Asymmetrical or Symmetrical hairlines?

[NikosHair]

Lack of symmetry comes up on a regular basis on the forum.

Normally patients are concerned one side is more developed than the other or the doctor's design was 'off' from the start.

I'll put my cards on the table - I believe the closer you can get to symmetry the closer you get to perceived facial attractiveness.

The clinics that fob off patients with the line asymmetry is natural. The statement is true. So are crooked noses, protruding ears, wonky teeth etc etc. all naturally occurring features but also undesirable.

Should we be so accepting of sub-optimal work?

Thoughts?

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by NikosHair
poll edded

[NikosHair]

Here a member who analysed their first procedure. 

In the 2nd picture I have mirrored one half of their hairline to create perfect symmetry.

You can read @Sitries1 2nd HT HERE!

Edited January 4, 2023 by NikosHair

[LaserCaps]

Congratulations! But wait.

Symmetry in this industry is typically not a good thing. Being asymmetric adds naturalness to the result.  Symmetry is left for systems.  You truly do not want this to look like a wig. Or do you?

There are a couple of things I notice from these photos.  One, your hair is ticking right up.  Is this just the way you style the hair? Or is it that the hair is angled that way? When they did the procedure, did they shave your whole head?

Lastly, we can see right through and see scalp behind the hairline.  How far back are you thinning.  Did you ever ID on the Norwood scale?  Important to be both age and pattern appropriate.

Are you doing anything to help you with retention of the native hair?

[NikosHair]

@LaserCaps Just for clarity. The photo is a member (not me) who has had a great result from their 1st HT but in the quest for perfection.

• They had a friend who is a CAD expert map their hairline.
• The member has now returned for further improvements (although many could only dream of achieving the results from his 1st HT).
• The photo was specifically taken with the hair bushed up and pulled back to highlighting improvements that could be made in density and symmetry. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Perfect symmetry is not natural. If you split a persons face in half, you will see some asymmetry, even in the best looking people. I think subtle asymmetry is best. 
 

Jake Gylenhaal the epitome of great male hairlines, has some asymmetry. 

[Phillyman1996]

25 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Perfect symmetry is not natural. If you split a persons face in half, you will see some asymmetry, even in the best looking people. I think subtle asymmetry is best. 
 

Jake Gylenhaal the epitome of great male hairlines, has some asymmetry. 

Some would argue that zayn malik is epitomie of great male hairlines lol

[NikosHair]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I think subtle asymmetry is best

Subtle is the keyword.

No hairline will ever be 100% symmetrical. Even in the example above where Sitries1 and his doctor have aimed for symmetry, there will still be variation.

Not all the FU's will grow, there will be variation in color and angle etc.

The takeaway for me is...  aim for symmetry and you will get subtle asymmetry.

Aim for asymmetry and you allow the clinics to claim 'we planned it that way', even if you are not happy with the result.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by NikosHair

[Gatsby]

If a person's hairline/face was symmetrical it would stand out as 'something is not right' to the viewer. It's because it doesn't look natural. Every successful hair transplant has one thing in common. It will look 'natural.'

[NikosHair]

@Gatsby@Melvin- Moderator from all your years of observing HT results. Can you show any examples of a hairline that was too symmetrical?

I will caveat that by saying, the examples should not just be a poor hairline by our normal standards, eg. doubles and triples in the hairline, too low, wrongly angled hairs etc etc

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Phillyman1996 said:

Some would argue that zayn malik is epitomie of great male hairlines lol

I would disagree. I think having a forehead that’s proportional looks better than having a tiny forehead. Regardless, even he has asymmetry. 

[NARMAK]

My personal opinion on this is that the closer you can get to symmetry, the better. Almost all top models and beautiful people are more symmetrical. That's not even up for debate. 

Now, there are some minor nuances in us as humans but personally i would say reaching to a more symmetrical hairline doesn't mean if its sprinkled in with the right micro and macro irregularities to look natural that it won't look good. I personally wish i had addressed my temple point design to be more symmetrical for example. If i go for a second procedure, i will get that addressed 100%.

