H&W SMP January 2013

[trapps99]

i think most places will use temporary, as ive been to a few consults ( not hasson and wong ) and ive made a few oobdervations..

temp ink is great, as ive heard the permanent turns blue and looks awful. I have dealt with Good look ink, and another in Florida and they were always shady...the final result of permanent would explain why . makes so much sense why these companies charge so much ..

 

Techs will always go a bit lighter to ensure naturallness, exapining if you want it darker you can go back... this will cost another seesion and you will be paying twice as much...playing way too conservative..

again if it is too dark it will fade anyways.....

 

it is a great tool and cant wait until perfected...

[scar5]

....temp ink is great, as ive heard the permanent turns blue and looks awful. ..

 

Oh come on man! Holy smokescreen!

 

Temp ink

IS!!!

great

because you've

HEARD!!!

perm turns blue and looks awful???

 

Please explain!!

[trapps99]

temp is is great for a few reasons..

hair could turn white .....

it might not look that great down the road and temp will fade,,

i have had smp done and getting it touched up is no big deal....

but you dont have to have had it one to figure out why temporary might be a better option...but im no expert so maybe the gentle men from H&W can explain further on my they dont use permanent..

but thats just me......if people want permanent thats their own business...

im sure they would have to perfect the permanent ink first and see how it effects long term before some clinics would offer it....

[Blake Bloxham]

From what I can gather, the trick with the ink is twofold: go temporary and avoid black pigment.

 

This seems to be the core of Milena's ink choice, and she helped incorporate SMP at Hasson & Wong, Shapiro Medical, and Feller Medical.

[scar5]

temp is is great for a few reasons..

hair could turn white .....

 

 

Trapps, I see and I agree on that score...and I must apologize if I seemed blunt, but what I was getting to was how you know black turns to blue. I wanna know what logic informs this.

 

1. I had black and it looks blue in certain light. Nevermind it turns to blue over time, it IS blue straight out of the bottle at read 'CERTAIN LIGHT CONDITIONS' . What they are I don't exactly know, but certain kinds of lights, probably fluorescent with a slightly blue tinge, bring out this color.

 

2. Many SMP providers use just black, including one of our sponsors here, as well as --(as far as I think, guess, can tell WARNING ! I am not sure) the biggest and most successful franchise still out there HIS. The reason the former justifies this choice is on the basis that buzzed hair looks indeed, a shade of blue/green under the surface of the skin as the red spectrum of light is absorbed by the skin itself.

 

3. If the hair turns, grey, silver or white, the blueish tone presumably compliments that, at least better than a brown, which must contain a yellow. But I am ready to doubt this in some respects, because the blue is so strong in certain light conditions.

 

4. Another reason I wonder is because of what brown is made of? How does it respond to laser?

(Temporary means that laser visits are unnecessary one would think.)

 

5. But I still can't help wondering, how on earth can a two year fade offer anything more than a few months at the optimal shading?

[scar5]

From what I can gather.... avoid black pigment.

.

 

Damn, and just for a change, I gathered wrong! Again. Good to know that after 25 years in this game, I am still making the major mistakes...

 

Then the is the only thing to be said for black is that it works extremely well with laser??

[scar5]

From what I can gather, the trick with the ink is twofold: go temporary and avoid black pigment.

 

This seems to be the core of Milena's ink choice, and she helped incorporate SMP at Hasson & Wong, Shapiro Medical, and Feller Medical.

 

Please elaborate.

 

Why is temporary good? Can you explain how many months at optimal tone one expects from a tattoo that fades to zero after two years - moreover has to start too dark in the first place until the outer layers of the epidermis shed the over spill?

 

Obviously, economically speaking, for the provider, associates, sponsors, hangers on, new friends, and anyone getting a bit of the Milena pie, temporary is a winner...but for the average Joe? And warning!! Saying that the permanent guys blow, is not a reason, it just means the permanent guys blow.

 

And about black?? Why is black bad?? What have you gathered? In my opinion, the black I got looks blue in certain light. But this is not a view I have heard others express, so unless you are buying my story, what have you 'gathered' to suggest black is bad?

[aaron1234]

scar5,

 

You ask a ton of good, necessary questions. We definitely need that regarding SMP. I would really like to see the pictures of your black ink job. Or maybe you have posted them already and I missed it. Pictures of your ink job will help the other members here put your skepticism in better context in their own research of SMP.

