Regrets.

[HunkyMonkey]

I had a birth mark removed recently. When asking about the scar the plastic surgeon told me that scarring is down the the individual and various factors. Younger people tend to scar more aggressively whereas older people tend to scar less. Some peoples skin are more prone to thick visible scars, whereas others are lucky enough for it to blend in well. So despite the HT surgeons best efforts, some people will end up with bad scars.

[pianoman99]

Sparky/creeping back,

 

Well I look worse that both of you, so think yourself lucky !

 

Seriously - after many early 90s strip HT, I know what its like to let it dominate your life. Getting a hair cut is tinged with shame and embarrassment. For me - the scar was the least of my problems. But from this point on, you have to look forward - I made a bad decision when I was 22 but I was vulnerable, depressed and fell prey to the sales technique. Ive stopped blaming myself, andHTs are so much better now, and Ive had to bite the bullet and try to get it fixed.

 

If you are happy with the front, then I have some sympathy with wylie - in that a wide scar can be dealt with. See Spex's results.

I have just had a "repair" job (well, proper single grafts, in between micro/mini/plugs) and for the first time in year, feel hopeful about my hair. I still have a big wide scar at the back - and may possible have FUE sessions into this scar in the future, to fix this.

[Sparky]

I'm not gonna think myself lucky just because somebody else looks worse, TBH I only care about my head because well, its my head.

 

There are still surgeons doing plug surgery aswell by the way.

[creepingback]

Hey sparky, I agree although I realize things could be worse it still doesn't change how I feel about my personal out come. What I thought would be a positive change has turned into the opposite. I did my research and thought about this decision for a long time... then left it up to my doctor.. I would have never gone through with it had I been told that my sides were thin and a scar would be visible. I am unable to afford any repairs and wish I never did this.

[Tsakalos]

Hey sparky, I agree although I realize things could be worse it still doesn't change how I feel about my personal out come. What I thought would be a positive change has turned into the opposite. I did my research and thought about this decision for a long time... then left it up to my doctor.. I would have never gone through with it had I been told that my sides were thin and a scar would be visible. I am unable to afford any repairs and wish I never did this.

 

hi, do u have any pics or blog about this ht u are unhappy with ?

[TakingThePlunge]

I Have been following this thread closely and I wanted to take a moment to thank all of the posters for sharing their experiences. It is important for prospective hair transplant patients to not only see the best, the average and the below average but to also know that there has been and, in some cases, still remains a potential for very undesirable results even in the best hands.

 

I count my lucky stars all the time that I was as poor as I was in the early 90's when I went for my first hair transplant consultations. A balding friend and I made a road trip to Los Angeles to visit Bosley. As bad as their reputations is, I have to give them credit because they told me I wasn't yet a candidate and to return when my mature hairline became worse. I remember the brochure they gave me. It advertised flap procedures and scalp reductions. That all seems so barbaric at this point in time.

 

That answer wasn't good enough for me so I visited Dr. Shelley Friedman in Scottsdale. Dr. Friedman is a great guy and he also told me I wasn't yet a candidate and to return in the future.

 

That still wasn't good enough for me so I went to a really dumpy, ugly, run down clinic in Mesa, AZ and, wouldn't you know it, they said I was a candidate and for only $10,000 they would restore my hairline. If I'd had the money, I would have done it in a heartbeat and I can't imagine what damage I might have endured at their hands.

 

You're right guys, its not your fault. Hair loss has made most of us vulnerable at one time or another and it's easy for even the smartest and most streetwise of us to fall prey to unscrupulous salesmen promising us the world for only a few thousand dollars.

 

I do need to point out that, in spite of my less than stellar growth the first time around, my growth looks totally natural and my scar was perfect and I'm hoping this second time will be the same.

 

I remember thinking before my first hair transplant that I was so miserable with how I looked that it couldn't possibly be worse. Now I know that it could have and, again, I want to thank you all for your courage and your honesty in sharing you experiences with me and the rest of the community.

 

I truly wish the best for you and I hope that treatments are on the horizon that will help make things better for you.

 

All the best,

[creepingback]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Sometimes it can be a relief just to talk about it.

