Senior Member spitfire uk Posted October 16, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 16, 2014 Help a brother out guys , I'm going round and round in circles ..... i can't decide if i need motorized or manual extraction when i see Dr Doganay , i speak to several great guys in private on here and some say one and the others say the second option ....it's for a 1000 grafts into the crown . All thoughts welcome. I've read Mickeys fantastic guide but still struggling to decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member aaron602 Posted October 17, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2014 Manual, no doubts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted October 18, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2014 UK, I know we discussed this before, but I wanted to share some thoughts publicly: I'm a fan of manual FUE. I've spoken to dozens of talented FUE physicians over the years, and the consensus seems to be the same: manual extraction methods - particularly with sharp punches - provide important physiological feedback that is not only difficult to appreciate with motorized tools, but is also important for keeping transection low and achieving good yield. In my humble opinion, sharp manual punches in the hands of a trained, dedicated FUE doctor are ideal. However, I follow this up with an important caveat: FUE extraction devices are simply tools; despite some claims made by automated/largely motorized devices, the results of an FUE procedure come down to the skill of the transplant team. If the doctor is good with the tool he/she uses, the result will likely be good as well. However, even the most sophisticated tool will not make up for a lack of experience or produce solid results on its own in the hands of a novice. Following this logic, I always say the following: if the doctor is well versed and experienced with a certain tool, despite possible drawbacks of the device, that is probably the one you want him/her using. I think manual devices are ideal, but I wouldn't recommend switching from motorized to manual with a doctor who utilizes manual in 98% of his/her cases and produces solid results. Does this make sense? "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member fisher4man Posted October 18, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2014 Agree, but Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Erdoğan's, (and many others including the beginners of FUE) nurses use motorized extraction devices. Never any doctor involves in that part of FUE. Doesn't they produce solid results either? Same equipment, almost the same technique, considering extraction process performed by skilled hands, regardles by doctor or by technician, manual FUE seems to be a good way of marketing and more profitable business. Does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member KO Posted October 18, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2014 ^Lorenzo is manual, and Erdogan's account is ASMEDMANUALFUE....so....I would guess he is manual too. 3382 FUE Lupanzula http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185463-3382-grafts-lupanzula.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Lateatnight Posted October 18, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted October 18, 2014 Agree, but Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Erdoğan's, (and many others including the beginners of FUE) nurses use motorized extraction devices. Never any doctor involves in that part of FUE. Doesn't they produce solid results either? Same equipment, almost the same technique, considering extraction process performed by skilled hands, regardles by doctor or by technician, manual FUE seems to be a good way of marketing and more profitable business. Does this make sense? Don't know Feriduni, but Lorenzo and Erdogan do exclusively pure manual FUE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted October 18, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Fisher, I'm not following. Like LateNight and KO said, several of those doctors use manual techniques. What's more, I don't agree with the idea that it's a marketing ploy or a way to increase profits. Frankly, it's the opposite; usually, clinics that buy the newest, automated tools feature the devices heavily in marketing campaigns. Furthermore, the more automated the device, the easier it is to perform multiple procedures, and the easier it may be to increase volume. This is in stark contrast to manual techniques; these are, in my opinion, not very "sexy" in an advertisement sense, and significantly increase the length of a procedure. Edited October 19, 2014 by Future_HT_Doc "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 19, 2014 Agree, but Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Erdoğan's, (and many others including the beginners of FUE) nurses use motorized extraction devices. Never any doctor involves in that part of FUE. Doesn't they produce solid results either? Feriduni is manual as well so your entire paragraph is incorrect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member lifeisbeautiful Posted October 20, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would go ahead with manuel if there isnt a big price difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member spitfire uk Posted October 20, 2014 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would go ahead with manuel if there isnt a big price difference. About 500 gbp more expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member kamalmalik Posted October 20, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 As a person looking for a cheap HT, I am trying to avoid any extra costs as much as possible so I wouldnt go ahead with manuel. I am also not convinced that there is a significant difference