[Bill - Seemiller]

To be honest, I'm not a fan of "temporary" SMP. I understand its advantages, but to me, you're paying a relatively high cost for a result that is guaranteed to disappear and require repeating (most likely, at the same cost which includes traveling).

 

Frankly, I would only consider permanent SMP but then again, there are several disadvantages to this as well including fading, the natural aging/graying of hair leaving an un-natural look, etc.

 

I know several members have expressed interest in this and I'm not trying to discourage anyone. But in my opinion, temporary SMP, at best, provides some temporary relief from "feeling" bald. However, I suspect it may become a huge inconvenience and cost to those who continue having these procedures over the course of their lives.

 

Also, since SMP is an art as much as a technique, I wonder how each technician's artistry who only has a week "crash course" of experience and who now does most of their practicing on non-human scalps compares with Milena who has over 10 years of experience in mastering both the technique and the art of producing natural "appearing" hair. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on this as well.

 

Bill

[trapps99]

agreed.....i look at it more like you dont have to put on toppik or dermatch every single day and have to worry about it rubbing off ( for guys with fuller hair)

Not a great solution but makes less white scalp viewable when you look in the mirror...i cant comment on how natural looking it varies between artists as i havent seen any results up close

 

A perfect sol;ution would be a temp ink that lasted 5-7 years....

[aaron1234]

Bill, have you had a chance to view patients with temporary ink, namely Milena's technique, in person? If not, I'd strongly consider suggesting Pat (or yourself) to do some of his own investigative work on this. If reputable clinics like SMG and H&W think this can be worthwhile option for some patients then it maybe incumbent on the moderators of the site to really research this new approach. I'm sure you have already considered doing something like this.

 

I value Janna, Spex, and Jotronic's (definitely all skeptical of this procedure too until they saw Milena's patients in person) opinion on this issue. I value the moderator's opinion as well. But not having seen these patient's in person undermine's one, possibly legitimate, criticism of this new technique.

[Blake Bloxham]

Please elaborate.

 

Scar,

 

First, and foremost, thank you for raising these questions. Altogether, I do think SMP (especially temporary SMP) is an adequate adjunct treatment for a SELECT subsection of hair loss sufferers, and I do not think the technique should be overhyped. I've discussed the technique with several individuals who have either had it done or are related to an organization/entity that practices SMP, and they've helped convince me of its merit in a select group of balding individuals. However, this does not mean that I believe it's truly something for the masses.

 

Having said that, I think you raise some excellent questions, and I applaud the fact that you're doing as much diligent research as possible, and accepting some of the restrictions of SMP.

 

Why is temporary good? Can you explain how many months at optimal tone one expects from a tattoo that fades to zero after two years - moreover has to start too dark in the first place until the outer layers of the epidermis shed the over spill?

 

In my mind, temporary is good for just that reason: it's temporary. Like I said before, SMP is ideal for a very small patient population, but this does NOT mean it will only be acquired or performed on this population. Because of this, I feel like there are going to be instances where the finalized result is less than ideal. Frankly, I think we've seen this play out via a few cases on our forums. If individuals are going to seek a treatment that may be less than satisfactory, it mine as well be reversible. Furthermore, if it does work well, it can be continually redone or adapted as the hair loss sufferer sees fit.

 

I actually inquired about the "fading" process myself. I've been "reassured" of the following: the fading takes place anywhere between 6 to 24 months, and does not exhibit discoloration (i.e. turning blue or green) during this time. I've spoken with those who have undergone temporary SMP, those moving it into clinics, and those who have seen individuals coming back to clinics for touch-ups as the fading occurs, and I've been told the process is natural.

 

Now, at this point in time, my evidence is lacking. Clearly, I'm basing this "hunch" off what others (albeit individuals I trust) are saying, so I would never claim this as proof, or state my convictions with undying certainty.

 

Obviously, economically speaking, for the provider, associates, sponsors, hangers on, new friends, and anyone getting a bit of the Milena pie, temporary is a winner...but for the average Joe? And warning!! Saying that the permanent guys blow, is not a reason, it just means the permanent guys blow.