I tried to take photos today and they don't really show the actual real life results... so there is no point in posting them.

The other day walking out of work I heard a work mate say... " he should have stuck with a toupee" it has turned into a joke at my expense. I feel beaten down and just want everyone who is thinking about getting hair restoration no matter how much you research and think your prepared that your results may not meet your expectations or for that matter even come close. I personally feel defeated and dont know whats next for me.

Edited June 15, 2010 by creepingback

[FellerTheHairMaster]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Sometimes it can be a relief just to talk about it.

I tried to take photos today and they don't really show the actual real life results... so there is no point in posting them.

The other day walking out of work I heard a work mate say... " he should have stuck with a toupee" it has turned into a joke at my expense. I feel beaten down and just want everyone who is thinking about getting hair restoration no matter how much you research and think your prepared that your results may not meet your expectations or for that matter even come close. I personally feel defeated and dont know whats next for me.

 

Hey Buddy,

I really feel for you and trully wish you the best. I feel it is not something that can't be fixed in the future. Granted you may not have the money now but it's not something that is unfixable. I am new to this forum but based on what I have read it seems as though it is fixable. Stay strong this will only make you stronger as a person. Maybe not today or next month but you can set this as one of your future goals. I would atleast have Dr. Feller look at it to give you his advice and you can eithergo forward with it or wait. You are young and have plenty of time.

[getitoverwith]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Sometimes it can be a relief just to talk about it.

I tried to take photos today and they don't really show the actual real life results... so there is no point in posting them.

The other day walking out of work I heard a work mate say... " he should have stuck with a toupee" it has turned into a joke at my expense. I feel beaten down and just want everyone who is thinking about getting hair restoration no matter how much you research and think your prepared that your results may not meet your expectations or for that matter even come close. I personally feel defeated and dont know whats next for me.

 

Stay positive, my friend... my heart goes out reading your thread and your eagerness to make sure others dont get into this unless they are really really sure of their doc. Be strong.

 

Thanks.

[TheEmperor]

Hi, thanks for your responses. Yes my Doctor was Dr. Path. Please don't get me wrong I think hes a great doctor and did a fine job. It's not that my scar is wide it's more that my hair is so fine and thin on the sides that makes it noticeable along with the fact that on one side over my ear the hair around the scar enhances it. Unfortunatly I am not in a position to get this repaired if that's possible and having dirty blond hair makes it difficult to match a concealer.. Yes, a line around my head shouldn't affect my social life and give me anxiety, but it does.

 

Yes, I feel a similar way. The first procedure did not live to my expectations, and the process of extracting hair really thins out an already fine donor area. It makes it hard to hide the scar. Also, the act of removing a strip makes the bald area larger. My two strip surgeries took me from a NW5 to a NW6.

 

The baldness pattern was well established for 15 years, and the rim hair is strong. Despite assurances before and after #1, that the strip would not (and did not) make the bald area larger, I went for a second procedure. Now I realize the folly of this move, as no amount of grafts will be able to take me back to a NW5. Interestingly, the remaining hair in the back which used to grow forward, now grows upwards. This would help hide the bald area if I were to develop some sort of combover. There is good hair, bad hair, and WEIRD hair. I am venturing into the "weird hair" zone.

 

Also, I was told my hair was between medium and fine, yet I think this meant the side hair was fine and back hair medium. I was also told my result would be better than Jotronic.

 

The problem is that the fine areas (probably 2/3rds of donor) do not provide good donor and makes it hard to hide the scar. Every procedure I end up looking like I have less hair overall.

 

I am through with strip. Should have gone with FUE for #2.

Edited June 20, 2010 by TheEmperor

[Mp96]

Emperor,

 

 

I am courious, why would you of returned to your previous clinic in the first place for round #2 after not being satisified with your first procedure? I don't know, I learned a hard lesson in life with this procedure and it's "fool me once can't fool me twice.."

 

My opinion...

