THE TRUTH Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, didu911 said: Thank you 🙂 I am on 6mg Estrofem, but I am a little pissed. My body doesn't procude much skin oil anymore, so my hair is always like fresh out of the shower, having thin hair doesn't help Bro how much did Sever charge per graft for your FUT ? 3.45€ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Legal action and refund said: Bro how much did Sever charge per graft for your FUT ? 3.45€ ? I really don't know anymore, I think I paid around 14k-15k bucks, so must be Under 2.9€ for 5227 Grafts. We came to an discount as 4500 was planned and 5200 was yield. But I am not a huge Fan on Hattingen Hair anymore.... Edited July 17, 2022 by didu911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE TRUTH Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, didu911 said: I really don't know anymore, I think I paid around 14k-15k bucks, so must be Under 2.9€ for 5227 Grafts. We came to an discount as 4500 was planned and 5200 was yield. But I am not a huge Fan on Hattingen Hair anymore.... That's a fair price. yeah I totally understand bruh. That shockloss was really unfortunate... I guess Dr. Sever took the strip, performed the incisions and then nurses did the implantation ? Also what did Cengiz & Bekir say 'bout the scar ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Legal action and refund said: That's a fair price. yeah I totally understand bruh. That shockloss was really unfortunate... I guess Dr. Sever took the strip, performed the incisions and then nurses did the implantation ? Also what did Cengiz & Bekir say 'bout the scar ? Strip: Dr.Sever and a cooperative Doctor (Not Laura) Incisions: Laura Implantation: Nurses HLC recommended me to get SMP in the scar or try with beard hair, but due to color difference, they don't recommend it. I am actually in contact with Samuel Troonen for SMP, and also add density all over the head. Still deciding about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 27 minutes ago, Mike10 said: but you can't confirm. how would that work? you look of it is one of listed sides, you drop the drug and if the issue resolve itself, you pretty much have certainty No you don't have certainty. Just because things are observed together doesn't mean one caused the other. Making symptoms appear and disappear doesn't mean they were actually being caused by a drug. There's a reason "correlation doesn't equal causation" is such an often-quoted and true saying. We pay and train doctors so well because that's a garbage way to conduct medical care. And doctors work by confirming you are baseline healthy with medical instrumentation/bloodwork/lifestyle survey/mental health evaluations and monitoring. The placebo and nocebo effects need to be ruled out as much as possible. There are drugs specifically designed to treat conditions, and work, but don't get approved because they don't work as well statistically as giving people sugar pills or telling them to do random superstitious acts. And the same goes for generating side effect symptoms. Just making people aware of the potential for side effects will cause some of them to create mental mechanisms that trigger their bodies to produce symptoms similar to the side effects. If you value your hair in the long term, work with your doctors to reach conclusions about your health and the safety for you specifically to take certain medications. Don't just rely on stories from the internet or your own amateur attempts at playing doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ciaus said: No you don't have certainty. Just because things are observed together doesn't mean one caused the other. Making symptoms appear and disappear doesn't mean they were actually being caused by a drug. There's a reason "correlation doesn't equal causation" is such an often-quoted and true saying. We pay and train doctors so well because that's a garbage way to conduct medical care. And doctors work by confirming you are baseline healthy with medical instrumentation/bloodwork/lifestyle survey/mental health evaluations and monitoring. The placebo and nocebo effects need to be ruled out as much as possible. There are drugs specifically designed to treat conditions, and work, but don't get approved because they don't work as well statistically as giving people sugar pills or telling them to do random superstitious acts. And the same goes for generating side effect symptoms. Just making people aware of the potential for side effects will cause some of them to create mental mechanisms that trigger their bodies to produce symptoms similar to the side effects. If you value your hair in the long term, work with your doctors to reach conclusions about your health and the safety for you specifically to take certain medications. Don't just rely on stories from the internet or your own amateur attempts at playing doctor. Your post is fair, I just can share my story. I see the correlation nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE TRUTH Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, didu911 said: Strip: Dr.Sever and a cooperative Doctor (Not Laura) Incisions: Laura Implantation: Nurses HLC recommended me to get SMP in the scar or try with beard hair, but due to color difference, they don't recommend it. I am actually in contact with Samuel Troonen for SMP, and also add density all over the head. Still deciding about it.... Yeah