Stop calling hairlines "juvenile", "mature" or "age appropiate"

[MattJosh]

2 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

They have the same hair, just different lighting and wet vs dry hair in Cruise's pictures. Pitt shaved the temples for a movie role. Cavill didn't have a hair transplant. Tremendous straw grasping you did there, you truly are clueless if you don't understand how lighting can influence the perception of hair. That's why there are so many bad doctors out there, because they use favorable lighting and low resolution pictures to show their results as better than they actually are. You are doing the opposite and showing pictures with bad lighting to prove your crazy theory.

 

 

You need to be a happy man accepting that there's people out there with better genetics than you, delusion is not happiness. Many people in Hollywood had hair transplants, just not Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise or Henry Cavill.

James Franco is a good example of a celebrity with minimal hair loss that got a hair transplant, and the change is pretty evident:

 

He has unlimited money, same Hollywood friend's circle and connections...yet the small change is noticeable when you compare pictures with the same lighting. Do you really think Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt can get away with it and he can't? Non sense, all of them have the same amount resources, just Cruise and Pitt didn't have a hair transplant.

Thank you for proving my point, completely clueless you are buddy

it appears that you have certain people you admire on a pedestal and refuse to think otherwise , whatever makes you happy :)

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Just now, MattJosh said:

Thank you for proving my point, completely clueless you are buddy

it appears that you have certain people you admire on a pedestal and refuse to think otherwise , whatever makes you happy

 

 

- Presents a well crafted argument and a true before and after picture of a celebrity who really got a hair transplant to prove the opposite.

- "Duh you clueless you proved my point buddy hehe"

[Gatsby]

@NegativeNorwood what's with the axe to grind? Have you been butchered in the past like me? It's cool to agree to disagree. All the best!

[NegativeNorwood]

Just now, Gatsby said:

@NegativeNorwood what's with the axe to grind? Have you been butchered in the past like me? It's cool to agree to disagree. All the best!

No axe, no agenda. Haven't got a hair transplant yet. Just my opinion.

100% agree with you, diversity of opinions is good and we can agree to disagree. All the best for you too 🤝

[Judelaw]

I have to agree with OP, mature hairline is a really stupid term unless used in regards to surgical design. 
 

Google “mature hairline” and pretend you’re a young guy trying to convince himself medication isn’t necessary. It’s pictures of clearly balding NW2-3s and the articles treat mature hairlines and MPB as two completely different things. 
 

The 3rd search result comes from one of the biggest hair loss products in America, saying an inch of recession is totally normal and the majority of hair loss “specialists” agree that a maturing(receding) hairline is not balding. 
 

[Rafael Manelli]

Superb thread. 

But let me blow your mind; Tom Cruise has actually receded since he was 22. This is what his hairline used to look like in 1984. 

It was even more aggressive than it is now. Crazy right? Maybe 1 in 100 white men are as lucky as Tom. 

[Rafael Manelli]

5 hours ago, NegativeNorwood said:

@XanaduBtw, what differences a man from a kid (or a woman) is not hair, but the bones and skeletal frame:

 

A feminine hairline is not going to transform a guy with masculine bone structure into a female:

 

 

And a masculine hairline won't turn a 15 year old female into an adult male (Shiloh has exactly the same hairline as his father, Brad Pitt):

 

 

You live in Son Goku's cloud if you truly believe a single word of what you wrote.

Good demonstration that while there are certainly masculine and feminine hairline shapes, there is also some degree of overlap. Some men have hairlines that lean towards the feminine side, and some women have hairlines that would look fine on a man.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

8 hours ago, Judelaw said:

I have to agree with OP, mature hairline is a really stupid term unless used in regards to surgical design. 
 

Google “mature hairline” and pretend you’re a young guy trying to convince himself medication isn’t necessary. It’s pictures of clearly balding NW2-3s and the articles treat mature hairlines and MPB as two completely different things. 
 

The 3rd search result comes from one of the biggest hair loss products in America, saying an inch of recession is totally normal and the majority of hair loss “specialists” agree that a maturing(receding) hairline is not balding. 
 

 

7 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Superb thread. 

But let me blow your mind; Tom Cruise has actually receded since he was 22. This is what his hairline used to look like in 1984. 

It was even more aggressive than it is now. Crazy right? Maybe 1 in 100 white men are as lucky as Tom. 

 

7 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Good demonstration that while there are certainly masculine and feminine hairline shapes, there is also some degree of overlap. Some men have hairlines that lean towards the feminine side, and some women have hairlines that would look fine on a man.

 

Thanks gentlemen, the term indeed is completely senseless. Why don't people use "mature crown", by the same logic?