[Danielkiwi]

I have the same question emperor. Also, i cannot see your pictures in the link provided. Am i doing something incorrectly

 

Also MP96, can you please share your experience in a little detail so that people on the fence will be able to make decisions

[TheEmperor]

Emperor,

 

 

I am courious, why would you of returned to your previous clinic in the first place for round #2 after not being satisified with your first procedure? I don't know, I learned a hard lesson in life with this procedure and it's "fool me once can't fool me twice.."

 

My opinion...

 

I was really on the fence about who to go to for #2. I was looking at Shapiro and also starting to consider FUE. Because I was not butchered and H&W stand behind their work, there was incentive for me to return. Part of the reason was that if there was a problem with the scar, he would take responsibility and do revisions as necessary. I didnt want to get in a situation where two docs were pointing fingers at each other and blaming the other for suboptimal scar or yield.

 

I feel that Wong will continue to stand behind his work if there is a problem, however after two strips and seeing what it has done to my donor and baldspot, I dont want to subject myself to that again.

 

Having reflected on my experience with them, I feel that their assembly line approach does not serve everyone best. They dont use DFUs, chubby grafts, or FUE. They use skinny grafts and shoot for large strip sessions.

[Mp96]

The Emperor,

 

 

I feel for you that you are not satisifed with your procedure. I am sure that because your past clinic stands behind their work they will do whatever possible to make u happy. This is a veryyy difficult surgery to go through and i'm sure they understand.

 

 

Daniel,

 

About your requests, I am not into getting into my situation for a number of reasons. Like i mentioned earlier, I would seek help else where if things didn't go as planned or whatever the case is. I guess this has been a long thought out decision and what makes the most sense to me. Anyhow, I am not into publicly putting down docs purposely and I try and be a good ethical person and it is a good habit of mine..I am hoping very soon for my next procedure, I will be met with good ethical standards as myself.

[Bosley]

I am a Senior Counselor have been for many years. The industry is flawed for sure. There are some good surgeons at Bosley. We are way too expensive...there are others out there that can do a good job for less, you just have to find them. I need a job so I continue to work here. I am a sales person, That is what I do. I encourage people to shop. The thing is we guarantee all the grafts will grow and no doctor really can or should, or company can do that. I have many, many patients that despise us, over my years I would say 1000+ more if I thought about it, but these are just the ones I have kept track of over the years. I think you guys should start a class action lawsuit. I want out, I just need to find another job. They have been jacking with our pay, they finally fired John Ohanesian who was a detriment to the company. Also I have recorded conversations of company meetings with Dr. Washenik praising counselors on their sales tactics. It is unbelievable. When they hire you they say you are just going to be giving good information and following up with interested parties. I have recordings of national, regional and team meetings speaking of just the opposite. Bosley is a business and that is not the problem the problem is the lies. I have doctors recorded saying that we are lucky if 60-70 % of the grafts grow. I have recordings of doctors stating they were told by the COO of the company that they had better call all their non-candidates and tell them they have reevaluated their situation and found them as good candidates. This was told to Dr. Epstein who is the president of the national hair restoration society, at least that is what was stated by the doctor on my recording, as well as he was told the same thing.. This is unbelievable stuff. The pressure on the sales staff is horrible. Be smart shop around. You can believe when the time is right I will turn the stuff I have over to DateLine and Michael Kremer of Bosley Medical Violations. Bosley is a cheat as a company and they are ripping you off...There are awesome doctors there but they are about the buck too, not a bad thing but you don't know who is looking out for you. If you want to add your name to my list of dissatisfied customers please do. I am going to contact an attorney so he can contact you folks eventually. This is gonna be huge. The complaints are pretty consistent, horrible scarring, no growth or little growth. loss of hair after a year. Good stuff, and very winnable in court, especially with a thousand plus folks in a class action. It will force Bosley to change or just go away.But don't think this is just Bosley there are a lot of doctors out there doing the same thing...you have to be careful. The thing is Bosley is the biggest so they stand out more and if they go down others will be scared straight. So send me your names and I will keep you posted.

[John Malloy]

It's now been around 3 years since my hair restoration...3 long hard years some regret and embarrassment. Trying to solve one problem has caused me a larger problem that I can not hide. My Donor scar is still noticeable I have tried many concealers to try and hide the scar but nothing really has worked. I now avoid social situations as much as possible and dread going to work. This is a horrible way to live and causes me constant anxiety.

