mikeyhwk

I would have to agree with JLB, my guess is if there isn't a communication error somewhere that he's just experienced too many clients whining post op about the procedure under performing when it was cases of native hairs that were minaturized being shocked out or natural hair loss progression. Not everybody is well versed on the realities of hair loss, they think a single transplant fixes everything and if they end up not having the change they expected it can lead to a lot of headaches for a doctor... a doctor can say it's in your best interest to be on fin but if if a patient is hell bent on believing it's going to make them sexually dysfunctional and they aren't willing to try it, I could see how a frustrated doctor might be tempted to nudge a patient the direction they want them to go. I agree with you that he shouldn't have lied tho as it does not instill confidence to have your doctor lying to you. I would much rather he just lay it out there, you don't want to use fin, this is the risk you face, sign off saying you know the risks and accept the risks or find another doctor.

There is a subset of patients who may be not be inhibited by fin, if you are part of that subset dutasteride may be the better option.

lmao dont be sorry it is bro theory but we do not have the definitive answer so all reasons out there for why some have sides and others dont are as brotheory as the next. I also wasn't presenting my thoughts as any sort of legit theory, just talking odds, given what we know happens, what could possibly happen downstream given certain conditions but nothing was said or meant in any conclusive manner.I acknowledge there is more to it and said as much. By the way your absolute value theory is total brotheory

I agree, there's definitely more to it than simply what I've laid out as we've all seen cases where these rules didn't apply. I'm certainly not making any definitive claims but the op said his doctor ran some tests that indicated he was likely to experience sides on fin and I just hypothesized what his test may have been and what his doctor may have seen. Only definitive course I've seen is try fin and see what happens.

My apologies from the way you framed your question I wasn't sure. I didn't say it was definitive, just said someone on the lower end of the spectrum could be at higher risk for sides (strictly talking odds) but there are no absolutes and individual response varies, hence why I said there was no conclusive test. If you think it out logically it makes sense given how testosterone works in the body if you're on the low end of the dht spectrum pre fin that would mean your test production is on the low end as you would be producing less thus converting less. The body keeps hormonal balance by converting some of your total test to dht and some to estrogen. Once you include fin that balance gets skewed, your dht production gets reduced which if you're on the low end of the spectrum to start would likely take you to sub optimal levels making you prone to low dht sides...your body then because of the inhibiting of dht conversion is now having more free test in your system which in turn means it'll spike estrogen. So now you've got low dht symptoms and higher than normal estrogen levels. Look thru the overlap of what those symptoms are and you've got the sides guys worry about. I haven't looked to see what studies have been done on it but i'll dig when I have some time as it'd be nice to confirm but just thinking it thru being low dht and high in estrogen would have to put you at higher risk for sides than just being out of range on one side of the conversion right?

if you're asking what test gives you that info, a serum dht test will give you your dht levels. You would want to take it prior fin to get a baseline to measure against as once you take fin the conversion gets skewed. Prior fin higher test means higher dht but once conversion is inhibited, the free test goes up while dht lowered.

A blood test cannot conclusively tell you that you will get fin sides but it can tell you if you are on the lower end of the dht spectrum which in turn tells you that youre total test is on the low end of the spectrum as well. That would put you in the higher risk zone than a male who has test levels in the optimal range. Has your doctor addressed your low test levels?

Dr Wesley is a great choice. He does fantastic work.

Real feedback...stop considering artas...get back to researching. Not to be a dick about this but no top fue surgeon is using artas.

to your right is a find a surgeon by location button and it lists the recommended surgeons on this site by location but that said, if you read on this forum you'll see many of us recommend not limiting yourself by area.Do not be afraid to travel. Proximity and price are 2 of the worst reasons to pick a doctor. You'll find lots of recommended surgeons on this site who have undergone an approval process, they have tons of experience, a great track record of consistent results, and show proficiency with the available surgery options... search thru those docs, see of those which docs works you like the most, do some consults with them and your other top choices and see which ones you feel comfortable with and you may find that your first choice is in Chicago, or San Fran or maybe they are in Texas afterall... hell maybe even out of the country altogether but you're at the earliest of early stages in your research, especially if you're thinking about Bosley, they are hacks. As a general rule avoid the chains, The Bosleys, the Armanis etc

What Spex and Gill said. Both my doctors Dr Bisanga and Dr Lorenzo weren't huge fans of it either. Dr Lorenzo said anything short of a fungal infection, it is unnecessary. He doesn't like it for standard dandruff.