Facial harmony is the most important thing when it comes to the way a person looks and we are formed by the sum of all our parts to determine that. That's why even the best looking people that lag behind in one or a couple of areas still can excel. 

[JP28]

12 hours ago, NikosHair said:

Lack of symmetry comes up on a regular basis on the forum.

Normally patients are concerned one side is more developed than the other or the doctor's design was 'off' from the start.

I'll put my cards on the table - I believe the closer you can get to symmetry the closer you get to perceived facial attractiveness.

The clinics that fob off patients with the line asymmetry is natural. The statement is true. So are crooked noses, protruding ears, wonky teeth etc etc. all naturally occurring features but also undesirable.

Should we be so accepting of sub-optimal work?

Thoughts?

 

Totally agree with you! 

[Melvin- Admin]

Perfect symmetry being the most attractive is a fallacy. The nuances in a person’s features is what makes people attractive in my opinion. Even when they do perfect symmetry on attractive people their normal facial balance, which is asymmetrical looks the most attractive. That’s why facial plastic surgery that tries to look perfect always looks odd and artificial. Definitely not attractive in my book. 
 

A perfect example is Madonna, she was very attractive, she had some asymmetry, not a lot but some. Now she’s perfectly symmetrical, but she looks like a doll. That’s not an attractive look, and I think most would agree. This is why you never chase perfection with surgery. Surgery should enhance your features, not perfect.

 

Hairlines were never meant to look like someone drew it with a ruler. It’s natural to have asymmetry, and what is found in nature is always best. Hair is unlike anything else, the teeth analogy doesn’t make sense. Teeth are straightforward, even if you can tell they’re veneer’s it’s not as taboo as hair.

Social stigma is nowhere near as bad with teeth as it is with hair. Insurance companies PAY for braces and even invisalign, when will you ever see an insurance company pay for hair transplants? The answer is never. Unless it’s for gender reassignment.

Here’s an example of a symmetrical hairline that looks artificial. Definitely not natural. Because it’s too straight and symmetrical the eyes will always perceive it as artificial. 


 

Hairlines need to have some asymmetry to look natural. It’s pure nonsense to suggest otherwise. Here’s an example of what I consider to be a perfect transplanted hairline. The subtle asymmetry, the shape, everything about this hairline looks natural. This is as good as it gets with surgery. When you compare the two, the difference is astounding.

[NARMAK]

46 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Perfect symmetry being the most attractive is a fallacy. The nuances in a person’s features is what makes people attractive in my opinion. Even when they do perfect symmetry on attractive people their normal facial balance, which is asymmetrical looks the most attractive. That’s why facial plastic surgery that tries to look perfect always looks odd and artificial. Definitely not attractive in my book. 
 

A perfect example is Madonna, she was very attractive, she had some asymmetry, not a lot but some. Now she’s perfectly symmetrical, but she looks like a doll. That’s not an attractive look, and I think most would agree. This is why you never chase perfection with surgery. Surgery should enhance your features, not perfect.

 

Hairlines were never meant to look like someone drew it with a ruler. It’s natural to have asymmetry, and what is found in nature is always best. Hair is unlike anything else, the teeth analogy doesn’t make sense. Teeth are straightforward, even if you can tell they’re veneer’s it’s not as taboo as hair.

Social stigma is nowhere near as bad with teeth as it is with hair. Insurance companies PAY for braces and even invisalign, when will you ever see an insurance company pay for hair transplants? The answer is never. Unless it’s for gender reassignment.

Here’s an example of a symmetrical hairline that looks artificial. Definitely not natural. Because it’s too straight and symmetrical the eyes will always perceive it as artificial. 


 

Hairlines need to have some asymmetry to look natural. It’s pure nonsense to suggest otherwise. Here’s an example of what I consider to be a perfect transplanted hairline. The subtle asymmetry, the shape, everything about this hairline looks natural. This is as good as it gets with surgery. When you compare the two, the difference is astounding.

