mikeyhwk

I took that first point into account and tried to look only at patient experiences as they tend to be, this is my procedure from hopefully start to finish instead of looking at what the clinics present which could be susceptible to that kind of manipulation. What do you mean by over-estimating the graft count, do you mean in terms of telling people that they have more available grafts than they should (ie venturing outside the safe zone) ? I would also be interested to hear if members did see times that the top fue clinics were in their opinion over-packing recipient sites and over-harvesting donor supplies and better yet if they can link to that case, it'd be interesting to find out. I off the top of my head can't think of examples I've seen of either from those clinics tho I will take a look. I tend to think over-harvesting and over-packing the recipient to the point of possible necrosis would be inexperienced or unscrupulous clinics/mills vs the type of docs I talked about but I am prepared to stand corrected.

Quite the contrary you've convinced me towards the reality of fue and I thank you for that, you've taught me much and I fully accept the reality of fut being the gold standard so it is not that I'm not getting the message, I'm just discussing the degree to which that is the case which I think is fair to do. I would love for the doctors to come on here and answer if they think that 3k fue grafts is = to 2k fut grafts, I just didn't think they would come on and answer so I left it to the members to discuss. In an ideal world, I'd love to see it put to the test, 2 patients similar needs, characteristics, 2k fut from Dr Bloxham/Feller and 3k fue from Dr Lupanzula who has argued for the merits of fue, lets put the numbers to the test but I understand too many variables and nobody is signing up for that but it'd be a fun little experiment. I accept my that my lay view is limited but we've been presented with docs who also felt that the discrepancy between the 2 procedures isn't to the level you're stating, one is well known fut clinic Hasson and Wong...I respect your expertise but on what basis should I not accept there's as they too have thousands of operations under their belts. So I've got experts on both sides and I'm just trying to get to the truth in there and it helps to see it yourself ...I am trying to see what you're saying in terms of numbers in the results we're presented with, patient experiences come up all the time, these aren't hand picked best of clinic works I'm looking at.. At some point if the numbers are that one sided, the results and the numbers should meet even over a smaller sample size. I can see a difference, but 35% better on the low end better...I'm just not seeing it so far/yet. I still thank you for all you've taught me and don't think it hasn't registered but even when you were educating, I still looked into every thing you said and concluded for myself if I believed it. That is the same process I am going thru now. I won't just accept every thing I'm told at face value, and neither would you.

In Dr Fellers/Bloxhams response video they make some statements At 3:30ish in the vid...Fut grafts 98% survival rate...fue grafts at best 85%, more like 50%. So lets go ahead and average that... tho if you apply Dr Fellers tone then it should be closer to the 50% than the middle but for the sake of simplicity, average..., Round up the half point, 68%...so we're on average getting 30% more growth from from fut over fue for the same number of grafts used...so we're essentially saying 3k fue grafts = 2100 fut grafts. at 4:43 Dr Bloxham emphatically nods, no real point in mentioning this but they did on the video so I felt I should as well At 8:18 the docs say among a couple other things hair shafts will not grow as well and hairlines will not look as good using fue so we're at this stage getting 30% less grafts and the ones that do grow are weaker which means weaker hairlines and I assume just coverage period...So if we're to go by this then 3k fue grafts wouldn't even equal 2100 fut grafts, Lets just super low ball it and say that of the survivors the fut grafts are just 5% better which Im sure the drs would say isn't the case its much higher but for the sake of the math, so now it takes 3150 fue grafts to equal 2100 fut grafts. So just an informal poll among the members, when you see the likes of Lorenzo, Erdogan, Feriduni, Bisanga, Lupanzula, Diep all docs either approved here or known for excellence, given the same hair characteristics, over the same general area...are you guys seeing the top fut doctors being able to accomplish with 2k grafts what these guys do with 3 k grafts? Knowing full well you'll never have an exact same situation but I think we've seen enough similar type situations that we can extrapolate to form an opinion on this. I'm not disputing anything the docs are saying in regards to fut being the better yielding procedure, nor am I questioning the points they made about the potential damage to fue grafts, gold standard talk but visually I am having trouble reconciling the numbers they lay out to the results I am seeing when it comes to clinics most of us would use. I am just curious to see what other members are seeing, are the numbers passing the eye test?

Piven has a gnarly scar, I don't know who did his procedure but closures were not his specialty.

Congrats on the great result!

