Pics and Stats with first surgery on the way

[esrec]

I actually think Dr Rahal would do an outstanding job for your situation.. He is called the hairline king after all, and will densly pack it in for you.

 

Ok, I will reach out. For FUT or FUE? Believe or it not the middle thinning area is MUCH more frustrating for me. I'm able to mask the hairline well, but of course that is a big factor too.

[esrec]

Here is a recent good FUE result with no strip scar.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173759-2-781-grafts-dr-diep-11.html

 

There are great FUE results and great FUT results out there. FUT might get you a bit better yield but you are contending with a scar that may or may not become problematic. Also down time is longer. With FUE youll be fine in a month.

 

You have thick hair. I think you can get away with FUE from a great doctor like Lorenzo. 2500 grafts.

 

Hair is thick, its allowed me to mask well. I will definitely lose more. Who knows what technology or advancements produce in the next 5-10 yrs, but cant plan for that.

 

Dr. Lorenzo is the top FUE in Europe or US too?

[mav23100gunther]

Fair. I noticed that, and you'll see I followed up with him on that in the next thread. There is however a mention of "financial ties", so not sure if thats why.

 

He has no financial ties with Dr B, only Dr Lindsay and Dr Blake.

[mav23100gunther]

Ok, I will reach out. For FUT or FUE? Believe or it not the middle thinning area is MUCH more frustrating for me. I'm able to mask the hairline well, but of course that is a big factor too.

 

Rahal does both, but definitely go with FUT with him. If you elect FUE, then go with Erdogan, Lorenzo, or Feriduni - all in Europe.

 

Just look at the pictures of his patients - his hairlines are unmatched and he will densly pack it along with the middle. People say he is very aggresive with the grafts on the hairline, so consider that. Regardless, I think you would have a tough time choosing between Rahal, Hasson, or Ron Shapiro

[esrec]

This is as honest and forthright an answer from a doctor as you're ever likely to get. Dr. Feller's surgeons lists are the cream of the crop, and you'd be in great shape.

 

I disagree with the statement, though, that you're unlikely to progress beyond a NWIII. You're 35, so not "young" by HT standards but also not old. You don't have extremely significant loss, but you don't have minimal loss, and the remaining hair on your head is much thinner than original density native hair. There is a very good chance you will lose a fairly significant portion of what you have, and the idea that you'll need only 5,000 grafts for life is not something I would rely on. Basically, I respect Seth's perspective a lot, but I really disagree that you're a "textbook" FUE candidate.

 

My input: I would get an FUT. I had fairly minimal loss (very dense NWII) and had an FUT at 29. I went to a mediocre-to-poor doc and happened to get a stellar result through blind luck, but the scar is only OK. Even with the C+ scar, I do not for a second regret getting FUT. The yield was fantastic, and I am not bothered by the scar. I like to wear short hairstyles, but find that the scar is easily concealed at a 3 guard, and I frequently cut to a 2.5 guard and rub a little DermMatch on the scar. One person has every noticed, and he already knew what a transplant scar was. I know there's a lot of caterwauling about transplant scars, but I'm the kind of guy who should be bothered by it: young, 90% of my original hair intact, and prefers short hairstyles. And it's really not bad. If a couple years go by and you want to minimize it, you can get some SMP and FUE into the scar and dramatically reduce its visibility. I know that once you're cut, you're cut, but I think the significance of the scar is really oversold.

 

Thank you so much for the detail here. Yes, I would love to play the card of being optimistic and saying I wont lose more, but Im not that old, I know I will. My hair is similar to my fathers, youngest brother has very strong hairline, middle brother in between.

 

What is "textbook" if you subtract hair length and need for quick recovery? Just curious.

 

FUT scarring/results--this was a big one for me. Awesome of you to elaborate. I dont wear my hair very short and never have. Could see going short if / when crown goes but a 3 cut would prob suffice. I asked earlier, but couldnt you just laser the scar to thin it out?

 

Confession: I've been in denial of how much scar was playing into my decision. I've talking outcome and results being #1, ill concerned with cost or travel, but still stuck with this idea that FUT was absolutely the no brainer until others started chiming in and mentions of FUE being caught up. Then I saw pictures of the scar and heard of long recovery and tightness.

