Lightning is a b*tch - How to know, what reality looks like

[didu911]

So basically, I was a Norwood 5a and spent over 20k USD for Hairtransplants (7800 Grafts) with reputable doctors (Hattingen Hair and HLC).

I made two shots today, one in harsh bath light and the other one indoor with light from the window.

Do you guys have the same expirience? It really drives me nuts....

 

 

[mafpe]

looks normal... it's a transplant, transplanted density is usually around half of thick, healthy hair of normal peeps who dont suffer, unless you do a double pass?

on the bright side, older and people with thinner hair even if not balding have the same case as you. you look great imo for someone with HT. I've seen way more that has worse result here, and they were good work as well.

[NARMAK]

4 hours ago, didu911 said:

So basically, I was a Norwood 5a and spent over 20k USD for Hairtransplants (7800 Grafts) with reputable doctors (Hattingen Hair and HLC).

I made two shots today, one in harsh bath light and the other one indoor with light from the window.

Do you guys have the same expirience? It really drives me nuts....

 

 

This is again just an example of why we need to be realistic in our expectations of what a hair transplant can actually achieve when we use the 50% rule for creating that "illusion of density" which under the right lighting breaks. The way to manage it is perhaps to get hair fibres to "top up" the appearance of more hair. 

However, it's also possible depending on your natural hair colour, calibre and density as well as scalp contrast to see this affect under harsh lighting even with people who don't have hair loss, hair may be greasy etc. 

Personally i wouldn't worry about it overly if you aren't in the harshest lighting all the time with that issue. You definitely went to reputable clinics based on the name and i think the regular lighting looks great. 

[didu911]

Added a before picture, so everybody can see, what I am dealing with 🙂

I know that illusion of density is a thing.

I am just wondering, how you guys deal with the differernt lightning conditions ? Wearing a hat all the time worrying, I look complete bald if the sun shines in a different angle was not the inital plan 🙂 

 

[mafpe]

8 minutes ago, didu911 said:

I am just wondering, how you guys deal with the differernt lightning conditions ? Wearing a hat all the time worrying, I look complete bald if the sun shines in a different angle was not the inital plan 🙂 

usually hair fiber and or SMP, although i'm not sure about SMP color on blond hair...

looking great man, i hope i'll get just as good as a result

[didu911]

4 minutes ago, mafpe said:

usually hair fiber and or SMP, although i'm not sure about SMP color on blond hair...

looking great man, i hope i'll get just as good as a result

Thank you, I hope you will be rewared with the result you are searching for!

SMP is a thing I am thinking of, but as you said, on blond hair.... 

 

I am planning my last hair transplant, with about 1000- 1500 FUEs in the shine trough area + BHT test, after that I will call it a day. 

 

It can really look pretty good! but I get a little traumatized by light conditions

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by didu911

[Melvin- Admin]

You got a fantastic result. Hair transplants are not perfect. 

[StillAlive]

Man, your hair looks awesome. In regular environments, with regular lighting, there's no way in hell someone will take a look at you and say 'Oh, poor baldie' or 'Yeah, that balding dude'. 

C'mon, if you take a close-up shot with flash, even natural NW1's can look thin. Breathe brother, breathe. 

[ciaus]

You've got the blonder hair color working in your favor, reducing the contrast with your skin color. If you had brown or black hair it would be even easier to detect the thinner areas. Maybe go full blown Swedish bikini blonde color and you might be able to reduce the skin/hair contrast some more.

Otherwise a couple dashes of hair fibers each morning should do the trick. You appear younger in the pics, which usually makes anything that appears as pre-mature aging stand out more. Try to take consolation that eventually you'll be considered ahead of the game in terms of hanging on to your hair. And as you continue to mentally mature it will also become easier to not dwell and obsess on things like this.  

 

[SeanT1]

You have a great result man!

Yeah lighting is a enemy of ours, it is what it is I suppose..

Lighting samples;

Edited May 18, 2022 by SeanToman

[asterix0]

@SeanToman were you considering a touch up for the front to add some density?

[TommyLucchese]

There are 2 variables you need to happen at once for your worst fears to be realised: 

1. stand directly under a bright spotlight

2. Be around people that are 12 foot tall and can look down on you like that

Relax my friend, you're looking good. 

[SeanT1]

Just now, asterix0 said:

@SeanToman were you considering a touch up for the front to add some density?

Going the SMP route first to see if that improves things.
If not then definitely a second touch up.

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

Didu,

Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast. Hair transplant surgery is the art of illusion due to the principle of supply and demand.  Regrettably, we typically have a lot more demand (balding/thinning areas requiring transplantation) than we do supply (donor hair available for transplanting).  As a result, we can never achieve “true density“ especially when we have advanced balding.

All that to say, harsh lighting is a bitch, there’s no way around that.  There are some ways we can make our hair look thicker and denser, even under harsh lighting without undergoing subsequent procedures - albeit limited.  For example, growing our hair a little longer and the way we style our hair can make a pretty significant difference in how our hair appears under even harshest lighting.

The good news however, Is that most people don’t see us under the harshest of lighting such as when we’re standing at the bathroom sink.  They typically see us under natural or softer lighting conditions although, if you work in an office or you’re in school you may be seen under slightly harsher lighting such as fluorescent lighting. But even that isn’t nearly as bad as the way bathroom lighting shines down on our scalps from above the sink.

