Post Finasteride Syndrom

[Mike10]

9 hours ago, Euphoria said:

It’s just nonsense, that’s what I think.

No drug is that good that its effects stay forever. Certainly hairloss continues really rapidly when you stop fin, clear indication that nothing is wrong physiologically.

Reproductive system is like 99% totally controlled by mind. What you believe happens down there and so what people believe does happen. 

have a look at this: https://www.pfsfoundation.org/

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mike10

[mr_peanutbutter]

these discussion lead to nowhere

 

i find it interesting though that there is something similar caused by antidepressants called post ssri syndrome which recently got officially recognized 

[mafpe]

the numbers are there, and everyone reacts differently to the meds. this apply not just to finasteride, but almost every other meds that exist. some people have antibiotic meds etc, hence why doctors always ask if they have allergies.

just because you don't have it, doesn't mean that it's fake. and just because you got it, doesn't mean everyone else will also get it. the statistic shows that the chance is small, and to be fair, 90% is a high enough number that many men would risk it. The meds is connected to our hormone, and physical appearance does affect our performance and mindset. our body IS connected to our emotion and or brain, those of you who have bedded with people with 2 different instance of their emotion when they're on their peak, and on their lowest, know that it is different. same thing with interacting with people when horny, or when you're depressed af.

both emotion/mind and substance have effect on our body.

[AndyDouglas]

I've taken finesteride for 11 + years and never had a single side effect. Ever. In fact, my sex drive has only increased over the years.

[Euphoria]

9 hours ago, Mike10 said:

have a look at this: https://www.pfsfoundation.org/

Kevin does a good job explaining this

 

 

[yesplease]

26 minutes ago, AndyDouglas said:

I've taken finesteride for 11 + years and never had a single side effect. Ever. In fact, my sex drive has only increased over the years.

This is great. Very happy for you and it’s important for people reading this forum to hear everyone’s different experiences. 
 

I think we all just need to recognize that one person’s experience does not equate to nor invalidate another’s. 

[Mike10]

6 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Kevin does a good job explaining this

 

 

I am sorry but I do not care what some youtuber who does not even work in the industry has to say. 

 

 

[Mike10]

34 minutes ago, AndyDouglas said:

I've taken finesteride for 11 + years and never had a single side effect. Ever. In fact, my sex drive has only increased over the years.

I am glad you had a good experience. But you are not suggesting that just because you had a good experience, everybody else would have, are not you? 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mike10

[AndyDouglas]

1 minute ago, Mike10 said:

I am glad you had a good experience. But you are not suggesting that just because you had a good experience, everybody else would have, are not you? 

Thank you, I'm glad that my experience has been good too. I think it's very clear in my sentence that I am not suggesting everyone else will have a good/similar experience to mine. I was speaking of my own experience.

[yesplease]

9 hours ago, Euphoria said:

If you’re a physician, you should know the psychological component of sexual performance. In finasteride studies where they administer placebo to some people, the rate of sexual side effects are almost similar ( in this particular study e.g found erectile dysfunction reported in 3.4 to 15.8 percent of patients treated with finasteride 5mg daily versus 1.7 to 6.3 percent treated with placebo ) 

That’s just crazy, these people had ED from sugar pills. Why? Because they expected it and it happened. You won’t see ED as a side effect for people taking amoxicillin placebo for the simple reason they don’t expect to get ED from taking an antibiotic.

If you believe you’re flawed in some way, you will be flawed in some way for as long as you wish to believe it.

Yes, I’m well aware. And I’ve scrutinized all the studies on fin for MPB. Sexual arousal and erectile function are both a complex mixture of physiology and psychology.  Placebo and nocebo effects are both very real phenomena in general. 
 

That said, this does not invalidate the occurrence of all adverse effects. 
 

Additionally, certain side effects such as genital pain and loss of nocturnal erections (morning wood) are largely independent of a possible psychological impact and cannot be adequately explained by the nocebo effect. 
 