Not necessarily 50%, there is no one sched for everybody but at 5 months you're nowhere near done and it does look thicker than last month, especially in the over top angle so it's progressing. They are pretty whispy at this stage and don't look like a whole lot so don't be to put off yet. A good friend and member of this forum would message me to update me on his progress and he would like to say they're coming in here and there but they got no fk'n muscle to them, that's a good descriptor for it...they'll get stronger and thicker over the coming months.

That is the question isn't it, how much better is one vs the other and at what percentage point better does one who doesn't want the scar decide it is worth having for the upside. If the scar isn't an issue then fut should be an easy choice. I have had fue twice and I would say fut is going to give you the better result on average but I question the magnitude of how much better. If you go in to the Feller/Bloxham thread and watch the video they just put out, and work out the numbers they put out in it... they'd have you believe that a 3k fue procedure is on average worse looking than a 2k fut procedure. Look thru the patient experiences and decide for yourself if that is true among top docs. My conclusion was that fut is better but not so much that I wanted the scar. I had a buddy that got fut done and his scar was well done and result is great, and he says the stuff he worried about preop don't bother him any more, the fear of styling options, the long scar being visible, the fear of a stretched scar over time, but he said the thing he hates about it is that he's single and every time he's with a girl, and she runs her hand thru his hair, they feel it and he's got to either come clean or lie to them. It may be a small thing or a big thing depending on your personality but I don't like anybody knowing about my transplants and living in fear of a new chick running her hand along my head would bug the shit out of me. Things you don't know til you have the procedure. So there are pros and cons and risks both ways, just comes down to you and what is most important to you, for me fue was the right choice but if I was a higher nw or less vain lol i'd have done fut

No experience, I looked into them during my initial search and thought the clinic did good work I just ultimately decided on going to Belgium for my first procedure. I just remember from that interaction with the clinic that they said that they took a team approach and drs handled all cutting ( punching/slits) but placement was done by trained techs. I think they tend to get overlooked a bit on this forum but they deliver good results and I think they would be a solid choice.

I don't think he does all the extraction himself, techs do. I believe the doc team punches grafts, techs extract, docs do slits, techs place.

You're going to get his or at least close to his type of results with FUT in North America. What makes Couto special is his results are on par or par+ with the best FUT results and you're not supposed to get that with FUE. There are maybe 2-3 fue docs in my lay opinion that can rival FUT doc yields and I don't believe any of them are in NA. Using FUT in North America, you're in great hands with Konior, Hasson, Rahal, Shapiro, Cooley. All those guys are top of the FUT food chain...he doesn't get a lotta love probably because he's pricey as hell but I would put Dr Wesley up there too, love the work I've seen from him.

yes he does.

congrats on getting the procedure! work looks clean enjoy the next little bit with the grafts cause they're all coming out soon and the ugly duckling begins...happy growing

using fue, none.

I actually had more hair than you did from the pics you showed, and am also a diffuse loss patient and I over 2 procedures have had 4600 grafts put in so I don't think the 5k is too high at all. You are definitely not a nw2-3 you're trending to nw 5. Finasteride for our hair loss pattern works better than average so if you can go the every other day route or even the topical route which I hear is showing good results with no systemic sides, it could help your hair significantly. Shock loss with diffusion is definitely a possibility so you want to strengthen your hair the best you can pre procedure and that's where fin would help. I still got shock loss both procedures but nothing that didn't come back the 1st time, and I'm expecting, and praying it does this time as well. It took out healthy hair both times, as I said completely back the 1st time and only 1.5 months post op so wait and see mode currently.

I agree, given what you said you needed Dr Umar makes the most sense and given where you'll be living makes further sense, He's the foremost expert on body hair work so unless it was just financially impossible that'd be my recommendation to anybody considering it! ... I just suggested Dr Bisanga as an option, as a doc whose clinic doesn't shy away from complications that other clinics might, but I certainly can't speak to how your kidney transplant would impact their ability to work with you. Pricing wise I'm sure it'd still be cheaper than 10 us per graft but swooping would be the man to run that by.

His vids look impressive but nobody is worth a 7 yr waiting tho I think that is overstated. Last I heard from his clinic it was 3 years, year to get in for a consult and 2 year waiting list for an appt... which is absurd enough in itself. He's a talented doc, with a big following at the moment and he's cheap, I believe the waiting list just adds to the mystique...he's early stage of his career Dr Lorenzo.

