Is there a significant difference between a top-notch hairline and a "decent" hairline for (very) short hair ???

[ced80]

 

Hey guys,

I'd appreciate your opinion on that one.

As you can see on the photo, I have super low density and very short hair since I suffer of diffuse Alopecia. I have had 2 FUTs a long time ago but unfortunately almost all the grafts have fallen down..

In order to rebuild my hairline and give more density on the frontal zone I plan to have a FUE surgery (3000 grafts) with a top-notch, but very expensive, surgeon. He has excellent results on the hairline quality and density and a great reputation. 

The thing is that I plan to keep my hair super short ( round 0,5 cm ) even after the surgery because the density will still be limited. So I am wondering if it is worth to spend a huge amount of money in order to have a high density top-notch hairline but with very short hair... ??

I mean, do you think that there will there be a significant ( visible ) difference between a top-notch hairline and a good decent hairline, if with super short hair ?

I believe maybe not, but I am not sure so I'd appreciate your comments 😉

The surgeon who I am considering has per graft fees at least double from the standard rates compare to other good surgeons on the market. And with 3000 grafts that can make a BIG financial difference 😜

Thanks a lot in advance for your kind opinion !!!

 

 

 

[aaron1234]

If you're asking whether there's a difference between good and elite HT docs, then yes there is definitely a difference regardless of what area they are transplanting.  Even though you say your previous HT's have thinned out I still see stubble on top.  If you're going to keep that style after your surgery, I'd say that 3000 grafts would definitely make a difference at the hairline.  But are you planning on using some FUE grafts to address your preexisting strip scar?  It would be helpful to see your donor region.  It'd be sort of curious to keep your hair that short without doing something about the strip scar.

[Melvin- Admin]

It's much more important with short hair. With long hair you can disguise some fundamental flaws like a few multi-grafts or macro and micro-irregularity disparities. However, with short hair, you need to get a surgeon who does an excellent job. I will also say, that it is extremely difficult to get the appearance of density with short hair. A prime example is David DiMuzio with long hair he looks very dense, with short hair you can see a lot of scalp.

 

[ced80]

9 hours ago, aaron1234 said:

If you're asking whether there's a difference between good and elite HT docs, then yes there is definitely a difference regardless of what area they are transplanting.  Even though you say your previous HT's have thinned out I still see stubble on top.  If you're going to keep that style after your surgery, I'd say that 3000 grafts would definitely make a difference at the hairline.  But are you planning on using some FUE grafts to address your preexisting strip scar?  It would be helpful to see your donor region.  It'd be sort of curious to keep your hair that short without doing something about the strip scar.

Thanks Aaron!

As you can see on the photo, I still have some hair on the top but very few. The fact that I cut my hair super short makes the alopecia less obvious Vs the full hair sides.

Actually, my exact question was kind of double. If I have super short hair as today : 1) will it be essential to have a top-notch natural looking hairline ? and 2)  will it be essential to have a high density on the top frontal zone ?

My doubt is whether with very short hair, these two factors are so important in order to have a natural hair look. If with long hair I 'm sure that they are essentials.

And good remark regarding my FUT scar. Indeed, I just had my FUT scar excised 3 weeks ago. I have attached a photo of how it looks today.

Thanks again !

[ced80]

8 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

It's much more important with short hair. With long hair you can disguise some fundamental flaws like a few multi-grafts or macro and micro-irregularity disparities. However, with short hair, you need to get a surgeon who does an excellent job. I will also say, that it is extremely difficult to get the appearance of density with short hair. A prime example is David DiMuzio with long hair he looks very dense, with short hair you can see a lot of scalp.

 

 

Thank you Melvin !

I appreciate your highly-experienced view on the matter. 

Indeed, In understand that long hair can help to hide some flaws in the hairline when there are enough hair. In my case, the density is super low (see the 2 photos I added) so it is just impossible to let my hair grow further or it would make the Alopecia even more obvious.

But I understand from your message that short hair will make any flaws / unnatural hairline even more obvious.. so it is even more important to go with a top surgeon.

