Why do people go to clinics like bisanga, eugenix, hattingten for large Norwood’s?

[Fox243]

I’ve seen Eugenix, Bisanga, Hattingten recommended for high Norwoods, amongst others. However, they only perform FUE but research shows doing as many FUTs and then FUEs maximizes lifetime yield. 
 

tagging some ppl who are doing this: @Melvin- Moderator@Gatsby

Edited November 15, 2021 by Fox243

[Britanium]

7 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

I’ve seen Eugenix, Bisanga, Hattingten recommended for high Norwoods, amongst others. However, they only perform FUE but research shows doing as many FUTs and then FUEs maximizes lifetime yield. 

Nope only Eugenix do FUE only..but also supplement with BHT (Beard), Hattingen do mega FUT sessions as well as FUE. Bisanga is capable of doing combo hts, both FUT/FUE in one ht. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by JC71

[Fox243]

14 minutes ago, JC71 said:

Nope only Eugenix do FUE only..but also supplement with BHT (Beard), Hattingen do mega FUT sessions as well as FUE. Bisanga is capable of doing combo hts, both FUT/FUE in one ht. 

Whoops you’re right – my point still stands for Eugenix. Why not FUT first then Eugenix if needed?

[Britanium]

11 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

Whoops you’re right – my point still stands for Eugenix. Why not FUT first then Eugenix if needed?

Depends on the person, for those not wanting a linear scar they are better off considering Eugenix who can use a combo of FUE and then Beard grafts. For people who don’t mind the FUT scar and really do need to maximise their donor area then they would be better considering either H&W or Hattingen. As I mentioned Bisanga is a master of combining FUT/FUE in one procedure and is also more than capable of using BHT. And then you have someone like Medispa who actually regularly do triple combo Hts ! FUT/FUE/BHT in one session!

So many variables to consider though, like @Melvin- Moderator& @Gatsbyi am considering Eugenix as they pretty much do the best Beard graft work I have seen. Nowadays a excellent source to get another few thousand grafts (beard allowing) 

Edited November 15, 2021 by JC71

[Melvin- Admin]

I didn’t want the scar and felt that I’d rather compromise with using BHT, rather than having a linear scar. When you look at cases like @Zoomster I’d rather my donor look homogenous and less dense than have a strip scar. But that’s just my personal choice.  

[Al - Moderator]

I don't know much about Hattingen, but as for Bisanga and Eugenix, the fact that they can do a lot of beard grafts and use that in the hair transplant plan from the beginning rather than depleting your scalp donor and then using the beard hair as a last resort is part of the reason they are so good with high Norwood cases.

 

[NAVI]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:37 AM, Fox243 said:

Whoops you’re right – my point still stands for Eugenix. Why not FUT first then Eugenix if needed?

One more point to consider might be that eugenix can probably do more with less. So someone doing fut might achieve the same despite more number of grafts but one advantage of that is that the grafts still come from safe donor area. I am not sure how much of unsafe donor area comes into use when fue is used for higher Norwoods.Can someone comment on that?

Edited November 18, 2021 by NAVI

[NAVI]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:23 PM, BeHappy said:

I don't know much about Hattingen, but as for Bisanga and Eugenix, the fact that they can do a lot of beard grafts and use that in the hair transplant plan from the beginning rather than depleting your scalp donor and then using the beard hair as a last resort is part of the reason they are so good with high Norwood cases.

 

Beard grafts are limited by the number of scalp grafts you can get from donor. Probably you cant use more than 30 percent beard hair, so more scalp hair needed for more beard grafts. This means people who do fut will have more scalp grafts and consequently more beard grafts .so total for most people might go upwards of 10000 grafts.

[sedan]

I would not hesitate for FUT to keep a full head of hair but I started FUE as it's not aggressive loss for me. I hope never to use beard or body hair on my scalp, it's not the same in cycles or calibre but I can understand desperate situation for some.

[Fego]

1 hour ago, NAVI said:

One more point to consider might be that eugenix can probably do more with less. So someone doing fut might achieve the same despite more number of grafts but one advantage of that is that the grafts still come from safe donor area. I am not sure how much of unsafe donor area comes into use when fue is used for higher Norwoods.Can someone comment on that?

