Fahri

I often wonder if after years of using regaine, how my hair would be without it (awful I imagine, given previous stories)

Also if I had a procedure, is my current hairline my 'real' and truthful hairline, I say this as if I let my regime slip at any point after a procedure I could (in my mind) end up looking rather unusual with parts thinning out and not in keeping with any newly sculpted areas.

The above dawned on me the other day, when I reflected on some good procedure stories/pictures. In some ways my head of hair without any regaine would be the best to work with, as it would tell the honest picture of my hair in its natural state (even though that doesnt bear thinking about) that way a procedure would build up all of the genuinely thinning areas properly.

If that makes any sense to anyone I'd love to hear your thoughts.

On 4/11/2019 at 12:55 PM, GuyFromTheUK said:

Just worked out:

13,676 hairs in total for 6451 grafts

Average of 2.12 hairs per graft. Not amazing, but I do have really fine hair

And no, I'm not on any meds besides herbal supplements (biotin and vitamins) and I won't take finasteride (I understand the risk, but at the same time don't want to mess with my body's chemistry as had sides when I tried)

This is 100% the route I would take also, and for the same reasons. 

I often wonder if after years of using regaine, how my hair would be without it. Also if I had a procedure, is my current hairline my 'real' and truthful hairline, I say this as if I let my regime slip at any point after a procedure I could (in my mind) end up looking rather unusual with parts thinning out and not in keeping with any newly sculpted areas, if that makes any sense.

Such a difference to your first pictures, I would be so happy with your transformation, thanks for sharing!

On 8/25/2020 at 3:50 PM, Curious25 said:

Looks really good! 

Personally don't see the benefit in minoxidil - It's like crack for your follicles, their existence becomes dependent on it, so once you stop, so do they - and you lose them all. Its messy, inconvenient, has cosmetic side effects in the form of collagen reduction (so you're robbing pete to give to paul looks wise), can have cardiac side effects (more common from oral usage), and doesn't address the actual pathway that causes MPB. It's merely a growth stimulant, which once you start, you need to commit to for the rest of your life - so not ideal if you decide to start, then get negative side effects/cant be bothered using it anymore.

Finasteride - directly addresses the root cause of MPB, and has a huge success rate in slowing the progression of hair loss down. Negative side effects are possible (yet statistically in the minority of users) as you are disrupting your bodies natural endocrine system, and can range from mild - severe across sexual dysfunction, breast tissue growth, and a phenomena known as 'brain fog', which can refer to reduced concentration span, irritation, being less alert, and generally put 'not feeling yourself'. Advice suggests if side effects do occur, they will disappear on discontinuation of the medication - however there is an acknowledged condition known as post finasteride syndrome, in which some users have had prolonged issues with side effects after stopping using the drug, and fail to return to baseline. This was recently confirmed to me by a leading urological consultant, who explained that the hypothesis as to why this occurs is down to androgen receptor sensitivity being nullified as a result of the bodies natural endocrine system being 'tampered' with, and is in essence an untreatable condition. This is because it is irrelevant how much testosterone you synthetically try and treat a patient with - if their receptors are shot at, it counts for nothing, because regardless of the testosterone levels, the receptors are unable to pick it up and 'put it to use'. This however again, is statistically rare, and very low amongst the population of users. 

The impact of certain side effects will differ from man to man, and what may concern one, may not concern another. We are unique and individual - and decisions should be made on a personal level, once all information is gathered, processed and understood. My consultant told me some of the PFS patients he has encountered denounce they would never have gone near the medication in the first place had they been informed of the worst case scenario possibility - equally there are people who have taken the drug for years on end, swear by it, advocate it, and have maintained their hair looking great. This is why I am a big advocate that all patients are well informed about the medication, and have enough, if not all of the information to weigh up the pro's and con's for themselves, to personally make an accurately informed decision. 

 

That the most impressive and informative summary of finasteride use Ive read to date, nice work. Im scared to 'find out' if Im ok with using it, or whether i'm in that minority, its far too much of a gamble for me. 

Some great pictures of the procedure, would love a hairline like that, thank you for sharing!

Thats looking really good, as you'd expect, very positive 😀

Thank you for sharing, some great pics & impressive coverage! Looking forward to seeing how you progress.

On 12/16/2020 at 12:29 PM, UnbaldEagle said:

I keep thinking about this all the time.

Yes, usually the most ethical doctors won't even operate on you if your hair loss has not stabilized from meds, or if you're young and have aggressive MPB. 

Speaking of long term HT patients who chose not to be on meds, well I've seen a couple of very good examples on this forum that it's possible, however sadly I've seen more individuals who were not able to keep up with their progressive hair loss. If this happens at a young age (30s, 40s), then usually it's devastating and there's little to be done. 

The way I see it, it depends on 3 very important factors:

-  It needs to be clear where you'll end up on the Norwood scale (imho this is not set in stone though! but it serves as an important starting point).