 

You feel this is exaggerated in the top hands? I can take a month off.

 

The downtime and recovery and subsequent masking agents Id still have to use for 5 months will be exhausting but I do NOT want to be shortsighted. Sounds like a H+W are super safe from the board. Rahal and Shapiro too.

[esrec]

Minneapolis is a just a short flight away from NY area. Do talk to Ron Shapiro, he is superb with hairlines , which is what you really need . I was in a similar boat as you back in 2004 , and he did solid work on the hairline that has stood the test of time.

 

Dr Feller is bang on with his comments . You are still young (in my book, and I am 40) and still balding. It is possible you may progress to a higher NW level in your mid 40s as the transplant (FUE or FUT) will "pull forward" the loss of any already thinning front scalp / mid scalp hair , via "shock loss" . This is something that does not get as much attention but is very important if you are transplanting around or between existing hair.

 

If you go the FUE route , you may get instant gratification in terms of having some hairline and no scar . But heaven forbid , if you end up as a NW5 or 6, you will kick yourself for not better saving your donor area .

 

As others have said, i would also go for a higher # of grafts -- 2500 at the minimum to focus on the frontal scalp and hairline.

 

Really appreciate the candor. Super helpful. I didnt know much about Shapiro but I will add him to list. I think I've been a victim of loyalty to one physician who Im finding skews conservatively (which I dont care about with results) but added feedback from the board and docs will make this easier.

 

Can you describe the scarring/sensation? How long until you felt pretty good? I have a good tolerance for pain and most tell me its not bad. Scar I can hind.

 

But, I do rely heavily on masking agents and will until some hair comes in. I can take a month off if I need to.

[esrec]

He has no financial ties with Dr B, only Dr Lindsay and Dr Blake.

 

lol how do you guys know this stuff?

[esrec]

Rahal does both, but definitely go with FUT with him. If you elect FUE, then go with Erdogan, Lorenzo, or Feriduni - all in Europe.

 

Just look at the pictures of his patients - his hairlines are unmatched and he will densly pack it along with the middle. People say he is very aggresive with the grafts on the hairline, so consider that. Regardless, I think you would have a tough time choosing between Rahal, Hasson, or Ron Shapiro

 

 

Saw you mentioned Hasson but not Wong, or are you just referencing the practice? Wasnt sure if they worked together which specialized. Sounds like these are the "feel good, no brainer" options based on feedback.

 

Also, what is your response to the doctors who say they are finding equivalent yield/quality and ability to cherry pick individual hairs with FUE has leveled the playing field in their practice? Dr James Harris in particular feels strongly on this.

[1978matt]

Also, what is your response to the doctors who say they are finding equivalent yield/quality and ability to cherry pick individual hairs with FUE has leveled the playing field in their practice? Dr James Harris in particular feels strongly on this.

 

Ask them how they came to this conclusion. Do they count all the grafts that grew post-operatively? Tell them you require this info in writing so you can post it on a forum and use the information in court if your transplant fails. I think they will get very nervous just as Dr Harris did when he removed his post.

 

Cherry picking is just another marketing spin that's put on the FUE procedure. You cannot see below the skin surface. A 'single' could actually have two dormant follicles next to it. One of these might be retained as the punch is driven into the skin, whereas another may be decapitated or buried.

 

It is possible to seek out 3-4 hair grafts but that is more about trying to maximise the success of each FUE attempt.

[Joesocks202]

Feller is defintely at the top his game. To call him second tier is a bit out there. But for each his own I guess. I've looked at his patient's photos and met a few in his office and they are unbelievably good. He even showed me a patient being done having the procedure. At first I didn't want to see but the curiosity got the best of me. But it was really clean and really packed tight. It looked like his paitent had a buzzed haircut. Dr. Feller showed me his before picture and I already couldn't believe it was the same guy, he had a new hairline just installed.

 

Dr. Rahal is good but his hairlines all look the same to me and almost all his patients look the same. Fat black hairs. Feller has a much wider selection and does not push the hairline so far forward. I also have not read of any failed patient's growth with Feller where I have with Dr. Rahal.

 

The FUT is the right way to start your hair restoration plan. The scar is nothing and I've seen that for myself.

[Joesocks202]

Ask them how they came to this conclusion. Do they count all the grafts that grew post-operatively? Tell them you require this info in writing so you can post it on a forum and use the information in court if your transplant fails. I think they will get very nervous just as Dr Harris did when he removed his post.

 

Cherry picking is just another marketing spin that's put on the FUE procedure. You cannot see below the skin surface. A 'single' could actually have two dormant follicles next to it. One of these might be retained as the punch is driven into the skin, whereas another may be decapitated or buried.

 

It is possible to seek out 3-4 hair grafts but that is more about trying to maximise the success of each FUE attempt.

 

I spoke with Dr. Feller in depth about FUE and he showed me how its done and what is done and there is no question but that FUE procedure is very very hard on the graft tissue. I can see why he's worried about the growth after the procedure.He has even invented instruments for it so I believe he knows what he's talking about. I would rather have a better frontal growth yield then worry about a thin scar under my hair in the back. I think some of these guys are probably very young and want to believe they can have it all.

[Joesocks202]

Here is a recent good FUE result with no strip scar.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173759-2-781-grafts-dr-diep-11.html

 

There are great FUE results and great FUT results out there. FUT might get you a bit better yield but you are contending with a scar that may or may not become problematic. Also down time is longer. With FUE youll be fine in a month.

 

You have thick hair. I think you can get away with FUE from a great doctor like Lorenzo. 2500 grafts.

 

No offense but this guy has most of his hair and the front where his transplants were put looks spaced out and sparse. Just like some of the other FUE cases I've been seeing. So now he will need another one. For so many grafts I would have thought he would be thicker. I wouldn't be happy if I got this result. Hopefully he has enough of his donor area left to take more to fill up inbetween those hairs.

[Melvin- Admin]

No offense but this guy has most of his hair and the front where his transplants were put looks spaced out and sparse. Just like some of the other FUE cases I've been seeing. So now he will need another one. For so many grafts I would have thought he would be thicker. I wouldn't be happy if I got this result. Hopefully he has enough of his donor area left to take more to fill up inbetween those hairs.

 

What are you talking about, his hairline was lowered, so there was essentially zero hair where he has hair now, I think his result are fantastic considering his hairloss, by Dr. Fellers own admission he stated 3,000 grafts FUT would be appropriate for OP who's hairloss is less than this guys. His before and after is impressive as hell.

 

 

 

 

[mav23100gunther]

Saw you mentioned Hasson but not Wong, or are you just referencing the practice? Wasnt sure if they worked together which specialized. Sounds like these are the "feel good, no brainer" options based on feedback.

 

Also, what is your response to the doctors who say they are finding equivalent yield/quality and ability to cherry pick individual hairs with FUE has leveled the playing field in their practice? Dr James Harris in particular feels strongly on this.

 

Yes, both Hasson and Wong are both outstanding, but I would go with Dr Hasson. If you were going with just the crown, then Dr Wong is the better bet, but for Harline, and midsection I would choose Dr Hasson. When you consult with H&W make sure you specifically ask for Dr Hasson.

 

Cherry picking made sense to me at one point, but it's actually a myth, as when doing strip, if you want more singles, you can always cut doubles or triples into singles, whilst when doing FUE you actually can't always tell whether what seems like a single may be a double with one of the grafts in the dormant phase. If you can live with the linier scar (I can) there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest FUE produces better yield and greater lifetime grafts then FUT, whilst FUT is proven, and is the safer option. HTsoon and Seth are going to come onto this thread and tell you otherwise, but I am a FUT fan only because you aren't risking yield than with FUE, and it provides a greater number of lifetime grafts. I want to maximize every single last graft over my lifetime.

[mav23100gunther]

lol how do you guys know this stuff?

 

It's been disclosed on his own website and throughout this forum.

[mav23100gunther]

Feller is defintely at the top his game. To call him second tier is a bit out there. But for each his own I guess. I've looked at his patient's photos and met a few in his office and they are unbelievably good. He even showed me a patient being done having the procedure. At first I didn't want to see but the curiosity got the best of me. But it was really clean and really packed tight. It looked like his paitent had a buzzed haircut. Dr. Feller showed me his before picture and I already couldn't believe it was the same guy, he had a new hairline just installed.

 

Dr. Rahal is good but his hairlines all look the same to me and almost all his patients look the same. Fat black hairs. Feller has a much wider selection and does not push the hairline so far forward. I also have not read of any failed patient's growth with Feller where I have with Dr. Rahal.

 

The FUT is the right way to start your hair restoration plan. The scar is nothing and I've seen that for myself.

 

Only go back and do a search on Dr Feller's own forum posts and you will sera couple of failed Feller procedures, so your statement is completely false. I do agree Dr Feller is a very good surgeon, and probably the best in New York in my opinion, however, I don't think he is in the same class as Shapiro, Hasson, Rahal, and Feriduni.

[mav23100gunther]

What are you talking about, his hairline was lowered, so there was essentially zero hair where he has hair now, I think his result are fantastic considering his hairloss, by Dr. Fellers own admission he stated 3,000 grafts FUT would be appropriate for OP who's hairloss is less than this guys. His before and after is impressive as hell.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the harline was lowered too much, solid result though

[MrGio-WHTCClinic]

Esrec,

 

You want FUE with a clinic that has treated patients with similar goals as yours. FUT is certainly more invasive and seems to be more inconsistent with your goals. Not every patient gets a less than 3mm wide strip scar. You'll have less trouble healing with FUE. In any surgery, there will be scarring but the scarring may be less visible in the right conditions. The instruments, techniques, skill set, experience, competence, and training may still be factors in your potential to heal and yield.

 

You are not overthinking this whole matter and you have realistic expectations; gainful insight is golden. Don't base you decision on whether a particular clinic or doctor tell you everything that you want to hear.

 

Great job, thanks for sharing.

[fortune11]

Really appreciate the candor. Super helpful. I didnt know much about Shapiro but I will add him to list. I think I've been a victim of loyalty to one physician who Im finding skews conservatively (which I dont care about with results) but added feedback from the board and docs will make this easier.

 

Can you describe the scarring/sensation? How long until you felt pretty good? I have a good tolerance for pain and most tell me its not bad. Scar I can hind.

 

But, I do rely heavily on masking agents and will until some hair comes in. I can take a month off if I need to.

 

The scar will heal within 2 weeks but the numbness will stick around for months , the first 2 times healing was faster , my third strip recovery was longer.

 

If you are worried about concealment, I was able to go back to work within 1 week. I just had to grow my hair long , over the scar.

 

Scarring was a big issue back in the day when transplants routinely failed and people were stuck w bad hair and couldn't shave down . Now , in the hands of a competent surgeon, risk of FUT failure is negligible. Coupled w meds, you will have a very good outcome regardless of FUT or FUE. Don't worry about it . Just pick the right surgeon.

[esrec]

Esrec,

 

You want FUE with a clinic that has treated patients with similar goals as yours. FUT is certainly more invasive and seems to be more inconsistent with your goals. Not every patient gets a less than 3mm wide strip scar. You'll have less trouble healing with FUE. In any surgery, there will be scarring but the scarring may be less visible in the right conditions. The instruments, techniques, skill set, experience, competence, and training may still be factors in your potential to heal and yield.

 

You are not overthinking this whole matter and you have realistic expectations; gainful insight is golden. Don't base you decision on whether a particular clinic or doctor tell you everything that you want to hear.

 

Great job, thanks for sharing.

 

Can you elaborate? Seems that you feel strongly about this. Outcome--hair quality and density is my # 1 priority. My hair is long so aesthetic recovery would be quicker with FUT but of course I would love to avoid a scar--just not at expense of results. This is my dilemma. Do you represent Dr. Mwamba?

[esrec]

Minneapolis is a just a short flight away from NY area. Do talk to Ron Shapiro, he is superb with hairlines , which is what you really need . I was in a similar boat as you back in 2004 , and he did solid work on the hairline that has stood the test of time.

