THE REALITY OF HAIR TRANSPLANTS

[BrianH]

Here is the reality of hair transplant procedures...DON'T!!! If I had it to do all over again, I would clip my hair close and forget about it. Here is what they don't tell you...

1. The estimated cost will always be significantly lower than what you eventually pay. Most HT Doctors do not list their costs (why is it cloaked in secrecy). They can at least tell you the cost per graft, but do not.

2. If you are above a 5 on the Norwood scale the density will not meet your expectations.

3. Even the best transplant will not look natural in direct sunlight.

4. Don't believe the moderator's rhetoric, this site is a glorified advertisement for Hair Transplant Doctors who pay a fee to advertise here.

5. You will continue to require transplants for the rest of your life...it never ends (or until your donor hair is depleted).

6. Keep your hats, you will still need them.

7. HT Docs are skilled "used car salesman" who manipulate your vanity to charge outrageous sums. You deplete your bank account while they drive away in their Mercedes.

[balody]

brian,i think your going to need to back up your accusations against Bill and the forum with some details of your experience.i would do this on the experiences section.no one is going to listen if you just keep ranting.

[BrianH]

Balody,

My assertion falls under what we Yanks call, "The Common Sense Doctrine". Reputable publications/websites like Consumer Reports do not accept independent advertising. It has the potential of compromising your objectivity and/or integrity. Common sense dictates that you will support the very people responsible for your continued existence. Why do you think politics in the US is so screwed up? Our "represenatives" sell their vote to the highest bidder. Let me pose four questions?

1. How often are the "recommended" HT physicians investigated by the creator of this site. Does he routinely check to see if they have been sued for malpractice? If so, how can I locate their malpractice history on this website?

2. Has an HT doc ever been removed from the recommended list (or website) based on negative feedback from a patient(s)? Would you remove someone who helps you pay your bills?

3. How do they monitor the results of patients unfamiliar with this website? Do the HT Docs supply the website creator with a list of patients for review. We all know that photographs are not an accurate depiction of results.

4. How does the website creator differentiate between who has been paid to submit false positive recommendations and genuine patients?

 

Remember...challenge the unchallenged.

[balody]

brian,Bill will be on soon and will better answer these questions than me,but i do know that dr,s have been taken off of here for bad patient feedback.one not so long ago was removed not because of her patient being unhappy with the results but with the reaction it was met by posters and moderater/publisher alike.

every dr in the coalition has been visited by pat to see their work first hand and has to regulary post patient results on here to meet the criteria required.

i also would have thought pat would have checked to see if they had been sued for malpractice.

[wylie]

Caveat emptorapplies to anyone undergoing this type of surgery. It all boils down to two things, listed in thje order of importance:

 

1) Making an informed decision

2) Doctor skill

 

If you make an informed decision (you have researched what is right for you, you have the financial means, you are prepared for future sessions if necessary, etc) and you have chosen a surgeon you think is best suited to provide what you are looking for, then this can drastically improve the way you look and feel about yourself.

 

But be warned: If it does not meet your expectations, it can also change the way you look and feel about yourself, so its critical you make the right choice.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Brian, not saying this as an insult, but you are coming across as a fearmonger and are making outlandish statements. Clearly you had a bad experience (probably a while ago and/or with a disreputable doc), and for that I am sure everyone is sorry; however, you are damning an entire industry where, in the present, sites like this in conjunction with doctors recommended, create consistent experences and produce dramatic results that change people's lives for the better.

 

Also: many times the estimated cost isn't significantly lower, prices per graft aren't cloaked in secrecy, expectations being met is totall subjective but MANY NW5+ are EXTREMELY happy with their results, I can't prove a negative but most anecdotal evidence disagrees with your sunlight assertion, tell the myriad of people who got saved from going to a butcher that this sight is "just" a glorified advertisement, sometimes you do require more HTs and sometimes you don't but the doctors recommended are up front about this, many people have stated they would pay *more* for their results if they had to and either way they clearly don't find the price "outrageous" and even if they did they would simply choose or not choose to go through with it.

