Janna

Our patients are given Vicodin for pain for the first few days after surgery. Narcotic shouldn't be mixed with alcohol. As soon as you don't need the painkillers, you should be free to drink.

I wasn't able to edit the Title - Wrong Graft total in Title - s/b 1934gr/3617hairs Thanks Dutch!

I've been keeping in touch with wb280 throughout his progress.... We did an approximately 1600gr fue case last May to thicken his density but we knew going in that this would not get him to where he'd like to be so we'd do the fue in two steps. Couple of months ago, he sent pics at 9 or 10 months post op and he was finally enjoying the growth. Our goal for the first procedure was to use a lot less of Toppiks. He said we'd met his goal. The pics he sent showed a great improvement but I guess he didn't have time to update his progress here. Since then, he's felt he's lost a bit more native hair as he felt he could see through to the scalp a little more. My opinion was that you couldn't tell by the pictures that he'd lost more native hairs. To me the results still looked good and a definite improvement overall. It'd be nice for WB to post his progress pics for members to see for themselves so that they're not speculating that he didn't get the results he wanted. I believe WB plans to do the 2nd procedure next spring.

This is a beautiful result no matter how you look at it. If the meds helped then all the better for him.

Here are Mike's pre-op and 1 day post op photos. Thanks Mike for posting your progress - Thanks

This patient had 1395 grafts, which equaled 2418 hairs. The cost of our FUT procedure comes out to approx. $5 per graft after travel discount. Thanks for your comment and inquiry. Thanks Orlhair, good to hear from you.

I suppose we could have just put up the last 5 pictures....... There is no intention of deceit in posting this result. I believe we tend to post as much info as possible and the pics with the hair style was close to pre-surgery. The pre-surgery pics had wet hair so the "after" pics have wet hair as well. We can all see with the relatively small number of grafts that this would produce a more subtle difference so I can't see where we presented a "manufactured difference". We knew the first four compare pics did not show a huge change but then this patient did not need a huge change. Thus, the last 5 pictures show the actual graft placement and the close up pics with the hair combed out of the way to show the result. I'd be inclined to understand your complaint if we only showed the first 4 comparisons pics.

I've worked for Dr. Keene for many years.... she is considered one of the most ethical physician in this business. Does she routinely do 19 year olds? Do you know the specifics of that particular case?

This just sounds crazy to me. Can you please go into more detail on the problems which you encounter using the Artas. You're saying our cautious approach to using new devices sounds crazy?? We don't switch over to the SAFE very often, in fact, perhaps once or twice in a year timeframe. The problem we encounter has more to do with the patient's tissue. If you do any extactions you'd know not all scalp tissue is created equal. The really soft tissue or when a patient has lots of cowlicks, it may be more challenging but that’s an issue with all FUE devices. You have to keep in mind that we're still in the early stages of using the Artas. It the donor supply was unlimited, we might be more footloose and fancy free with our approach but since it's not, we approach it more cautiously. Just because we're more conservative and cautious with new devices doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the device itself. 1. It takes you two days to do a 2000 graft procedure using an Artas? Our standard protocol from the beginning with our FUE program has been to schedule any cases above 1200 for two days, no matter which device is scheduled. Our physicians do not like to "rush" our fue procedures. It doesn't have to take 2 days but we schedule it as such just in case. Many of our FUE cases are complete after 1 day. So, it's no different with Artas. 2. You state you Generally Start off a two day procedure using the Artas? If the patient is scheduled for the Artas then we start off the first day with the Artas. We don't necessarily stop at 1000 grafts - it may be 1400-1600 in the first day. In the two day procedures regardless of Artas or SAFE, we like to do the bulk of it the first day. What makes you switch back and fourth between the Artas and the Safe scribe. Your Doctor has said in prior posting that the Artas is superior. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...-grafts-3.html If you go back and read more carefully, our physicians have said the reason why we acquired the Artas is because the Artas has the "potential" to be superior - they did not state it's superior. And the reason why we only do one day with the Artas is because like with all new devices, we want to approach it slowly to make sure it is indeed the superior technique. This is the protocol in which we started and haven't changed it yet. It's likely to change in the future as we're ever changing. 3. Can you show us some examples of the bad grafts you get using the Artas. What makes the grafts look bad. Is it the Double punch technique or is it the proding of the grafts to get them to come out of the scalp? Do you have some examples of the bad grafts you get with the Neograft or are they all the same? We don't get bad grafts from the Artas. As I said in my previous post, we'll switch to a different device if there are any problems but it's not often and certainly not on a regular basis. 4. By your statement it appears that no matter what the quality of the grafts are you use the Safe Scribe to even out the extraction pattern on the second day. Can you please explain this more, it does not make sense to me if the Artas is a superior system that you would need to go back to very old technology. It's important to point out that we don't consider the Safe Scribe to be "very old technology" as you do. SAFE has been our preferred choice for a long time after trying out many devices, including the NEOGRAFT device. We have seen some sharp punches that we like in the right hands - like Dr. Lorenzo's technique and Dr. Dorin's sharp device. We also like Dr. Cole's sharp punches. There are benefits with many devices but it really matters who uses them. The pattern in which the grafts are extracted can be evened out using the Artas, however, there are sections on the head that's more difficult for the grids to be secured due to shapes of the heads, thus the reason for going over the difficult areas of the head with SAFE method. 5. It seems to me that your practice is promoting the Artas but are actually still relying upon the bulk of the procedure to be performed by the Safe Scribe as you state you use the safe scribe on the second day (Again your words not mine). We don't promote one fue device over the other - our patients come to us knowing which device they prefer. We had a special one-time promotion when we first acquired the Artas for few months but it was never our goal to switch from one device to the other. We want to utilize the devices that produce the best results in our hands. We'll also use some sharp punches when it calls for it. We feel it's important to stay on top of new devices and techniques. 6. If the Artas is this difficult to get quality results with one of the best hair docs in the world is this because of the system, training or patient? How many quality results have you presented so far? I think that you need to read again more carefully the threads and what we've stated about the Artas and Safe. We've never said it's difficult to get quality results using the Artas. From the very start we made a conscience decision to use the Artas only on the first day - not because there were any problems or that we couldn't complete a case using only the Artas. There are many clinics using the Artas that will do 3000-4000grafts in one day. But it's because that's the protocol they have. Our protocol is different because we want it to be - not that one is superior over the other, it's just our choice. 7. When the Artas was first designed there a reason why the Dull punch was large. It worked better with a larger punch. However patients/doctors want a smaller punch. Did forcing to go to a small punch due to patient and doctor demand force an unknown quality issue with the Artas? Thus causing bad grafts and the need to continue to use the Safe Scribe. We've reviewed our patients with the Artas and we feel they achieved expected yield and results. The only issue may come from being conservative with the number of grafts than what the patient may have expected once the grafts came in. Again, it's not an issue of yield but a difference in expectations.

