Heartbroken and mental breakdown...that is what all i have to say

[delancey]

I don't understand why such a small amount of grafts were transplanted in the first place. The major benefit of having FUT is that it allows you to get more lifetime grafts. So why in the world would the doctor only do around 2000 grafts in one session via FUT on a NW6 patient? The patient clearly has a lot of real-estate to cover, and the honest/most effective approach should have been to get as many grafts as possible without compromising yield.

 

This is also a lot of money for just 2000 grafts. Now the patient is out of lots of money, has a FUT scar and poor yield. One can argue that the patient has a lot of real-estate to cover, but that brings me back to my first question: Why did the doctor agree to do so few grafts on a NW6 patient?

 

Wait 12 months, grow your hair out (although I doubt it will make much of a difference). Then, if nothing has changed, ask for a full refund. Good luck!

[KO]

He noted in his original thread that budget was the reason. That being said, it is not that an small amount of grafts. It is likely just the first step.

 

In any case, if yield was not going to be high, it's good that more grafts were not transplanted.

[mikeey]

As soon as a Doctor is Recommended here , I have Observed 2 things :

 

The Prices go Up ... often giving the citation that "Oh everything is getting Expensive "

and there is a Sudden Boom in the Business Following the Recommendation . which a "FEW" surgeons (Not All) take advantage and try to Run Multiple Procedures .

 

And then Their so called REP. of the Clinic will come along here if he sees anyone is Unhappy .... and boom he will give Long Manuscripts about this and that and this Result and That ..... WHO CARES ? The Person who has had a blotched Procedure is the One who is suffering , Not the Doctor .... and soon everyone forgets everything (except the poor guy ) and Life is as Usual at the Clinic , which deliberately Post a Few Good Results .... from the Own Hired People who Post under different Names on such Reputed Forums , because these GUYS Know that everyone is Reading .

 

Recently this was Observed in the case of some guy whose Name I do not remember from a Fue surgeon from India .

[Cryingoutloud]

I find that more often than not, there is predictable move to rally around the surgeon with the time-honoured line, "Dr. X will stand behind his results. Give it 18 months, you're most likely a slow grower" or "Did you follow the post-op instructions to the letter? Did you smoke? Did you stand on one leg facing east while chanting Hare Krishna each full moon?"

 

It's as if the surgeon can do no wrong. If it's a great result, the surgeon gets the praise for his artistry and attention to detail; if it's a donkey, it's "patient physiology" or error.

 

No quibble refunds need to become far more widespread when there are failures as dramatic and irrefutable as this one. At least allow the guy try to get some joy elsewhere because he's the one who has to suffer

[Spanker]

I find that more often than not, there is predictable move to rally around the surgeon with the time-honoured line, "Dr. X will stand behind his results. Give it 18 months, you're most likely a slow grower" or "Did you follow the post-op instructions to the letter? Did you smoke? Did you stand on one leg facing east while chanting Hare Krishna each full moon?"

 

It's as if the surgeon can do no wrong. If it's a great result, the surgeon gets the praise for his artistry and attention to detail; if it's a donkey, it's "patient physiology" or error.

 

No quibble refunds need to become far more widespread when there are failures as dramatic and irrefutable as this one. At least allow the guy try to get some joy elsewhere because he's the one who has to suffer

 

The problem with no quibble refunds is that will be a portion of unreasonable patients. Those who have very good outcomes who can't be satisfied (not saying this guy falls into the category). A patient may say, "I can only afford 2k grafts and I'm ok with a lightly covered area." Doctor says ok, even though 4k are needed for that "wow" result. Next thing you know the doctor is defending himself on htn.

 

 

I do believe that the doctor will stand by the patient, let's see his response. I'm sure that admin will reach out to him. Growing it out and combing it, and then judging it for the number of grafts transplanted is the only fair was to judge the case. Docs are blasted for showing wet pre ops and dry post ops, we should ask unhappy patients try create post ops in a fair manner too. I agree that things aren't looking that well now and I hope the pt sees some growth and maturation in the next few months. Looks like he may have had some further loss or shock loss. I don't have great expectations for the case at this point (due to loss, low grafts vs area, and possible growth) but there it's just not enough length or hair, which is a major part of hair mass (or time) to throw down the gavel and say case closed.