SMP is a great option ! Troonen does good work. Will you go back to Bekir for a 3rd round to fill in the midscalp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, didu911 said: Your post is fair, I just can share my story. I see the correlation nothing else. No one is saying you can't share it, too many guys do just blurt out their stories without doing any medical consultations to confirm whether drugs were actually causing their symptoms. And it creates unnecessary fear and anxiety that may cause some guys to not take a drug that would work great for them. Or cause them enough anxiety to generate nocebo side effects and stop taking the drug for no real reason. You know what I'm saying is right. And you said yourself that anyone with a scary symptom like you are experiencing in your chest should go see a doctor immediately. But then you don't apply that advice to yourself, waiting to see if it goes away. You are not thinking clearly, and contrary to being helpful, you're actually contributing to the internet being a place that causes more harm than good. Edited July 17, 2022 by ciaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mike10 Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, ciaus said: No you don't have certainty. Just because things are observed together doesn't mean one caused the other. Making symptoms appear and disappear doesn't mean they were actually being caused by a drug. There's a reason "correlation doesn't equal causation" is such an often-quoted and true saying. We pay and train doctors so well because that's a garbage way to conduct medical care. And doctors work by confirming you are baseline healthy with medical instrumentation/bloodwork/lifestyle survey/mental health evaluations and monitoring. The placebo and nocebo effects need to be ruled out as much as possible. There are drugs specifically designed to treat conditions, and work, but don't get approved because they don't work as well statistically as giving people sugar pills or telling them to do random superstitious acts. And the same goes for generating side effect symptoms. Just making people aware of the potential for side effects will cause some of them to create mental mechanisms that trigger their bodies to produce symptoms similar to the side effects. If you value your hair in the long term, work with your doctors to reach conclusions about your health and the safety for you specifically to take certain medications. Don't just rely on stories from the internet or your own amateur attempts at playing doctor. This hardly makes any sense to me. Again how will the Dr be able to provide proof? Any serious Dr will tell the patient to drop the drug and if the sides vansish that is it. You tell me what alternative approach there is. You talk about Placebo seems msiplaced when the guy displays a bloated face. are serious telling that is caused by mental mechanisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Legal action and refund said: Yeah SMP is a great option ! Troonen does good work. Will you go back to Bekir for a 3rd round to fill in the midscalp ? Well, it's so hard for me to see the reality these days. My result is looking different in every mirror and light condition, going from a full head of hair to a guy with some strand of hair on the bold head. This is driving me f*ckin crazy! Ordered a new Iphone to make some vids in daylight and see what the result currently looks like, or like other people see me. If it looks like in the image, I think I should be good with a SMP and eventually a donor repair.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, Mike10 said: This hardly makes any sense to me. Again how will the Dr be able to provide proof? Any serious Dr will tell the patient to drop the drug and if the sides vansish that is it. You tell me what alternative approach there is. You talk about Placebo seems msiplaced when the guy displays a bloated face. are serious telling that is caused by mental mechanisms. Dude, go to medical school and it will make more sense. Or just start recommending in your 'opinions' that its the drug's fault that they also go see someone that has gone to medical school to help confirm the diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, ciaus said: No one is saying you can't share it, too many guys do just blurt out their stories without doing any medical consultations to confirm whether drugs were actually causing their symptoms. And it creates unnecessary fear and anxiety that may cause some guys to not take a drug that would work great for them. Or cause them enough anxiety to generate nocebo side effects and stop taking the drug for no real reason. You know what I'm saying is right. And you said yourself that anyone with a scary symptom like you are experiencing in your chest should go see a doctor immediately. But then you don't apply that advice to yourself, waiting to see if it goes away. You are not thinking clearly, and contrary to being helpful, you're actually contributing to the internet being a place that causes more harm than good. I hate doctors and especially ERs with a passion, I even didn't go to a doc with serious burn injuries for days. This is something on me and what I decide. You seem a little upset to me, for me there are clear signs between the intake of oral minox and the symptoms. That's why I drop the drug and share some 'warning'. Take it or leave