There were 3-4 patients online who posted last year stating they weren't achieving the expected growth but it was also early in the growth process. We have not received any pics from those patients yet. Those patients all had grafts extracted with the Artas. Keep in mind that when we used the Artas we went conservatively with the numbers because the Artas was new and we didn't want to "use up" much of the donor - basically, we played it safe like we do with any new technique. The grafts harvested with the Artas has to look good or we'll switch over to the non robotic technique. If all you need to do is add more grafts in the future is it a failed transplant? Consider the number of grafts planted when evaluating results. What makes a person happy with their result is subjective. Some are happy with lower density than others. We all know the donor is limited and what you do with them is very important.

This procedure took 2 days. 2 days is the maximum number of days we'll an FUE procedure. Thanks Mick, Arrie & Hdude for commenting.

Arrie, We're currently in a middle of a build out so we have all Artas cases on hold for another month. Prior to the build out, we were doing about 20-30% of our FUE cases were with the Artas. Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!

Thanks for the feedback. Considering this patient is from New Zealand, we're thrilled he was able to send quality pics for good comparison shots. He is happy to have met his goals.

Future-HT-Doc is correct. Most physicians will not do a "test" (most don't call it "Fox" test) unless they have concerns on healing or ease of extractions. We'll generally do a test on the ease of extractions on African American patients because the hairs tend to be very curly like a "C" shape. 4K grafts is a lot of grafts in one session of FUE. Is it over 2-3 days? I assume your physician feels the extractions should be easy on you.

You've called and emailed me numerous times? Are your initials J.L? If so, I've looked through your files and its shows one payment of $500 so it looks like we honored the first estimate. Also, since the SMP didn't work out, we did a punch out session on you in July of 2013 without charge. I apologize for not returning your call, I forwarded the one call I got from you to Nicole who is our smp specialist. If she didn't return your call, then perhaps the forwarding didn't go through but I'll check into it.

Thanks guys!! We greatly appreciate your feedback.

Wow, thanks captain for the video on Dr. Harris's SAFE system. I was going to explain that there is a difference between SAFE (dull punch) vs the sharp drill on Dr. Dorin's drill. Each type of drill can take out quality grafts as long at the extractor is experienced and skilled at it. Dr. Dorin and Dr. Harris are experienced extractors obviously and make the use of using their instruments look easy.

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Nope, that's normal.

People are weary of clinics that don't use a pen implanter? Being in the industry and speaking with other physicians and technicians over the last 18 yrs, we've looked at the implanter pen as an easy alternative if you don't have a skilled planter who uses forceps. It takes a long time to acquire the skills needed to plant the grafts proficiently without damaging the grafts with forceps. You need less technicians if you use the pens. When incisions can be made ahead of time the traditional way, the planting phase can be more efficient using 2 or 3 technicians than the implanting pens. The incisions are generally closer together as well.

Hdude, Wings isn't stating his hairline looks unnatural. I believe he's stating there's mp difference between surg #1 and surg #2. The pic he's posted is with his hair straight up, which isn't the most flattering shot. We're waiting on better and more recent pics from Wings. Of course we hope that he'll notice a difference but we'll work with him to get him to where we feel he should be.