Hasson and Wong really say this?

[corvettester]

Dr. Feller,

 

Thank you for taking the time to review my 6 month update. Any opinions you have on my progress thus far, as well as my presentation and analysis of said progress, are welcomed.

 

Now to answer you questions, one by one…

 

My doctor has already made it crystal clear to me that if I am in any way dissatisfied, he will make it right. He has mentioned this to me at every follow up without being prompted by me for such assurances.

 

Will I continue to post my progress every two months, regardless of the outcome: absolutely yes! I firmly believe in full transparency. I think it does a great service to the community as well as prospective patients to document one’s HT progress… for good or ill.

 

When a patient has a less than optimal result, they should still post it. It’s not “taking their doctor to task” any more than it is stating the truth. If the doctor is a man of integrity and honesty, he has nothing to fear either way.

 

In fact, in cases of less than optimal results, it can really only benefit him as it will give him a chance to show to the world his commitment to his patients when things don’t go according to plan. The idea that a doctor would be so defensive and assume himself as being attacked, says more about the doctor than it does the patient.

 

I take issue with how you frame a patient’s complaints as “online warfare” or “taking the doctor to task.” This sort of thing should carry no negative connotation and should be encouraged by doctors and the community. You won’t find any doctors upset when a patient posts exceptional results.

 

To answer your question, if a portion of my hairline does not grow 6 months from now, I’ll do the right thing and wait another 6 months. I won’t freak out. If there is still no growth, after a total of 18 months, then I will discuss with my doctor the options. Although, 12 months will probably be enough to know. I’m not one to panic. When a problem arises, I deal with it.

 

 

Some doctors do refunds, some do not. Some do complimentary work, some do discounted work, and some do neither.

 

I knew before undergoing my HT what my doctor’s specific policy is. It’s basically the same as H&W, in my opinion. Therefore, it is up to the patient to know in advance what to expect from his doctor in case of a less than optimal result.

 

So to answer your question directly, it’s not a matter of what I would demand. I don’t even think in such terms. I trust Dr. Dorin to do the right thing even if he hadn’t affirmed it to me. So if it doesn’t grow, he’ll give a complimentary procedure and I won’t have to ask him to do the right thing! He will make the gesture. If everything goes well or not, I will make the gesture of reporting my result accurately and fairly.

 

I understand that you would insist on payment. Believe it or not, I respect your right to insist on payment and the principle behind that. I disagree with it, but only for personal reasons, not philosophical. Thus, nobody is calling you a Scrooge. Plus, the fact that you’re open about it should not cause any unfair remarks against you. It’s simply your policy… To each his own.

 

However, if my doctor and I couldn’t agree on the result, that would be a real shame. If he said it was good, yet I found it unacceptable, I’d have to have a long discussion with him about it. If our views were truly irreconcilable, I’d have to go elsewhere to get the result I wanted. Yes, I’d be very disappointed. Wouldn’t anyone?

 

I certainly would not hire a lawyer. But either way, I am committed to full transparency. If I felt mislead or that my doctor deceived me in anyway, then yes, I would bring it to the community. Why wouldn’t I? It’d be the right thing to do. I will post my result and honest opinion regardless of the outcome.

 

That is why HTN is so important. It acts as the last line of defense against deceptive practices and quacks.

 

Believe it or not, I really sympathize with a lot of doctors who have patients freaking out because they have limited growth 3 months or even 6 months post-op! What’s wrong with these guys? Did they not do ANY research? Though I admit, if I had minimal growth at 8 months post-op, I’d be pretty worried.

 

As you so eloquently put it, doctors and technicians are humans too and by definition incapable of perfection. Knowing this, it is entirely unreasonable to expect perfection… as I’m sure you agree. So I’m willing to work with my doctor. But if he were to throw me out in the cold, tell me I’m crazy and that I had unrealistic expectations, I’d be pissed! Wouldn’t you?

 

I do feel a sense of duty to the HTN community though. My reason is simple and doctors should take note: were it not for the HTN, I would not have undergone an HT. I had heard of HT before, and I had viewed certain clinic websites and even had a consultation with one.

 

But that simply was not enough for me. I didn’t trust it because all my information was coming from the people trying to sell me the product. I needed to hear other voices from a variety of doctors and experiences… the good and the bad.

 

Trust me, if I hadn’t come across any less than optimal results on the HTN, I would not have trusted it as a valid source. But it was emailing back and forth, texting, phone calls, etc… with former patients that did it for me.

 

The HTN provided that forum for me. I want to make sure I can give back by creating a detailed and comprehensive blog and contributing to thread topics while I sit at work on slow days at the office. HTN puts Facebook to shame!

 

I don’t believe in zealotry. I’m no man’s disciple. In fact, that is one of the things that turned me off to your practice Dr. Feller. The fanaticism with which some of your former patients speak of you is off-putting to me… but that is just my opinion.

 

As far as my expectations go, I’ve never expected wow results. I don’t see it enough to expect it. Too many variables involved. Plus, all the wow results that I’ve seen, at least that I find to be wow results, in my opinion, always are with patients with thick hair shafts, I have very thin hair. So my expectations are less than a lot of guys.