On the long term fut is advised because it save your donor scalp for more grafts to cover the hair loss that could happen in the future. Also you do not need to take Fin. as the fut is extracted from save zone unlike fue.  So you will find eugenix asked you to take Fin. after surgery to protect  the native and transplanted hair from falling out. Howerover the people tend to fue because they want to avoid linear scar that may stretch with time. So the best thing is to go for fut first and search for the doctor who does fut with very thin scar. Then you can use bread graft to fill this scar in another sitting. 

[NAVI]

Does it make any difference to first go with fue and then later use fut as a reserve?I don't see any problem with going fue first?even permanent hair gets thin and this comes from a doctor who does fut. Transplanted hairs do thin even if taken from permanent zone but do not fall out completely I believe. So finastride is still required. And another thing is that finastride is no gurantee for stabalisation, so being dependent on it as a long term strategy is not advisable.

[Fego]

3 minutes ago, NAVI said:

Does it make any difference to first go with fue and then later use fut as a reserve?I don't see any problem with going fue first?even permanent hair gets thin and this comes from a doctor who does fut. Transplanted hairs do thin even if taken from permanent zone but do not fall out completely I believe. So finastride is still required. And another thing is that finastride is no gurantee for stabalisation, so being dependent on it as a long term strategy is not advisable.

Yes you can go for fue first if they were small number of graft ex. 1500 graft and  tell the doctor that you want to do fut in the 2nd procedure so he will stay away from the fut area on the donor as he can not extrect from it. While if your first fue procedure is to extrect high number of grafts. I think it would be difficult for the doctor to untouch the fut area of extraction. I have the same thinking like you as I want to maximize my donor so I try to search about doctor who can use beard and chest hair extensively. 

[NAVI]

9 minutes ago, Fego said:

Yes you can go for fue first if they were small number of graft ex. 1500 graft and  tell the doctor that you want to do fut in the 2nd procedure so he will stay away from the fut area on the donor as he can not extrect from it. While if your first fue procedure is to extrect high number of grafts. I think it would be difficult for the doctor to untouch the fut area of extraction. I have the same thinking like you as I want to maximize my donor so I try to search about doctor who can use beard and chest hair extensively. 

Even if they touch the permanent zone , what difference does it make? Fut can still be extracted from the remaining hair, the only thing is it would contain lesser hair. But the sum total of permanent hair would still be same eventually. Only difference would be that half were taken through fue and other half through fut? 

[Fego]

13 minutes ago, NAVI said:

Even if they touch the permanent zone , what difference does it make? Fut can still be extracted from the remaining hair, the only thing is it would contain lesser hair. But the sum total of permanent hair would still be same eventually. Only difference would be that half were taken through fue and other half through fut? 

you are right I am convinced about what you said above. but if one can do fue first then can go for fut so I do not understand why people recommend do fut first then finish with fue and this should save additional 3000 grafts than do for fue first. As I understand from the people here the benefit of fut first  is to maximize the donor for the amount of grafts that would be available in the future. So I want to get clarification for my miss understanding. 

[NAVI]

1 hour ago, Fego said:

you are right I am convinced about what you said above. but if one can do fue first then can go for fut so I do not understand why people recommend do fut first then finish with fue and this should save additional 3000 grafts than do for fue first. As I understand from the people here the benefit of fut first  is to maximize the donor for the amount of grafts that would be available in the future. So I want to get clarification for my miss understanding. 

Can some doctor advise on this please?

[hairman22]

Fade hairstyle is very important for the top to look thicker.

 

Im surprised this isnt mentioned more but it is a huge factor for FUE.

Yes you will see small scars but I get a 0 fade & no body has ever said anything about my small scars not even the barber.

FUT way more noticeble

[Havar]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:54 PM, Fego said:

you are right I am convinced about what you said above. but if one can do fue first then can go for fut so I do not understand why people recommend do fut first then finish with fue and this should save additional 3000 grafts than do for fue first. As I understand from the people here the benefit of fut first  is to maximize the donor for the amount of grafts that would be available in the future. So I want to get clarification for my miss understanding. 