 

Like I said, I feel very confident that Dr. Gabel will take care of this patient when a fair pre op/ post op comparison is made and his 12 months are reached. In the years I've been active, I've never seen him do anything dodgey or unethical. Let's see this play out.

[Alliswell]

Well... Dr. Gabel called me yesterday. I am kind of upset to learn from that he is upset and worried on what i wrote.

 

To begin with, i never had/will have the intention of taking him down or hunting his reputation. I know the kind of qualified surgeon he is, his efficiency and caliber. As i stated in my first thread, it took 1.5 yrs for me to conclude that i really need an HT but it took two weeks to figure out that he is the man i need to go. My choice of words or mode of conveying might be wrong but i JUST wanted to express my pain, frustration and sorrow out here....and not, in any means, to raise my voice against him. I am a rare case, as it seems, and trashing a pro like him just because of my case would be a great blunder.

 

 

And yes...he was very careful, very patient and attentive with me till i was there and assured that he will be with me throughout. I was kind of embarrassed when he stated that refund or money is not a big deal for him...shows how much he is devoted to his profession. But this poor soul has no way to burst out anywhere other than here. I am going to wait for 2 years (another 15 months left) as per his words and then take a call.

 

No more lamenting on this...if i am to grow well, i will. If otherwise, let it be. As i will be under his care, i do believe that it will only turn out good.

[Alliswell]

Alliswell,

 

I'm very sorry to read that you are so despondent after your hair transplant. This does seem like a small number of grafts give the area covered. But, in comparing your pre-op pics with your 9 month results, I agree that you should have seen more significant growth by now. However, I also agree with the excellent advice Spanker has given you, "grow it out, wait 12 months and then post photos." Though you may not like how it looks, you'll need longer hair in order to make a true comparison. Also, you still have some months of growth and maturation to come. Despite the views of some alarmists, this wait time is not a smokescreen. Patients can see significant improvements up to 18 months post-op.

 

As I'm sure anyone that frequents this community knows, Dr. Gabel is not only one of the best hair transplant surgeons practicing today, but he is also very caring and concerned. No I know that he will do whatever he can to ensure your happiness but I recommend that you try and maintain open and positive commutation with the clinic.

 

I will contact Dr. Gabel to make him aware of this post and ask him to contact you privately as well as post a response here. I also encourage you to reach out to him via phone. Ultimately, I hope you get the results you deserve.

 

Dr. Gabel actually suggested 3500 grafts but as i had cited earlier, i restricted it to below 2500 for economical reasons.

 

My plan was to have a second session to cover up for the remaining grafts and additional coverage...probably in a span of 2 years.

 

And since i am a slow healer, i ain't even sticking to the thumb rule of 6 months-40%, 7 months-50%. My pt was...had the area been atleast covered i.e hairs have sprouted out, i would have been much much happier. I know it will grow longer and thicker as the days pass by.

[Alliswell]

My advice would be to grow it out, wait 12 months and then post photos. You'll need to start growing it out now for your 12 month comparison. You'll also need to realize that you only received 2300 grafts in a large area. I received close to that in my hairline alone, so any expectations of a crazy dense result may have been doomed from the beginning. Grow it out and see where you are at in a few months. That will give a fair comparison.

 

Agree..relatively less grafts for the area to e covered. And i am not onto minox, fin etc due to side effects. But extending the same, i wasn't/ain't expecting GREAT results. I am realistic.

 

Let me grow it out as you said and see how WELL its gonna turn out in 12 months...3 more months to go

[Alliswell]

I am very sorry to hear about this. I do believe that you are entitled to a full refund and I do hope that the moderators will get in contact with the clinic in order to reach a conclusion. What is your donor density like?

 

Out of curiosity,

 

Are you a smoker?

 

My donor is extremely strong, thick and healthy...even know.

 

And i quit smoking 4 years back.

[Alliswell]

The surgery stuff...

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174344-2371-grafts-dr-steven-gabel-feb-19th.html

[Cryingoutloud]

I'm still baffled by this "wait 2 years". That's an awfully long time to wait for a result. What does your surgeon base that on?

 

Trust me, bro . . . get the ball rolling on that refund and DON'T be embarrassed or ashamed for one second. If you haven't got any significant growth after NINE MONTHS, you ain't gonna miraculously start growing in month 12 or 13.