 

I think we're all waiting to see what the US temporary prices look like. Frankly, I think they will be fair, but most seeking the procedure will still think they are inflated. Furthermore, I'm not certain how big of a financial windfall these types of procedure will be for large, highly successful hair transplant clinics. If a physician is actually performing the procedure, he/she is doing it at a greatly reduced rate per hour when compared to the reimbursement for operating time; if a technician is performing the procedure, then this is one more technician who isn't assisting the surgeon with surgical procedures. This also doesn't take into account the increased overhead associated with adding on a new aspect to the clinic.

 

Additionally, I'm not certain if anyone moving toward temporary SMP is stating that the permanent clinics "blow." What's more, I know SMG collaborated on several cases with Good Look Ink in the past and I know of at least one respected physician on our site offering permanent SMP, so I don't know if the business will devolve into a "temporary good; permanent bad" mentality. However, I personally put more stock into temporary procedures, and, at this point in time, I do feel more comfortable with these for the time being. Again, I think we're all fairly new at this, so I could change my opinion at some point down the road.

 

And about black?? Why is black bad?? What have you gathered? In my opinion, the black I got looks blue in certain light. But this is not a view I have heard others express, so unless you are buying my story, what have you 'gathered' to suggest black is bad?

 

Initially, I was under the impression that black is what you wanted to use, and the brown pigmentation was the culprit when it comes to morphing to a blue or greenish hue. However, after discussing it with some individuals who've worked with Milena, it seems like the opposite holds true, and black pigmentation is what has the potential to appear green or blue.

 

Because of this, it's my understanding (and this has been confirmed by at least one individual) that Milena does not use any black pigmentation in her temporary SMP procedures.

 

In my mind, the least satisfactory SMP results I've seen are ones that have faded into a blue/green coloration, and, like you said before, this seems to be from the black ink. Because of this, I would feel more comfortable with a procedure that was both temporary and did not utilize the color-changing inks.

 

Hope this answered your question! I apologize (to any experts out there) if I'm "off" with any of my information here. I'm actively trying to learn all that I can about SMP, because I do think it has potential. However, in order for SMP to succeed, in my opinion, it needs the following:

 

1. transparency akin to the level at which hair transplant results are shared online; 2. proper training from those offering the procedure (which is why I'm glad to see it adopted by some of our top clinics); 3. a solid sense of realism with regard to what the procedure can offer; 4. ethical practitioners who are going to market and offer the procedure to the right patient; 5. a non-permanent aspect that can be reversed (without the additional cost/heartache of laser tattoo removal) if not satisfactory.

[Blake Bloxham]

Bill, have you had a chance to view patients with temporary ink, namely Milena's technique, in person? If not, I'd strongly consider suggesting Pat (or yourself) to do some of his own investigative work on this. If reputable clinics like SMG and H&W think this can be worthwhile option for some patients then it maybe incumbent on the moderators of the site to really research this new approach. I'm sure you have already considered doing something like this.

 

I value Janna, Spex, and Jotronic's (definitely all skeptical of this procedure too until they saw Milena's patients in person) opinion on this issue. I value the moderator's opinion as well. But not having seen these patient's in person undermine's one, possibly legitimate, criticism of this new technique.

 

Aaron,

 

I would love to see a Beauty Medical SMP case in person. As of now, I'm basing most of what I know off the word of those who HAVE seen these results in person, and it would be nice to garner some first-hand evidence. I think as more clinics start offering the procedure, it will become easier to find these patients, and I know I'd definitely be willing to meet with someone and help document cases for the community if it was a realistic option!

[Blake Bloxham]

agreed.....i look at it more like you dont have to put on toppik or dermatch every single day and have to worry about it rubbing off ( for guys with fuller hair)

Not a great solution but makes less white scalp viewable when you look in the mirror...i cant comment on how natural looking it varies between artists as i havent seen any results up close

 

A perfect sol;ution would be a temp ink that lasted 5-7 years....

 

Trapps,

 

This is kind of the way I view it was well; akin to applying some time of concealer for 6-24 months at a time. Is it a cure to hair loss? Absolutely not. Is it something for a NW VII? Absolutely not. Is it something that may benefit those with thinning hair, especially if they would like to keep it cropped shorter or even sport a "shaved" look? Possibly.

 

At this point in time, I think it's useful to look at SMP as this type of adjunct treatment, and make sure it isn't overhyped or marketed as something greater.