I think my hair was just too fine and I should have never been considered a candidate for a hair restoration on top of this along the scar line my hair kinda bunches up in places enhancing the scar line making the scar even more noticeable..

I wish I never did this. Anyone else feel this way?

Hey creeping back,

 

I feel the same exact way. I really don't know what to do at this point. I can't keep hiding under a hat. I'm missing a big part of life just like you, I'm avoiding a ton of social events.

I'm so confused. I've spoken with other docs that said they are confident that they could get my ht to look undetectable (a little thin, but undetectable) in all situations, but Feller feels that I'm already there and that my scar will stretch again regardless. Other docs are confident they can minimize my scar.

I've spoken with close friends and family, and we all agree that you can tell something is just not right with my hairline. Is that the case with all Ht's ? Or, can I get a much more natural looking hair line than Dr. Feller's repair? I thought he was the best in the business. So, basically are any further attempts at a more natural hairline worthless? I really don't know what to do at this point, but I just wanted to let you know that your not the only one in this boat.

[kaounis]

The biggest problem with HT`s, is that they are overhyped....Many people don`t understand what the term illusion really means....Every HT patient I ever met, including myself, have unrealistic expectations.....No matter how many times they will say they are happy, deep down inside, they always expected more, better, denser, etc,etc,etc....The only difference with some over others, is that some come to terms with what they have and accept it, while others continue to obsess, and worry about it.....Those are the ones who ``regret`` their decision the most.....Face it guys....Nobody gives a s....t what are hair looks like, it`s all in the head...

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery....

[John Malloy]

The biggest problem with HT`s, is that they are overhyped....Many people don`t understand what the term illusion really means....Every HT patient I ever met, including myself, have unrealistic expectations.....No matter how many times they will say they are happy, deep down inside, they always expected more, better, denser, etc,etc,etc....The only difference with some over others, is that some come to terms with what they have and accept it, while others continue to obsess, and worry about it.....Those are the ones who ``regret`` their decision the most.....Face it guys....Nobody gives a s....t what are hair looks like, it`s all in the head...

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery....

 

Kaounis,

Thanks for the response. It is kind of what I thought. I guess alot of this is my fault for having unrealistic expectations. But, I'm obviously not the only one which leads me to believe there is still alot of deceit in the HT industry. Regardless, I'm at a crossroad between buzzing my head and letting the scar show, or go through this seemingly endless journey for a third time in 2 years. I just wish the scar was not so bad. I really don't feel like explaining it or getting the "looks" everytime i meet someone new or someone notices it for the first time. But, even if I choose to have a 3rd Ht, I'm not so sure I'll be comfortable with the look. I'm not so far and people on this website think my work looks great, but people in person think my hairline looks "off". So, for now I'm undecisive. I just can't wait until I accept my bad decision and deal with the consequences. But, I think more people should be made aware of the outcomes of hair transplants.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Kaounis and John,

 

While a few select individuals and infomercials may hype or over-promote hair transplants, I believe that this community provides a sound and realistic view of the procedure and what to expect. The purpose of this community is to provide hair loss sufferers with as much information as possible so they can make an educated decision on the best hair loss treatment for them. In many cases, I and other veteran members of this community have advised those considering surgical hair restoration to explore alternative options since they didn't make good candidates.

 

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't truly understand what to expect from hair transplant surgery including phrases like "illusion of density", its limitations and possible risks should not proceed. Patient education should be a healthy collaboration between patients and quality physicians who perform these procedures daily. At the same time, this community can help to educate patients for those who want as much information as possible prior to undergoing the procedure. Our websites are full of good information and members of this community have provided and still provide real testimonies (good and bad) of their own experiences. In the end, there are never any guarantees, but through properly educating themselves, balding men and women can choose what's best for them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Danielkiwi]