Blanketed statements (it’s all nonsense or it works great for everyone) are rarely if ever accurate in medicine. There is a great deal of variability from one person to the next in terms of physiology. 
 

Finally, I will also add that any study that presents data dependent upon patient reporting (eg the patient telling the investigators how their sexual function has been) is invariably influenced by some degree of bias. There is a great deal of shame and embarrassment associated with ED, and the possibility that a significant number of people may not be forthright or are in denial about their ED, diminished libido etc is something to consider.

 

I’m not here to argue and I respect your personal opinion. Just some food for thought. Always good to keep an open mind. I’m assuming that fin has worked well for you and I’m glad to know that. Wish that were the case for me.

 

[RTC]

1 hour ago, Euphoria said:

Kevin does a good job explaining this

 

 

I wouldn't take this guy seriously... full of pseudo-science.

Even down to calling DHT a 'garbage hormone'.. it's only a crucial androgen for male sexual function

[BaldingBogger]

Human biology is extremely complex and unique to the individual.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle.  Way way more than the official data have side effects but they are of varying severity and in many cases people don't even recognise them or just adjust to a new normal. Kind of like your hearing and eye sight going, it goes at a really slow pace and unnoticeable for a long time. 

I wasn't prepared to mess around with my hormonal endocrine system so ditched it after a few months many years ago.  MY loss was pretty isolated so i replaced with transplants and the rest of my hair has remained strong so its been a good call in my case.  But everyone is different and for some i recognise this stuff is holding their appearance of a full head of hair together.

Edited June 1, 2022 by BaldingBogger

[Euphoria]

59 minutes ago, yesplease said:

Yes, I’m well aware. And I’ve scrutinized all the studies on fin for MPB. Sexual arousal and erectile function are both a complex mixture of physiology and psychology.  Placebo and nocebo effects are both very real phenomena in general. 
 

That said, this does not invalidate the occurrence of all adverse effects. 
 

Additionally, certain side effects such as genital pain and loss of nocturnal erections (morning wood) are largely independent of a possible psychological impact and cannot be adequately explained by the nocebo effect. 
 

Blanketed statements (it’s all nonsense or it works great for everyone) are rarely if ever accurate in medicine. There is a great deal of variability from one person to the next in terms of physiology. 
 

Finally, I will also add that any study that presents data dependent upon patient reporting (eg the patient telling the investigators how their sexual function has been) is invariably influenced by some degree of bias. There is a great deal of shame and embarrassment associated with ED, and the possibility that a significant number of people may not be forthright or are in denial about their ED, diminished libido etc is something to consider.

 

I’m not here to argue and I respect your personal opinion. Just some food for thought. Always good to keep an open mind. I’m assuming that fin has worked well for you and I’m glad to know that. Wish that were the case for me.

 

People on placebo experienced permanent side effects. Let me say it again. People on PLACEBO experienced PERSISTANT side effects.  I am sorry this is too damn funny🤣

That says everything there has to be said about this. Never underestimate what you can make your mind do to your body or in this case, not do hehe.

 

 

 

[Euphoria]

12 minutes ago, Aslitarcan sucks said:

I wouldn't take this guy seriously... full of pseudo-science.

Even down to calling DHT a 'garbage hormone'.. it's only a crucial androgen for male sexual function

 

1 hour ago, Mike10 said:

I am sorry but I do not care what some youtuber who does not even work in the industry has to say. 

 

 

Your choice but he's more believable than some random website claiming blocking some percent of an enzyme will affect you for life. If we were to believe this then we should starve and only drink water for life for perfect sexual health because we consume food daily that is anti-DHT. Surprising how that food doesn't give them (persistent) sides but fin does hehe. 

 

[RTC]

5 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

 

Your choice but he's more believable than some random website claiming blocking some percent of an enzyme will affect you for life. If we were to believe this then we should starve and only drink water for life for perfect sexual health because we consume food daily that is anti-DHT. Surprising how that food doesn't give them (persistent) sides but fin does hehe. 