 

You didn't bad mouth Dr. Gabel so I can't imagine why he's upset; as far as I could tell, you just expressed your deep and understandable disappointment and frustration with what looks like a donkey of a result.

 

Get your money

Get another surgeon

Get sorted

[Steven Gabel, MD, FACS]

I apologize that I have not commented on this thread until now. I only thought it was appropriate that I speak to the patient first, then comment on the thread.

 

First and foremost, I am very concerned about this patient and every patient that I operate on. It is my goal to always obtain the results that were expected and we thoroughly discussed during the consultation process. I would never take on a case or perform surgery on a patient if I though that I would not obtain the results we were expecting, or if I thought they had a process in which there was a contraindication for surgery. If medical treatment is necessary, or a biopsy is needed to confirm a diagnosis, I will always go the medical route before offering surgery. It happens very often those patients who were offered surgeries elsewhere come to me and I make a diagnosis that would have made them a nonsurgical candidate.

 

As I stated, I spoke to the patient for about 45 minutes yesterday and we had a very good conversation. He certainly expressed his thoughts, and I was able to express mine, both in a very respectable manner. Given my doctor-patient relationship with this patient, I will not go into specifics other then to say that I will stand by this patient and do whatever is necessary to make the outcome the best for both of us. Anytime this patient had a concern when he was living in Portland, we addressed it in a very timely fashion and my “open door” policy was always in affect; in fact, in the 6 months that he was here, he desired and came in at least once or twice a month for check ups and to have any questions answered.

 

I do want to address one issue that I did speak to him about and that is something he wrote here so I feel I can comment on: I never told the patient not to read the internet or the forums. I am a sponsor of this site so that would make me a total hypocrite if I did that. I direct many of my patients to this site so they are able to get a sense of what others have experienced during their hair restoration process. There is a ton of excellent material on this site and other sites; however, I do caution all of my patients to be careful of what they perceive as “truth” as not everything that is written on the Internet is fact. Also, each patient has a unique set of circumstances so what is good for one patient may not be good for someone else. I do my best to recommend therapy that has been proven successful in the peer-reviewed medical literature. When patients tell me that they read about some treatment, lotion, or pill that I know has not been proven to be helpful in hair restoration, I don’t discourage its use (unless it will be harmful to them), but I tell them to be careful about it as it may not do anything for their hair.

 

I hope this clears some of the air and I will be in contact with this patient and monitor his progress (in fact, we have a Skype call scheduled for this Saturday). It is also a fact that some patients take longer to obtain their results then others, and I hope people on the forums will respect my long-standing expertise and judgment as a hair restoration physician as we allow time for this patient’s results to come full circle.

[aaron602]

I feel like two thirds of the reccommended surgeons here on this forum should be dropped. Its disgusting that some surgeons are still reccomended here even after extremely unethical practices.

Its unfair how society prefers money over proper ethics

[aaron602]

This is ridiculous.

i concur.

My doctor also said that the info provided on this forum is false.

Your doctor shouldnt be allowed to post to the forum he is cocurrently trying to silence

Edited November 26, 2014 by aaron602

[GBU]

To Alliswell, you made the right decision and you are not going to find a better doctor . The other posters on here have been giving you bad advice and I am proud of you that you ignored it .

I am an older guy and don't believe in being disrespectful or blaming all doctors for a bad past experience like other posters here . You chose a great doctor . Stay with him and be well .

[Number47]

2 years is a long time, maybe things will get better but since you stopped the hairloss medication i don't see how any spectacular change can come from just 2000 grafts in such a large area.

[aaron602]

To Alliswell, you made the right decision and you are not going to find a better doctor . The other posters on here have been giving you bad advice and I am proud of you that you ignored it .

I am an older guy and don't believe in being disrespectful or blaming all doctors for a bad past experience like other posters here . You chose a great doctor . Stay with him and be well .

 

Why should he risk wasting more of his money on the same doctor which made him worse off than he was before he even had the surgery?

You call that good advice?

What would you say if he had a similar outcome a 2nd time around with gabel?

The same advice?

Im not implying gabel is a bad doc

But he needs to go elsewhere

Its common sense

No offense towards gabel

Edited November 26, 2014 by aaron602

[hadenough2014]

To Alliswell, you made the right decision and you are not going to find a better doctor . The other posters on here have been giving you bad advice and I am proud of you that you ignored it .