it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mike10 Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ciaus said: Dude, go to medical school and it will make more sense. Or just start recommending in your 'opinions' that its the drug's fault that they also go see someone that has gone to medical school to help confirm the diagnosis. Dude, I am just using common sense. Edited July 17, 2022 by Mike10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE TRUTH Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, didu911 said: Well, it's so hard for me to see the reality these days. My result is looking different in every mirror and light condition, going from a full head of hair to a guy with some strand of hair on the bold head. This is driving me f*ckin crazy! Ordered a new Iphone to make some vids in daylight and see what the result currently looks like, or like other people see me. If it looks like in the image, I think I should be good with a SMP and eventually a donor repair.... On this picture it looks excellent. Looks like full head of hair. I was a bit skeptical about him at first singe he is the new guy but I gotta say he did an outstanding job and gave you full coverage on the crown. Muresanu also did a good job on the frontal third. But yeah I agree transplants can be tricky bro. They are just 50% native density that's why they sometimes look thin under harsh lighting... What was the density per cm2 specifically during first surgery and during second ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Legal action and refund said: On this picture it looks excellent. Looks like full head of hair. I was a bit skeptical about him at first singe he is the new guy but I gotta say he did an outstanding job and gave you full coverage on the crown. Muresanu also did a good job on the frontal third. But yeah I agree transplants can be tricky bro. They are just 50% native density that's why they sometimes look thin under harsh lighting... What was the density per cm2 specifically during first surgery and during second ? Dr Muresanu didn't actually shared the Grafts/cm² count with me. And it's hard to guess, as Dr.Mursanu is not only implanting in the areas of loss but even in those which could fall out later (which I personally see as a downside). HLC told me that the Hairline was like 30 grafts/cm² and that they are somewhat of miniturized, as the follicles were thinner as in the donor.... They added 30grafts/cm² in the front and also in the crown. I think the biggsest problem in my case is the ultra fine hair. Edited July 17, 2022 by didu911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, didu911 said: I hate doctors and especially ERs with a passion, I even didn't go to a doc with serious burn injuries for days. This is something on me and what I decide. You seem a little upset to me, for me there are clear signs between the intake of oral minox and the symptoms. That's why I drop the drug and share some 'warning'. Take it or leave it I know hair loss can be a difficult condition to deal with, suffering from it myself as I do. Helping others deal with it as well as possible is one of the reasons I keep coming here. So yes, it does bother me when someone uses the forum to give advice they don't follow themselves. Your passionate hatred for hospitals and doctors is interesting, and something others reading your posts here should factor into how much weight they give to your symptoms being caused by minoxidil. You sound like someone ripe for generating placebo /nocebo symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ciaus said: I know hair loss can be a difficult condition to deal with, suffering from it myself as I do. Helping others deal with it as well as possible is one of the reasons I keep coming here. So yes, it does bother me when someone uses the forum to give advice they don't follow themselves. Your passionate hatred for hospitals and doctors is interesting, and something others reading your posts here should factor into how much weight they give to your symptoms being caused by minoxidil. You sound like someone ripe for generating placebo /nocebo symptoms. Well, a placebo/nocebo swollen face is something new for me, can you elaborate? If you rely to my testicular pain observations with fin, I think they are real. I am taking much stronger meds than FIN like CPA(Androcur) and Estrofem, which brings my T down to zero and I am not complaining about any sides. Edited July 17, 2022 by didu911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mike10 Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, ciaus said: Dude, go to medical school and it will make more sense. Or just start recommending in your 'opinions' that its the drug's fault that they also go see someone that has gone to medical school to help confirm the diagnosis. Again the patient comes with a bloated face and chest pain complains to the Dr. You tell me how the Dr is going to confirm the diagnosis and provide proof like yoi said? I have asked you this 4 times now!!!! Yet you keep evading.It seems to me that you just do not know what you'tre talking about. What actually happens, is that the Dr will ask whether the patient is on any medication. He will then see if the symtpoms match the medication which is the case here. He will then conclude that the medication could be to blame and recommend the patient to drop the medication. Edited July 17, 2022 by