 

Dr Feller is bang on with his comments . You are still young (in my book, and I am 40) and still balding. It is possible you may progress to a higher NW level in your mid 40s as the transplant (FUE or FUT) will "pull forward" the loss of any already thinning front scalp / mid scalp hair , via "shock loss" . This is something that does not get as much attention but is very important if you are transplanting around or between existing hair.

 

If you go the FUE route , you may get instant gratification in terms of having some hairline and no scar . But heaven forbid , if you end up as a NW5 or 6, you will kick yourself for not better saving your donor area .

 

As others have said, i would also go for a higher # of grafts -- 2500 at the minimum to focus on the frontal scalp and hairline.

 

I need to thank you personally for this recommendation. I have a consult tomorrow. I've had a few since (will provide an update) and Ron Shapiro comes up every single time.

[Stig]

I need to thank you personally for this recommendation. I have a consult tomorrow. I've had a few since (will provide an update) and Ron Shapiro comes up every single time.

 

What did Dr Wong tell you? I'l be honest, you had me worried at one point when you were going on about Dr B, glad you have moved on from him!

[esrec]

What did Dr Wong tell you? I'l be honest, you had me worried at one point when you were going on about Dr B, glad you have moved on from him!

 

I've since moved on. My List is Now Dr. Shapiro, Konior, Dr. Wong. Will have euro consults too for balanced perspective.

 

Dr. Wong also quoted me 2000-2500 depending on a closer glance. Said I was a solid candidate for either but given goals of max density/hair quality FUT, my hair length, and goal to keep up appearanes, FUT quicker aesthetic turnaround. He was great. Very calm, confident and balanced. I think most of my concerns around FUT were not actual scarring, but recovery time and use of agents to get back on my feet and keep up appearances while I healed. He and others have minimized these concerns.

 

Will do full write up tomorrow but definitely looking forward to Dr. Ron feedback. His work on hairlines (specifically what I need is inspiring)

 

Lastly, Konior is very intriguing. Big fan of his personal touch on everything. Our dialogue has only been email right now but his tone and approach is super meticulous. Downside is longer wait times. But first really good vibe I felt. His asst is fantastic too.

 

As of now I have holds with both Dr. Wong and Dr. Shapiro for Sept 29th.

[Stig]

I've since moved on. My List is Now Dr. Shapiro, Konior, Dr. Wong. Will have euro consults too for balanced perspective.

 

Dr. Wong also quoted me 2000-2500 depending on a closer glance. Said I was a solid candidate for either but given goals of max density/hair quality FUT, my hair length, and goal to keep up appearanes, FUT quicker aesthetic turnaround. He was great. Very calm, confident and balanced. I think most of my concerns around FUT were not actual scarring, but recovery time and use of agents to get back on my feet and keep up appearances while I healed. He and others have minimized these concerns.

 

Will do full write up tomorrow but definitely looking forward to Dr. Ron feedback. His work on hairlines (specifically what I need is inspiring)

 

Lastly, Konior is very intriguing. Big fan of his personal touch on everything. Our dialogue has only been email right now but his tone and approach is super meticulous. Downside is longer wait times. But first really good vibe I felt. His asst is fantastic too.

 

As of now I have holds with both Dr. Wong and Dr. Shapiro for Sept 29th.

 

Can I recommend adding Dr Rahal to your list? His hairlines are best on the planet. If it's the hairlines you are after - then Rahal, Shapiro and Feriduni produce the best.

[esrec]

Can I recommend adding Dr Rahal to your list? His hairlines are best on the planet. If it's the hairlines you are after - then Rahal, Shapiro and Feriduni produce the best.

 

Ok I will add him.

 

Do these guys have any different reputation when it comes to the incision / closing of wound to make for quicker heal time / reduced scarring? I dont want to overthink here, but scar isnt issue for me, turnaround time is. I have a month to work with for recovery. Masking agents to be used once back on feet. Wong told me 3 weeks, Konior told me 10-14 days, Ill likely just wait full month.