Thank you also to share the case of DiMuzio. I didn't know him but indeed with the shockloss we can see his scalp more on the video. Hopefully, it will improve much on the mid-long term.

I have to make up my mind and decide going for a 30 K $ surgery with a top-notch surgeon or a 15K $ with a decent good one !

Thanks again 😊

 

[BLE123]

Sorry but I don't see where you're going to get 3k grafts from unless you have a lot of beard/body hair to use. Have you consulted with the surgeon yet?

[WhiteyUK]

Was just about to say exactly the same... your doner doesn’t look like it will yield 3k grafts, or even half that.

[ced80]

7 minutes ago, BLE123 said:

Sorry but I don't see where you're going to get 3k grafts from unless you have a lot of beard/body hair to use. Have you consulted with the surgeon yet?

Thank you for your experts comments 😉 

Indeed the surgeon plans to harvest around 2000 grafts from scalp and 1000+ grafts from the beard hair.

[BLE123]

4 hours ago, ced80 said:

Thank you for your experts comments 😉 

Indeed the surgeon plans to harvest around 2000 grafts from scalp and 1000+ grafts from the beard hair.

I'm by no means an expert but I feel informed enough to know a bad transplant candidate when I see one and unfortunately I think you fall into that category. You have extensive thinning throughout the donor, even if the surgeon did somehow manage to harvest 2000 grafts I wouldn't bank on them sticking around for very long - are you even on any kind of hair loss medication? All I can see is in a few years' time you'll be back to more or less where you are now but 30 grand poorer and with a bunch of FUE scars in the back of your head. I'm really not intending to be mean but that's my honest opinion.

Have you ever looked into SMP? Given you want to wear your hair short anyway and you still have a bit of stubble left on top I think it would blend in well with the SMP giving it a bit more of a "3D effect", you'd also be able to cover the FUT scar to the point where it's almost undetectable. You're also probably looking at a cost of more like 5k rather than 30 and you get the illusion of a pretty full head of hair and no scars. Of course just like with hair transplants you need to do your research to find the right place to get it done but some of the results nowadays are seriously impressive, far more so than what you're going to get out of a hair transplant. 

Like I say though, that's just my opinion. 

[Britanium]

Out of curiosity who was your FUTs with ? And how many grafts were taken ? The fact you mentioned the grafts have fallen Is concerning to say the least.

You run the risk of having another result with a unsatisfactory outcome. And then you would have to deal with FUE scarring which maybe pretty noticeable with a already thinned out donor area. Especially if you wear you hair short. Even supplementing with Beard grafts I don’t think you will achieve the numbers you need for reasonable coverage. 
I don’t say it often but i would really consider not having any further transplants. I also agree that SMP could be a option for you. 
 

[ced80]

 

Thank you very much to both of you for your concern. Much appreciated. Even if I would have preferred an opinion on my original question 😉

Indeed my donor area is quite limited, but several renowned surgeons, including, Feriduni, Konior or the HLC clinic indeed consider me as patient for a FUE (scalp + beard). I hope I can trust their acute analysis and experience. In the case where some FUE spots would be visible, possibly SMP could help.

I indeed had a SMP into my scar before to excise it. It was good at the beginning but the 2nd tatoo made on it wasn't natural anymore.

I don't take any Propecia and Monoxidyl as I has side effects for both.

The 2 FUT were done 11 years ago in Canada by Dr. David Clas, but he has closed his clinic some years ago. The result was very good in the first years then it started shredding year by year until today. I don't know I could have avoid the loss of grafts with another surgeon, maybe it's due to genetics.

 

[aaron1234]

I understand why some are wondering if you're even a HT candidate at this point, but since you just got a scar reduction a few weeks ago we could very well be seeing some shock loss in your donor right now.  My answer to your question is the same as Melvin's - yes, shorter hair styles are more exposed so an elite doc would be just as necessary, if not more so.  Here's a case that comes to mind, albeit his donor is extraordinary.  

 

[ced80]

16 minutes ago, aaron1234 said:

I understand why some are wondering if you're even a HT candidate at this point, but since you just got a scar reduction a few weeks ago we could very well be seeing some shock loss in your donor right now.  My answer to your question is the same as Melvin's - yes, shorter hair styles are more exposed so an elite doc would be just as necessary, if not more so.  Here's a case that comes to mind, albeit his donor is extraordinary.  

 

Thank you Aaron but I am not wondering if I am an HT candidate at this point. As I mentioned, several renowned surgeons feel that I am a candidate for FUE so I totally trust their opinion. 

True that I could have some shock loss after this scar reduction, but it is supposed to grow back I believe ??

Thanks a lot for your opinion regarding short hair being more exposed... I totally understand and agree with that view. I really feel I will go for the top suregon.

Thanks also for the Konior case . I had already seen it. Quite amazing indeed althought the guy is not a caucasian and seems to have thicker hair than average caucasians.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

8 hours ago, ced80 said:

Thanks Aaron!

As you can see on the photo, I still have some hair on the top but very few. The fact that I cut my hair super short makes the alopecia less obvious Vs the full hair sides.

Actually, my exact question was kind of double. If I have super short hair as today : 1) will it be essential to have a top-notch natural looking hairline ? and 2)  will it be essential to have a high density on the top frontal zone ?

My doubt is whether with very short hair, these two factors are so important in order to have a natural hair look. If with long hair I 'm sure that they are essentials.

And good remark regarding my FUT scar. Indeed, I just had my FUT scar excised 3 weeks ago. I have attached a photo of how it looks today.

Thanks again !

I’m gonna be honest. I don’t think you should consider another HT. It’s clear you have significant diffuse thinning in the donor. Overall, your donor looks sparse and weak. Even if you did get surgery how many years would it last before you look the same. Have you considered smp?

[ced80]

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m gonna be honest. I don’t think you should consider another HT. It’s clear you have significant diffuse thinning in the donor. Overall, your donor looks sparse and weak. Even if you did get surgery how many years would it last before you look the same. Have you considered smp?

 

Thank you Melvin for your honest opinion. Althought, I am not sure if you have read that  "several renowned surgeons, including, Feriduni, Konior or the HLC clinic indeed consider me as patient for a FUE (scalp + beard). I hope I can trust their acute analysis and experience. In the case where some FUE spots would be visible, possibly SMP could help.".

Although, the surgeons have seen my donor area before my scar reduction (photo attached) which may seem better than the photo taken after the reduction.

I will consider SMP as a last solution, and in case some FUE scars become visible.

Thank you again for your kind support.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, ced80 said:

 

Thank you Melvin for your honest opinion. Althought, I am not sure if you have read that  "several renowned surgeons, including, Feriduni, Konior or the HLC clinic indeed consider me as patient for a FUE (scalp + beard). I hope I can trust their acute analysis and experience. In the case where some FUE spots would be visible, possibly SMP could help.".

Although, the surgeons have seen my donor area before my scar reduction (photo attached) which may seem better than the photo taken after the reduction.

I will consider SMP as a last solution, and in case some FUE scars become visible.

Thank you again for your kind support.

 

While you may be a candidate short-term, what will it look like long term? You’ve already had two HTs that have completely thinned. By looking at your donor it is apparent why. I don’t see any surgeon getting more than 2,500-3000 grafts and that’s being generous. As a Norwood 6/7 you need at least double. Anyways thats my assessment. I would proceed with caution.

[gradina22]

Hello ced. Hope you will manage a decent outcome,whatever you decide. 

 

Guys already commented on your average/bellow average donor problems. 

 

I have a question. Since you already stated that you had sides both from fin and minox (damn, from minox too) did you discuss also that matter with those docs that you mentioned - you dont take medication - and how will that affect future hairloss and survival of your grafts?? 

What were their thoughts? 

[ced80]

 

Thank you Gradina, much appreciated.

No, I haven't mentionned my side effects to propecia/minox to the surgeons. I shall indeed and see their feedback on how it could influence their work.