[Davis91]

Blake,

 

No way prices will be "fair" meaning creating a market that will consistently allow people from out of state to come in (pay travel costs) and have this done every 6-24 months. Clinics will set a price to justify the start up costs and hope ethat a sub-set of patients that are either a) wealthy enough to purchase it on a one time or recuring basis or b) affiliated the procedure with a HT as comlementary, perhaps at a slightly reduced price.

 

Best thing this does is create several markets in USA for temp SMP, advances the options/science and puts pressue on the HIS/GLIs to evolve their game.

[Blake Bloxham]

To be honest, I'm not a fan of "temporary" SMP. I understand its advantages, but to me, you're paying a relatively high cost for a result that is guaranteed to disappear and require repeating (most likely, at the same cost which includes traveling).

 

Frankly, I would only consider permanent SMP but then again, there are several disadvantages to this as well including fading, the natural aging/graying of hair leaving an un-natural look, etc.

 

I know several members have expressed interest in this and I'm not trying to discourage anyone. But in my opinion, temporary SMP, at best, provides some temporary relief from "feeling" bald. However, I suspect it may become a huge inconvenience and cost to those who continue having these procedures over the course of their lives.

 

Bill,

 

These are all very valid points, and I think only time will tell how patients react to temporary SMP and how well the procedure meets expectations. As of now, I think the most important thing is to not overhype SMP, and continually remind hair loss sufferers that it is best suited for a specific type of patient.

 

Also, since SMP is an art as much as a technique, I wonder how each technician's artistry who only has a week "crash course" of experience and who now does most of their practicing on non-human scalps compares with Milena who has over 10 years of experience in mastering both the technique and the art of producing natural "appearing" hair. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on this as well.

 

Joe shared some details about the Hasson and Wong training process earlier in the thread:

 

I won't comment on the "crash course" because I do not know what other clinics are doing. Our techs were there for a week and even now, after they have returned, they are practicing every day on dummies (no, not me) so that when Milena arrives in early January for their practical exam and certification they will have close to six weeks of practice under their belts. They spent a lot of time on theory and they told me that they were surprised about how much there was to learn. This training does not allow for other types of SMP to be performed such as lips, eyebrows etc.

 

Like you said before, Milena has perfected her technique for years, so it will be interesting to see how well it transitions when practiced by a different individual.

[trapps99]

Future HT doc....

great points about this procedure and i think we are all getting more educated by the minute with all these great comments and imput..

 

I think it should be a patients choice with the temp or permanent...i figure with one session being about a thousand bucks or more, after a few years that will add up..... This makes great business sense but again should be a choice. just like with hair lines its the patients responsibility to ensure they are aware of the pitfalls . and should be guided by the clinics as such..

i understand the clinics concern but it also will cost the consumers tons of money for the same procedure every year..

 

 

i think permanent in the donar scar region is a great option, especially if the hair is longer so not many will notice if its a tinge of blue... all depnds how the patient wants to be conservative, not the clinic....

But great good point by HT doc, it is for a small percentage that will work either great or not so great....

[Janna]

Blake,

 

I too think you did a great job of stating all your points and addressing questions on this thread. Perm and temp inks each have their own advantages and disadvantages. From what I have seen personally, the permanent ink isn't really permanent either. In fact, I was pretty surprised at how much had faded by 6 months. This was before we heard of the temp smp but I remember Dr. Shapiro saying that it was a good thing. I'm not saying it "blows" by any means but I do feel that this fact should be more well known.

 

We have not yet posted our prices but it will be approximately 1/2 of what Milena charges. I agree whole heartedly that she is the expert with years of experience behind her. For those who require an experience person, we'd refer them to her (note: we would not get any referral fees). However, we too have been practing and one of the technicians have prior experience with cosmetic tattoes and will likely hire an experience smp personnel in the near future. At Shapiro Medical, the physican will assess and evaulate the patient before any smp treatment. Then the work will be carried out by the trained technician so we're not concerned with the artistry.

 

The temp or the perm smp aren't for everyone so they need to research to figure out if they're the right candidate to pursue further with the smp clinics.

[scar5]

I am selling temporary cars as of next week. As you know, disposing of unwanted cars can be troublesome with disposal costs etc. Additionally cars are bad and no one wants their badness, except when you are desperate. My cars are good for two years and then they vanish! True than can only be driven at half speed and on two cylinders for the last three to six months, and they have an uncontrollable siren switched on for the first month, but temporary is temporary is good! No more fuss!