- your donor needs to be assessed both in quality and in quantity and have a good laid out plan for the future with realistic goals

- some compromises will have to be made, such as leaving your crown area thin and focusing on the frontal and midscalp regions instead

Then there's some individuals who are blessed with a lot of body hair, which is a great safety net, you can cover some areas or fix your depleted donor / donor scars. 

Personally I think it's very risky having hair transplants without being on medication, but I completely understand if somebody cannot take them due to side effects. Not even trying to take them ever, that's a bit reckless though. 

 

Im glad you feel the same, its reassuring to know that as many are big advocates of propecia. Im mid 40's and use regaine which has helped massively, I just darent go for the fin, whilst I accept that it most likely will be fine I have read that some people dont bounce back to the man they were before, if they experience sides that is, I read on here that sometimes these things can go on for many years which is too much of a risk for me.

Good points on the Norwood scale, I believe Im pushing towards a stage 3 vertex, as in the wrong light my hair looks awful then sometimes after the hair has been washed it can look amazing, frustrating and strange. Farjo in Manchester UK have looked at my hair and discussed planning for future operations and were the only clinic that didnt bang on about finasteride use, although any clinic is set to gain from more transplants over time this is true. 

On 12/16/2020 at 12:30 PM, UnbaldEagle said:

BTW, this is a great thread, hopefully a lot of members will chime in with their personal experience too.

Thank you @UnbaldEagle I do hope so, I believe many of us are apprehensive about finasteride. 

On 12/16/2020 at 4:42 PM, TorontoMan said:

I think it’s rather fair and ethical for a doctor to highly recommend medication to a patient concerned about their hair and willing to get a transplant. Hair transplants will not for most people give full coverage and your hair loss will continue to progress. 
 

you don’t have much to lose by trying it for yourself. Sides are rare according to every study, and if you do get sides, they will subside when you come off treatment. At least then after trying it for a year, you know whether it’s something you’ll continue or if it’s effective, and if not, you’ll have a better strategy with approaching a hair transplant.

I had considered this, although a similar post on here (should be able to locate with a search) reveals some users experiencing side effects that have continued many years after ceasing their course of medication, its really made their lives worse.

On 12/16/2020 at 5:57 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Great topic,

Dr. Bisanga touched on this subject. I’ll be sure to post it on Instagram and YouTube. If the hair is taken out of the patients individual safe zone it will last a lifetime. Now, EVERYONE’S hair thins over time. We cannot expect to have the same donor we have at 20, when we’re 90. 

Thanks @Melvin-Moderatorthats reassuring, I honestly did not know that, it makes complete sense I guess. I wasnt sure to what degree the fin was needed, to help keep the new hair in as well as maintain the areas that are thinning. Good to clarify!

On 12/16/2020 at 9:34 PM, Raphael84 said:

The following bitesize video, I had scheduled to post next week on its own thread, which I will still do. But as we are speaking about donor areas and our "safe" donor area essentially getting smaller in terms of surface area as we age and as hair loss evolves, but as Melvin mentioned, even within what may be our eventual and genuine "safe" donor area, hair will thin and density will decline as part of our ageing process just as with our skin, organs, mobility etc. even in those that do not suffer any real loss.
 

 

Thank you for posting this, I found it really useful, I imagine others will too.

On 12/16/2020 at 11:23 PM, TheDarkHour said:

Yeah this is something that's always on my mind when it comes to transplants. Currently on NW2-2.5 at 26. Got sides from finasteride and I already had gyno so dropped it after a few weeks. Been using Minoxidil for a little over a month and I do have some weak hairs growing on my right temple, left is still pretty terrible and I haven't checked my crown yet. I'll probably be like Melvin and have surgeries every couple of years and use Min for maintenance (especially for crown). I also have quite a bit of body hair which I'll likely use to save my crown and probably temples. 

Hoping Clascoterone releases soon as that sounds really promising. 

@TheDarkHourif you can, do stick with the minoxidil (Regaine?) as from my own personal experience I have found it to be great at filling in some of these areas. Its a subtle improvement but sometimes that's a big change for us, to see even fine hair where there was none. My temples and crown are the key areas too. I believe I'll be taking the same route as yourself & Melvin, for mental clarity & stability of mood, libido etc.. its a safest trade-off. Im also reassured by the new techniques to use beard and body hair if donor is limited, which could be a possible future scenario. Thanks for bringing Clascoterone to my attention, I knew topical fin equivalents were in the pipeline so its good to see one on the cusp of release. The price looks a shocker per month, although that should come down when the licenses change/expire.
 

Hi folks, had anyone any thoughts or life experience of this scenario please?

Clinics always recommend a course of fin, as I’ll need more procedures over my lifetime without. This seems a fair trade off when I weigh up possible side effects, however I’m keen to read others life experience of this too.

Many thanks in advance 🙏

Absolutely amazing, a dream result!

Looking SO, SO good, thank you for sharing!

Awesome result! I would be over the moon with such dense hair, your hairline is impressive. Hats off to using Fin too, I cant bring myself to cross that bridge, great that it works for you. 