 

Also, I have to give special mention to Epileptic Sceptic. If there is one person whose personal story and contributions on the HTN I have found invaluable, it is ol’ ES. The guy is awesome. His posts smack of brutal honesty and realism… no nonsense, visceral straight-talk… that’s ES.

 

I just hope I can give to the community what he gave to me because the truth is, I’m pretty freaking happy with my results so far. I’m glad I decided to get an HT and I’m glad I chose Dr. Dorin.

 

In the end, it was a toss-up for me between T&D and H&W… with Rahal as a close second. I chose T&D for my first procedure for purely personal reasons. There are a lot of qualified doctors out there. Choosing one doesn't amount to rejecting another.

 

If I have in any way misrepresented my results online or given an unbalanced review, please inform me. That is the last thing I want to do, for the sake of the doctor and future patients.

 

I hope answer all your questions sufficiently and that this clears things up.

 

 

Corvettester

Edited April 21, 2011 by corvettester

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Bill,

Excellent post. Very well written.

 

Corvetestter,

 

I don't know if you realize how much some of your posts confuse concerned patients. You whisper sweet words of support in one ear, and then tell them they've been screwed by their clinic in the other. That helps nobody. You would do well to read Bills last post very slowly and closely.

 

 

1."It is true that I do support Dr. Hasson on this topic, but not at the expense of NotHappy".

This is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. What makes you think you can have it both ways? Confusing.

 

 

2." I am unabashedly pro-patient"

Why do you characterize the relationship between doctor and patient as an adversarial one? This is not a political debate or the superbowl. It's not Patients vs. Doctors. It's Doctor and Pateint vs. hairloss. Don't you see by writing such a statement you reveal yourself to be biased and willfully non-objective?

 

 

3. "Yes, I do believe Dr. Hasson is standing behind his work… now if only we could convince NotHappy!"

I see. If only he would get his mind "right".

 

 

4. "Throughout this unfolding drama, Dr. Hasson has remained professional, civil and cool-headed… as well as primarily concerned for the patient welfare! I think most would agree on that"

 

 

Hmmm, interesting double standard. When my patient Badluck came online much in the same manner NotHappy did, I responded in exactly the same way Dr. Hasson did. Yet according to you I was uncivil, arrogant, and defensive. I think you might want to check Dr. Hasson's response again. He wrote that NotHappy was acting manipulatively and maliciously. Which he most certainly was. Does that really sound as if his primary concern was for the patient welfare? Of course not, he was attacked and rightfully defended himself with the obvious truth. Interesting how you over looked this on the part of him and Jotronic, but attacked me and Spex for doing the same exact thing. You've got some explaining to do. But please don't bother.

 

5. " He is dissatisfied with his result, but his real pain stems from his feelings, founded or not, that he is not supported by H&W."

First of all, how do you know his real pain and feelings and who assigned you as the keeper of anyone's emotional well-being? Do you know Nothappy? Have you ever met him?

Jotronic is excellent at connecting with patients, if his efforts weren't enough "support" for Nothappy what would be and where would it end? Other than answering a concerned patients questions and inviting him back to the clinic, how much more support can be offered?

 

 

6. "...although both BadLuck and JM were unsatisfied with their results, the real problem was that they felt let down by their doctor in regard to post-op care and a sense of support… not to mention, let down by the community."

Again, how do you know their real problem? Did you know them personally? I did, you didn't, but amazingly that didn't stop you from posting on a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with you.

 

Where does the support end, Corvettester? I already answered a dozen of Malloy's phone calls in the first two weeks to answer the same exact questions over and over and also invited him to come back for a visit if he had any concerns but he declined for almost an entire year. In the meantime he engaged in the same activity NotHappy did by posting manipulated pictures and malicious posts.

 

Badluck never visited for a post op and refused to send me photos that demonstrated his so-called "failed" surgery. Did you know that? Didn't you notice he never posted a single photo of his results online? When I offered him to visit me for a follow up he refused. What more support can I give to someone who actively doesn't want to even show me his results?

 

7. "However, you’ve proven to be the exception to this rule. I remember a case involving you and two separate dissatisfied patients. In that case, it was you who threatened to start legal action against JM and Badluck. So I don’t understand how you can make such a claim…"

 

This just shows how you don't let your complete lack of knowledge of the facts of other people's business get in the way of your posting. But I'll let you in on a little secret since you are so interested in that which doesn't concern you: I didn't initiate legal action, Mr. Badluck did when he had a lawyer send me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. I asked for independent corroboration of his claims and he refused to provide it just as he refused to provide proof to me or the community of his results, so the claim went out the window. Then he made up that story about me doping him prior to surgery, a story he came to regret quite sorely. Mr. Malloy wanted to jump on that bandwagon and go for the ride, so I indulged him, much to his regret too. Just as Dr. Hasson did, I defended myself from two manipulative and malicious patients. Nothing more, and nothing less. Yet, when I defend myself you excoriate me or anyone who agrees with me, and then you flip the script when Dr. Hasson rightly defends himself. If only NotHappy could get his mind "right", correct?