fantastic result couldn't be more happy for you yaz! asmed does brilliant work

thank you for sharing your pre op pic fortune, I was curious to see if part of the problem was that you were transplanting into an area that already had a fair amount of coverage and that does seem to be the case. That is always the risk, I know when I wanted to do crown initially Dr Bisanga told me to leave it fearing the net result would be break even due to loss that implanting in between some minaturized hairs and area that was thinning (im diffuse as well) would lead to. I do hope that Dr Shapiro is correct and you will find growth in time. It is interesting to see how the multiple procedures take a toll and leads to slower growth. Did you notice this trend prior this surgery, did you find your last fut procedure a little slower to grow than your first procedure as well? I agree with ht, you seem to still be in a favorable position overall while this hasnt been an ideal post op ride, its not over, please keep updating. Best of luck! While im at it, do you believe the topical fin was a set back because you had initially gone the oral route, do you tend to believe that if somebody was on topical throughout and not ever gotten serious with oral fin that theyd not have had your experience? i guess you'll know more about fins effect with a little more time back on the oral but I got a friend who has switched to the topical after some time on the oral and im wondering if hes better off switching back

which are? Fml posted about not seeing Dr Lorenzos name in the list of approved docs and I posted a couple docs who all have wait lists as long or longer than Lorenzo, so not sure who you think is in the same league as Dr Lorenzo. I dont wanna argue, if you can find a dr you think is as good as Lorenzo for fue and you can get in sooner use them but imo I think Lorenzos the best fue doc on the planet. Cuotos building the same type of portfolio and hes got way longer wait times. Erdogan is the only other fue doc putting out consistently the same type of results as Lorenzo and the difference in their wait time is a few months at most, so we're back squabbling over 2-3 months and as Dan pointed out and I also mentioned if you're able to leave on quicker notice, cancellations come up regularly and you can get in sooner. 3 years for Cuoto is retarded but waiting an extra month-3 for your first choice over your back ups seems worthwhile to me.

That's the rub tho, who are the drs as good as the guys I named with much shorter waiting lists? Any doctor worth a damn has a few months at minimum and then you're squabbling over a few months... If you're progression is so bad that waiting 6 months to a year for a top doc is out of the question you probably aren't a great candidate for a transplant to begin with.

Oh he's definitely worth the wait, you should never be picking a doctor based on how fast you can get in to see them, it should be based on their work. Nobody likes to wait but the top docs all have waiting lists, that's the downside to being in demand. Talk to most Lorenzo patients, Konior patients, Feriduni patients, all docs with 6+ month waiting lists and see how many regret waiting.

couldn't hurt to call but I am 95% sure your email is just in queue. Dr Lorenzos schedule is insane, the days I was there he was working 7 am to well past midnight. I know for my own surgery I got there 7 am and I didn't leave until were after 1 am and the shuttle at the hotel was done for the day so he drove me to the hotel after that long day. His sister/office coordinator Pilar said he does that 4 days a week with patients in clinic having ops so hes not responding to much of anything those days besides anything emergency that comes up with current past patients requiring quick feedback, fridays he does in office consults and catches up with non emergency issues with current/former patients and then weekends off, in that time hes gotta rest up and spend time with his family...he does that 3 weeks and the 4th week of the month he takes off and that is usually when he catches up with email consults so its just a matter of waiting.

any chance you could post a preop pic unshaven, like how it looked styled preop if you have one?

around 6 months but if you're able to book on shorter notice you can check back for cancellations and snag a spot earlier. I got lucky and got a date within a few weeks, and I've been talking to another member who got a date a couple months out but that's luck, actual booking dates are about 6 months.

Prices are inclusive of vat. Ie if u do 1k grafts all in price is 6k

Dr Lorenzo responds to every message and consult personally so it can take a while. 3 and 4 weeks sometimes longer isnt uncommon to get that initial consult but once youre in contact he responds on a more timely basis and once youre a patient you hear back asap so just be patient hes insanely busy but he will get to it.

Getting lol? suicide bombers are less committed to their cause than Dr Feller is to strip but I would disagree, I think we're getting not just well reputed drs but the top doctors in the world coming down on the side of saying fue survival rates and yields are rivaling fut which DIRECTLY refutes what they're saying.

Have any of the doctors you met told you if you have hair loss progression coming beyond the traction alopecia or is it limited to what was caused by the patka? If you are looking at further progression then absolutely fut is the best and only option going forward, and it may still be even if there is little to no progression coming past the T.A. depending on the level of loss which is hard to advise on without pictures. I believe Dr Rahal consults out of Toronto sometimes tho his main office is in Ottawa, I would get in front of him and get an in person done and see what he advises. He does excellent fut work. I would not go near Seager Hair nor Dr Jones, there are superior options. Another option is to fly out to Vancouver and visit Hasson and Wong. They do amazing Fut work. I fly out to Toronto from here in Vancouver all the time and I know it's a short 4 hr flight so you can do it over a weekend and get a consult done. Both those clinics offer Fue as well, tho of the 2 I think only H&W is usable for fue, but since both offer it, both could advise you without bias as to which procedure would be your best course of action and if it is FUT then those 2 are your best options domestically. I would start there.