Thank you for your feedback and for sharing your experience and knowledge on Fin guys, its greatly appreciated. I think Ill go down the route of some others who have the FUE and get 5-6 years from it, I'd hate to lose libido and sense of well being, risking the mental effects etc.. too. Not worth the gamble for hair, which falls behind mental health.

I appreciate your information regarding propecia/finisteride, as its a worry for me. Many use it with no issues, but you dont know if it'll affect you till you try, and it could help me or hinder - it looks to be doing a sterling job for you tho!
Thanks for your kind words of support also, its in the pipeline for me, pulling funds together!

I really enjoyed reading your story from page one to now, thank you for being so open with us all. I would be over the moon too, your hair transformation looks fantastic!
Your eventual use of propecia interested me too, as this is a step I daren't quite tackle.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us, its much appreciated. Your transformation is inspiring, you must be over the moon!

Im really impressed with your procedure and progress, thank you for sharing! 

I was particularly inspired by your decision not to use propecia, as its always mentioned in relation to a procedure. Im fearful of using it, but feel some comfort seeing how well you look without having ventured down that road.

Great stuff, thanks for feeding back

Thank you for the info on the meds, its appreciated.

How long have you been on the finasteride and how are you finding it please?

Looking fantastic, please could you clarify any meds you use to assist?

Thank you @ciaus, thats reassuring to hear! Im going to check the thread, read and absorb.

I appreciate you flagging it. I do need to get a reassessment at the clinic with the zero meds stance, and gauge opinion. 

Thanks for the link @Maz_a, good to chat for sure. A good read & train of thought in the link there too, cheers. Even though not as advantageous perhaps, it is safer long term which appeals to me greatly.

This seems like the most likely route at this time, I don't want to tread water for too long as I know time is of the essence. Its definitely one of the toughest decisions any of us could make.

I've added a few pictures of my hairline, its not the worst but it could be a lot better, when I look back to how thick it was when I was younger. I'm like you, and cutting it short. Regarding self confidence, I think this is linked even though life's knocks can affect this on its own. I think its more the weight and realisation that we're ageing and leaving behind perceived 'youth'. Some are cool with this, and many like ourselves have a bit more trouble accepting it. I agree that I'd rather have a clean balding look than patches of 'procedure' hair around my hairline, consistency is important. 

My donor area isn't too bad, not intense but there's some mileage in it as I'm told in my consultations. Its how it performs over the years if I press on with a procedure without medication. I appreciate nobody can answer this one.

Interesting that @Melvin-Moderator, has had a procedure and isn't using finisteride, I didn't know this, thanks for highlighting. That sounds promising, Ill check the site for any write ups he may have done. Keen to learn more.

Thank you @Taken4Granted, I appreciate your honesty there, Im sorry to hear that you experienced some adverse effects in your journey from the medication. Its trial and potential error in the small minority, Im stood on the precipice. 

Thank you @Curious25, I think a medical viewpoint is the way forward. At least then I'll know, or have a little more information. Ill give the docs a call Monday morning. You've given me a bit to think about there, additionally/frustratingly the best hair I have is facial hair. Give it a week and I've got the makings of a great beard, its ridiculous. Its exciting to see what clinics like Eugenix are doing for people with much less hair than I have, and from what I can gather (anyone correct me if Im wrong) does transplanted hair from the donor region stay strong and not shed long term as was the case with the hair it is replacing? (genetic programming). On your ending note, sleeping well and knowing Im not potentially screwing myself up inside or in my head/positive mindset is so important.

Im with you completely @Maz_a, you have summarised it all very well. 

To have the benefit of the medication without the worry of a side effect is the holy grail, for many medications I guess.

I'll have to accept fate soon, or take the leap. Eugenix do seem to be able to work a degree of magic with less of a donor area which is impressive, seeing some of the examples on here has given me hope. One of the chaps isnt using finisteride either, and has added images of a great procedure. Food for thought.

Thank you, @ciaus some good points there, and yes the mind can conjure up many things and make them seem real. This ties in with your thoughts too @Maz_a, I appreciate the human reflection, its extremely valid. I hate sitting on the fence, as Im usually quite a decision maker but the potential health aspect has slowed down the process somewhat.

I was about to buy some finisteride a while back when it showed a few links to do research before buying and thats when the doubt set in. There are many shady sites peddling fear I agree, but these two seem pretty solid and I would say aimed at the minority. https://www.propeciahelp.com/ & https://www.pfsfoundation.org/  The facts and case studies are an eyeopener, and not what I wanted to read in a way. 

Im blown away by the transformation. Its very kind of @paddyirishman to share the whole procedure and updates. I was fearful of clinics further afield aside of some in Belgium/America and Canada, but wow, Eugenix certainly have got it nailed. 

Im intruiged by the decision not to use finisteride too, as thats a route I would prefer.

Great stuff. As @Fluffhead mentions, if you have time an update would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Great info re medication as Im apprehensive about taking it yet know it could be the key, thank you