 

Corvettester,

It is your right to post as much as you want on here. You can act sanctimonious and self righteous and pretend you are fighting for the "cause" on behalf of those who never asked you to. I see you are wearing a suit in your picture, I guess that signifies that you mean business. But before you jump to the keyboard try to realize that this is just an online forum and that the same courtesies and respect that apply in the real world should also apply here. This includes propriety, discretion, appropriateness, social grace, fair play, and civility.

[hdude46]

chalk another one up to a patients bad physiology i guess?

 

Hair Restoration Journal -8 months

[corvettester]

 

Corvetestter,

 

I don't know if you realize how much some of your posts confuse concerned patients. You whisper sweet words of support in one ear, and then tell them they've been screwed by their clinic in the other. That helps nobody. You would do well to read Bills last post very slowly and closely.

 

 

1."It is true that I do support Dr. Hasson on this topic, but not at the expense of NotHappy".

This is an excellent example of what I'm talking about. What makes you think you can have it both ways? Confusing.

 

 

Dr. Feller,

 

I do think I can have it both ways! Why can’t I support both? Why does it have to be doctor against patient?

 

I truly believe Dr. Hasson is standing behind his patient. I don’t think NotHappy realizes it though and I think he’s being difficult or he's confused. We don't know yet. It doesn’t make him a bad guy, he’s just panicking. I bet he’s going to come out of this with a different perspective when it’s all over.

 

 

I don't take the "me against the world" approach... you do. So don't talk about "adversarial" relationships. My first concern is with the patient. If that makes me biased, then I accept that. That is why I'm on the HTN: Created By and For Patients! Get that through your head.

 

 

 

Corvettester

[eddiemunster]

Dr. Feller - just two cents from an observer - you're making a poor impression on this thread. I find Corvet's points to be pretty reasonable, and you're coming off as defensive and somewhat boorish.

[corvettester]

"Throughout this unfolding drama, Dr. Hasson has remained professional, civil and cool-headed… as well as primarily concerned for the patient welfare! I think most would agree on that"

 

Hmmm, interesting double standard. When my patient Badluck came online much in the same manner NotHappy did, I responded in exactly the same way Dr. Hasson did. Yet according to you I was uncivil, arrogant, and defensive. I think you might want to check Dr. Hasson's response again. He wrote that NotHappy was acting manipulatively and maliciously. Which he most certainly was.

 

6. "...although both BadLuck and JM were unsatisfied with their results, the real problem was that they felt let down by their doctor in regard to post-op care and a sense of support… not to mention, let down by the community."

Again, how do you know their real problem? Did you know them personally? I did, you didn't, but amazingly that didn't stop you from posting on a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with you.

 

 

7. "However, you’ve proven to be the exception to this rule. I remember a case involving you and two separate dissatisfied patients. In that case, it was you who threatened to start legal action against JM and Badluck. So I don’t understand how you can make such a claim…"

 

This just shows how you don't let your complete lack of knowledge of the facts of other people's business get in the way of your posting. But I'll let you in on a little secret since you are so interested in that which doesn't concern you: I didn't initiate legal action, Mr. Badluck did when he had a lawyer send me a letter threatening me with a lawsuit. I asked for independent corroboration of his claims and he refused to provide it just as he refused to provide proof to me or the community of his results, so the claim went out the window. Then he made up that story about me doping him prior to surgery, a story he came to regret quite sorely. Mr. Malloy wanted to jump on that bandwagon and go for the ride, so I indulged him, much to his regret too. Just as Dr. Hasson did, I defended myself from two manipulative and malicious patients. Nothing more, and nothing less.

 

 

Dr. Feller,

 

Please don’t compare any of your online meltdowns to anything Dr. Hasson or Joetronic have said regarding NotHappy. It doesn’t even compare.

 

All it takes is a simple search for anyone to see what you said to Badluck, John Mallory, JustAGuy and BeHappy. Is that all of them? I can’t remember off hand because the list of your dissatisfied patients is getting so long.

 

I’ve only been on the forums for 7 months or so and I’ve never seen more complaints against any other doctor than you. That speaks volumes.

 

By the way, you claim that you didn’t inititate legal action against Badluck andJohn Mallory?

 

Really?

 

 

I can only base my opinion upon the information you post. I’ll provide you with a quote from your post dated 11.13.2010.

 

In your own words...

 

“I have already started the litigation process against Badluck for his false claims and lies. He will receive his summons soon.

 

Now Malloy has decided to get involved by inventing yet another lie and publishing it online. He too will now receive a lawsuit from me.

 

I will not respond on this thread to any questions or provocations.” Dr. Feller

 

 

 

Corvettester

[bonkerstonker]

I wouldn't mind this thread being locked now to be honest it's getting stupid with everyone arguing and attacking each other it's not helping anyone and any newbies reading this will just think we're all daft kids!

 

Deleting would be better because it goes off in so many directions my heads spinning.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

"All it takes is a simple search for anyone to see what you said to Badluck, John Mallory, JustAGuy and BeHappy. Is that all of them? I can’t remember off hand because the list of your dissatisfied patients is getting so long."