 

I do agree that hats probably should still be kept, as a ballgame just isn't the same without one. The bottom line, however, is that you are taking an incredibly subjective stance (understandably so) on *all* things related to HT, and are making sweeping assertions that contadict people's actual experiences.

[nobuzz4me]

Brian,

 

You certainly have a right to your opinion. It sounds like you had a bad experience with HT. I know I did my first one nearly 25 years ago with ugly plugs. I for one am thankful that the industry keeps improving techniques so that I was able to restore a natural look. Yes, I spent alot of money and went thru alot of time, pain and frustration. But in the end I have restored my hair to a level that is acceptable for my age and it looks very natural. I cannot agree with your assumption that they are detectable, many modern day techniques achieve a very undetectable result. I think that many of us here have had succesful HTs and are satified with our level of expectation.

 

We know it is expensive, we know it will never replace your hair as it was before. It can be enough to give you coverage enough to be satifactory vs being bald.

 

I will agree with you the many higher NWs should not dive into this especialy if they are younger. Having said that, there are some high NWs who have great donor hair so I would not make a blanket statemnet that a NW 6 for example cannot get a good result. If he has good donor quality, it is possible. Look up NicNitro, or Jotronic or Bobman or Bill.

[TheEmperor]

I agree that since the site makes a significant sum from doctor's membership fees, that its impossible for them to be completely objective. They have a product to sell.

 

That doesnt necessarily mean its a bad site. The free sites have no participation. Its probably because an unpaid webmaster is not going to go through the arduous process of tricking search engines so that their site tops the search results. Just not going to happen.

 

Pat got his idea (to be a broker for HT docs) before anyone else and its probably difficult to overturn that momentum.

 

 

Farell's site has a revenue edge because its aimed at general hair loss problems, and is funded by Hair transplant doctors and other advertisements.

 

 

That said, I think Pat's site is infinitely better that Farell's even though they are essentially the same thing.

 

The reson is that Farell does not provide any valuable filtering and in fact makes efforts to hide information that would detract from his revenue stream.

 

Pats site at least attempts to promote a standard -- even though it is commercially based. I suspect the hope is that the other surgeons value the exposure of this site and dont want it littered with the work of hacks, which would detract from the effectiveness of the advertizing. Therefore I believe there is at least some valuable filtering being done, not by purging posts or hiding information, but by controlling membership to the coalition. The readers can then decide if the product is quality and will meet their needs. This doesnt mean there are non-coalition docs out there who arent doing great work.

 

[Aside: I think the only moral gray area with Pat's site is if a doctor does not wish to pay the advertizing fee because he does not feel he is getting any advertizing value from it. This could cause a doc to be dropped and/or potentially creates an environment where a doc feels compelled to pay the fee. If a doc wants to use the internet, he almost has to work through one of the established brokers. . .or join Bosley.]

 

 

Farell's board is where the big FUE surgeons go to advertize. He was teasing everyone with his big FUE procedure, didnt initially tell anyone the doctor (didnt want to alienate his other advertizers), then came out that it was Dr. Wolf.

 

I asked him to show us the results at a year post op and he refused. My argument was that his site was based upon FUE advertizing dollars, he should stand behind the work of the doc and show the world. AFAIK, he never did show anyone the result, yet kept blowing the FUE trumpet. I'm guessing that a relatively small, low yield FUE proceduret gave him a poor cosmetic result and that rather than damage his revenue stream, he is hiding his results. This seems entirely dishonest to me.

 

OTH, we've got this site and Pat has a fantastic result which he has showed to everyone. Great advertisement for strip, ultra refined megasessions.

 

 

So in summary, I recognize that the coalition is a commercial venture, but that does not necessarily mean it is bad. I think within the coalition there are docs whose work stands out, so just because a doc is in the coalition doesnt mean they are a great choice.

 

I have had a HT from a coalition doctor. There are some areas of concern, but because I'm in the doldrum period, I have decided to wait 12 months before posting any details from the procedure. I dont think I can be objective in my current hat wearing state.

[MrJobi]

Hello Brian

 

Seems as thought you have been "scarred" one way or another. I am assuming you went to an unethical doctor which do exist unfortunately just like in every industry. However, I must say you are very mistaken in your posting as you are generalzing greatly. I will sort through your points for clarity

 

1. The estimated cost will always be significantly lower than what you eventually pay. Most HT Doctors do not list their costs (why is it cloaked in secrecy). They can at least tell you the cost per graft, but do not

 

Any top quality doctor will be clear in the costs involved and will actually document this prior to surgery. Many actually can give you some grafts for free as mine did

 

2. If you are above a 5 on the Norwood scale the density will not meet your expectations.

 

I am amazed how you can assume someones expectations?? This could happen with any Norwood if the expectations are unrealistic.

 

 

3. Even the best transplant will not look natural in direct sunlight.

I'm living proof this is nonsense. sunlight has nothing to do with anything. If the result is poor you will not need sunlight..

 

4. Don't believe the moderator's rhetoric, this site is a glorified advertisement for Hair Transplant Doctors who pay a fee to advertise here.

Yes, docs do pay to join , however they are selected on ethics and ability. Tell me an industry which does not advertise??

 

5. You will continue to require transplants for the rest of your life...it never ends (or until your donor hair is depleted).

You can possibly stabilize hairloss with meds as I did. Hairloss may be progressive though so you need to have the right apporach. This is why young patients should beware as is encouraged on here.

 

 

6. Keep your hats, you will still need them.

 

I dont anymore thank god

 

7. HT Docs are skilled "used car salesman" who manipulate your vanity to charge outrageous sums. You deplete your bank account while they drive away in their Mercedes.

 

Some are , again there are unethical people in every industry, but there are many docs out there who want to help people. Be careful, but not cynnical

 

Do some research my friend, and it will shed some light.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Brian,

 

You know, the interesting thing about your first post is that I AGREE with a lot of what you are saying.

 

But then you go ahead and pass blame as if somehow by running an open forum community, recommending pre-screened physicians, and offering free online resources, that it is my fault that you've had a bad experience. I'd like to know how I've personally steered you wrong since you are making personal accusations against me.

 

So somehow since you obviously believed a number of lies and are just discovering some of these truths after your hair transplant, how much research did you do before deciding to undergo hair transplant surgery? You registered back in July and posted a total of 7 times (2 of which are on this thread).

 

Let me address your points in your first thread first:

 

1. The estimated cost will always be significantly lower than what you eventually pay. Most HT Doctors do not list their costs (why is it cloaked in secrecy). They can at least tell you the cost per graft, but do not.

 

If you want to know the cost a physician charges per graft, ask them. All 3 of my hair transplant physicians were up front about their costs when I asked them. Nobody here (that I am aware of and certainly not me) ever said that hair transplant surgery was cheap. In fact, in my detailed hair restoration story, I listed exactly how much I paid. You can read my detailed hair restoration journey including the prices I paid by clicking here.

 

2. If you are above a 5 on the Norwood scale the density will not meet your expectations.

 

This is a question of what your expectations are! If you are looking to restore a full head of hair, you are correct! Hair transplantation will not meet your expectations. I have written an article on this very concept which can be found by visiting Will I Be Able to Restore a Full Head of Hair with a Hair Transplant.

 

3. Even the best transplant will not look natural in direct sunlight.

 

 

Actually this statement is false. A hair transplant will look great in direct sunlight! Where it DOESN'T look great is when the sun is shining directly behind you. The same article I posted above discusses lighting and the illusion of hair density

 

4. Don't believe the moderator's rhetoric, this site is a glorified advertisement for Hair Transplant Doctors who pay a fee to advertise here.

 

This is just a blatant lie. Each surgeon is carefully prescreened based on our high level of membership standards. Though physicians do pay a fee to support our efforts to fund this community (which includes running a free patient driven community, all online resources, and paying those that work diligently to keep it running), their recommendation on this site is not determined by their ability to pay. In fact, this past month alone, I have turned away 2 physicians who were deeply interested in being recommended because they did not meet our high level of membership standards.

 

5. You will continue to require transplants for the rest of your life...it never ends (or until your donor hair is depleted).

 

Hair loss is progressive and donor hair is finite. Who here said that you will only need one hair transplant to accomplish your goals? I needed 3 hair transplants (in order to achieve some level of the illusion of hair density) but knew going in that this was an investment and a commitment.

 

7. HT Docs are skilled "used car salesman" who manipulate your vanity to charge outrageous sums. You deplete your bank account while they drive away in their Mercedes.

 

This is an unfair general statement obviously fueled by your personal frustration of your own personal experience. Clearly you have not consulted with every hair transplant clinic in the world. But this statement IS true for many hair transplant clinics. We are extremely careful that we do NOT recommend any of these clinics in our online patient community.

 

Now for your Questions

 

How often are the "recommended" HT physicians investigated by the creator of this site. Does he routinely check to see if they have been sued for malpractice? If so, how can I locate their malpractice history on this website? Has an HT doc ever been removed from the recommended list (or website) based on negative feedback from a patient(s)? Would you remove someone who helps you pay your bills?

 

Hair transplant surgeons who are recommended on this community are reviewed annually and by patient members. Patient feedback is taken very seriously and a number of physicians HAVE been removed based on negative patient feedback. After careful investigation, a surgeon may or may not be removed based on what has been discovered. A recent example of a removed surgeon based on patient posted pictures was Dr. Martinick of Australlia. You can find all the details of this removal on this thread

 

How do they monitor the results of patients unfamiliar with this website? Do the HT Docs supply the website creator with a list of patients for review. We all know that photographs are not an accurate depiction of results.

 

It is not up to the moderators of this community to obtain a complete patient listing and follow up with them. This would not only be impossible but also a breach in confidentiality. Patients are encouraged and welcome however, to come here to share their experience. We also encourage physicians to ask their patients to share their results online.

 

How does the website creator differentiate between who has been paid to submit false positive recommendations and genuine patients?

 

Full disclosure is required in the signature of physicians and/or those who are affiliated with a clinic in any way per our terms of service. Additionally, there are tools we use on those who are suspected of covert marketing. Additionally, it is typically quite obvious of those who are real patients and those who are not. However, I do believe that any member of this community should proceed with caution and not necessarily believe everything they read.

 

My advice

 

 

Instead of passing blame for your decision to have hair transplant surgery, why don't you share your actual experience and photos with us in the "hair transplant experiences and surgeon reviews" forum so we can try to help you. It does sound that based on the false information you initially believed above that your expectations of hair transplantation MAY have been too high or false.

 

But all members are encouraged to share their photos and experiences for a few reasons. First, you can receive the support, encouragement, and education you need to make an educated decision on how to proceed. Secondly, as the publishers of this community, Pat and I can use this as part of our review process of a particular physician.

 

It is obvious to me that you are coming here posting this nonsense because you've had a bad experience with hair transplantation.

 

Personally, I would like to help you. But in order to do that, I encourage you to share your actual experience and photos in the "hair transplant patient photo albums" and/or the "hair transplant experiences and surgeon reviews" forum.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[agentHarley]

Bill -- thanks for your articulate response to BrianH.

 

Although I didn't realize that the Coalition doctors paid fees for this referral, I understand that server hosting and site management incur some money.

 

On some level, one has to make a gut-level decision to surpass the hysteria of bad experiences prior to FUT and trust that all the many people who post their positive results are trying to help those of us in the process leading up to their first HT, or subsequent procedures.

 

I am one month away from my first HT with Dr. Bernstein, and it is unfathomable to me that even this doctor would betray my trust in both the procedure and his reputation.

 

I hope to read more about BrianH's actual experience later in this thread.

[EmuSteve]

1. The estimated cost will always be significantly lower than what you eventually pay. Most HT Doctors do not list their costs (why is it cloaked in secrecy). They can at least tell you the cost per graft, but do not.

 

Um... Brian, your posts are the kind that scared the crap out of me before I got my surgery.

 

If I may, just on this point...

 

SMG quoted me a price months before my surgery.

 

They did not stick to this price on the day of my HT. In fact, after the surgery, they noticed that my financing papers were for $1000 less than the quoted price (oversight on my part). It would have been very simple to correct as I had been approved for much more than that... in fact, I could have even paid the difference out of pocket, no big deal.

 

But rather than fix they error, they simply changed the price for me. Holy cow. They charged me $1000 less than they quoted AFTER the surgery was done. I am not making this up.

 

I like to point out the truth where I see it, good and bad. You can bet that if I had a bad experience, I'd post about it, and if my results don't turn out as promised, I'll put the truth on here for others.

 

But so far, SMG has not only met, but exceeded almost every expectation I've had.

 

So listen carefully. Hair loss has robbed me of my youth in many ways, and my surgeon has been a great asset in helping me with something that, once all is said and done, I hope will make me feel really great about MYSELF. It hasn't been easy, but slinging mud around the forums doesn't make it any easier for guys like me or any of the other people who browse this forum because they are hoping, desperately, for something that can help them beat the biggest insecurity in their life.

 

Chill out with that stuff man.

[Bill - Seemiller]

agentHarley,

 

Congratulations on your recent hair transplant with Dr. Bernstein. I hope you'll take the opportunity to share your experience and results with us on another thread.

 

Thank you for your understanding and welcome to our community!

 

Everyone,

 

How we recommend physicians is no secret. Our detailed membership criteria, statements about paid sponsorship, and all disclaimers can be found by clicking here.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

I really cannot see the big deal of coalition docs paying to be a part of the forum. What people need to understand is the fact that you cannot just pay and be on the site. There is an approval process based on ethics and ability. Ironically enough, you can actually see some posts against the docs who are on here ( rare but true). This just reinforces the objectivity of the site itself.. Most of the people on here do not get paid one penny ( as myself) and are srictly here to help people for the goodness of assisting others "BEAT" a probem which has plagued us.. No alterior motive, just helping others.

 

Unfortunately, I realize there are some bitter people out there and rightly so. In life there are unethicaal people who will deceive others for their own benefit.However, if I have a bad sandwich at a cafe, this does not mean every cafe has bad sandwiches. We must learn to dissern in life by being selective and informed. This is part of being an adult and a professional in life

[WeAreCured]

I now have to poo-poo again.

 

Seriously, sometimes a few people on this forum make me feel like I'm an adolescent again. I guess age and maturity (at least reason) don't always increase simultaneously. Some of the accusations and arguments on this forum are completely sophomoric.

[MrJobi]

You are right Cured but I think we must look at the average hairloss sufferer and their state of mind. You are a well informed veteren but others can be quite:

 

Panic'ed

Desperate

Vulnerable

Eager to find a quick fix.

 

Not sure what you are specifically referring to above. I am guilty myself of all of the emtions listed above as well. This tends to cloud your state of mind and reason.. I would much rather appear a bit sophmoric to the newbie than to have them waste thousands of dolloars or worse, get butchered by an unethical doctor.

 

So, we try to be the voice of reason which can sometimes be a bit blunt but surely needed. It is very easy to stand back and think rationally but remember the state of mind involved by some.

[WeAreCured]

I was referring to the original poster's comments. Lashing out like that is totally unnecessary and some of his complaints aren't even valid. I understand he has the right to post whatever he wants, but I just think there's occasionally some unproductive mudslinging that is completely unfounded on here. I just find it strange for a grown man to write that and re-read it, and not find it immature. Sure, he could say he was "trying" to help people by "exposing" those things, but some of them are flat out wrong. It's more like fear-mongering than help.

 

And the poo-poo comment was just to lighten the mood. Age and maturity level don't matter when farts or poop are involved; it's always funny.

[MrJobi]

Agreed

 

I feel bad for the guy .. He was obviously hurt pretty bad and feels the need to lash out ..

[Aquarius]

Lets not discount his experience as most of his assessment are correct.

For someone that has been harmed by a doctor it is hard to swallow.

If you were the victim of a crime would you like someone telling you the things you should have done to prevent it.

Perhaps he didn't know that 5% aren't like that, sees a site like this and says MARKETING.

The vast majority of doctors in this field are common oppertunist that do in fact work without concience. They were yawning during the "Oath".

I hope he stays long enought to realize how THIS site works and is able to go forward and find some comfort.

Chin up Brian. It's not your fault.

Lash out (thanks MRBJ) it's cathartic and you have every right to, although it's hard not to think otherwise when your in a spiral. there are some good guys here and a few great hair Doctors.

Aq

[MORE_HAIR]

Hey guys.

 

I agree..If the guy used a bad doc and also received an outdated procedure...I feel sorry for him....really.

Also agree with EmuSteve..his gotta chill out a bit.

 

My feeling about his 7 points/complaints.

 

1)Flat out wrong...My doc told me graph cost.

2)How do you know what other peoples expectations are ?

3)Balding hair looks like crap in direct sunlight if you ask me.

4)Sites like these cost $ to operate.

5)flat out wrong

6)If I get results like others on this site...I will keep my hats...and burn them on the fourth of July.

7)Only his opinion...don't be concerned how others spend $

 

As I said if the guy got screwed that sucks and this site might be a huge help.

But as EmuSteve said....chill out a little and learn.

Don't help guys like me lose more sleep.

The next 8-10 months is going to be a roller coaster ride as it is.

 

MH

[MORE_HAIR]

Should mention

 

I don't work for a doctor

2872 graphs Dr.Epstein 11/28/07

[pushing 40]

Age and maturity level don't matter when farts or poop are involved; it's always funny.

 

Omg, I just laughed out loud and so spontaneously that I woke up my wife. Holy shit that was funny; and so very very true.

[Al - Moderator]

I can understand how Brian feels. I don't know the details of his experience, but I can tell you that if you had a really bad experience you would be lashing out as well. It's not a sign of immaturity. I went through that period when I was posting to the newsgroups years ago before Pat started this forum. I was in shock, depression, and didn't know how I was going to live with the result. I would get extremely bitter anytime I even thought about what they did to me.

 

I went for several years wanting to kill myself until I was finally able to get past it. I used to wear hats all day long to cover it and missed going to several weddings, funerals, and other events because i was so afraid to be seen without my hat. Believe me having a bad HT is much worse than not having one at all. I never wore a hat before my HT even though I had significant hairloss at a very young age.

 

I finally got past it all and I don't ever wear hats anymore, but I still hate the people who did this to me. I will forever hope they rot in hell for eternity when they die. If I ever heard of a former patient killing one of them for what they did to him I would be so thrilled. I'd be at the trial with a shaved head showing everyone just how brutal they were in an attempt to help the guy.

 

So while I don't agree with his generalities as fact in all cases. I do agree that the things he mentions does happen.

 

My story is here.

http://members.aol.com/LongScars/index.html

[MrJobi]

Haha aquarius

 

from what you did to my name it is obvious what is on your mind

[wylie]

I no longer am comfortable in public places or brightly lit rooms without a hat. I wear one everywhere now. I'm hoping that I can gain a greater measure of confidence in my existing hair with two relatively small procedures (500 apiece) but honestly it's all about fooling myself, it wont ever be thick. Maybe when I'm an old man and my hair is white I can finally feel comfortable without a hat on.

 

I cannot believe how many quacks are in this business. While a majority are unethical (arguable/debatable I know) and are more interested in a payday (this is elective surgery, afterall) those who consistently post positive results on this forum are not. And many you've never heard of are ethical and skillful. But many find out they are not, and they find out like Brian after the fact. For doctors like these, the almighty dollar trumps everything.

 

However, when you hear about some of the results people get, you have to wonder why some doctors don't at least refund every penny the patient/victim spent on the session(s)?

 

That would require the physician/butcher admitting their mistake and that aint gonna happen.