Well said Bill...if it was not for this forum i would have had multiple hair transplants by now and my guess is that i would be miserable by now...I agree with John Malloy and Kaounis to an extent and hence i am delaying my HT as much as possible..I have a gut feeling that no matter what we do, we will be not be happy with something or the other..Think about taking propecia all your life and all the anxiety associated with it as well....after going thru all this, we might still have a bald or a thinning patch somewhere in the head..and that would have a devastating effect....i think this forum does an awesome job in being transparent...i only wish that the clinics could add more pictures that are not cherry picked...IMO they should because apparently, most of the clinics seem really busy, yet the results they post do not seem to indicate the same

[EpilepticSceptic]

I've said this before, and I'll say it here again: the best HT candidates are older guys (40+) who have faced the reality head-on of being bald/balding for many years already, and who have adjusted to it in public. Many here think the opposite, that once you get older and have adjusted to MPB that your appearence and your hair will not matter anymore. That is about as far from the truth as it could possibly be, and only on HT forums where mostly youngsters hang around do you see this type of false information being propogated.

 

Many of the guys here seeking HTs have never even once exposed their balding in public to their circle of peers, and they live under concealers which also give the "illusion" of a fuller head of hair. They want a HT to try and acheive the head of hair they pull off with concealers, and they want to hide any hint of thinning anywhere on the head because they have never yet dealt with exposing their baldness in public. These type patients will inevtiably IMO be dissapointed with any type of HT, strip or FUE.

 

When you are older and you've spent at least a decade in the MPB pit (exposed in public), then your goals with a HT are VERY different than the younger crowd! Not only do you not expect a "full head of hair", but you DO NOT WANT a full head of hair! You want something that looks NATURAL, that frames your face, and that places you in that "thinning" class of men who are NOT BALD. You know there is no way that you'll be able to maintain the density of a 20 year old's hair, and that if you tried to do this with HTs that you would only look like a FREAK!

 

I've also seen many guys on here say that a HT would be a failure if it still looked "thinning", and that shaving down or just being bald would be a better option. Yet most often this comes from guys who HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE PIT -- not even for a single day! They are armchair philospohers with no experience; they have never been bald (NW4+), they have been obsessively hiding behind concealers, and many have never even attempted to shave their head. So what could they possibly know ? And what validity could their statements possibly have if they have never experienced what they are talking about ?

 

To say that patients like Bobman, Futzyhead, Jotronic, Bill and a plethora of others would have been better off just staying as they were (or shaving their heads) borders on the absurd! Opinions like this have to come from people who have never met patients like this in person to see their results, people who believe the tired rants of dissastisfied patients on HT forums whose expectations were completely ridiculous, almost adolescent.

 

No offense to Malloy, but when I see his hairline from his first surgery it's obvious he wanted to chase a 14 year old boy's hairline with HTs. There's no way in hell a patient who pursues this could ever have been even remotely educated about HTs, and IMO that is completely adolescent. Even if he hadn't received plugs with that first hairline design, as he aged that would have looked completely ridiculous anyway. How many 40 year old men have a hairline that low ? Looking at his pics it is also obvious that he has never really been significantly bald, and therefore he has NO IDEA what it is like to face the public as a bald man. Thus, his level of tolerance is very low and his obsession with perfection is very high. Many here would kill to be able to pull off the look he has right now, yet he feels like the elephant man about it.

 

It makes me think of a beautiful girl who gets one pimple and won't leave the house, and is suicidal about it.

Edited July 23, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[kaounis]

Well said ES, I've had 2 HT, 4600+ grafts...I'm also 40 yrs old, with 3 kids. I never cared what people said about my balding, never....I had my HT for myself.....I like the way I look, and couldn't care less what anybody thinks...I even went out in public, after my first HT, even though it wasn't the best, shaved head, staples and all...Nobody said anything, you know why? Because they all know that I don't give a damn about anybody's opinion when it comes to my personal life....I think that state of mind made me an excellent HT candidate...Regardeless of hair charactersitics, donor density, etc., That's why I don't think a lot of the guys who get HT's know what they are getting into...Which will inevetably lead to disapointement, and self shame...