All surgeries gives scar, also FUE. The scar makes the next surgery more difficult. The scar gives less blodflow; makes the hair left behind more vulnerable. So; if you do FUT first; the rest hairs will be normal, exept the ones close to the scar. If you do FUE in a bigger area, you will get weaker hairs in a big area and probably more difficult to do a nice dissection of the strip, but also more difficult to dissect each follicular unit. FUT first is the best solution, if you acept linear scar.

[Fego]

16 minutes ago, Havar said:

All surgeries gives scar, also FUE. The scar makes the next surgery more difficult. The scar gives less blodflow; makes the hair left behind more vulnerable. So; if you do FUT first; the rest hairs will be normal, exept the ones close to the scar. If you do FUE in a bigger area, you will get weaker hairs in a big area and probably more difficult to do a nice dissection of the strip, but also more difficult to dissect each follicular unit. FUT first is the best solution, if you acept linear scar.

Thanks Havar  for your clarification

What is your opinion about the concept mentioned below; is it possible? 

In the fut method a strip of skin for example 3000 grafts is cut then all the 3000 grafts are extracted from that strip to be implanted. So I ask if this  approach is possible is to extract the 3000 grafts from the same strip on your hard without cut the skin out of the head so the area of the strip will be fully blank of hair on your head then we can implant 1000 grafts from beard on this blank area. By this way we take the advantage of fut method  where we only extract a from the save zone and preserve the donor above and below this strip for 2^nd procedure ; avoid getting linear scar from fut and implant scalp hairs which have a better density than beard in the frontal and mid scalp area  instead of implanting  beard hair in the mid scalp.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Fego

[Havar]

2 minutes ago, Fego said:

Thanks for your clarification

What is your opinion about the concept mentioned below; is it possible? 

In the fut method a strip of skin for example 3000 grafts is cut then all the 3000 grafts are extracted from that strip to be implanted. So I ask if this  approach is possible is to extract the 3000 grafts from the same strip on your hard without cut the skin out of the head so the area of the strip will be fully blank of hair on your head then we can implant 1000 grafts from beard on this blank area. By this way we take the advantage of fut method  where we only extract a from the save zone and preserve the donor above and below this strip for 2^nd procedure ; avoid getting linear scar from fut and implant scalp hairs which have a better density than beard in the frontal and mid scalp area  instead of implanting  beard hair in the mid scalp.

I am not an expert, but it is not that easy to switch between FUT and FUE. One of the adventage with FUT is that you can dissect each unit in the microscope and slike it up so you can take 1 or 2 hairs as needed. If you do FUE there must be som distance between each graft; there must be som «skintissue» even if it is tight to the FU. The hairs are so close so it is easier to hurt the hair next to. The quality of the extractions will be lower. It will also be so much scartissue, that the blodflow would most likely not be good enough to make the beard grafts survive in the next session. I am not sure, but it makes sense for me.

[Al - Moderator]

57 minutes ago, Fego said:

What is your opinion about the concept mentioned below; is it possible? 

In the fut method a strip of skin for example 3000 grafts is cut then all the 3000 grafts are extracted from that strip to be implanted. So I ask if this  approach is possible is to extract the 3000 grafts from the same strip on your hard without cut the skin out of the head so the area of the strip will be fully blank of hair on your head then we can implant 1000 grafts from beard on this blank area. By this way we take the advantage of fut method  where we only extract a from the save zone and preserve the donor above and below this strip for 2^nd procedure ; avoid getting linear scar from fut and implant scalp hairs which have a better density than beard in the frontal and mid scalp area  instead of implanting  beard hair in the mid scalp.

 

 

You will still have a "linear" scar, except instead of the scar looking like this:

_______

it will look like this:

 

And those rows of little FUE scars could be worse than the FUT scar in regards to trying to get hair to grow in it. If you are trying to use the best donor area and are planning on filling in the scar with beard hair afterwards, then just do FUT strip surgery.