"Elite" vs "Excellent"

[yourcoach]

I've been doing my due diligence before making a choice of surgeon. I have narrowed it down to Cooley, Shapiro, Epstein, Hasson, and Charles. I am having a frustrating experience in some of my conversations with some of these practices. A few of these practices insist they should be at the absolute top of any list. Other say they are in the top 2 or 3, other make no such claims. The "exceptionally proud" very often label the other doctors as good, or competent, or the ultimate back handed complement, a good guy. I know a certain amount of this is subjective, and I know some doctors are universally accepted as being among a the best. I have a hard time separating employees that going to far expressing their pride in their doctor, and those that have an equal opinion, but take a more low key approach. For an individual looking to make a choice of surgeon, when and how does the difference show up between an excellent surgeon and "elite" surgeon?

[yourcoach]

I've been doing my due diligence before making a choice of surgeon. I have narrowed it down to Cooley, Shapiro, Epstein, Hasson, and Charles. I am having a frustrating experience in some of my conversations with some of these practices. A few of these practices insist they should be at the absolute top of any list. Other say they are in the top 2 or 3, other make no such claims. The "exceptionally proud" very often label the other doctors as good, or competent, or the ultimate back handed complement, a good guy. I know a certain amount of this is subjective, and I know some doctors are universally accepted as being among a the best. I have a hard time separating employees that going to far expressing their pride in their doctor, and those that have an equal opinion, but take a more low key approach. For an individual looking to make a choice of surgeon, when and how does the difference show up between an excellent surgeon and "elite" surgeon?

[TheEmperor]

The quality of the staff and consultants is almost as important as other factors -- the consultatns will be your communications link to the doctor in many cases. If you get a bad vibe from one of the culsultants and believe it is unwarranted arrogance, look elsewhere.

 

I would agree that some of them lay it on pretty thick and will often make exaggerated claims to get you in (their) chair.

 

In my research prior to my HT, I contacted two of the docs on your list.

 

One was disqualified because the office (while they have a good reputation here) seemed to approach scheduling a HT like getting a haircut. "Sure, we can get you in for a 2500, next Tuesday" (gum chewing noise in background).

 

The other clinic was disqualified because they were very struuctured in their "screening" process and even getting some of the consultatnts time for a phone consult required an appointment. I'm no going to wait a week to speak with a non-doc.

 

Lesson to docs, your consultants are a huge part of your business.

 

The doctor I eventually chose has perhaps the best reputation in the HT community and his consultant was very professional and accomodating.

[yourcoach]

Thank you for your reply. I enjoyed your post under the subject "Make the decision..." on August 16. I would be interested in a similar analysis of the doctors on my list. I would also like to know what is your basis for your evaluations? Thanks.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Emp, careful there buddy, with a little deductive, SAT-esque reasoning you might give yerself away!

 

Coach, what kinda of graft count are you contemplating, and how did this match up with what the docs you have listed recommended, and how does that match up with the results of said session sizes that you have seen from the said docs?

[the B spot]

yourcoach--- I hope there has been no issues with Shapiro Medical----if you have ANY issues at all, please feel free to contact me and I will make sure they get worked out.

 

Take Care,

Jason

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:

Emp, careful there buddy, with a little deductive, SAT-esque reasoning you might give yerself away!

 

 

If someone is reading my posts that closely and remembering everyhting I say. . thats just sad.

[Bill - Seemiller]

yourcoach,

 

Hair transplantation is elective surgery and I have found in many cases (generally speaking) that some clinics are overly aggressive in sales.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to two major factors:

 

1) Evaluating patient results from surgeons you are considering and concluding who YOU are most impressed with (despite what others are telling you).

 

2) Your personal connection with the clinic / surgeon you are considering.

 

Let's be honest....everyone has a top 5, but did you notice that no top 5 is the same?

 

Clearly some are using objective standards to form their own opinions, but in many cases, it's subjective.

 

For example, the question "which doctor creates the most natural looking hairline" can be answered both objectively and subjectively.

 

For example, looking to make sure a surgeon is building a hairline with all single follicular unit grafts and shingled rather than in a corn row pattern is objective. Deciding if a hairline is artistic and aesthetically pleasing is somewhat subjective.