I am sorry your experience has been so negative but after reading your case with all due respect it sounds like the problem here was never the transplant but that you were never a suitable candidate for a transplant. I wish more doctors would properly vet patients, not just to see if they have enough donors but in terms of are their expectations and outlook realistic. It seems like there are so many doctors who are willing to do a surgery that others feel like if they don't do it some other doctor will so it might as well be them to cash in so they get lazy on the is this in the best interest of this patient going forward...in reading what you wrote, you sound shocked that hair loss progresses and that further procedures are the norm not the exception... especially given you that you can't take meds this should not have been news to you...you seemed to be unaware that transplanted hair and native hairs weren't the same , ones an illusion of density and one is the real thingm they won't behave the exact same way and there are going to be styling choices that will suit a transplant better than other choices, ie the quiff doable, buzz cut not so much...again this should be stuff you learned early in to your due diligence...and we should all be honest with ourselves as to why we want a procedure, for myself I saw my hairloss it bothered me but my life was pretty damn great with the hair loss as well, so this wasn't something I needed just something I wanted but if you were depressed and doing this out of some knee jerk reaction to a situation in your life like a break up you should be taking a giant step back and hitting the pause button not making a life decision...You seemed rather uninformed and not mentally in the head space to decide if you were a candidate so it's not surprising you sit here today disappointed...I'm glad you shared because your case is a warning to others to properly vet themselves as a candidate.

Choosing between these 2 docs comes down to preference, not only are they both at the top of the fue food chain, they're at the top of the list of transplant docs using either tech. Both think incredibly highly of each other as well, walk into Lorenzos clinic and you will see letters to Dr Lorenzo from Dr Erdogan thanking him for helping Dr Koray elevate his technique and I haven't been to Erdogans clinic but i know Dr Lorenzo has been there to learn from Dr Koray as well. Few docs have given back to the transplant community as much as these 2 in terms of teaching and training other docs so really this is a no lose situation. For your situation, I would get the idea of a one and done at 37 out of your head, you aren't the first guy who was hoping to be a one and done and you won't be the last and they almost universally have the same thing in common, 2nd ops and beyond. Now could you get 10 yrs possibly, depends how your natives hold up and how your hair loss progresses but once you're down this road you're down this road for life so don't make a decision thinking I'm all in now, tho even if that were your plan neither of these docs would think that way so it's really a moot point... plan knowing you're going to probably need to touch up again...and again...and possibly again, it sucks but it's reality. Now I agree with JLB in saying i don't think Dr Erdogan acts in an unethical manner, what both Dr Lorenzo and Dr Koray have in common is that they use the coverage value system and they know very accurately how many grafts they can use without creating any glaring obvious signs of depletion so they know roughly where your progression is going and how many lifetime grafts you got, then it comes down to dr approach, there is no question that Dr Koray is willing to go deeper into you grafts earlier more consistently but that isn't bad per se as he still isn't overspending as he has all the info to know how many grafts you can use and will need going forward but it is up to you to decide for yourself if you see that as a positive or a negative as it has elements of both. The way I personally saw it, I like the smaller procedure approach, one smaller procedures are less traumatic and have a track record for providing better results, not that larger procedures mean failure but smaller procedures just are easier on the body so I like to err on the side of giving myself the best chance for success, you can address problems as they arise, and if there are flaws or improvements needed you can always address it as needed...ie if you do 2.5k grafts on the hairline and you have a gap and a spot that needs a few more grafts and go back in and fill another 500 grafts it's fixed and you know you got the result you want and you're sitting at 3k...if you go 3 k from jump looking for a super dense result, the hope is since you're using more grafts off the bat you won't get any flaws but there is always flaws, it's a transplant it's not native hair so 3k for 3k you'll likely end up further ahead going slower so personally I like the use what you need and then keep improving route but it's not the quick route, it's not flashy, frankly it's a pain in the ass to have to keep shaving your hair down so there are definite pros and cons Where I will disagree with JLB is on the dr Koray is consistently stronger, nobody does better with less grafts than Dr Lorenzo, he is the master of coverage and yield in fue, I think he gets the best results in the world graft for graft but that is why I'm a Lorenzo patient and he's a Koray patient lol...but end of the day we both ended up with the 2 best docs in the fue game imo.