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

[EpilepticSceptic]

Well said ES, I've had 2 HT, 4600+ grafts...I'm also 40 yrs old, with 3 kids. I never cared what people said about my balding, never....I had my HT for myself.....I like the way I look, and couldn't care less what anybody thinks...I even went out in public, after my first HT, even though it wasn't the best, shaved head, staples and all...Nobody said anything, you know why? Because they all know that I don't give a damn about anybody's opinion when it comes to my personal life....I think that state of mind made me an excellent HT candidate...Regardeless of hair charactersitics, donor density, etc., That's why I don't think a lot of the guys who get HT's know what they are getting into...Which will inevetably lead to disapointement, and self shame...

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

 

 

kaounis,

 

So do you regret your HTs and feel shame about it today ? just curious.

 

Also, what was your NW level that you tried to tackle with 4600 grafts ?

 

I agree with you that if somone is the type who cannot even leave the house without "perfect" hair then they are a TERRIBLE HT candidate. But this type person will be utterly miserable whether they get a HT or not anyway, and would be more wise to seek counseling.

 

Most of the guys on here seem to be in the "chasing my hairloss" crowd; they just can't accept the FACT that they are aging and cannot hold on to that NW0/1 head of hair. IMO it's better to deal with the cold reality of change head on and develop a harder shell when it comes to what others might think of you.

 

HTs are about making an improvement in your appearence IMO, taking off a few years from your age perception. And that is worth it to people who have spent enough time in the MPB pit.

Edited July 24, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[kaounis]

No I don't regret it, not in the least bit, I was a NW 4a, no crownloss whatsoever....Dr. Konior was my second surgeon, and he did a fabulous job, he actually comented in one of his emails to me that he was envious of my hairline...lol...I never brought my hairline down in either surgery, I just had the whole front 3rd filled in, I don't seem to be losing anymore hair, I've been on propecia for 5 years know, never used minox, and I think I should be ok for at least 15+ years...BUT...if there was some miracle cure....(now I know this might sound nuts), and I was told that for 100K, I could regain all my density from when I was a young guy....I would do it...Not because I have "hair greed" or because I want to look good for the "ladys"...I don't care about that! I JUST LOVE HAIR....Period...How's that for a laugh:)

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

[EpilepticSceptic]

No I don't regret it, not in the least bit, I was a NW 4a, no crownloss whatsoever....Dr. Konior was my second surgeon, and he did a fabulous job, he actually comented in one of his emails to me that he was envious of my hairline...lol...I never brought my hairline down in either surgery, I just had the whole front 3rd filled in, I don't seem to be losing anymore hair, I've been on propecia for 5 years know, never used minox, and I think I should be ok for at least 15+ years...BUT...if there was some miracle cure....(now I know this might sound nuts), and I was told that for 100K, I could regain all my density from when I was a young guy....I would do it...Not because I have "hair greed" or because I want to look good for the "ladys"...I don't care about that! I JUST LOVE HAIR....Period...How's that for a laugh:)

 

 

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

 

 

Cool bro!

 

We sound like birds of a feather. I was also a NW4, but with a 2" X 2" crown spot and still a decent (albeit thin) front forelock intact. Sounds like we both needed about the same # of grafts -- I got 4496 in one surgery this past May, so I'm still in the doldrums. But the native hair seems to be filling back in already, so I'm pretty much back to where I was pre-HT.

 

Yeah, I can't really say for sure what I would do if the "miracle cure" comes out down the road. There's probably a little devil in me somehwere that would say "f*ck it man, I want my teenage hair back again!". But the good news is that we likely wont see that cure in our lifetime. I dunno, I still think if you put a 14 year old's hair on a 50 year old body you might end up looking like a freak -- Judge Napolitano on Fox comes to mind.

 

IMO the next big thing will be the stem cell injections ala Histogen. Word on the street is that we'll see it being offered in Asia by 2014. I think it will be a huge improvement over what minox. can do, but it will not replace Fin. or other DHT blockers. It may turn out where we will be getting these injections every 6 months to increase the hair density of our HTs, which would be really cool as long as it is affordable. I truly believe that those of us 40 year olds (who were not NW6/7) getting HTs today will not have to worry about looking like freaks when we're pushing 60; there's just too much going on in science for these treatments not to materialize in some beneficial form, and too much potential money at stake.

Edited July 24, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic