Dr Kostis or Dr Bisanga only package?

[MaverickCrypt]

Hello,

 

I was given a quote of 4 euro per graft using Dr Kostis & Dr Bisanga package, which as far as I understood is that Dr Bisanga will make the decisions and planning the HT but Dr Kostis will punch the grafts and will make the operative/practical part.

I was quoted of 7 euro per graft for Dr Bisanga only package. Should I go with Bisanga and is the price worth it?

[Belve]

43 minutes ago, MaverickCrypt said:

Hello,

 

I was given a quote of 4 euro per graft using Dr Kostis & Dr Bisanga package, which as far as I understood is that Dr Bisanga will make the decisions and planning the HT but Dr Kostis will punch the grafts and will make the operative/practical part.

I was quoted of 7 euro per graft for Dr Bisanga only package. Should I go with Bisanga and is the price worth it?

I think there is also a third option with only dr kostis at 2.5 euro/graft ? 

[MaverickCrypt]

13 minutes ago, Belve said:

I think there is also a third option with only dr kostis at 2.5 euro/graft ? 

I was not offered such option but I guess it is possible. But I want to get a good procedure, and I want to ask what's the difference between Kostis and Bisanga in that regard

Edited February 12, 2023 by MaverickCrypt

[Belve]

3 hours ago, MaverickCrypt said:

I was not offered such option but I guess it is possible. But I want to get a good procedure, and I want to ask what's the difference between Kostis and Bisanga in that regard

Not important difference to pay the higher price. Select the lower package to save money. 

[MaverickCrypt]

9 hours ago, Belve said:

Not important difference to pay the higher price. Select the lower package to save money. 

But if selecting Dr Kostis then it's not a top tier doctor anymore, in that case I could have decided other doctors / cheaprer perhaps as well.
But from the other hand 7 euro per graft which an estimated of ~3000 grafts (and this may be increased amount during the procedure) not including 21% VAT is a lot of money.

I really want a good doctor to do my procedure but I don't know if it worth that kind of amount of money, and if I decide to compromise on Dr Kostis will it be a better choice to think about "top 10-20" doctors instead?

[Belve]

15 minutes ago, MaverickCrypt said:

But if selecting Dr Kostis then it's not a top tier doctor anymore, in that case I could have decided other doctors / cheaprer perhaps as well.
But from the other hand 7 euro per graft which an estimated of ~3000 grafts (and this may be increased amount during the procedure) not including 21% VAT is a lot of money.

I really want a good doctor to do my procedure but I don't know if it worth that kind of amount of money, and if I decide to compromise on Dr Kostis will it be a better choice to think about "top 10-20" doctors instead?

The only package that I would select would be the package where dr bisanga does at least the incisions and dr kostis the extractions, which is still quite expensive compared to other good doctors who do most parts of the procedure by themselves. So you could consider other choices too.
 

For example dr Pekiner who is top doctor charges 2.7 without extra tax and he does the whole procedure by himself. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Belve

[Spring15]

Damn didn't know Bisanga charges 7 euros per graft now. De Freitas or Pekiner are much more cost effective for same results

[Marlo]

7 EUR per graft + VAT is wild. Don't know another doctor within Europe that charges that much. 

[A_4_Archan]

19 hours ago, MaverickCrypt said:

Hello,

 

I was given a quote of 4 euro per graft using Dr Kostis & Dr Bisanga package, which as far as I understood is that Dr Bisanga will make the decisions and planning the HT but Dr Kostis will punch the grafts and will make the operative/practical part.

I was quoted of 7 euro per graft for Dr Bisanga only package. Should I go with Bisanga and is the price worth it?

Thn u cn consider de freitas , fuegenix ,dr couto ..i have talk to dr ahmad from fuegenix and he does everything himself ...i guess evn implantation as well

[mr_peanutbutter]

2 hours ago, Marlo said:

7 EUR per graft + VAT is wild. Don't know another doctor within Europe that charges that much. 

if people are willing to pay it i dont see anything wrong with it. maybe he has many patients from the usa

im suprised couto and zarev arent there yet. 

 

 

[hairman22]

Bisanga I think is a good surgeon.

Although I have not seen many results on high norwoods

He dose have some questionable advice though. He thinks Oral Minoxidil is as good as Oral Finasteride despite no long term data to support this.

I have been using Oral Minox only but I am not expecting it to maintain my hair long term

[BaldGuy]

7 euro/graft is too overpiced, i dont think anyone from europe would select him at that price..Its like he doesnt want patients to select him to do the whole procedure anymore, but rather he promotes the lower package and prefers to share the procedure with Dr Kostis at 4 euro/graft which is also expensive compared to other top doctors...

There are also a couple of patients who had paid for dr bisanga to do the whole procedure but finally he shared it with Dr Kostis.So by that it is shown that he prefers this way.

Edited February 13, 2023 by BaldGuy

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, hairman22 said:

Bisanga I think is a good surgeon.

Although I have not seen many results on high norwoods

He dose have some questionable advice though. He thinks Oral Minoxidil is as good as Oral Finasteride despite no long term data to support this.

I have been using Oral Minox only but I am not expecting it to maintain my hair long term

First of all, he said he switched from oral finasteride to oral minoxidil and saw no difference. What’s wrong with giving his own personal experience. I have been taking oral minoxidil for 6 months, and it’s a game changer. 

This is getting absurd. Oral minoxidil has been around WAY before finasteride. As a matter of fact, it started off as a blood pressure medication that had a secondary effect of hair growth. How on earth can anyone say there aren’t any long term studies. It’s the EXACT same drug as the topical, except oral. You guys need to stay off reddit. 
 

Here’s a study from 1987, is 30+ years long term enough.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962287700929

[hairman22]

13 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

First of all, he said he switched from oral finasteride to oral minoxidil and saw no difference. What’s wrong with giving his own personal experience. I have been taking oral minoxidil for 6 months, and it’s a game changer. 

This is getting absurd. Oral minoxidil has been around WAY before finasteride. As a matter of fact, it started off as a blood pressure medication that had a secondary effect of hair growth. How on earth can anyone say there aren’t any long term studies. It’s the EXACT same drug as the topical, except oral. You guys need to stay off reddit. 
 

Here’s a study from 1987, is 30+ years long term enough.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962287700929

Melvin you mis interpreted my point

 

There are no long term studies showing oral minoxidil is as effective as finesteride

 

I really wish it was the case but i expect oral minox results will decline like topical does after 2 years.

But we have Bisanga claiming its as good as finasteride it is just not been proven

 

For example no really many people maintain on oral minox compared to finnasteride but we have Bisanga saying its just as affective.

It just has not been proven long term

Edited February 13, 2023 by hairman22

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, hairman22 said:

Melvin you min intereputed my point

 

There are no long term studies showing oral minoxidil is as effective as finesteride

 

I really wish it was the case but i expect oral minox results will decline like topical does after 2 years.

But we have Bisanga claiming its as good as finasteride it is just not been proven

That’s what he sees in his practice, do you want him to lie. I really don’t get why people are so against oral minoxidil. I don’t think anyone said it’s a long term replacement for finasteride, or that finasteride doesn’t have its place. But oral minoxidil is a good option for those unwilling to take finasteride, and we know at least in the short term it give’s similar gains.

[hairman22]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

That’s what he sees in his practice, do you want him to lie. I really don’t get why people are so against oral minoxidil. I don’t think anyone said it’s a long term replacement for finasteride, or that finasteride doesn’t have its place. But oral minoxidil is a good option for those unwilling to take finasteride, and we know at least in the short term it give’s similar gains.

Lie no.

But maybe wait a few years to see patients maintain their on it alone before drawing to any conclusions

 

Im using it myself & it has been useful for my crown just think it is too early to overhype the drug. Better to judge in a few years rather than just a year

 

I am not against oral minoxidil at all been using 2.5mg per day with no issues

[Otis james]

I’ve been told I should go with Bisanga but I really can’t afford him! In fact, Belgium in general is now off my list, which is sad. I know people say budget shouldn’t be a consideration but how do I pay for it? Monopoly money?!