 

P.S. they are recommended by the finest guys you'll ever meet. And guess, what, you will be back in the showroom in no time to order a new one when you know your two years is up. (And I'll be buying my new yacht too)

 

Long live Detroit! But let's be honest, car salesman are oily too! Temporary is the way.

 

OK guys, hold on here please..

 

Bill,

Holy smoke, respect for a moderator! What are you doing, You will kill your own forum. Haven't you been warned??

 

Aaron

Much respect for your posts but I'm gonna spray here..

 

-Come on, Spex and Jotronic are stakeholders man!! What do you expect?? Saying you value their opinion (not generically, but on this issue) is nothing more than saying you like Donald Trump's new ties made in China. These guys are great guys and all and have helped thousands, but things change. This is business! Please, you have to discredit Spex and Jotronic on this issue. Do not consider their evidence in the court room of your mind!

 

-Suggesting Bill should see pictures in person and asking me to post my pictures b What? you know better than that?

Please read Haring Hats' posts. Compulsory!!

 

-Future Blake

I think you are conflating the issues. Saying that temporary is good because it is temporary is a circular argument that is great rhetorically but it distracts us from the real issue, how long is it good for? If I have five procedures over a ten-year period (and I know one does still care) I believe I will have, over that ten year period, no more than five years of coverage and certainly less than that of optimal coverage. And that is not to mention, the frequent trips, travel costs, hair cuts etc., Just like the old HT days, the very inconvenience SMP was supposed to counter.

 

So you thought that brown degrades badly (so did I, a well known assumption in the tattoo world is that brown is unstable and disappears quickly, hence few brown tattoos - not, IMO, necessarily bad for SMP though) and then you talked to MIlena!! and now you are a changed man? Of course! And Milena told you that black turns to blue green? Did she say that? Surprise!

 

We've all seen bad SMP by now. I don't know whether black is the culprit. In my case, I hate the black color because it tends to look blue in certain light. It has faded to some degree already bu the blue aspect of it is unchanged. If anything it has improved. It is my assumption that black itself, will look blue on my shiny balding scalp in certain light due to characterisitics of the ink, my skin and light. . And yes, I wish I could have had brown, BUTTT!! I researched and found that brown responds very poorly to laser, because the light colors in it can burn and turn dark. A Q-type laser set to a certain setting easily blasts out black.

So I figured I would get what 'the experts' told me, visit the laser shop to soften up the edges, as I had NO faith in their ability to listen to my instructions and every faith in their habitualized robotic one-sized fits all economically ultra-refined approach. (I was proven right)

 

The costs are market driven, and the market is in super hype mode. It looks like you could train a monkey to do this to a level that you could guarantee is standard. Notwithstanding, a dedicated artisan could render something better.

But hey, we have completely ignored not only the traditional permanent make-up industry - which have collectively clocked up millions and millions of hours doing women's eyebrows as well as the traditional tattoo industry which is even bigger and instead we put our faith in newbies who have a week course with Milena who in turn was sponsored by a couple of savvy HT salesman and a radio show jock!!

And we are full of reverence. And there must be sound reasons for this but I feel they are less about ink, pigment and skin and more about social networking, information sharing corridors and blind faith.

[Blake Bloxham]

Scar,

 

I really want to do my best to address all your questions and concerns, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to adequate address your issues. Please keep in mind that I'm really not promoting SMP, advocating SMP, or even supporting any clinic that is performing SMP, and my comments are strictly what I've learned thus far. Like I said before, I'm far from an expert at this point (though I think it's a little new to everyone), but I am doing my best to learn all that I can, because I do think it has applications.

 

 

-Future Blake

I think you are conflating the issues. Saying that temporary is good because it is temporary is a circular argument that is great rhetorically but it distracts us from the real issue, how long is it good for?

 

From how I understand it, 6-24 months. Whether or not the fading causes discoloration of the ink or results in an "awkward" phase for some time, I'm not certain. Like I said before, this is what I've been told by people who have had it done and seen individuals during the fading period. I'm not certain what constitutes "good," in your book, but this is simply the information I've gathered.

 

If I have five procedures over a ten-year period (and I know one does still care) I believe I will have, over that ten year period, no more than five years of coverage and certainly less than that of optimal coverage. And that is not to mention, the frequent trips, travel costs, hair cuts etc., Just like the old HT days, the very inconvenience SMP was supposed to counter.