 

In summary: don't take anyone's word for it - draw conclusions based on extensive research which will include some (but not all) of the feedback you receive.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[badger_01]

I'd expect you to get a great result with any of the docs on your list. Go with the one you get the best vibe from. Trust is very important when you get in that chair, so trust your gut.

[Dewayne]

yourcoach,

 

If someone searched my posts back in Jan / Feb they would find a similar one as this. I must say that some of the consultants don't realize how fragile this decision can be, and one or two wrong words or vibes can be the difference.

 

To be completely honest here, and Cooley is my man and I'll go back if needed, his consultant did a little of what you're talking about. I had talked to several who did the same, and I remember saying...."You don't have to say anything about other clinics because Dr. Cooley has an excellent reputation....." or something similar. She was more like "one of the top 10 in the world..." But, I can tell you Cooley does none of that himself. While talking with him, he was extremely complimentary of the others on my list. They are masters in the operating room, I can attest to that. In fact, the 'consultant' does a lot of the cutting grafts all day as well. There was one person not involved in doing something directly related to my hair but she was prepping everything, getting lunch, etc. But not a consultant. I'm only saying this as I don't think they put as much thought into this part of their practice as the might should. I doubt he, or some of these other guys, has ever had a marketing or salesmanship class....

 

Also, Dr. Charles was noticeable complimentary. He even said he'd let the other guy do his own hair. I also remember Cooley saying something like "I've seen some of his work and it looks great...", etc.

 

So, just like my assistant in my business; it's difficult to train one to be exactly like you'd like. I will say Cooley seems to spend nearly all of his time in the operating room so I think some of the front office type stuff is not as perfect as the surgery and results themselves.

 

I'll add that Jotronic was very good to consult with, and I tried reaching Shapiro but I didn't realize at the time that B-Spot was the consultant. I was trying for Janna and she was in surgery. The only reason I ruled those two out was more of a convenience factor related to distance, missed work, etc.

 

In the end, I figured if the top 5 or 10 are all close and provide world-class results, why not use price, distance, etc. as one of the final factors?

[Smoothy]

Elite vs Excellent is good segmentation. The question is what quantifies "Elite"-- TOP 5 for what type of procedures and what needs?

Cosmetic surgeons some are the best with eyes, others face, others, breast, others lipo/lifts, ect.

No different with HT doctors-- Some better at hairlines and temples, others better at crown work, others focus on total coverage for example.

I think it depends on how many surgeries a doctor has done on what type of patient. The more cases you do lets say with hairlines, the more profcient you will be over a doctor who does most cases of crown work for example.

 

I think the docs you mentioned above are TOP10 in certain areas.

 

SMOOTHY

Dr. Shapiro

Propecia/Rogain xtra

MSM/Saw Pallmetto/Zinc

Nioxin Shampoo line

Zrii 3oz daily

[Jotronic]

I'll add that Jotronic was very good to consult with,

 

 

Dewayne,

 

Thanks for that. That was very nice of you to say.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I'll add that Jotronic was very good to consult with,

 

I'll second that. Joe (JoTronic), along with Pat Hennessey and former forum moderator Robert are people I hold in high respect and consider friends and mentors. In my opinon, their ethics are of the highest quality and I work to lead by their example.

 

Giving Joe the credit due him is not to take away from any other clinic. But I don't have any experience consulting with the other clinics you've mentioned as a prospective patient.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[the B spot]

Dewayne--Matt Zupan is the consultant at Shapiro Medical--I am but a humble internet patient advocate

 

Seriously--I do not arrange or schedule appointments, etc...

 

But I agree that Jotronics is a good guy to consult with. Or talk cars with. Or drinking.....

[omviki]

all of the coalition member are good doctores. its depend what is your goal and what type of results you want

[Ailene]

At Carolina Dermatology Haircenter our clinic is a little different than many other clinics.

 

I am not a "consultant". We do not have a consultant. I understand this limits the availability I have to the phone or even emails but when I do discuss a patients situation with them they have my total attention.

 

I am the clinical supervisor for the entire clinic. My role in the consultation is to educate the patient. I have worked in surgery with Dr. Cooley since 2000.