 

 

 

If someone CLAIMS online they are dissatisfied, is it necessarily valid? Apparently when it comes to my patients it is, but for some reason when it comes to Dr. Hasson's patients it isn't. Your very disingenuous quote above reveals in a nutshell not only your hypocrisy, but your nastiness as well.

 

 

 

Badluck never showed his results to me or anyone else and refused a follow up visit or my offers of help and support. No different from NotHappy. Yet in your view Badluck's claims are valid and NotHappys are not. Double standard.

 

JustAGuy showed one blurry photo of his hair wet and all messed up,refused to post more and refused a follow up visit. No different from NotHappy. Yet in your view JAG's claims are valid and NotHappys are not. Another double standard

 

John M showed only a few blurry manipulated photos online and wrote malicious unreasonable posts while refusing to visit for a follow up. No different from NotHappy. Yet in your view John M's views are valid and NotHappys are not. Yet another double standard.

 

How many double standards is that for you now?

 

By the eleventh month John M finally visits the office and shows results that would impress even the harshest HT critics. They were all the more impressive considering he was a repair patient and had agreed to do two more procedures in the future. Indeed, when these photos were put online not a single person agreed with his own assessment of his results. All were impressed. But John M STILL wanted to sling mud.

 

See John M's 11 month before/after photos below.

 

You should hope to be fortunate enough that your own results from your recent procedure look as good as John M's.

 

BeHappy is not my patient.

 

 

 

You think all doctors, including my friend Dr. Hasson, don't have mlutiple dissatisfied patients online? I'm the only one? I know you know better, and so does this community. But how many online complaints against me have been verified and validated? None.

 

You use generalizations, straw dummy arguments and childish personal attacks in all your incredibly long disjointed posts. That's nothing new for the online world, but I can see you are way too biased to reason or debate with. When it suits you, you flip the script and attempt to have things both ways.

 

The only difference between my patients and NotHappy is that I was their doctor, whom you don't like even though you've never met me or a patient of mine; and Dr. Hasson was NotHappy's doctor whom you do like even though you never met him or a patient of his.

 

Interesting though, for all your oozing and over the top admiration of Dr. Hasson you chose not to have your procedure with him.

 

I think that about does it, and so this is my last post and I will not be responding to any more posts on this thread.

 

John M. 11 month post op photos:

Edited April 22, 2011 by Dr. Alan Feller

[mahhong]

I have to side with the physicians and particularly Dr. Feller on this one just a bit.

 

corvettester - I think your posts have become a bit too vitriolic if I'm perfectly honest. You disagree with Dr. Feller and raise some interesting and potentially valid points, but you've let your argument descend into borderline personal insults now. Trying to insinuate Dr. Feller is some kind of sub-par, heavily criticised professional is unfair and downright wrong. Yes, there may have been some dissatisfied patients, but it's unfair to suggest the list is getting long. The list of very satisfied patients is infinitely longer.

 

I think the point Dr. Feller was trying to make is a perfectly valid and acceptable one. Like it or not, it is very easy for somebody to be dissatisfied with their results and to cause a problem for any doctor they so wish. The vast majority of patients will be perfectly right to be unhappy with their results because most people do their research, know what to expect, and are sensible enough to know honestly whether their results are acceptable or not. Some people, however, could just as easily kick up a fuss unless their results were anything less than stellar. I'm not making a commentary on any specific patients in this thread (I have not read beginning to end in enough detail), I'm simply making an observation.

 

The long story short - the contract and agreement between patient and doctor needs to be FAIR and EVEN. Dr. Feller's point was that doctors need as much respect as patients do regarding the investment they put into each procedure. In the same way I do agree it's unfair to put every bad result down to poor physiology, it's equally unfair to assume every bad result must mean endless sacrifice from the doctor to put right.

 

I think if any patient is dissatisfied with their results they should have the right to talk about it openly with their doctor (or with any other doctor if they feel so inclined). If there is even a modicum of legitimacy in the patient's disappointment I would also agree the doctor has the obligation to offer a free consult, discussion and evaluation with the patient and come up with a plan on what could be done and a fair system on how things should move forward.

 

Here is where the tables turn, however. Doctors run a business and they offer a service that comes with some degree of risk. If a patient falls victim to that risk through no fault of the doctor or his team, it is unfair to assume the burden of responsibility must continue to reside with the doctor. What Dr. Feller is trying to say is simple - this forum and the mindset of some of its members is in danger of making the Dr consistently accountable for fixing everything, all the time, whatever the circumstances.

 

That's not possible, end of story. If doctors start feeling pressured to fix problems they essentially had no ability to know about or stop, the floodgates are in danger of being opened. Where does that particular buck stop? Patients could start becoming increasingly expectant of the quality of the results. "You said I'd possibly look like that guy and I don't, fix it!" would start becoming the mentality of many patients. Before long, exceptional results would be unfairly expected and not hoped for. And disappointing results would be massacred along with the reputation of the doctor. That is unfair for law abiding, upstanding doctors, none of whom will ever get it right all of the time.