 

The additional costs, travel, and time are definitely "cons" of temporary SMP. However, like I stated before, others may view this as part of the compromise of a non-permanent solution (which I think makes many potential patients more comfortable).

 

 

So you thought that brown degrades badly (so did I, a well known assumption in the tattoo world is that brown is unstable and disappears quickly, hence few brown tattoos - not, IMO, necessarily bad for SMP though) and then you talked to MIlena!! and now you are a changed man? Of course! And Milena told you that black turns to blue green? Did she say that? Surprise!

 

I'm not certain I see your point here: I made an assumption while trying to learn a process, did some additional research, discovered I was mistaken, and therefore altered my knowledge base. Isn't this the definition of a learning process? Like I said before, we're all learning about this as it evolves. Furthermore, I've actually never spoken to Milena, but, yes, the information came from her. If you believe there is a greater source for temporary SMP knowledge or that her viewpoint is skewed, please let me know where I can find additional information. I'm honestly eager to learn as much as I can.

 

 

We've all seen bad SMP by now. I don't know whether black is the culprit. In my case, I hate the black color because it tends to look blue in certain light. It has faded to some degree already bu the blue aspect of it is unchanged. If anything it has improved. It is my assumption that black itself, will look blue on my shiny balding scalp in certain light due to characterisitics of the ink, my skin and light. . And yes, I wish I could have had brown, BUTTT!! I researched and found that brown responds very poorly to laser, because the light colors in it can burn and turn dark. A Q-type laser set to a certain setting easily blasts out black.

So I figured I would get what 'the experts' told me, visit the laser shop to soften up the edges, as I had NO faith in their ability to listen to my instructions and every faith in their habitualized robotic one-sized fits all economically ultra-refined approach. (I was proven right)

 

You're right about the laser responding better to black pigmentation. Furthermore, most of the "worst" SMP fading cases I've seen (where the ink was blue or an odd purple-ish green) were straight black, permanent ink. Additionally, a situation where the result was not satisfactory is essentially the "number one" reason I support temporary opposed to permanent inking: if the work is bad, it will fade away and save the patient the heartache/financial strain of having to visit laser clinics. Granted, 6-24 months could be a very long time, but nothing is perfect, and this seems like the better of the two options.

 

 

The costs are market driven, and the market is in super hype mode. It looks like you could train a monkey to do this to a level that you could guarantee is standard. Notwithstanding, a dedicated artisan could render something better.

But hey, we have completely ignored not only the traditional permanent make-up industry - which have collectively clocked up millions and millions of hours doing women's eyebrows as well as the traditional tattoo industry which is even bigger and instead we put our faith in newbies who have a week course with Milena who in turn was sponsored by a couple of savvy HT salesman and a radio show jock!!

And we are full of reverence. And there must be sound reasons for this but I feel they are less about ink, pigment and skin and more about social networking, information sharing corridors and blind faith.

 

Milena does permanent make-up as well, and I don't think anyone is necessarily stopping people from visiting a traditional tattoo artist for a scalp tattoo. However, I do think the majority of individuals prefer the avenues that are currently being taken, and I like the involvement of trusted clinics that focus on hair restoration.

 

Again, I really hope it doesn't seem like I'm hyping or promoting this procedure. To be honest, I'm doing my best to learn all I can, stay objective, and continually state that I think SMP is best suited for a small and specific patient population.

[aaron1234]

Aaron

Much respect for your posts but I'm gonna spray here..

 

-Come on, Spex and Jotronic are stakeholders man!! What do you expect?? Saying you value their opinion (not generically, but on this issue) is nothing more than saying you like Donald Trump's new ties made in China. These guys are great guys and all and have helped thousands, but things change. This is business! Please, you have to discredit Spex and Jotronic on this issue. Do not consider their evidence in the court room of your mind.

 

Respect back at ya. I understand the business aspect you are suggesting in regards to clinic reps, but I've heard Spex & Joe both swear off ink many times long before Milena's technique hit the spotlight. I doubt they want to damage their hard earned reputation by sending back guys to the forums with blue/green ink jobs on their scalps. I assume that "H&W Gave Me A Blue Head" is not a forum post Joe would want to deal with. But hey, maybe you're right that I'm simply too trusting a fella.

 

Remember that FUE went through a similar type of hyping/scrutinizing process years before it became an industry standard. It's good to be asking questions like you are, but also try to keep an open mind. There may be something to this.

[Blake Bloxham]

Blake,

 

I too think you did a great job of stating all your points and addressing questions on this thread. Perm and temp inks each have their own advantages and disadvantages. From what I have seen personally, the permanent ink isn't really permanent either. In fact, I was pretty surprised at how much had faded by 6 months. This was before we heard of the temp smp but I remember Dr. Shapiro saying that it was a good thing. I'm not saying it "blows" by any means but I do feel that this fact should be more well known.

 

We have not yet posted our prices but it will be approximately 1/2 of what Milena charges. I agree whole heartedly that she is the expert with years of experience behind her. For those who require an experience person, we'd refer them to her (note: we would not get any referral fees). However, we too have been practing and one of the technicians have prior experience with cosmetic tattoes and will likely hire an experience smp personnel in the near future. At Shapiro Medical, the physican will assess and evaulate the patient before any smp treatment. Then the work will be carried out by the trained technician so we're not concerned with the artistry.

 

The temp or the perm smp aren't for everyone so they need to research to figure out if they're the right candidate to pursue further with the smp clinics.

 

Thanks, Janna!

[scar5]

I assume that "H&W Gave Me A Blue Head" is not a forum post Joe would want to deal with.

 

Temp ink is a very effective and low-risk way for a small group of connected people to make a lot of money off the average Harry looking for a solution and scared sh&tless about the consequences of it going bad..that's all I'm saying.

 

Joe/H&W will handle the flak with aplomb, (just think how they manage with strip scar complications- you really think they have no problems?) not that there will be much in this case- how hard is it, you can always just say, "Chill..., it is only temporary". In a years time you won't know it was there!"

 

Thing is, that Harry will send his pension check to them every two years for barely a few months of optimal coverage.

 

And to be honest, they already have contingencies. I can almost see the headlines already. "Scar 5 pretends to be worried about others' money and by the way, It's Official!! Milena's Announces Five Year Ink" We are glad to announce Milena is offering 5 year ink to all our valued customers!" Milena has refined.....etc.

 

To be honest, I'd rather have brown dots. I was fooled, again!!! But I feel stupid and humiliated on a regular basis as a long-term terminal customer in this wretched world of hair-coming and going and long cycle of hope- disappointment continues.

 

At least with temporary ink, you get no scar!

[azazelgs]

scar5,

 

I went to Milan just to see Milena's work because there was this dilemma in my mind ;

 

Milena's result's in Italian forum does not seem "good" when compared to other companies results. On the other hand, there were Joe and Spex talking on and on about it. At that time, both were not business wise involved in it. I personally both know how they are against smp. Then spex become consultant and I talked with him maybe a million times via pm and even on the phone. I talked with Joe about it. I mean was really confused telling myself " I really don't like what I see in pictures but there is this two credible guys saying to me you should see in person" ,so that's why I went.

 

Seeing is believing and I have zero business relation with Milena and what I tell you is it looks great and nothing like the other SMP.

 

Also , I have to disagree with you about your car example. I personally asked Milena that will you ever you permanent ink or an ink that will last more than 2 years. She told me that 2 year period is the optimum time for the ink formula. Making it last more than that means it changes color over time. So the time period have not come from business purposed decisions, it comes from the limitation of the formula.

 

Also, you are critising a "win-win" situation. Personally speaking, I don't want a "permanent" tattoo on my head. It is now offical that it will turn blue/green. Also having it temporary gives me the idea of "what's to lose?" . I mean I can't imagine how i feel when I'll have something on my head that I didn't like and won't go away and will turn blue/green.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am still considering of having it. You might say "why you still haven't done it if you are so sure about it?" . That's because I'm not lets do it type of guy. But I know that if I'm gonna do it , I'm doing it in Beauty Medical. I know you are looking it more business driven base and I respect that . I also have my own company and in many cases I look into nearly everything at that point . But believe me, this is not one of the aspects that you should look in. Hope I made myself clear.

[scar5]

It is now offical that it will turn blue/green..

 

 

What? How so?

 

How do you know that?

 

Azz, everything else sits with me fine. It is all good with me, and I take your point.