I don't think you can take a regular person with asymmetry and mirror the left and right sided of their faces and basically call that a "Perfect" version of symmetry. 

What a lot of good looking people usually have in common as i said is facial features that are proportional and work in harmony. That's why when you take that person like in your example and simply mirror the two sides, it doesn't give sometimes a natural looking result and the "regular" version appears better. 

That's why usually Photoshop is used for retouching because it aims to balance out the persons symmetry and keep things proportional. 

Regarding the hairline, i would argue that the one you say is too symmetrical, that it's bigger issues are that the temple points are significantly weaker and that's why it makes the frontal hairline stand out even more and a bit artificial looking. 

That said, these things are all on a spectrum and imo it's also about what you sometimes prefer. 

[Sitries1]

56 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Perfect symmetry being the most attractive is a fallacy. The nuances in a person’s features is what makes people attractive in my opinion. Even when they do perfect symmetry on attractive people their normal facial balance, which is asymmetrical looks the most attractive. That’s why facial plastic surgery that tries to look perfect always looks odd and artificial. Definitely not attractive in my book. 
 

A perfect example is Madonna, she was very attractive, she had some asymmetry, not a lot but some. Now she’s perfectly symmetrical, but she looks like a doll. That’s not an attractive look, and I think most would agree. This is why you never chase perfection with surgery. Surgery should enhance your features, not perfect.

 

Hairlines were never meant to look like someone drew it with a ruler. It’s natural to have asymmetry, and what is found in nature is always best. Hair is unlike anything else, the teeth analogy doesn’t make sense. Teeth are straightforward, even if you can tell they’re veneer’s it’s not as taboo as hair.

Social stigma is nowhere near as bad with teeth as it is with hair. Insurance companies PAY for braces and even invisalign, when will you ever see an insurance company pay for hair transplants? The answer is never. Unless it’s for gender reassignment.

Here’s an example of a symmetrical hairline that looks artificial. Definitely not natural. Because it’s too straight and symmetrical the eyes will always perceive it as artificial. 


 

Hairlines need to have some asymmetry to look natural. It’s pure nonsense to suggest otherwise. Here’s an example of what I consider to be a perfect transplanted hairline. The subtle asymmetry, the shape, everything about this hairline looks natural. This is as good as it gets with surgery. When you compare the two, the difference is astounding.

I would say the 1st example you shared of the guys hairline is just  too straight and he's had no temporal work which makes the straight hairline look unatural. 

The bottom example is pretty symetrical if you ask me......

Its actually very hard to achieve perfect symmetry, even if your aiming for it. 

Dr Ferreira warned me prior to surgery that perfect symetry was not only difficult to achieve due to facial features not being symetrical but also warned me that trying to achieve perfect symetry was not always a 'better' result.  It was my decision however to proceed with the adjustments and he was happy to carry out my wishes.  I'm 99.9% sure my result will be perfectly natural regardless.  

I will continue to update my thread on a regular basis and hopefully the final result will settle the debate. 

[Melvin- Admin]

20 minutes ago, Sitries1 said:

I would say the 1st example you shared of the guys hairline is just  too straight and he's had no temporal work which makes the straight hairline look unatural. 

The bottom example is pretty symetrical if you ask me......

Its actually very hard to achieve perfect symmetry, even if your aiming for it. 

Dr Ferreira warned me prior to surgery that perfect symetry was not only difficult to achieve due to facial features not being symetrical but also warned me that trying to achieve perfect symetry was not always a 'better' result.  It was my decision however to proceed with the adjustments and he was happy to carry out my wishes.  I'm 99.9% sure my result will be perfectly natural regardless.  

I will continue to update my thread on a regular basis and hopefully the final result will settle the debate. 

The asymmetry is very subtle, but it’s there. Take a closer look, in nature, that’s how hairlines appear. 

 

Even someone like Brad Pitt has asymmetry.

[NikosHair]

40 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

What a lot of good looking people usually have in common as i said is facial features that are proportional and work in harmony.

This is spot on. I would encapsulate this in the word 'balance'.