 

Many times a patient will tell me they have done their due dilligence but until I discuss all of the issues Dr. Cooley feels are important in making the decision to move forward with a transplant. Part of this is to discuss Dr. Cooley's qualifications. I also tell any patient who enquires that there are other doctors who we all admire and who do excellant work. Many of them Dr. Cooley feels were his mentors and many of them I have personally observed or had the honor of assisting in a live surgery. I do tell all my patients that research is their best friend and if asked I will tell them how we stand apart from many.

 

We are very open about our approach to surgery and we care about the education of the patient and their decision. We do not subscribe to a "sales approach" but truly want this decision to be one that is a good investment.

 

We feel so honored by all the patients who post their results and the positive feedback we receive from their experiences with us. If anyone has suggestions on how we can improve this process I am always open to improvement.

 

Thanks to everyone, Bill, Janna, Robert, DeWayne and all the others who have been so supportive of our work.

 

Ailene

[Robert_]

Interesting thread. I know its my own fault, but I've been out of the loop for a while so I won't even speculate on TheEmperor's first post.

 

(I do need to get back over here and contribute again, I know)

 

But I haven't been so out of the loop to know that the same physicians that I recommended to forum posters back when I was the moderator are the same that I'd recommend to my closest family members to this day.

 

Your list: "Cooley, Shapiro, Epstein, Hasson, and Charles"

 

Though I'm curious as to why Wong isn't on there, (it may just be your personal preference in his approach) I will say that if I was to go back in the chair at this exact minute, I wouldn't hesitate to consult with any one of those docs and discuss a plan of action that enabled me to safely and effectively obtain my goals.

 

Now, as some of the other posters pointed out, lots of people have their "top 5" or "top 10" or whatever. I think that's an interesting way to look at it (especially now that football season is back). This is why: hair restoration surgery is EVERY BIT as much as an art as it is medicinal practice. Naturally, some docs are going to apply their brush to the canvas with their own style - their own finesse. I really do believe that it's because of this that some people draw their favorites. It's human nature.

 

The bottom line is your safety during and after the procedure and your appearance after the transplant has matured. Would I trust every one of these docs to work on me? You bet I would. Every one of them is HIGHLY dedicated to their craft and every one of them have publicly displayed their results in exaggerated detail time and time again for years.

 

So, in my opinion, the choice is yours now to figure out if you want a Porsche, a Bentley, or a Ferrari. Comparing your head to a fine automobile really isn't that much of a stretch as an analogy when you start to really study the painstaking attention-to-detail that each of these physicians commit themselves to every day.

 

Oh, and I may sound like a cheerleader but trust me, I'm not. If you had a doc up there that I had any reservation about it, I'll tell you flat out.

 

Oh, and finally, if you didn't already know, I've had two procedures by Dr. Cooley and no one else and I'm not only still happy, I'm ecstatic. Seriously, Dr. Cooley, Ailene and the staff at Carolina Dermatology gave me my 20's back. If I was to ever go back (no plans at all at the moment and don't foresee it any time remotely soon) it would be back to Dr. Cooley.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that you've narrowed it down to five great docs. Study as much information on each of them and check out every available results photo that you can find (there are a TON around here somewhere, I'll look around and see if I can remember my way around ). You'll begin to be able to recognize the individual physicians' artistry after a while if you look long enough. I know this for a fact because I've studied more hair restoration photos than any sane person should.

 

Got any more questions, post em. I'll pop back in and help you out if you'd like.

 

-Robert

[Dewayne]

A legend from the past speaks! I've read a lot of old posts where you were moderating, Robert, so it's good to see something more recent from you. I went to Dr. Cooley, in part, because of the detailed writeup you posted about your experience there.

 

I think yourcoach was just listing the clinics he was consulting with / considering, instead of a definitive top 5 list.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Robert,

 

It's great to see you back on the forum. It's ashame you aren't here with us in Montreal for the Ten Year Anniversary party of the Hair Transplant Network. It would have been nice to meet you face to face.

 

I hope you stick around and share your expertise with our fellow members.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[mistermike]

Hey Robert - welcome back! You gave me a lot of great advice in the past... it's nice to have you posting again.