"That's not balding, that's a mature crown. Is normal for your age. Don't get a HT, ethical surgeon X will reject you if he truly cares about you"

The amount of absurdity is astonishing, yet people cope in the most colorful ways possible to not admit they are balding or that they are not as masculine as they mom told them because it is comfortable to them to continue that way.

PS: Tom Cruise actually has a "mature hairline" too....wow, great insight Rafael. I want a "mature hairline"...like Tom Cruise's 😉

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[mister_25]

To me the term "mature hairline" doesn't mean "not balding". Its more of a point where your hairline is balding but currently not at a point that is working against you aesthetically. Its often used to downplay the sense of urgency that people have for HTs and rightfully so, just not the answer that provides a logical reason as to why they shouldn't have a HT at 25 at NW2.

[Rafael Manelli]

I think the truth is that the hairs at the very front, corners and temple points are the most vulnerable to DHT. So they are the first to go in the balding process, and sometimes the hairs behind it are resistant enough that they don't fall out in the person's lifetime. Same reason some men seem to progress to a Norwood 4 but no further - the Norwood 4 hairs are more sensitive to DHT than the Norwood 5 hairs, and in some men the hairs in the nw5 and above zone are tough enough to resist further balding during the man's life.

 

Perhaps if we lived to 300 years old, we'd see a lot of Norwood 1s like Ronald Reagan and Andrew Napolitano start to bald. 

[mr_peanutbutter]

some people in sopranos had absolute killer hairlines

vincent pastore

 

frank vincent

 

michael imperoli

 

 

maybe instead of juvenile hairline we should call it italian hairline?

 

 

also the wig from steve van zandt

 

[mr_peanutbutter]

23 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

To me the term "mature hairline" doesn't mean "not balding". Its more of a point where your hairline is balding but currently not at a point that is working against you aesthetically. Its often used to downplay the sense of urgency that people have for HTs and rightfully so, just not the answer that provides a logical reason as to why they shouldn't have a HT at 25 at NW2.

yes i think that describes it the best

 

 

[NegativeNorwood]

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I think the truth is that the hairs at the very front, corners and temple points are the most vulnerable to DHT. So they are the first to go in the balding process, and sometimes the hairs behind it are resistant enough that they don't fall out in the person's lifetime. Same reason some men seem to progress to a Norwood 4 but no further - the Norwood 4 hairs are more sensitive to DHT than the Norwood 5 hairs, and in some men the hairs in the nw5 and above zone are tough enough to resist further balding during the man's life.

 

Perhaps if we lived to 300 years old, we'd see a lot of Norwood 1s like Ronald Reagan and Andrew Napolitano start to bald. 

 

Agree with you.

From Couto himself:

"Temple peaks NEVER recede WITHOUT receding THE HAIRLINE FIRST, so restoring
the hairline and not the temple peaks definitely provides an unnatural result.

In MOST MEN, the right corner advances more than the left corner,
and of course this also happens in temples, which generates
an ASYMMETRY in the lateral frame of the forehead that
the doctor recommends to be restored."

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgUForkKoM1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

Note how he used recession, not maturation.

"Don't get a hair transplant for your temples, you have a mature hairline"...pure nonsense again. But it doesn't matter to some, it won't get thru their thick skull the same way DHT does, despite presenting evidence posted by one of the best surgeons.

[NegativeNorwood]

3 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

some people in sopranos had absolute killer hairlines

vincent pastore

 

frank vincent

 

michael imperoli

 

 

maybe instead of juvenile hairline we should call it italian hairline?

 

 

also the wig from steve van zandt

 

 

"But, but....they are feminine because they are not Norwood 2!!!!" LOL

I want whatever those people are smoking, must be pretty fun.

[Rafael Manelli]

I'm amused at the term "Italian hairline" 

But it might be on to something. Both these men are of Italian origin, Mariano di Vaio and Judge Napolitano. 

Norwood level: Italian. 

[NegativeNorwood]

33 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I'm amused at the term "Italian hairline" 

But it might be on to something. Both these men are of Italian origin, Mariano di Vaio and Judge Napolitano. 

Norwood level: Italian. 

 

True, the norwood reaper is afraid of the almighty italians.

It also explains why I haven't seen an italian surgeon recommended here...they barely have any work to do haha

[Al - Moderator]

5 hours ago, NegativeNorwood said:

True, the norwood reaper is afraid of the almighty italians.