Mike10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Mike10 said: Again the patient comes with a bloated face and chest pain complains to the Dr. You tell me how the Dr is going to confirm the diagnosis and provide proof like yoi said? I have asked you this 4 times now!!!! Yet you keep evading.It seems to me that you just do not know what you'tre talking about. What actually happens, is that the Dr will ask whether the patient is on any medication. He will then see if the symtpoms match the medication which is the case here. He will then conclude that the medication could be to blame and recommend the patient to drop the medication. Hey Dr Mike10, not being an actual doctor, just like you are not an actual doctor, keeps me from speaking on behalf of the real doctors. Unlike you. Come on back after medical school, and the first couple of brave patients you manage to secure, and you won't have to ask that a 5th time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 9 hours ago, didu911 said: You guys should be careful, this is me after 2 weeks of 5mg oral Minoxidil. I woke up today with a completely swollen face and also burning sensations around my hearth. Will eventually go to the ER, if it is still there in the evening. Thank you very much for posting this, I do think it's important that people understand the risks of taking oral min. That isn't to say everyone suffers like this from it either, but your input is very much appreciated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member didu911 Posted July 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, GoliGoliGoli said: Thank you very much for posting this, I do think it's important that people understand the risks of taking oral min. That isn't to say everyone suffers like this from it either, but your input is very much appreciated Thank you 🙏 I think people get more distracted than it helps… The swelling in the face has now subsided, unfortunately I have swelling in my legs and feet. Just went on the scale, I put on 4kgs more on weight in the last 3 days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ciaus said: Hey Dr Mike10, not being an actual doctor, just like you are not an actual doctor, keeps me from speaking on behalf of the real doctors. Unlike you. Come on back after medical school, and the first couple of brave patients you manage to secure, and you won't have to ask that a 5th time. I'm sorry mate, but you sound unhinged. Swelling/water retention is a known side effect of min. I understand this is a personal topic and yes the placebo/nocebo thing is real, but you don't always need a Dr's diagnosis to explain when the correlation between your side effects and the known side effects of the drug you're taking are so similar. What do you think will happen if he goes to a doctor, that they're going to have a team studying his case 24/7 doing in-depth tests looking at what level of min has gone systemic in his blood system? That's not how medicine works, not in the US and not in Europe/Canada. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, didu911 said: Just went on the scale, I put on 4kgs more on weight in the last 3 days. Do you weigh in at the same time in the mornings? I know 5lb (2.5kg) fluctuations aren't rare, but 4kgs is definitely a pretty large fluctuation for 3 days I would think. The before and after pics are the most startling though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ciaus Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said: I'm sorry mate, but you sound unhinged. Swelling/water retention is a known side effect of min. I understand this is a personal topic and yes the placebo/nocebo thing is real, but you don't always need a Dr's diagnosis to explain when the correlation between your side effects and the known side effects of the drug you're taking are so similar. What do you think will happen if he goes to a doctor, that they're going to have a team studying his case 24/7 doing in-depth tests looking at what level of min has gone systemic in his blood system? That's not how medicine works, not in the US and not in Europe/Canada. Sorry mate, too many personal stories from anonymous amateur people making medical conclusions without consulting doctors at all. Stop the drug immediately, by all means, until further evaluation and consultation under your doctor's advisement. And don't just say everyone should see a doctor immediately when they are experiencing a symptom you are currently, and then not follow that advice yourself. I'll call it out every time I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member HappyMan2021 Posted July 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) Call me old fashioned but I prefer Minoxidil in liquid form and Fin/Dut in oral form. @didu911 I didn't read everything you typed, but it seems you have never even tried liquid Minoxidil? Youre only experience is with the oral version? Go to your nearest retail store and get some good old-fashioned liquid Minoxidil (aka Rogaine, if youve ever heard of it....), before throwing away the book on Minoxidil. There is a reason mainstream/traditional Minox is the most popular And actually...I honestly wouldn't make Minox the hill you die on in the first place. For many people (myself included) Minox did absolutely nothing at all. Edited July 17, 2022 by HappyMan2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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