[mr_peanutbutter]

13 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

First of all, he said he switched from oral finasteride to oral minoxidil and saw no difference. What’s wrong with giving his own personal experience. I have been taking oral minoxidil for 6 months, and it’s a game changer. 

This is getting absurd. Oral minoxidil has been around WAY before finasteride. As a matter of fact, it started off as a blood pressure medication that had a secondary effect of hair growth. How on earth can anyone say there aren’t any long term studies. It’s the EXACT same drug as the topical, except oral. You guys need to stay off reddit. 
 

Here’s a study from 1987, is 30+ years long term enough.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0190962287700929

did you make a thread about your minox experience? how mg are you taking? could you microdose it like finasteride? any sideeffects like puffy eyes? what would happen if you stop? accelerate loss?  would be extremely interesting to read. or a good video/podcast idea

 

tbh i start to think atm we do it the wrong (oral finasteride, topical minox) and the right way would be topical androgen and oral minox

Edited February 14, 2023 by mr_peanutbutter

[Marlo]

21 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

if people are willing to pay it i dont see anything wrong with it. maybe he has many patients from the usa

im suprised couto and zarev arent there yet. 

 

 

Not saying there is anything wrong with it, market dictates price. But I would never advice anyone to go there at that cost, imo there are enough equally good (or better) surgeons in Europe at lower price points. 

[Melvin- Admin]

7 euros per graft is not high for a surgeon of Dr. Bisanga’s caliber. In America, patients wouldn’t think twice to pay $7 per graft for his skill. I paid $7 per graft for my second procedure back in 2015, I was not rich in anyway. I understand hair mills have affected the prices in Europe, but you can’t expect to get a Mercedez Benz for the price of a volkswagen. 

Some people are okay with buying a suit off the rack that doesn’t quite fit good. Some people rather go to a bespoke tailor and get it fitted perfectly. The people who think “a suits a suit” are more likely to buy something cheap off the rack. The people who think “hair is hair” are more likely to choose based on cost.

Nothing wrong with that, as I said theres a market for everyone. There are Michelin star restaurants and there’s McDonalds, they both give you food which provides sustenance, but the experience and quality differ immensely. I like to believe this forum seeks Michelin style quality. Reddit seeks McDonalds. 

Now, there are some quality surgeons that are cheaper. But they’re not a solution, just a compromise. You save a few thousand dollars, but you end up in a waitlist of 2-3 years. Sometimes the consultation alone takes a full year. To keep with the restaurant analogy, it’s like getting a reservation to a restaurant for 2025. 

This means you could essentially go from a Norwood 3 to a Norwood 6 by the time you get surgery, the cost would be higher anyway, and in all that you went bald, which is what you we’re trying to avoid with surgery in the first place. It’s nonsensical to me.

The market has to dictate prices. If the demand goes too high, the cost must go up. Otherwise, no one benefits. I don’t see any benefit in waiting for a surgeon for years, when there’s in many times equally or even more talented surgeons available for a higher price. Hell, in all those years you wait for one surgeon you could’ve paid off your surgery and been living with more hair. 
 

Anyway that’s my 0.2 cents. 

[Mike10]

The US is a different market though. 7 euros is that not a price high for Europe? At the end, the demand dictates the offer, so I can't say nothing against. 

For oral minox, I would agree with hairman that the jury is still out there for the long term. It does not act against the root cause which is DHT so I remain a bit sceptical but we will see

[Marlo]

6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

7 euros per graft is not high for a surgeon of Dr. Bisanga’s caliber. In America, patients wouldn’t think twice to pay $7 per graft for his skill. I paid $7 per graft for my second procedure back in 2015, I was not rich in anyway. I understand hair mills have affected the prices in Europe, but you can’t expect to get a Mercedez Benz for the price of a volkswagen. 

Some people are okay with buying a suit off the rack that doesn’t quite fit good. Some people rather go to a bespoke tailor and get it fitted perfectly. The people who think “a suits a suit” are more likely to buy something cheap off the rack. The people who think “hair is hair” are more likely to choose based on cost.

Nothing wrong with that, as I said theres a market for everyone. There are Michelin star restaurants and there’s McDonalds, they both give you food which provides sustenance, but the experience and quality differ immensely. I like to believe this forum seeks Michelin style quality. Reddit seeks McDonalds. 

Now, there are some quality surgeons that are cheaper. But they’re not a solution, just a compromise. You save a few thousand dollars, but you end up in a waitlist of 2-3 years. Sometimes the consultation alone takes a full year. To keep with the restaurant analogy, it’s like getting a reservation to a restaurant for 2025. 

This means you could essentially go from a Norwood 3 to a Norwood 6 by the time you get surgery, the cost would be higher anyway, and in all that you went bald, which is what you we’re trying to avoid with surgery in the first place. It’s nonsensical to me.

The market has to dictate prices. If the demand goes too high, the cost must go up. Otherwise, no one benefits. I don’t see any benefit in waiting for a surgeon for years, when there’s in many times equally or even more talented surgeons available for a higher price. Hell, in all those years you wait for one surgeon you could’ve paid off your surgery and been living with more hair. 
 

Anyway that’s my 0.2 cents. 

Of course it is high when virtually no one else in Europe charges such a price. Doesn't make much sense to use US as the basis for comparison. 

You wouldn't have to wait years to get a date with surgeons like Pekiner, Freitas or Mwamba and they are by no means a compromise. 

[Melvin- Admin]

17 minutes ago, Marlo said:

Of course it is high when virtually no one else in Europe charges such a price. Doesn't make much sense to use US as the basis for comparison. 

You wouldn't have to wait years to get a date with surgeons like Pekiner, Freitas or Mwamba and they are by no means a compromise. 

The 7 per graft is only for repair cases, which is often more expensive at many top clinics. I know some clinics in Europe charging more for repairs. There’s no way Dr. Pekiner is comparable to Dr. Bisanga, not even close IMO. Dr. Mwamba is comparable and almost the same price for a regular non-repair case. Also, there is only one market, the hair transplant market. There are different sectors for different quality of clinics. Location doesn’t mean anything. People travel all the time to get a procedure, so locations don’t really matter. 

[jjsrader]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

The 7 per graft is only for repair cases, which is often more expensive at many top clinics. I know some clinics in Europe charging more for repairs. There’s no way Dr. Pekiner is comparable to Dr. Bisanga, not even close IMO. Dr. Mwamba is comparable and almost the same price for a regular non-repair case. Also, there is only one market, the hair transplant market. There are different sectors for different quality of clinics. Location doesn’t mean anything. People travel all the time to get a procedure, so locations don’t really matter. 

Dr. Bisanga costs more because he believes his skillset & experience warrants the extra $$.  I don't necessarily disagree either.

I will share my experience just to be transparent here 'cause that's the entire purpose of this website  (just my .02 cents)>

I went to a consult w/Dr. Bisanga in late August '22. 

Granted, I have had 6 strips (100, 120 w/Dr. Leavitt in Dec. '90/Jan '91), (400 & 700 w/Dr. Pomerantz in '93 & '94), (2250 w/Dr. Feller in '04) & (5000 {4500 strip & 500 FUE}) w/Dr. Soni in '17.

So, I am NOT technically a repair patient, I have been on Avodart since 2002 & Propecia since '98 before that.  Been on oral minox since I think '19 (before that Rogaine since mid 90's).  My donor is GOOD. 

His representative (Hi Ian) quoted me 7.00 EURO in Belgium (yes, I can get the VAT tax rebated AFTER the surgery w/their consultant affiliate U.K service, nice extra 'touch' btw).

Dr. Soni (MEDISPA) left me w/a WIDE scar on my last (greed) 4.5 strip in '17 - so, I'm torn currently.  I have a consult w/Dr. Shapiro next month & I might consult w/Dr. Wong about cutting out the strip & then moving forward.