 

You can't compare a highly concentrated drug to natural anti-DHT compounds. It's like comparing nandrolone you get in meat to taking straight up synthetic nandrolone.

[NARMAK]

I'm sure we can all agree, that Finasteride has side affects and that some suffer more severely and are affected by it more persistently even after stopping albeit this group is a very small percentage and it is extremely difficult to know who will be affected. Of those that have persistent side affects, if there's other underlying issues that are addressed, things tend to return to normal after some time however an extremely small minority may continue to persist and more "permanently" in terms of how long it happens to go on for. 

However, i do think it's folly to go raging against FDA approved medication in a biased manner if it's not being supported by the overwhelming clinical data that shows its safety. 

Also, until these new hair loss products pass clinical trial we likely won't see them used but imagine how amazing it would be to have something for people to use as effective or more so than Finasteride alone. Particularly for those that can tolerate the medication, adding something on top that's even more affective against hair loss will be amazing to see how much ground people can recover without hopefully having a huge risk. 

[Axel]

On 5/31/2022 at 2:51 PM, Euphoria said:

It’s just nonsense, that’s what I think.

No drug is that good that its effects stay forever. Certainly hairloss continues really rapidly when you stop fin, clear indication that nothing is wrong physiologically.

Reproductive system is like 99% totally controlled by mind. What you believe happens down there and so what people believe does happen. 

Here's several studies that show a correlation. The science behind all this is always evolving. There are plenty of drugs that cause irreparable damage, look at xanax with tardive dysphoria aka incurable depression. Look at meth and other drugs that cause tardive dyskinesia, uncontrollable tremors and movement. Marijuana with memory. There are many other examples. The effects some drugs have on the brain/nervous system can even be epigenetic. People are so adverse to reading the science out there that details the concerns around finasteride. I think it comes from a place of fear. 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515335566

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(22)01163-8/fulltext#relatedArticles

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988314538445

https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0081/ea0081p448

[Axel]

On 5/31/2022 at 2:51 PM, Euphoria said:

  

Edit: Accidental double post

Edited June 2, 2022 by Axel

[Mike10]

14 hours ago, Aslitarcan sucks said:

I wouldn't take this guy seriously... full of pseudo-science.

Even down to calling DHT a 'garbage hormone'.. it's only a crucial androgen for male sexual function

I would agree, he is just some weirdo on youtube

[RTC]

4 hours ago, Axel said:

Here's several studies that show a correlation. The science behind all this is always evolving. There are plenty of drugs that cause irreparable damage, look at xanax with tardive dysphoria aka incurable depression. Look at meth and other drugs that cause tardive dyskinesia, uncontrollable tremors and movement. Marijuana with memory. There are many other examples. The effects some drugs have on the brain/nervous system can even be epigenetic. People are so adverse to reading the science out there that details the concerns around finasteride. I think it comes from a place of fear. 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515335566

https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(22)01163-8/fulltext#relatedArticles

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1557988314538445

https://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0081/ea0081p448

Very interesting stuff, thank you

[A Fue Good Men]

Finasteride, like any drug, has the potential for side effects. Everyone’s genetic makeup is different meaning finasteride can affect one person totally different than the next. Some people can experience extreme side effects while others, not so much.

 

there’s always a risk in taking medication. Just like there’s always a risk in everyday life. Every time you get in a car there’s a risk of getting into a fatal accident. It’s up to the individual whether or not they want to take that risk.

[Mike10]

What we should not forget is that national health authorities issued wanrnings in relation to Finansterid in Europe and that various law suits are still pending. So the comparison to any other medication may be a bit off. 

Personally the real reason I will not take Propecia is that I know for a fact that I am sensitive to hormonal changes. Some are fine with it and will be able to take it for decades without any sides. But not me. The PFS is something that has to be put into perspective because it only seems to concern a small subset of people.   

Edited June 5, 2022 by Mike10