 

In short, this forum is not the place to decide results or the reputation of doctors. corvettester - you are now a prime example of the problem, if I'm honest. You've named Dr. Feller, who is clearly a successful and considerate professional, a bad doctor with a growing list of unhappy patients. That's not true. But if these posts are allowed to continue willy-nilly, Dr. Feller's reputation and business could become tarnished unnecessarily. He came on this thread to defend his colleagues but is now in danger of being made out as some sort of enemy to the casual browser who might be considering their next procedure.

 

It is very cheap for patients and members to come on here and throw all sorts of names and accusations at doctors. I agree 100% freedom of speech is essential here, but that cuts both ways. Dr. Feller is concerned the bar is being set too high, too often, and I'm liable to agree with him. Some people are beginning to believe that anything less than the "wow" factor is a bad result the doctor should answer for. But if the bad result is down to bad luck the doctor was unable to foresee then it's unfair to tarnish that doctor because of it. And this forum is not the place to make absolute judgement on any individual's results or reasons for them. That belongs in the private consultations between doctors and their patients.

 

In my opinion we all need to be careful how cheaply we throw about accusations and hearsay on these forums. That throwaway insult or half-baked commentary could well be viewed as the cold hard truth to the next casual browser who comes here. Dr. Feller has posted consistently good results here and in my opinion has been by and large excellent in his relationship with patients. That well earned reputation is more easily undermined by us than it is earned by the doctors - it is worth thinking about what we all say next time we say it.

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and input on here and doctors should be and are liable for their results. But they cannot turn everything into magic and there will always be someone who has dismal results despite no wrong being done. At that point, these sorts of threads become pointless. The only thing that matters is the patient expressing their dissatisfaction and the doctor's express concerns and desire to re-evaluate the patient at their convenience. The speculation and antagonising that comes afterwards is all cheap talk. Dr. Feller has quite admirably come on here to defend his colleagues and by page 14 there are deep insinuations about his entire career - insinuations that could have an impact on his work unfairly.

 

I feel deeply for patients that have poor results, but I also feel deeply for doctors who spend years training, learning and developing their craft. They should be fully accountable for their work, good and bad, and should always put the patient first. But the line between putting the patient first and feeling the obligation to bend over backwards for every patient less than satisfied is a thin one. Hair transplantation is a risky business. Results are more consistent these days but can never be expected. It is dangerous for the entire industry if we begin to believe they should be expected or that, if they're not delivered, doctors should be doling out refunds and freebies all the time even when they're convinced they're not at fault. Too much of that and the best doctors will be disillusioned with how hard it is to keep their reputations and pack off from the industry all together - much to our collective disadvantage.

 

It is not a patient vs. doctor world we live in. But as much as we need to hold our doctors to account, we also need to respect them and be thankful for them. Talk is cheap and easy but consistent, professional results take many years and much sacrifice to earn. Let us all be careful how quick we are to undermine them when arguments break out here.

[EpilepticSceptic]

Lorenzo, you’re a joke. You come on here patronizing everybody who says something contrary to your thinking. You call Hariri’s comments rubbish while yours exceeds rubbish in every manner. You want to discredit members of the community by calling them one dimensional thinkers because you have the inside scoop on what goes on in the ht process. So, “all you one or two time ht patients your experience and knowledge doesn't mean anything stacked up against Lorenzo” and of course those that never had an ht "don't bother to speak". I guess instead of us commenting on this thread, why don't we leave it up to you. Maybe you can even take Joe's job. On second thought I hear the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders have and opening. I used to have huge respect for H&W but the more vile you spew out the more I become disenchanted. Like i said you do more harm to them then help them.

 

 

 

C'mon man, give Lorenzo a break here. Yes, he does come accross a bit like a bulldog at times -- but I think he is a well intended, honest bulldog.

 

Dude, it's obvious to me that you are a Rahal cheeleader. That's fine, as you should be cause he was your doc and your results are good. He's a great doc with a great staff -- no question in my mind about that. But for some reason by reading your posts I'm convinced that if this thread was about Rahal your tone would not be much different from Lorenzo's. You (and Hariri) seem to think of Rahal in the same way that Lorenzo thinks of Hasson. I don't really see you guys questioning Rahal's staff and techs. And c'mon dude, Hariri's comments were a craftily worded "low blow" to the good doctor H and his staff; and I (or Lorenzo) weren't the only ones who picked up on that BTW.

 

I remember in the old days on HTN people would often take it real personal if they had great results from a doc and somebody started taking slags at them; I didn't really understand that back then, but now (after having a HT) it makes more sense. If your experience at that clinic was top notch in every way and the results really great then when peeple come on and start slinging the mud it just doesn't sit well with you.

 

Consider that Lorenzo has likely seen many hundreds of HT cases up close and personal at the H & W clinic over the years; so it's obvious that he has alot more practical knowledge about HTs than either you or I do.

[EpilepticSceptic]

This is really a GREAT, well thought out post and I have to agree with it.

 

Unfortunately, many newbies to the HT community don't have enough research years under their belt to realize that they are talking online with docs who were part of pioneering the very advances in the HT field that we come to take for granted.

 

Every single day countless less fortunate victims are butchered by sub par HT docs/clinics because they were not smart (or lucky) enough to find this website. We are talking about things like pitting, cobblestoning, doll's hair minigrafts, absurdly low hairlines, ungodly stretched scars, and the list goes on and on.

 

IMO after reading more of Dr. Feller's posts I become more impressed with him; I say this because he's brutally honest and places everything on the table. The is exactly the type of honesty that newbies should be looking for IMO when researching HTs -- it may actually convince you to NOT get a HT at all, which for many (especially the 25 and younger crowd) might years later be realized as the best thing that never happened to them.

 

I must say that I agree with just about everything Dr. Feller wrote in his many posts here. The "risk" factor applies to ANY type of surgery and should not be overlooked. You can take any 2 patients who need, let's say, a surgery to remove cancer from thier colon. Ask any doctor in this field if he/she can guaruntee success and/or that results will not vary between different patients and see the answer you will get.

 

People here need to remember that these are doctors and they have the practical experience of having performed surgery on thousands of patients over the span of many years; so they have personally been able to witness how the "physiology" factor is a very real thing and that, even under the best circumstances, some patients will not get the results that others get even though characterisitcs may have looked very favorable pre-surgery.

 

I recently had a minor dental surgery to save a tooth that looked very near beyond hope on the Xray for anything other than a full blown root canal. I remember the dentist REPEATEDLY warning me that chances weren't even as good as 50/50 but he would give it a try anyway. I was lucky as it turned out successful, but there were no guaruntees and he was emphatic about stressing that point.

 

I think we are very lucky that the top HT docs are not charging double or even triple the amount they are asking. In the old days I believe it was like $30 per graft for doll hair plugs. If that was in 1980 then that would be more like $100 per graft today. Do the math and tell me that we are not very, very lucky today that excellent docs/clinics are out there with rates that we can actually afford !

 

 

I have to side with the physicians and particularly Dr. Feller on this one just a bit.

 

corvettester - I think your posts have become a bit too vitriolic if I'm perfectly honest. You disagree with Dr. Feller and raise some interesting and potentially valid points, but you've let your argument descend into borderline personal insults now. Trying to insinuate Dr. Feller is some kind of sub-par, heavily criticised professional is unfair and downright wrong. Yes, there may have been some dissatisfied patients, but it's unfair to suggest the list is getting long. The list of very satisfied patients is infinitely longer.

 

I think the point Dr. Feller was trying to make is a perfectly valid and acceptable one. Like it or not, it is very easy for somebody to be dissatisfied with their results and to cause a problem for any doctor they so wish. The vast majority of patients will be perfectly right to be unhappy with their results because most people do their research, know what to expect, and are sensible enough to know honestly whether their results are acceptable or not. Some people, however, could just as easily kick up a fuss unless their results were anything less than stellar. I'm not making a commentary on any specific patients in this thread (I have not read beginning to end in enough detail), I'm simply making an observation.

 

The long story short - the contract and agreement between patient and doctor needs to be FAIR and EVEN. Dr. Feller's point was that doctors need as much respect as patients do regarding the investment they put into each procedure. In the same way I do agree it's unfair to put every bad result down to poor physiology, it's equally unfair to assume every bad result must mean endless sacrifice from the doctor to put right.

 

I think if any patient is dissatisfied with their results they should have the right to talk about it openly with their doctor (or with any other doctor if they feel so inclined). If there is even a modicum of legitimacy in the patient's disappointment I would also agree the doctor has the obligation to offer a free consult, discussion and evaluation with the patient and come up with a plan on what could be done and a fair system on how things should move forward.

 

Here is where the tables turn, however. Doctors run a business and they offer a service that comes with some degree of risk. If a patient falls victim to that risk through no fault of the doctor or his team, it is unfair to assume the burden of responsibility must continue to reside with the doctor. What Dr. Feller is trying to say is simple - this forum and the mindset of some of its members is in danger of making the Dr consistently accountable for fixing everything, all the time, whatever the circumstances.

 

That's not possible, end of story. If doctors start feeling pressured to fix problems they essentially had no ability to know about or stop, the floodgates are in danger of being opened. Where does that particular buck stop? Patients could start becoming increasingly expectant of the quality of the results. "You said I'd possibly look like that guy and I don't, fix it!" would start becoming the mentality of many patients. Before long, exceptional results would be unfairly expected and not hoped for. And disappointing results would be massacred along with the reputation of the doctor. That is unfair for law abiding, upstanding doctors, none of whom will ever get it right all of the time.

 

In short, this forum is not the place to decide results or the reputation of doctors. corvettester - you are now a prime example of the problem, if I'm honest. You've named Dr. Feller, who is clearly a successful and considerate professional, a bad doctor with a growing list of unhappy patients. That's not true. But if these posts are allowed to continue willy-nilly, Dr. Feller's reputation and business could become tarnished unnecessarily. He came on this thread to defend his colleagues but is now in danger of being made out as some sort of enemy to the casual browser who might be considering their next procedure.

 

It is very cheap for patients and members to come on here and throw all sorts of names and accusations at doctors. I agree 100% freedom of speech is essential here, but that cuts both ways. Dr. Feller is concerned the bar is being set too high, too often, and I'm liable to agree with him. Some people are beginning to believe that anything less than the "wow" factor is a bad result the doctor should answer for. But if the bad result is down to bad luck the doctor was unable to foresee then it's unfair to tarnish that doctor because of it. And this forum is not the place to make absolute judgement on any individual's results or reasons for them. That belongs in the private consultations between doctors and their patients.

 

In my opinion we all need to be careful how cheaply we throw about accusations and hearsay on these forums. That throwaway insult or half-baked commentary could well be viewed as the cold hard truth to the next casual browser who comes here. Dr. Feller has posted consistently good results here and in my opinion has been by and large excellent in his relationship with patients. That well earned reputation is more easily undermined by us than it is earned by the doctors - it is worth thinking about what we all say next time we say it.

 

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and input on here and doctors should be and are liable for their results. But they cannot turn everything into magic and there will always be someone who has dismal results despite no wrong being done. At that point, these sorts of threads become pointless. The only thing that matters is the patient expressing their dissatisfaction and the doctor's express concerns and desire to re-evaluate the patient at their convenience. The speculation and antagonising that comes afterwards is all cheap talk. Dr. Feller has quite admirably come on here to defend his colleagues and by page 14 there are deep insinuations about his entire career - insinuations that could have an impact on his work unfairly.

 

I feel deeply for patients that have poor results, but I also feel deeply for doctors who spend years training, learning and developing their craft. They should be fully accountable for their work, good and bad, and should always put the patient first. But the line between putting the patient first and feeling the obligation to bend over backwards for every patient less than satisfied is a thin one. Hair transplantation is a risky business. Results are more consistent these days but can never be expected. It is dangerous for the entire industry if we begin to believe they should be expected or that, if they're not delivered, doctors should be doling out refunds and freebies all the time even when they're convinced they're not at fault. Too much of that and the best doctors will be disillusioned with how hard it is to keep their reputations and pack off from the industry all together - much to our collective disadvantage.

 

It is not a patient vs. doctor world we live in. But as much as we need to hold our doctors to account, we also need to respect them and be thankful for them. Talk is cheap and easy but consistent, professional results take many years and much sacrifice to earn. Let us all be careful how quick we are to undermine them when arguments break out here.

Edited April 22, 2011 by EpilepticSceptic

[corvettester]

Mahhang,

 

I like your post. It's very well thought out and you make several valid points.

 

However, just to clarify, I have never said nor insinuated that Dr. Feller produces poor results or is a sub-par physician. All the cases I referred to were with issues of follow-up care, communication, and patients feeling that their doctor did not support them.

 

It simply doesn't matter how many photos Dr. Feller claims that they sent him or did not send him... in all the cases, the results were irrelevant as far as I am concerned. My concerns were always with how the patients were treated for daring to tell their story.

 

Again, I always waited for Dr. Feller to respond to each patient before I chimed in. It was his crude language, bullying tactics and threats of litigation that I find so distasteful... among other things.

 

And yes, I think it's fair to mention such complaints for two reasons. One is that these types of threads tend to get locked and therefore buried away under all the other posts so that nobody can every find them or so that newbies are not aware of them.

 

The second reason is that I have seen more complaints against Dr. Feller than any other doctor on the HTN. Why is it always Dr. Feller? Why not other docs? I've only been on the forums 7 months, yet I've seen three really nasty cases involving him. This isn't just my opinion. I would be remiss not to acknowledge it.

 

But yes, I agree that this thread has run its course. At this point, it's probably better to just drop it. You'll never seen me mentioning JAG, BL or JM every time a newbie comes to the forum asking about Feller or NY doctors. Nobody is trying to malign his reputation. However, I'm not going to forget the way he responded to those three members as well as the community. If you think I'm exaggerating, please go read for yourself.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

 

Corvettester

[hairthere]

"The second reason is that I have seen more complaints against Dr. Feller than any other doctor on the HTN. Why is it always Dr. Feller? Why not other docs? I've only been on the forums 7 months, yet I've seen three really nasty cases involving him. This isn't just my opinion. I would be remiss not to acknowledge it."

 

I've been on this forum and another one like it for over 4 years. If you think other top clinics haven't had complaints against them you are sorely mistaken. And not just failed surgeries, customer service issues, too. It's the nature of the business. These "nasty" cases of Dr. Feller you have mentioned all seemed to follow a pattern: unhappy guys unwilling to let the doctor see the results in person or show proper photographic evidence.

 

How would you react if a customer of yours started blasting you online without giving you the opportunity to really fix the issue, if indeed there was one? Would you sit by idly and let your hard-earned, good reputation be sullied? Dr. Hasson responded to this thread by saying the patient was being malicious and deceptive. Perhaps his delivery was rosier than Dr. Feller's, but make no mistake, the crux of his response was the same.