I don't know why I am rambling.  Oh, yes I do.  I don't think I am a repair patient.  Just a patient w/6 strip scars.  My donor is very healthy (I am a NW5+ without hair restoration) - I get it w/Dr.'s charging me MORE for just a 1.5K to 1.75K 'cherry-pick' my donor - but why should I pay MORE for a simple extra 30 minutes of planning?

You tell me?  I'll hang up & wait.

p.s. Dr. Bisanga is AWESOME & I respect his senior-level professional fee structure.  I don't negotiate though - so I felt as though his rep (hola again Ian, btw) should have offered me $5.00 Euro per graft -but again, I am non-confrontational.

This is NOT a critique of Dr. Bisanga's excellent skill either.  I am having a difficult time though paying big money for (in my mind) huge $$$'s for the 1.25K or 1.5K grafts directly behind my hairline at a less expensive rate & then having a top-world-class surgeon such as Dr. Bisanga finish me off in the frontal 'dense-pack' hairline band a final 750-1000 grafts.

I'm 56 years old & do NOT want to use ANY beard hair until I am older.

Edited February 15, 2023 by jjsrader
editing & being 100% transparent

[Melvin- Admin]

28 minutes ago, jjsrader said:

Dr. Bisanga costs more because he believes his skillset & experience warrants the extra $$.  I don't necessarily disagree either.

I will share my experience just to be transparent here 'cause that's the entire purpose of this website  (just my .02 cents)>

I went to a consult w/Dr. Bisanga in late August '22. 

Granted, I have had 6 strips (100, 120 w/Dr. Leavitt in Dec. '90/Jan '91), (400 & 700 w/Dr. Pomerantz in '93 & '94), (2250 w/Dr. Feller in '04) & (5000 {4500 strip & 500 FUE}) w/Dr. Soni in '17.

So, I am NOT technically a repair patient, I have been on Avodart since 2002 & Propecia since '98 before that.  Been on oral minox since I think '19 (before that Rogaine since mid 90's).  My donor is GOOD. 

His representative (Hi Ian) quoted me 7.00 EURO in Belgium (yes, I can get the VAT tax rebated AFTER the surgery w/their consultant affiliate U.K service, nice extra 'touch' btw).

Dr. Soni (MEDISPA) left me w/a WIDE scar on my last (greed) 4.5 strip in '17 - so, I'm torn currently.  I have a consult w/Dr. Shapiro next month & I might consult w/Dr. Wong about cutting out the strip & then moving forward.

I don't know why I am rambling.  Oh, yes I do.  I don't think I am a repair patient.  Just a patient w/6 strip scars.  My donor is very healthy (I am a NW5+ without hair restoration) - I get it w/Dr.'s charging me MORE for just a 1.5K to 1.75K 'cherry-pick' my donor - but why should I pay MORE for a simple extra 30 minutes of planning?

You tell me?  I'll hang up & wait.

p.s. Dr. Bisanga is AWESOME & I respect his senior-level professional fee structure.  I don't negotiate though - so I felt as though if his rep (hola  Ian, btw) should have offered me $5.00 Euro per graft -but again, I am non-confrontational.

This is NOT a critique of Dr. Bisanga's excellent skill either.  I am having a difficult time though paying big money for (in my mind) huge $$$'s for the 1.25K or 1.5K grafts directly behind my hairline at a less expensive rate & then having a top-world-class surgeon such as Dr. Bisanga finish me off in the frontal 'dense-pack' hairline band a final 750-1000 grafts.

I'm 56 years old & do NOT want to use ANY beard hair until I am older.

 Wide strip scar, multiple HTs, some from the 90s when techniques weren’t very good and surgeons used chunky grafts. Based on this alone your case sounds difficult. Some patients who just need more density claim they’re repair patients. While others have had plug surgeries, wide scars, depleted donors and claim they’re not. I think anyone who needs to have something corrected i.e., scarring, pitting, cobblestoning should be considered repairs.