It also explains why I haven't seen an italian surgeon recommended here...they barely have any work to do haha

 

I am full Italian as far back as I can trace, but unfortunately for me I seem to have gotten all of the hair loss genes for the entire Italian nationality. My dad had that super thick hair with a great hair line up into his 70s and didn't even start going gray until 70. Me though, I was a NW 6 in my early 20s and my hair just kept getting worse from there.

[Al - Moderator]

I think this entire argument is pretty stupid really. What's the difference whether you call it a mature hair line or NW 2. It means the same thing. If a Dr tells you he thinks it's better not to do a hair transplant because he says you have a nice, mature hair line and you tell him "No. I'm a NW 2", he is not going to change his mind. He will just say "Right. a NW 2 is a mature, adult hairline. You don't have any real loss".

 

[NegativeNorwood]

8 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

 

I am full Italian as far back as I can trace, but unfortunately for me I seem to have gotten all of the hair loss genes for the entire Italian nationality. My dad had that super thick hair with a great hair line up into his 70s and didn't even start going gray until 70. Me though, I was a NW 6 in my early 20s and my hair just kept getting worse from there.

 

Sad to read that mate, still you probably have god tier italian donor hair characteristics. 

My grandma was italian, but from the north, and in my family we have finer hair on average compared to south italians (except my sister, who not only has a low set hairline, but also strong temples and very dense hair, so she would be an outlier).

Edited February 24, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[Melvin- Admin]

6 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I'm amused at the term "Italian hairline" 

But it might be on to something. Both these men are of Italian origin, Mariano di Vaio and Judge Napolitano. 

Norwood level: Italian. 

Italians and other southern Europeans (Spanish, Portuguese) usually have more male pattern baldness in their general population than East Asians for example. 

These two guys are outliers. Again, we should never classify a population by outliers. It’s like if I said Italians are all Norwood 7s because Jon Polito is a Norwood 7. 

[Rafael Manelli]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Italians and other southern Europeans (Spanish, Portuguese) usually have more male pattern baldness in their general population than East Asians for example. 

These two guys are outliers. Again, we should never classify a population by outliers. It’s like if I said Italians are all Norwood 7s because Jon Polito is a Norwood 7. 

Of course, nobody is saying all Italians have nw1. I was simply amused by Mr peanutbutter's comment on the Italian hairlines. 

Nevertheless, they do seem to have thicker hair on average than other Europeans. Same with Spanish. 

Just on average. 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Of course, nobody is saying all Italians have nw1. I was simply amused by Mr peanutbutter's comment on the Italian hairlines. 

Nevertheless, they do seem to have thicker hair on average than other Europeans. Same with Spanish. 

Just on average. 

 

Yes, Mediterraneans on average have very thick hair. Not all, but the majority. As far as I’m aware, the only ethnic group with consistently low hairlines are pure native Americans. 

[Rafael Manelli]

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, Mediterraneans on average have very thick hair. Not all, but the majority. As far as I’m aware, the only ethnic group with consistently low hairlines are pure native Americans. 

Yes native Americans seem to be among the only groups 'free from the curse', so to speak. I recognise that man you posted but can't recall his name. Insanely thick hair. If you saw that hair on a white man you'd think it were a wig. 

[shiba1985]

I dont think you understand what the doctors are trying to tell you. Yes there are some people that will keep their pre pubertal hairline without any recession like Judge Napolitano from fox news. But those are extremely rare and an exception. 

It is more common to have maturing of the hairline. Even if someone has no androgenetic alopecia, most men will have some degree of this so called maturation. It is not a "disease" like androgenetic alopecia which is a disease and pathological. It does not continue to get worse like androgenetic alopecia.

 

If you have unlimited hair follicles sure you can try to get your prepubertal hairline, but with limited follicles the best you should hope for is the matured hairline foud most commonly in nature. if you try to get to the pre pubertal harline with androgenetic alopecia you will look foolish because of the unnaturalness that comes from lack of density not just simply cause the hairline is too low

Edited February 24, 2023 by shiba1985

[Rafael Manelli]

1 minute ago, shiba1985 said:

I dont think you understand what the doctors are trying to tell you. Yes there are some people that will keep their pre pubertal hairline without any recession like Judge Napolitano from fox news. But those are extremely rare and an exception. 

It is more common to have maturing of the hairline. Even if someone has not androgenetic alopecia, most men will have some degree of this. 

 

If you have unlimited hair follicles sure you can try to get your prepubertal hairline, but with limited follicles the best you should hope for is the matured hairline foud most commonly in nature. if you try to get to the pre pubertal harline with androgenetic alopecia you will look foolish because of the unnaturalness that comes from lack of density not just simply cause the hairline is too low

The key point is that a maximally youthful hairline is often ill-advised simply because patients lack the donor capacity to fill it in