Beard and body hair transplants in general are a long tedious process. They take a lot of work to get minimal grafts and the results are hit and miss. Just from a numbers standpoint, a doc may get on the very high end 2k fue grafts in a day, at a cost of say 7 us per, thats 14k for a day of work. Bodyhair, you get maybe half that many grafts so you got to charge a price to make up for that difference but isnt so outrageous nobody will come so you find prices in the 8-10 us per range for 1k grafts....10k for the day...more work, less money...doesn't really add up unless you specialize in that and corner the market like Dr Umar has... abroad you'll find more docs willing to do it because they'll have teams working while in the us the doc has to be more hands on than their Euro/Canadian counterparts. Canadian docs can delegate to teams so my guess is they feel that at this point they can't do it to a standard that they are happy with or haven't felt the need to add as an adjunct option. In the US there isnt anybody outside of Dr Umar id want to be working on my face, his price is high but last thing you want to skimp on is scarring on your face, go to the expert. Have you talked to the docs in Europe like Dr Bisanga, His clinic has been more tolerant of medical conditions, there was a thread of an hiv patient being accepted while turned away in turkey so its possible they may be open to it and he does beard work, i dont know if he does any further body hair but beard for sure

Lorenzos wait list is somewhere between 5 and 6 months but the occasional opening pops up, in the case of cancelled appointment etc so if you're able to make a quick decision you can get in quickly, I did so it never hurts to check with Pilar at the clinic. Dr Villas wait list is definitely shorter.

very nice result. Seeing as there were a decent amount of beard grafts used, any chance we can see the chin to see if any scarring is present?

Your max grafts available is dictated by your donor, did your doc not give you any indication on how many you may have remaining? As Mattj said, 5 months is too early. Particularly if it's an area that's already had work done. You can go a little sooner on virgin recipient scalp but you still want to give your donor area time to adequately heal up before getting work done again. If it's a recipient area that's had work done prior a year is the usual suggested time to wait between surgeries.

You're on track, month 6 and on is where the bigger changes happen, more growth added thickness so congrats on making it thru the hellish part. Look forward to seeing this grow out! I'm 1 month post op with Dr Lorenzo at the moment, and id say 95% + of my grafts are gone now and got some shock loss so im neck deep in the ugly duckling phase.

Dr Keane and Wasserbauer are a couple out of the US. No idea of how good they are but they are names I came across in my searches. Globally there are more.

Harsh light isn't a friend to anybodies transplanted hair, it just highlights any flaw but it does look thicker than the 6 month post so it's moving in the right direction. Can you post a shot facing forward vs looking down so we can see how the density appears from the front

My hair loss was almost exactly like yours, I had plenty of native hairs with diffusion in a couple pronounced spots and some loss in the crown. What all the posters have said thus far is accurate, meds should be considered and as Swooping said, for our type of hair loss if you can handle them, fin is a must. Don't let the fear scare you off, try them and see how they work for you because for diffuse loss individuals the results can be very good. My last doc, Dr Lorenzo says diffuse patients in his experience tend to respond much better than average to fin. It steadied my crown and regrew some hair in it, very happy with fin and no sides for me. I also got the exact same advice, avoid the crown and do the hairline at my first fue, I was 39 when I did my hairline (40 now), 2500 grafts and if you go thru my posting history you can see I posted a few pics of the work I had done with Dr Bisanga, turned out great, I experienced a little shock loss but it all came back. I was on fin for 5 months at that point. I was advised not to consider crown at the time because I wasn't on fin long enough to see what it could do for regrowth purposes in the crown and because there was still some minaturized hairs in the area that could be strengthened with time and meds. I waited til I was 15 months on fin before doing a 2nd op to address the crown and midscalp with Dr Lorenzo just a month ago. I have some shock loss again but I seem to be one of those that just gets it but I expect it to return like it did the first time as my hair is stronger now. My crown was a small procedure requiring 800 grafts and I have an above average donor according to both my docs with lots of grafts left even post 2 surgeries so I wasn't hesitant to address crown but you can definitely fue into existing hair successfully. Give fin a try.

Maybe I am in the minority but I stopped minox and had no regression where I used it. I actually saw an improvement but in my case the minox was an irritant, and caused constant inflammation. I've had 2 leading ht docs tell me they hate minox and don't advise their patients to use it. Dr Hasson and Dr Lorenzo were the docs who told me to stop. Both felt fin was enough.... I'm at least one case where stopping minox didn't mean the beginning of another hair freefall