When one side looks unbalanced, compared to the other, it creates 'noise' (unwanted information).

While plastic surgery, filler faced, botox'ed disasters are entertaining, it doesn't really progress the conversation.

I think we should focus on hairlines as this is the focus of the forum.

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Hairlines were never meant to look like someone drew it with a ruler

This a strawman argument, no one has advocated this. Quite the opposite.

As for the example at the end. I agree, it looks great, balanced and symmetrical.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by NikosHair

[Sitries1]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

The asymmetry is very subtle, but it’s there. Take a closer look, in nature, that’s how hairlines appear. 

 

Even someone like Brad Pitt has asymmetry.

Agreed, there are minor assymetry's but like NikosHair said, even if you aim for perfect symmetry, you are unlikely to achieve it but you may get close which is likely an ideal result. 

[Doron Harati]

 

symmetric hairlines are done usually by hair mills, it will create unnatural hairlines and waste more grafts than really needed.

 

Asymmetric hairlines have incisions with zigzags which demand artistic skill by highly experienced surgeon.

 

From my experience, lowest natural hair are around 5.0-5.5 cm from the eyebrows, I saw some very rare cases of Asians with 4.5cm height.

 

Most cases it's NOT reccomend to lower the original height of the hairline, in some some special occasions you can lower it around 0.5-0.7 cm.

 

 

 

 

[NikosHair]

Same photo but with a consistent reference point.

Edited January 5, 2023 by NikosHair

[NikosHair]

@Sitries1 You do realise you're the official HRN Lab Rat - no pressure😁

[Sitries1]

2 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

@Sitries1 You do realise you're the official HRN Lab Rat - no pressure😁

🤣🤣🤣

The signs are good so far! I'm loving the new hairline - Frames my face perfectly now. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, NikosHair said:

Same photo but with a consistent reference point.

You can clearly see the asymmetry, the left side is higher than the right. 

[NikosHair]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

You can clearly see the asymmetry, the left side is higher than the right. 

I'm comfortable with your assessment that the left side looks recessed. There are mitigating factors like the like the light washing out the left (the impact of light is something you have pointed out in other posts). I'm happy to agree with your benchmark.

How do we achieve subtle asymmetry, as shown in your example?

How do we communicate to the doctor that is our expectation?

• The people in the pro-symmetry camp, say aim for symmetry and expect subtle asymmetry .
• Set high expectation and don't accept anything less.
• Don't accept the line 'asymmetry is natural' - it means nothing in a quantitive/qualitive sense.
• He/She may have techs waiting and/or other patients to attend to but you once accept those drawn lines, that's what you're getting.

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by NikosHair

[Melvin- Admin]

39 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

I'm comfortable with your assessment that the left side looks recessed. There are mitigating factors like the like the light washing out the left (the impact of light is something you have pointed out in other posts). I'm happy to agree with your benchmark.

How do we achieve subtle asymmetry, as shown in your example?

How do we communicate to the doctor that is our expectation?

• The people in the pro-symmetry camp, say aim for symmetry and expect subtle asymmetry .
• Set high expectation and don't accept anything less.
• Don't accept the line 'asymmetry is natural' - it means nothing in a quantitive/qualitive sense.
• He/She may have techs waiting and/or other patients to attend to but you once accept those drawn lines, that's what you're getting.

 

A good surgeon understands that hairlines must be proportional to your face. It must flow with your proportions, no one’s face is perfectly symmetrical. Thus, the hairline cannot be perfectly symmetrical. There are macro and micro-irregularities that make a hairline appear natural, it’s crucial. 

To use Brad Pitt as an example, you can see his hairline has nuances, areas that go up and down, it’s not a straight symmetrical line, the shape is not linear. Hairlines are never straight or linear. 

 

Conversely, here’s a straight linear hair transplant. Yes, the temple points do add to the artificial appearance, but the lack of macro and micro irregularities makes it look like a straight wall of hair. It doesn’t look natural, and is never what patients or surgeons should strive for.