinics in Europe. On this trip in March we saw about seven cases between Rome and London. Most of these cases looked unnatural and had a blue/green tint and only served to reinforce my disdain for SMP. Some of the dots were more like messy splotches. Some of the work was older, some was newer. All of these left us shaking our heads. However, there were two cases that we thought were pretty natural looking. They were from a clinic we had not heard of. This is where Milena Lardi and Beauty Medical come in. We met with Milena later on during our visit to Rome and I came away fairly excited by what I had seen.

 

The following week I mentioned what I had seen while on another internet based medium and next thing I know people are going crazy over this. Doctors are calling her up trying to get more information, patients were emailing and posting about her and suddenly she's the hot topic of the hour. Well, good for her because I think she deserves it. Milena and her partner Giorgio are exceptionally nice people and one of the things I really like about them is that they give a damn about making and offering a quality product.

 

Regarding the issue of temporary vs. permanent. Some are acting as if this being a temporary procedure is some form of thievery, locking patients into HAVING to have this done over and over. I have news for you. You have two options. Option one is to not have this procedure at all, ever. Option two is to not continue to have this procedure if you ever do have it. Done and done. We like this procedure because it is temporary. It does not lock one into anything. If you don't like it, then it will go away. If you want to change the design, you need only wait till it has faded enough to change it to any design you desire and there is ZERO chance of the result turning blue or green. This is not a miracle procedure. It is not a replacement for actual hair. Never misunderstand this because if you do then you will be sorely disappointed.

 

Who can benefit from this technique?

 

- People that are diffused thinners and are not candidates for surgery. This is especially true for female patients and personally I think it is an excellent option for women without surgery. Being a woman with hair loss sucks worse than it does for the guys because unlike men, the majority of women are not good surgical candidates and they don't have Propecia. Most women are simply stuck with Rogaine and a recommendation to have their thyroid, iron and hormone levels checked. Those women that are candidates for surgery are restricted to fewer grafts being available for transplantation and they run a higher risk for severe temporary shock loss.

 

- Men that are buzzing their heads with a few millimeters of length and want additional definition for a hairline or additional dots to increase the number of "stubbles" seen on their scalp.

 

- Patients that want their strip or FUE scars filled in. I saw in person the work that Milena did on Spex when he and I met in Los Angeles back in September. His strip scar, without reservation, had the most effective form of "camouflage" I have ever seen. With FUE of scalp or beard hair into scar I can always tell what is what because the angles are never right and the density never matches the surrounding areas. On Spex the donor scar was completely filled with a natural density and NO ONE would ever suspect that anything other than hair was in this area. SMP does not always work well with scar tissue however so a result like on Spex will not be possible for everyone with scar tissue.

 

- Patients that want to try permanent SMP. Yes, if you are considering permanent ink ( which I do not recommend) but you are worried about the appearance then you could get temporary SMP first and then if you like it you can feel better about proceeding with the permanent option. It won't look exactly the same but it will give you an idea of what it is like to have a few thousand dots on your scalp. It's the same thing with regular tattoo. Some people will go get a Henna tattoo first to see how they like sporting ink on their arm. You get temporary SMP and the majority of the guess work is removed. If you like how it looks and you want to risk the problems associated with so-called permanent SMP options then knock yourself out, go for it.

 

- Finally, this can be an option for those that like what SMP does but do not wish to risk the chance of the ink turning blue or green. This is what I find to be one of the more redeeming qualities of this procedure because to date, I have not found one clinic/studio etc. that will guarantee their ink will not turn blue or green. This to me speaks volumes.

[scar5]

Scar5,

I don't think it's fair to say Joe is in this for money. .

 

Janna,

I am not 'in it' for the money either!

 

Janna,

H&W are selling Milena's SMP.

Joe is a salesman for H&W.

Joe started this very thread to promote it . (Sorry to 'tell us')

And Joe has promoted Milena on radio talks show.

 

Why are you forcing my hand? Into painting Joe as the Devil? Do you want to isolate me? He is doing a great job..and his advice has helped me and also his considered tone his really valuable, not only about hair but about feeling shitty in general.

 

The commercial incentive is and will be everywhere but these boards quickly lose their interactive dimension when they become back slapping promotion platforms under the guise of genuine rigorous debate.

 

And I completely agree with what he has to say about SMP for that matter. (Almost)

 

You know, knowing what I know now, I would probably hold off doing SMP, if I had the discipline and coolness needed. I def prefer the brown tones of Milena to the black tones everywhere else. I was told brown cannot be removed by laser, so it was a warning bell.

 

My SMP has a color I do not like. I am anxious about it. Could I be the 'jealous Guy' Yes, indeed. Doesn't change.

 

Joe always said "there are no guarantees in hair transplantation" for H&W, and for SMP they won't guarantee it won't turn blue/green so it 'speaks volumes'

 

For years I have watched Joe and others warn us about FUE and the hype and traps - complete with drama and horror photos. For years Joe has told us that H&W don't do FUE because they care about the money..that's right.. The patients' money! Giving value to patients.

 

Folks, this is what happens when you question the sales force!!! Do your home work? Be careful. Here is what NOT to do!

[scar5]

And Janna, if that was a Q-switch laser set to the correct parameters,

 

1) that should never happen

2) I am wrong yet again after having researched q switch laser, and black tattoo ink for some time

[Blake Bloxham]

Joe,

 

Excellent post! Thank you for sharing.

[scar5]

Scar 5,

 

Remarkably good post. You really have come of age.

[M1A1]

Joe,

So have you had this procedure done?

Thanks

[aaron1234]

Janna, wow. Those pictures are frightening but illuminating.

 

Joe, thanks for the informative post. I suppose I fit into the "diffuse" category although I don't necessarily have diffuse hair loss. I simply want lessen the contrast between my hair and scalp, and I want to free myself from the daily dermmatch applications.

 

scar5, one insinuation you are making is that business, i.e. monetary, motivations automatically lead to half-truths, misinformation, or outright lying by the seller. Sure, this is true for some business practices but I wouldn't paint with such a broad stroke. I recognize in my business that if I'm seen as a dishonest person by my clients that that would be bad for my business.

[Davis91]

Joe had the temp. SMP done--he stated so, I believe on the radio show he did. He even said if I recall he wanted to know more about the ink properties/chemicals because he had them in his noggin!

[M1A1]

Davis91,

Are you sure about this is? If he did, can you direct me to the link. And do you know if their were any pics.

Thanks,

[Jotronic]

M1A1,

 

No link needed. I had some work done, yes, but not much to speak of.

[Blake Bloxham]

Scar 5,

 

Remarkably good post. You really have come of age.

 

Awesome

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

Since you've had SMP done on yourself, I strongly encourage you to share your photos (including close-ups) and experience in this forum.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[socates123]

This is nice, will be following closely.