Experience with Dr Bhatti

[greyG]

To start I'd like to say this is my experience. Based on the interaction I have had with Dr Bhatti. Needless to say, I decided not to go ahead with the procedure based on the turn of events.

 

I've been pondering a HT for gaps I have in my hairline, crown, and frontal thinning. I still have a full head of hair.

 

So I found the forum, looked up reviews right here, and Dr Bhatti has had some amazing success stories.. As I'd be travelling to India, for other business, this November, I finally decided to take the plunge.

 

I got in touch with him and paid the deposit, without any hesitation. I had done the same thing last year, but had freaked out at the prospect of shock loss in thinning areas and cancelled. He had been good enough to refund my deposit on that occassion.

 

So this time I just went ahead without a second thought.. WE corresponded a few times, he sent me a doc, with information on what meds I needed to take prior to the procedure. I know that antibiotics are sometimes needed after, so I dropped him a message enquiring about what other meds I need..

 

So he comes back saying I will need to take Finasteride 1mg, and minoxidil, for 6 months after.. This information was never made explicit at any time prior to this point.. I had seen a doctor in London who had asked me to get on Fin 1mg, going so far as saying I would need a min. No of grafts as fin would fill things in within 1 year.. I'd seen my GP here in London about this, and based on my blood results, he had asked me to stay away from it as there was a good chance I'd suffer side effects.

 

So I relayed this info to Dr Bhatti.. And his response was downright condescending.. He cited some stats saying I have more chance of getting hit by a bus than suffering side effects.. This is even after I'd informed him my GP had said otherwise..

 

We went back and forth a few times, then he pulled a statistic saying

"Regrowth has a 95% chance on Fin, and a 65% chance without".. For me this is a dealbreaker.. I posted on the forum, and a few ppl have responded saying, Fin is good for shock loss, and growth of existing hair.. Not for regrowth of implanted grafts..

 

He said I could get the procedure done, but there were no guarantees.. As a worst case scenario, I'd only have 65% of the grafts growing back.. I was not willing to spend something close to ?3,500, add to that the flight and accomodation.. For such odds.. And I asked for a refund.. Giving him 2 months notice.. He comes back saying no refunds.. Fair enough..

 

My gripe is with the tone he took, and the fact that it is not made explicit from the outset that Fin is such a necessity for the success of the procedure..

 

I hope the mods will not delete this, as its not a glowing review, for anyone else taking this step, and not wanting/being able to take Fin.. Please ask these questions before you proceed..

 

As I said this is my experience, and my interpretation, I have emails backing up everything I say.. or what I understood from them

 

Thanks

[JayLDD]

There is no way the London GP could know from a blood test whether you were more likely to get sides.

 

The fact that Bhatti refunded your deposit over your silly complaint of shock loss when he had no real reason to shows he is ethical, certainly I would not when dealing with a patient as fickle as you are.

 

I don't agree with the regrowth statistics he gave, but ultimately you would be far better off on finasteride than not on it. He doesn't want to be responsible for a case where a patient has a transplanted hairline and loses the hair behind it because they were scared of finasteride, then runs to the forums complaining about the doctor. You seem like the type of person to do this judging by your first cancellation, so his caution is justified when dealing with an irrational patient.

 

Objective point of view; you are being silly and Dr. Bhatti did nothing wrong. Also your GP is an idiot and makes shit up because a blood test cannot tell you the chance of getting sides.

[greyG]

Lol you're funny mate... You expect me to listen to a Dr I met on an internet forum, over my GP?... and its not "silly" to be afraid of the side effects of Fin.. There's a whole forum for ppl who have suffered irreversible side effects..

And why would one want to spend thousands on a HT when fin can do the job?..

[JayLDD]

Use a Google search. Your doctor is a bullshit artist who makes doesn't care about legitimate data or facts. There is no non-anecdotal medical data that allows a blood test to indicate chance of finasteride sides with accuracy.

 

I can guarantee that Bhatti is making twice the income of your idiot GP, even being a surgeon in India. Secondly, why in the world would a GP know more about hairloss medication than a hair transplant surgeon?

 

Again, Bhatti is lucky that he didn't have to deal with you as a patient, you are not a rational person.

[greyG]

Wow are you a professional troll?.. or on Bhatti's payroll?... I suggest you do a google search yourself.. or just browse the pages of this forum for the many side effects of fin?

[JayLDD]

Nope, just a realist. You're the one smart enough to lose two deposits on the same doctor, and avoid finasteride because of illegitimate data you couldn't be bothered to just Google search. This isn't a support group for your bad decisions mate.

[greyG]

Clearly one of the trolls on the forum who resorts to personal insults.. Guess according to you all the ppl posting about the side effects of fin are just hallucinating... And ae all idiots like me and my doctor..

 

Noticed how you glossed over Bhatti's 95% over 65% success rate claim so smoothly.. Clearly any story that's not a glowing review gets this treatment on this forum..

 

Fanks..

[JayLDD]

Clearly one of the trolls on the forum who resorts to personal insults.. Guess according to you all the ppl posting about the side effects of fin are just hallucinating... And ae all idiots like me and my doctor..

 

Noticed how you glossed over Bhatti's 95% over 65% success rate claim so smoothly.. Clearly any story that's not a glowing review gets this treatment on this forum..

 

Fanks..

 

I think Bhatti was probably lying about that statistic because he knew that you'd probably get some thickening, regrowth and maintenance on finasteride that would make the overall result look better, but ultimately he was trying to help you.

 

I didn't insult you either, I literally just reiterated what you had already said; that you had wasted two deposits for irrational reasons, didn't get on finasteride which would greatly benefit you and then blamed the doctor.

 

People get sides, but the major studies show it is in the range of 2-5%. The claim of your GP that he could tell you were more likely to get sides based on a blood test has no evidence to back it up either. Look into it yourself and you'll find the same conclusion.

 

Anyone who has seen my posts before knows I roast doctors all the time. I'm just being honest that in this case the doctor did nothing wrong, and the fact he refunded your first deposit when he didn't have to shows he was being ethical.

Edited September 20, 2017 by JeanLDD

[Bald36]

I have to agree with Jeanlucbergman. The idea that a doctor can know that a patient will have side effects from propecia based on a blood test is something I've never heard or read. I think that for this to be true the exact reasons for side effects would have to be known in the first place and everything I've read tells me that no one knows why anyone has side effects from propecia.

 

I don't think the stats matter at this point because your GENERAL practitioner gave you one piece of advice and the doctor that specialized in what he does for a living, what you were seeking his expertise on, gave you a contradictory piece of advice. You chose to take the advice of your non-specialist doctor. I don't see a problem with that but also I don't see a problem with Dr. Bhatti keeping your deposit since you chose to waste his time, not once, but twice.

[LosingGround75]

You were right to pull the plug on your procedure. If a Doctor is not transparent about what drugs you need to take post surgery then that's a red flag. For many propecia is a non-starter and in no way should a Doctor insist on taking it after taking your cash. There will always be smart asses in these forums who think they're so clever and have there own agenda. Ignore them. If you were uncomfortable to proceed with the op then who are they to judge. The 65% success rate is a ridiculous comment made by Dr Bhatti and another red flag.

[Gasthoerer]

1. To use FIN if you have hairloss makes sense IMO

2. To use FIN if you have hairloss and plan a hair transplant makes a lot of sense and many clinics recommend it

3. The sides of FIN are much less common in reality compared to the Standard Forum user

4. I have never ever (!) heard from a blood test, which can predict sides effects of FIN

5. That you recevied your deposit back in the first place was generous

6. The effect of FIN of regrowth is much smaller (actually it is zero, if you hairs are from the safe zone)

--> Most likely it is just a misunderstanding between the TO and the clinic

 

 

My recommendation GreyG:

- Please read another 6 - 12 month in this or in other Forums about hairloss and transplants

- Then visit 2-3 recommended clinic and dicuss with them

- Then decide for your favorit clinic

 

If you give pics we can help if FIN is recommended in your case or even mandatory.

[mikeyhwk]

A blood test cannot conclusively tell you that you will get fin sides but it can tell you if you are on the lower end of the dht spectrum which in turn tells you that youre total test is on the low end of the spectrum as well. That would put you in the higher risk zone than a male who has test levels in the optimal range. Has your doctor addressed your low test levels?

[Gasthoerer]

... but it can tell you if you are on the lower end of the dht spectrum which in turn tells you that youre total test is on the low end of the spectrum as well...

 

Where do you got this information from?

[Dolph1969]

FIN - You'll either have side effects, or you won't... try it and see if it agrees with you, or not.

[mikeyhwk]

Where do you got this information from?

 

if you're asking what test gives you that info, a serum dht test will give you your dht levels. You would want to take it prior fin to get a baseline to measure against as once you take fin the conversion gets skewed. Prior fin higher test means higher dht but once conversion is inhibited, the free test goes up while dht lowered.

[Gasthoerer]

if you're asking what test gives you that info...

 

That is not (!) my question. My questions is: Where do you know from that there is more risk if your are at the lower end of the DHT scale?

 

Is this coming from a study or just your opinion? Why do you have such an opinion?

 

Actually, I am at the lower end and have no issues in 2.5 years on FIN.

[Silver669]

I went with Dr Bahatti two years ago and he gave me a free procedure a year later after i had issues with the results, but no arguments. I think he's an honest, fair guy in my experience. I've never heard of Fin re-growing hair? I thought it just slowed down your natural hair loss. I've been on FIN for 2 years with no side effects and my hair stopped falling out. I just got a 4 weeks supply from Boots chemist, checked for any side effects and continued when all was fine. I would have stopped if it didn't feel right. I wouldn't have had a HT without the meds, I don't see the point. That said, hair started dropping again 2 weeks ago so even without side effects there's no guarantee. Everyone has different experiences and unless you try it you'll never know. Still, you're right not to have the op if you've got concerns, it's quite a big deal. It took me 2 years to pluck up the courage. Don't know why you're getting such a hard time, so what if you changed your mind. I did on a daily basis. Good luck.

[mikeyhwk]

That is not (!) my question. My questions is: Where do you know from that there is more risk if your are at the lower end of the DHT scale?

 

Is this coming from a study or just your opinion? Why do you have such an opinion?

 

Actually, I am at the lower end and have no issues in 2.5 years on FIN.

 

My apologies from the way you framed your question I wasn't sure.

 

I didn't say it was definitive, just said someone on the lower end of the spectrum could be at higher risk for sides (strictly talking odds) but there are no absolutes and individual response varies, hence why I said there was no conclusive test. If you think it out logically it makes sense given how testosterone works in the body

 

if you're on the low end of the dht spectrum pre fin that would mean your test production is on the low end as you would be producing less thus converting less. The body keeps hormonal balance by converting some of your total test to dht and some to estrogen. Once you include fin that balance gets skewed, your dht production gets reduced which if you're on the low end of the spectrum to start would likely take you to sub optimal levels making you prone to low dht sides...your body then because of the inhibiting of dht conversion is now having more free test in your system which in turn means it'll spike estrogen. So now you've got low dht symptoms and higher than normal estrogen levels. Look thru the overlap of what those symptoms are and you've got the sides guys worry about. I haven't looked to see what studies have been done on it but i'll dig when I have some time as it'd be nice to confirm but just thinking it thru being low dht and high in estrogen would have to put you at higher risk for sides than just being out of range on one side of the conversion right?

[JayLDD]

My apologies from the way you framed your question I wasn't sure.

 

I didn't say it was definitive, just said someone on the lower end of the spectrum could be at higher risk for sides (strictly talking odds) but there are no absolutes and individual response varies, hence why I said there was no conclusive test. If you think it out logically it makes sense given how testosterone works in the body

 

if you're on the low end of the dht spectrum pre fin that would mean your test production is on the low end as you would be producing less thus converting less. The body keeps hormonal balance by converting some of your total test to dht and some to estrogen. Once you include fin that balance gets skewed, your dht production gets reduced which if you're on the low end of the spectrum to start would likely take you to sub optimal levels making you prone to low dht sides...your body then because of the inhibiting of dht conversion is now having more free test in your system which in turn means it'll spike estrogen. So now you've got low dht symptoms and higher than normal estrogen levels. Look thru the overlap of what those symptoms are and you've got the sides guys worry about. I haven't looked to see what studies have been done on it but i'll dig when I have some time as it'd be nice to confirm but just thinking it thru being low dht and high in estrogen would have to put you at higher risk for sides than just being out of range on one side of the conversion right?

 

Makes sense, but I've seen people claim DHT levels higher than average on dutasteride, with minor sides and hair stabilisation, and others with DHT levels way below average with no sides and they're still losing hair. It's definitely much more complicated than a few raw numbers. I haven't seen any specific studies dealing with the issue so I don't think its right for a doctor to make any hard claims.

[mikeyhwk]

Makes sense, but I've seen people claim DHT levels higher than average on dutasteride, with minor sides and hair stabilisation, and others with DHT levels way below average with no sides and they're still losing hair. It's definitely much more complicated than a few raw numbers. I haven't seen any specific studies dealing with the issue so I don't think its right for a doctor to make any hard claims.

 

I agree, there's definitely more to it than simply what I've laid out as we've all seen cases where these rules didn't apply. I'm certainly not making any definitive claims but the op said his doctor ran some tests that indicated he was likely to experience sides on fin and I just hypothesized what his test may have been and what his doctor may have seen. Only definitive course I've seen is try fin and see what happens.

[Gasthoerer]

My apologies from the way you framed your question I wasn't sure.

 

I didn't say it was definitive, just said someone on the lower end of the spectrum could be at higher risk for sides (strictly talking odds) ...

 

No problem, I a not a native speaker which might lead to some misunderstanding sometimes. However, you conclusion appears to be completely "bro science" or better "bro theories". Sorry, I do not want to sound offensive, but it is really not much more.

 

I could also argue that as FIN lowers DHT by a certain %, those with high DHT levels will have a a bigger drop in absolute values. This could lead to more sides, for those with higher DHT levels as well.

 

Again, I am not looking for a big discussion, but these kind of "Internet theories" can be very misleading.

[mikeyhwk]

No problem, I a not a native speaker which might lead to some misunderstanding sometimes. However, you conclusion appears to be completely "bro science" or better "bro theories". Sorry, I do not want to sound offensive, but it is really not much more.

 

I could also argue that as FIN lowers DHT by a certain %, those with high DHT levels will have a a bigger drop in absolute values. This could lead to more sides, for those with higher DHT levels as well.

 

Again, I am not looking for a big discussion, but these kind of "Internet theories" can be very misleading.

 

lmao dont be sorry it is bro theory but we do not have the definitive answer so all reasons out there for why some have sides and others dont are as brotheory as the next. I also wasn't presenting my thoughts as any sort of legit theory, just talking odds, given what we know happens, what could possibly happen downstream given certain conditions but nothing was said or meant in any conclusive manner.I acknowledge there is more to it and said as much. By the way your absolute value theory is total brotheory

[Gasthoerer]

By the way your absolute value theory is total brotheory

Haha, yes, absolutely

[greyG]

I had a blood test, with low testosterone levels, and the GP suggested I not take fin, as it might make things worse..

 

But lets get back on track... My issue with Dr Bhatti was that he was pushing the fin... For the reasons I think one person here has suggested.. Which is it causes a thickness by default.. Citing the stat he did.. Was a red flag for me..

 

I approached this guy because his reputation seems good based on what I've read on these forums.. My experience says otherwise.. I gave him more than 2 months notice, and he still knicked my deposit lol.. No way I would go back to someone like that..

 

Also I've had friends not on this forum who got HT's from local Turkish clinics.. which have a terrible rep here.. and without Fin or Min.. They have their hair back!..

 

Why would a Dr push Fin?.. My guess.. Their on Merck's payroll.. My guess here.. As soon as a Dr strats putting profits inftront of a patients welfare that's a no go for me.

[greyG]

You were right to pull the plug on your procedure. If a Doctor is not transparent about what drugs you need to take post surgery then that's a red flag. For many propecia is a non-starter and in no way should a Doctor insist on taking it after taking your cash. There will always be smart asses in these forums who think they're so clever and have there own agenda. Ignore them. If you were uncomfortable to proceed with the op then who are they to judge. The 65% success rate is a ridiculous comment made by Dr Bhatti and another red flag.

 

 

Thank you! a voice of reason finally!

 

... why is it that most of the senior members on this forum vociferously defend Bhatti?.. No its not ok that he kept my deposit..

And yes its ok that I raise concerns.. and if they aren't addressed I pull the plug.. Its not wasting time..

If you didn't ask questions before a procedure that has a recovery time of over a year.. and costs thousands.. You're either millionaires, just plain thick... Or lying.. Thank you to the ppl like the guy above for your support and common sense.