Smp question to all that have seen smp in person

[Baldybee2]

Does smp look real? Especially would like people who perform smp on people to replly, can you guys tell by looking at the scalp who had smp? It's kinda like how a hair transplant surgeon can spot a hair piece up close. Can smp doctors or artist know right away if the scalp was treated with smp. The reason why I'm asking is I'm hearing that smp does not look real but yet every site I read says you can't tell between smp and real hair. So I want to ask all the pros out there, does smp look real. Can I tell the different between existing hair and smp on the scalp.

[hairthere]

It depends. For someone who had the shaved/buzzed look the SMP dots can be indistinguishable if done with a properly sized needle. They are meant to mimic hair shaved down to stubble. For someone using SMP for thinning hair you can tell if you look very closely because these are dots under strands of hair. They are meant to cut the contrast between hair color and scalp color. So someone using SMP for thickening effect needs to have the right amount of hair to provide this illusion without being detectable. A trained SMP tech should know when it's not appropriate to perform thickening technique. Hope that helps.

[Baldybee2]

Thank you for the reply. If anyone else can offer their thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. I mainly want feedback from people who see smp to give me their input on if a bold shave look can look as real as what these smp sites say.

[hairthere]

No Problem. I am in the process of opening a SMP clinic so I'm happy to share any info I can.

[hsrp10]

I've seen SMP work from HIS up close and personal, and if I didn't know otherwise I would have just guessed the guy shaved his head.

The look was natural, dark and unnoticeable. This was on an Asian patient.

[fueonly]

His hair super super expensive

I would rather get HT from surgeons who charges 1$ or 2$ per graft.

Rather then having ink I would have hair given the price his hair clinic is charging.

[BaldKen2]

Does smp look real? Especially would like people who perform smp on people to replly, can you guys tell by looking at the scalp who had smp? It's kinda like how a hair transplant surgeon can spot a hair piece up close. Can smp doctors or artist know right away if the scalp was treated with smp. The reason why I'm asking is I'm hearing that smp does not look real but yet every site I read says you can't tell between smp and real hair. So I want to ask all the pros out there, does smp look real. Can I tell the different between existing hair and smp on the scalp.

 

To answer your question, Yes, SMP does look real. I had SMP several years ago and No One, Not One Person, has ever questioned whether I had tattooed dots on my head. To be fair I also have a good amount of coverage remaining so this makes it look more realistic. Most people tell me I should let my hair grow out b/c my shaved head looks like i would have very thick hair. That is the best case scenario with smp, that people think you choose to be bald but cud grow out your hair if you want to. That is just reality though, the majority of people you encounter will always prefer a person's appearance to have a head of hair rather than a bald or "shaved Head." The price that the smp places charge is OUTRAGEOUS! Range from 2800 to 4800 dollars, or 500-900 dollars an hour for services. All scalp micropigmentation really means is= Scalp Permanent Makeup. Do a Google Search for Permanent Makeup and see the alternative names for it, Micropigmentation. In fact, most smp places employ practitioners who are permanent makeup artists (usually the rejects from Perm Makeup Industry or Cosmetology Dropouts) whos experience is primarily eyebrows, lips, eyelids etc. There is a SMP business in Florida that was originally a tattoo parlor, and then actually a Permanent Makeup Clinic before they finally changed to strictly SMP (for more $$). Any Good Permanent Makeup, or Micropigmentation Artist can easily perform SMP. It is not a rare Skill Set to tattoo dots on the head, and the fact is most permanent makeup artists have far more cosmetic tattooing experience than these SMP clinics that are popping up everyday all over the place with no cosmetic tattooing resumes, just a good sales pitch. Google search "Tattoo Pointillism." Traditional Tattoo Artists using pointillism, tattoo tiny dots (anywhere on the body including the scalp) to form elaborate images and pieces of art. SMP clinics just tattoo random dots which is Easy and simple work for them.

You say that Every SMP site you see says that you cannot tell the difference between their dots and real hair. LOL of course they say that. You cannot go by these web sites, they will claim anything and everything to get your money. SMP businesses will say that they use "special inks", "special needles", "special Machines." It is all BS. They are using the same or similar pigments and needles and equipment that every cosmetic tattoo and permanent makeup artist uses. Ask the SMP place specific questions regarding their Pigments and equipment and see how much information they give you. You will get no info b/c if they told you the truth that their equipment and pigments are no different than any other smp place or permanent makeup business, you would conclude that you can have this done at just about anywhere for a much much cheaper price.