Edited April 22, 2011 by hairthere

[Anouar]

Es, Since this thread has gone way of course. You can pm and we can discuss who cheers the loudest as Lorenzo has asked my nicely to do.

[ej]

Corvettetester ,

 

You appear to have followed Dr Feller`s postings with an almost ` unhealthy ` interest , you quote patients and inparticular one patient who I think had an outstanding result ! When you mentioned these in your words "dissatisfied patients " why did you not add a little balance to the thread by quoting the results of the several patients Dr Feller has helped out by working on them for free !!.. ( you can do a search on them also !! ) do you not agree that this would paint a more realistic and honest picture for forum members ,

 

You refer to Dr Feller`s contributions as a ` meltdown ` however reading these posts from you clearly shows its you with the ` hostile intent ` , not many Drs take the time to come on the forums and contribute in way that is beneficial to us , Dr Feller is such a Dr and it would be a shame if he decided to contribute less due to what I would describe as ` personal attacks ` whatever your angle or agenda is please drop it for the benefit of the forum

 

ej

[bonkerstonker]

To be fair Dr feller is a stand up guy, he spends quite a lot of time talking to us when he really doesn't have to and no one can say someone who spends so much time on here doesn't care or is hiding from his work.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

 

I'm going to add a couple of closing thoughts and then I'm going to lock this thread until we have an update from NotHappy and/or Hasson and Wong regarding his case. While many excellent points were made from various patient members and physicians, we've really gone off the beaten path now and I'm concerned that this topic has become so convoluted with various topics that the original purpose of this topic which was to discuss NotHappy's concerns and results has been forgotten.

 

For the record, I reject Dr. Feller's view that every case of poor results (even in the best hands) must be chalked up to a patient's physiology unless proven otherwise by the patient. This practically waves a physician's liability and simply put, it's not always true. The reality is, while hair transplant surgery is a relatively minor outpatient procedure, a number of variables must be considered when evaluating poor growth. I feel strongly that physicians should always evaluate their quality assurance strategies during a procedure, especially if/when cases of poor growth occur. Even technicians with loads of experience can have a bad day and/or become fatigued. But a physician's job is to constantly evaluate their and their teams surgical methods and strategies and constantly make them better. In my opinion, all physicians should take poor growth and other complications seriously, evaluate what may or may not have gone wrong during the procedure, and emphatically work with the patient to give him/her the head of hair he/she deserves and paid for. Even if its discovered that no problems occurred during the procedure, in my opinion, there's no reason why a quality physician shouldn't communicate and work emphatically with their patient to help them get the results they've ultimately paid for.

 

That said, patient physiology is also a very real reason why problems can occur. Unfortunately, because hair transplantatoin is not an exact science, determining which individuals are at higher risk for complications and/or poor growth before the procedure is virtually impossible at this time. My hope is that the dedicated surgeons in this field, such as those recommended by this community can develop methods of testing prospective patients beforehand and become better at determining which patients are at higher risk for problems. At the very least, if prospective patients know ahead of time that their own physiology may affect the result, they can make a more informed decision before entering into their procedure.

 

There are dozens of factors I could list here as potential problems which includes a combination of surgical factors (the "H" factor) and physiology (the "X" factor). But the reality is, both types of issues exist and neither should be automatically dismissed by the physician nor by the patient when evaluating issues of poor growth and/or other complications. In my opinion, however, the purpose of discovery of the problem is not to determine whether or not the physician should help the patient, which should be a given, but to improve their knowledge of potential problems that can occur and their overall practice moving forward.

 

While a physician should be regularly evaluating their techniques and quality assurance strategies during a procedure, the occasional poor result doesn't automatically transform them into a subpar physician. Thus, I also feel strongly that patients and forum members shouldn't be so quick to blame and point fingers at quality doctors and put them in the same category as physicians still using out of date techniques and regularly producing subpar results.

 

Frankly, instead of "us" (the patients) verses "them" (the physicians), I'd rather see a healthy collaboration between the educated patients of this community and the dedicated physicians like those recommended by our community to make our hair restoration dreams a reality.

 

After all, this community was built on a trust established between Pat Hennessey, publisher of the Hair Transplant Network and his hair transplant surgeon, Coalition member Dr. Ron Shapiro. Because Pat was ecstatic about his own hair restoration results, he started a website to share his hair transplant experience and photos and over time, dedicated his life to prescreening and recommending quality physicians and providing a place for patients like himself to share their genuine experiences and photos.

 

While I strongly feel that patients ought to be very careful during their research and physician selection process, the quality physicians dedicated to providing their patients with the very best results, such as Hasson and Wong and the others recommended by this community are not the enemy. Let's all work together to make sure all patients are getting the very best instead of battling each other and creating unnecessary dissention.

 

I hope the next time patient concerns arise, we can remember the above and work together to support the patient while encouraging both the patient and physician to collaborate on a fair and reasonable resolution that will provide the patient with the results he/she ultimately deserves.

 

For now, I will be closing this topic but will re-open it once we get an update from UnHappy and/or Hasson and Wong regarding this case.

 

Onwards and Upwards,

 

Bill