with regards to results between motorized and manuel extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted October 20, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 I also agree that it really comes down to the skill of the surgeon and their proficiencies with whatever instruments they use whether they be sharp punches or the motorized tool. From my observation, there are more surgeons that use manual FUE for a whole number of reasons with control over transection being the primary concern. Control with the effects of torsion, traction, compression, dermal depth, and desiccation are other factors that are critical during the extraction process. I also favor manual methods when FUE is being initially learned by the surgeon. It is also true that there are more and more techs learning and performing the extraction process...:rolleyes: Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member fisher4man Posted October 20, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 Fisher, I'm not following. Like LateNight and KO said, several of those doctors use manual techniques. What's more, I don't agree with the idea that it's a marketing ploy or a way to increase profits. Frankly, it's the opposite; usually, clinics that buy the newest, automated tools feature the devices heavily in marketing campaigns. Furthermore, the more automated the device, the easier it is to perform multiple procedures, and the easier it may be to increase volume. This is in stark contrast to manual techniques; these are, in my opinion, not very "sexy" in an advertisement sense, and significantly increase the length of a procedure. Sorry Blake, but my comment derived from the opinions of one of the most respectful HT physicians of this community. Quote from Dr.Bigem or Dr.AEK? the manual punch doctors have succeeded in marketing their technique better than the motorized. Do you think that you know better than a doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member fisher4man Posted October 20, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 KO guess, lateatnight do not know, me incorrect. Harris use motorized, Umar and/or H&S tries to sell motorized/robotic machines to his colleagues.........Konior tries to change his technique from FUT to FUE (manual or motorized?) It seems FUE doctors use manual, but their nurses use motorized for extraction. Almost all FUE doctors left the graft extraction to their nurses, proved by Erdogan's, Feriduni's, Doganay's threads by the hair loss sufferers treated by them. I guess Erdogan even left the channel opening step to his senior nurse, Delek. Maras have already done too. Feriduni?, possibly. Others will leave in soon time, it seems. I don't know but I anticipate. All we sure that up to now, implantation is always done by nurses. Reliable information. Just we can sure that FUT surgeons remove the strip and close the wound. But who opens the channels? How can we be sure that if it is the case that doc. opens a few channels and then the nurse completes the channels? :)I think we must plant hidden cameras to the HT clinics just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mikeey Posted October 20, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 20, 2014 I think its imp. for the doctor to open the channels , and the angle and depths are not to be flawed , its a serious matter ..... even in the olden days the implantation was done by the surgeon himself ,,,,,, Nurses and techs are good .... BUT THEY are NOT REAL Degree Holding DOCTORS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted October 21, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) I suspect what the doctors think about the matter, what the doctors do about the matter, and what they say to their patients about the matter are often quite different things. I'm not trying to say docs are duplicitous or manipulative creatures - their integrity is something I cannot judge, and I am in no position to quibble with it in the normal day-to-day stuff. But think about this. A manual FUE doc performing exclusively FUE might pull out 4000-5000 grafts a week, which pretty much means a million grafts over ten years. What sort of state would you expect the ligaments/tendons (whatever - go ask a doc) in his fingers and wrists to be in? Also, you have to expect that they watch each other - that they know what the 'other guys' do, and that there is a good deal of respect, despite the rivalry, between medicos for a start, and a certain amount of respect among clinic proprietors, if only because they are competing in the same market, with the same traps and tribulations etc. - who knows, the same accountants, the same off-shore accounts? I've paid for certain docs on the basis of their skills, as I could see them. Fifteen minutes later, the very same docs have told me that so-and-so technicians will perform 'x' or 'y' on me because, 'Frankly, they're better than me!' Wow, how ironic. The machines will probably become more prominent, but there are some fuzzy legal areas re. techs performing extractions. Remember only a doc is allowed to break the skin? (Go tell the ear piercer down the mall that, or your local tattoo dude!) Edited October 21, 2014 by scar5 spell and I suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted October 21, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 21, 2014 Although the extractions in FUE are being performed more and more by the techs, the recipient incisions are almost always done by the surgeon. This is the area where the angulations, hairline design, and other artistry skills are demonstrated the most. Other than implanting the grafts, I do not agree with techs doing the extractions or any of the other incisions. Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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