The truth is, there are approximately 100,000 hair follicles all over the scalp, 50,000 which makes up the top which is excellent to a Norwood 5A borderline six.  This is equivalent to just over 22,000 grafts.  So that’s approximately what you would need to make up true density if you are in that baldness class.  They say that one needs to lose approximately 50% of their hair in order to see visual signs of hair loss. Therefore, the “illusion of density“ typically is around 50% for just over 11,000 follicular units.

Based on the above mathematics, I think you can probably understand why at somewhere around 7500 grafts, your hair still up your thin under certain lighting conditions especially when you wear it short.

An advanced and skilled surgeon will not evenly disperse the grafts but instead, densify the areas that are most vital and then gradually fade into some of the less vital areas.  So strategic placement makes a big difference.

Hair transplant surgery isn’t perfect as this topic depicts quite well. However, I’m sure most people who have seen your new head of hair are quite impressed because they don’t see it under the harshest lighting. At the end of the day we are our worst critics and we need to remember that.

Rahal Hair Transplant 

[asterix0]

33 minutes ago, SeanToman said:

Going the SMP route first to see if that improves things.
If not then definitely a second touch up.

SMP I think would help more though for mid-scalp/crown gaps rather than right at the front of the hairline, no?

[SeanT1]

Just now, asterix0 said:

SMP I think would help more though for mid-scalp/crown gaps rather than right at the front of the hairline, no?

Absolutely, but if done right I think you can get away with feathering SMP into the hairline also.  Here are a couple of examples;

[asterix0]

Yes it is a little better, but I would imagine you would only a small number of grafts to add density to your front, probably for 2-2.5k euros cost wise you'd be good to go for like 600-ish grafts.

Edited May 18, 2022 by asterix0

[SeanT1]

Just now, asterix0 said:

Yes it is a little better, but I would imagine you would only a small number of grafts to add density to your front, probably for 2-2.5k euros cost wise you'd be good to go for like 600-ish grafts.

I'll look into it, thanks.

[didu911]

2 hours ago, Rahal Hair Transplant said:

Didu,

Unfortunately, this is the nature of the beast. Hair transplant surgery is the art of illusion due to the principle of supply and demand.  Regrettably, we typically have a lot more demand (balding/thinning areas requiring transplantation) than we do supply (donor hair available for transplanting).  As a result, we can never achieve “true density“ especially when we have advanced balding.

........

Thank you for that insight, I felt, I was always aware of that "illusion of density" thing, knowing I have to keep my hair long and put a little effort in Styling.

In 2020, so one year after my FUT with 5200 Grafts, I was over the moon, unhappy with the hairline but still a massive improvement. For sure it lacks of density but with about 10cm of length things really looked fine.

I just moved into a new appartment, where is no window in the bathroom, like before... Instead there is a neon tube 10cm over my head, mounted to the wall. 

Looking in that mirror now, is no joy, just a feeling of being defeated by the norwood reaper after spending so much time and money into that project. 

 

[Mike10]

I would say this is normal for the higher Norwoods. If one were to progress only to let's say  a Norwood 3, this issue does not exist.  

[THE TRUTH]

I feel you bro. 

Your crown looks solid even under harsh lighting though. 👍

Was your midscalp transplanted during your 2nd surgery ? And if so, how many grafts ? 

[didu911]

28 minutes ago, lack of bludflow said:

I feel you bro. 

Your crown looks solid even under harsh lighting though. 👍

Was your midscalp transplanted during your 2nd surgery ? And if so, how many grafts ? 

Thank you!

First surgery was all over the head, in the second one, crown and hairline were filled up (each with 30 grafts per cm/2). 
I am in contact with hlc for my last transplant focusing on the midscalp. They told me I still have 2500ish Grafts left, hope to get away with less. 

[Marko7t4]

Looking at your pre and post HT picture, this is a great result. Nobody passing you in the street or in a pub, etc, would even think you’d had a HT. 

[didu911]

13 minutes ago, Marko7t4 said:

Looking at your pre and post HT picture, this is a great result. Nobody passing you in the street or in a pub, etc, would even think you’d had a HT. 

🤗Thank you. 
looking at it from two sides:

 I am pretty happy to have a great amount of hair back, put off that hat without feeling bald is a big relief. 
On the other side, nobody chooses to get bald in a extreme young age, being a Norwood 5 with 25years old is really not that common, working for that 20k USD was really hard and I had never money for something I’d like to buy. 
All in all I am still a little traumatised and trying to recover. 

[THE TRUTH]

On 5/18/2022 at 10:04 PM, didu911 said:

🤗Thank you. 
looking at it from two sides:

 I am pretty happy to have a great amount of hair back, put off that hat without feeling bald is a big relief. 
On the other side, nobody chooses to get bald in a extreme young age, being a Norwood 5 with 25years old is really not that common, working for that 20k USD was really hard and I had never money for something I’d like to buy. 
All in all I am still a little traumatised and trying to recover. 

Fair enough and totally understandable. I feel the exact same way. 

We should  have all started Finasteride/Dutasteride a long ass time ago but now it's too late and we have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on multiple surgeries. 

I think your crown and hairline are very solid now Jan. 

Midscalp still has some "weakness" going on but it is only noticeable under harsh light. 

I would would give Estrogen & cyproterone a bit more time. Chances are they will avoid you a 3rd surgery. 

I have seen outstanding transformations with Estrogen & direct Anti Androgens on reddit's page Transtimelines. 

In case you end up needing a 3rd surgery then I think 1000-1500 will probably will sufficient. 

All the best

Edited May 21, 2022 by lack of bludflow