I am an older guy and don't believe in being disrespectful or blaming all doctors for a bad past experience like other posters here . You chose a great doctor . Stay with him and be well .

 

I generally agree. This doc has a very good reputation on this forum and I think some respect and time is needed. I am not saying I agree with 2 more years, but certainly give it a 3-6 more months to see what growth progress occurs. I can appreciate Alliswell's frustration and I can only pray that I do not have to wait so long for growth. I give the doc credit for staying on top of it and coming on here to demonstrate his concern for the patient. It is only fair that he can professionally post something out here to clarify comments or misunderstandings without getting specific about his patient.

 

This forum and community is too important not to allow fair and professional dialogue from both patients and Dr.s. Ultimately the Dr. and his patient will be the ones to work this out, so a lot of noise from us bystanders can just be inflammatory.

[Steven Gabel, MD, FACS]

I feel like two thirds of the reccommended surgeons here on this forum should be dropped. Its disgusting that some surgeons are still reccomended here even after extremely unethical practices.

Its unfair how society prefers money over proper ethics

 

Excuse me? Can you please elaborate on your definition of unethical practices that you are accusing 2/3 of the recommended physicians of?

[aaron602]

Im not trying to upset you dr.

 

I just dont think a majority of docs reccomended here are close to achieving the same results as the top 1/3 of docs reccomended here, whats most important is the happiness and the future happiness of each patient that comes here in search of the very best docs that can provide each individual with the most optimal result possible, while at the same time giving those patients the highest probability of succesfully achieving those optimal results.

 

Therefore i think there needs to be a narrowing of the coalation surgeons, listing only the best of the best.

 

This is just my honest opinion not ment to offend any doctor.

 

Im just purely standing up for future patients

 

Having a failed surgery can be mentally and physically damaging to the individuall, and the extent of the damage can be unexpectedly severely traumatic.

 

No offense intended towards anyone on this forum patients or doctors.

I just feel inclined to do whats right after suffering a traumatic ht, by giving my opinion on changes that i think will make a positive impact on future patients livelyhood

Im sorry to everyone ive offended it was not my intent

I respect everyone here

Edited November 26, 2014 by aaron602

[Spanker]

Why should he risk wasting more of his money on the same doctor which made him worse off than he was before he even had the surgery?

You call that good advice?

What would you say if he had a similar outcome a 2nd time around with gabel?

The same terrible advice?

Im not implying gabel is a bad doc

But he needs to go elsewhere

Its common sense

 

You really have no idea what you are talking about. 1. You don't know what the outcome or yield will be. 2. You don't know that it would cost him a dime if the growth isn't good. 3. Dr. Gabel has proven results and is one of a handful of docs that I would trust after over 4 years of research. 4. You have implied that the doctor practices unethically and should be dropped, and if that's not true then why did you post that in this thread? 5. You act like surgery is the same thing as painting a car, like there are no variables or underlying factors.

 

The patient is satisfied to wait it out and trust one of the top docs out there. Why would he go to someone else?

 

One of the admins, David, decided he didn't quite get out of his first surgery what he had bored for, stuck it out with the same doc and ended up happy.

 

Seriously, I really don't know why docs (in any field) are docs. Somebody with an arm chair degree is always waiting in the wings to sum you up in one case. My advice, be an engineer.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Spanker

[aaron602]

Im not accusing anyone in particular but rather generalizing based on patient feedback.

[aaron602]

I never mentioned dr gabel in any of my posts on this thread. I was generallizing.

Ive seen good results from gabel.

It seems that the patients physiollogy didnt work well in gabels hands, judging off the pics the patient posted.

So imo hed have better luck going somewhere else, that is all, not trying to offend anyone here.

 

Sorry for offending you spanker that was not my intention.

I just wanted to help the patient

[Number47]

Excuse me? Can you please elaborate on your definition of unethical practices that you are accusing 2/3 of the recommended physicians of?

 

Any info on the case at hand? I saw that you proposed almost double the amount of grafts for this area but the patient didn't have the money and in the end only 2000 were transplanted. Do you think is because of that the result looks so minimal or there might be low yield? Do you feel stopping the meds has something to do with what we see?

[KO]

Dr Gabel, could you please comment on your recommendation to wait 2 years? Is this typically what you advise your patients who are seeing slow growth?