Also thanks Melvin true that the surgeon I am in contact with mentioned that my grafts may have fallen because of genetic influence, he didn't specify if/and why a surgery with him would have some better outcomes. And to reply to your graft estimates, indeed the surgeon estimates to can harvest 2000 grafts from the scalp area and around 1000 from beard. He believes he could possibly make a second surgery later with the same number of grafts (around 3000) but using more BHT than scalp hair.

Interesting topic even if that's not going the direction I planned  

[Raphael84]

Hi @ced80

Thank you for sharing your photos and case.

You have received some great support and advice already.
My recommendation would definitely be to visit your preferred doctor in person before committing to any surgery to allow them to thoroughly examine and evaluate your donor area and your recipient area as a repair surgery revisiting the same non virgin scalp, and to be able to provide real live data in terms of your donor density, hair groupings and also very importantly levels of miniaturisation. 

As you have explained that transplanted hair from previous surgery has thinned, this may well be likely due to the decline in quality of your donor area in this interim period due to not being able to take medication and your donor not presenting a stable environment. If this is the case, then regardless of your doctor and regardless of your budget, growth and yield may well be influenced as well as the longevity of any potential result from a further surgery. This is well worth an in person consultation in my opinion, regardless of the inconvenience of travel and potential expense, to allow you to be accurately informed on what may be the most appropriate next step for you.

I wish you the very best.

 

[ced80]

13 hours ago, Raphael84 said:

Hi @ced80

Thank you for sharing your photos and case.

You have received some great support and advice already.
My recommendation would definitely be to visit your preferred doctor in person before committing to any surgery to allow them to thoroughly examine and evaluate your donor area and your recipient area as a repair surgery revisiting the same non virgin scalp, and to be able to provide real live data in terms of your donor density, hair groupings and also very importantly levels of miniaturisation. 

As you have explained that transplanted hair from previous surgery has thinned, this may well be likely due to the decline in quality of your donor area in this interim period due to not being able to take medication and your donor not presenting a stable environment. If this is the case, then regardless of your doctor and regardless of your budget, growth and yield may well be influenced as well as the longevity of any potential result from a further surgery. This is well worth an in person consultation in my opinion, regardless of the inconvenience of travel and potential expense, to allow you to be accurately informed on what may be the most appropriate next step for you.

I wish you the very best.

 

 

Hi Raphael,

Thank you very much for your valuable advice.

You underlined some factors to which i didn't think like miniaturization or quality of the non-virgin recipient site. Indeed it makes sense that for such a complex and important surgery a physical visit to the doctor should be favored..

I will try to first meet the surgeon to confirm I am a good patient for FUE.

Thanks a thousand.

[EvoXOhio]

I have to echo everyone here - you’re not a good candidate for an HT. The HT itself will likely not give you anywhere close to decent coverage, and the hairs will likely not survive long term. In a few years from now you’ll be right back to where you are now, or worse. 

[DrTBarghouthi]

Thanks for your message. Given the existing weakness in the donor and the progressive thinning following FUT - I don’t recommend undergoing surgery. I would however suggest SMP or a hair systems (combined with some transplam ) for you.

[Al - Moderator]

You guys are not understanding him. @ced80is not trying to get a full head of hair. He knows he can't get that. He is trying to improve his buzzed hair appearance somewhat so that he doesn't look so bald when it's buzzed short. There is not going to be 3000 grafts taken from the scalp as using beard hair was mentioned. However I'm sure some scalp hair would/should be used for the very frontal hair line area. I think his expectations are very reasonable.

Pertaining to the original question: Without knowing who you are actually planning to go to it's impossible to say if that is a better choice than someone else. Cost doesn't tell us much as cost can vary a great deal between different countries. The lowest cost clinic in the one country may be more expensive than some of the best clinics in another country. I would be careful about putting too much at the hairline or trying to make the hairline too much lower. I would try spreading the grafts out over a larger area if you really want to improve the short cut look.

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by BeHappy