FUEonly mentioned that HIS hair is very expensive. This is true in the long run. Initially their price is very competitive w/ other providers, but they employ a method more similar to Temporary SMP, so it fades dramatically between 12-18 months (just read their forum and see the majority of members experience fading quickly). This forces the client to continue getting touchups for hundreds of dollars or pounds every year or so.

My advice to you is do not believe any SMP ads or websites, and certainly do not take the advice of so- called "smp experts" or smp business reps that you meet on these forums. They are nothing more than sales reps or former Permanent Makeup Artists and Receptionists who made the move to SMP to get paid off of peoples ignorance.

[scar5]

Does smp look real?

 

 

Firstly, let's assume three things;

1) The hairline design is nice, the shaded area matches the face's lines

2) The shaded area has a smooth border that gradually transitions to skin tone

3) Not counting flash photography. Cell phone pics can make SMP look atrocious

 

My answer would be that it can look natural in most conditions, (from the front angles) but certain light conditions can give it a superficial look. I think this comes down to how shallow the ink is (and must be) deposited. To describe the look is difficult. I would say a slightly silvery cover over the skin surface might be apt. To prevent the shine making this effect worse, you can apply a matt finish product to the surface of the skin.

 

As for the side and back of the head, the contrast between real hair areas and SMP areas can also be affected by light too. Sometimes, the SMP is too light, and then if you tilt your head, the opposite can be true. All depends on how the light hits the skin.

 

If you have hair then it is a different story again. Certain hair lengths are quite bad and there is a contrast that becomes obvious. Grow or cut the hair right, and the bonus SMP offers is really significant. Of course, to pull this off, you need hair in the hairline itself.

[scar5]

double post

:confused:

[BaldKen2]

Yes I agree with most of those points. Different lighting can affect some Poor Quality smp work dramatically. And there are certain individual factors like skin tone, remaining hair, head shape, facial features like eyebrows that play a significant role. But fact is you really should not over-think and over-analyze the SMP approach. If done correctly it will look realistic and evenly toned in any lighting condition, assuming you groom properly and consistently. Some people over-analyze this thing to death and it is quite silly to make a simple TATTOO SESSION (NO it is not a procedure or medical treatment) into something much more.

Honestly, if your information on SMP was gathered from forums, Smp Business Websites and directly from SMP business, or Los Angeles HT docs then your info is tainted with the spin of lies and partial truths that these places use for advertising in order to charge thousands for tattooing work worth $350-800 tops. If you really want to learn about cosmetic tattooing and hair replication tats then you have to log off of your computer and go out and meet some people in the tattooing industry (not SMP providers who provide ZERO details and facts). That is what I did. And if you meet enough practitioners and Micropigmentation artists then you will find many that will be straight with you and not feed you a load of crap. Most are very willing to educate you if you show an interest in their profession, but there are always some who just want to sell you something.

Many men feel that if they just had hair or appearance of it that they would feel better about themselves. Fact is, if you are fat unattractive, unhealthy, lazy man then even with hair or smp you will still be that way. Physical and mental health is gained and maintained through HEALTH DIET and EXERCISE. I know hair loss can cause psychological issues, but I believe that in these cases these Psychological issues existed long before the individual lost his or her hair, and the hair loss was just the Catalyst that worsened their mental state.

[scar5]

If you really want to learn about cosmetic tattooing and hair replication tats then you have to log off of your computer and go out and meet some people in the tattooing industry .

 

I agree with you that people can be more frank if you meet them in a context that is outside a direct sale/buy opportunity, but I'm not always confident that I can count on what they tell me Perhaps that is what you mean by not over-thinking things, because sometimes casual remarks that are off-the-cuff can seem to contradict each other.

 

In the case of SMP, I'm not even sure if they really know themselves. Tattoo people are usually confident and independent people, (if self-doubt were part of their persona, they wouldn't have customers!) but here is the thing - do they really know? Does anyone really know? SMP is still working itself out and I'm not convinced anyone knows what they are doing yet.

 

Agree on most of the other stuff you said.

[BaldKen2]

In the case of SMP, I'm not even sure if they really know themselves. Tattoo people are usually confident and independent people, (if self-doubt were part of their persona, they wouldn't have customers!) but here is the thing - do they really know? Does anyone really know? SMP is still working itself out and I'm not convinced anyone knows what they are doing yet.

 

 

 

Very Good point, and I agree with you on that. Micropigmentation Practitioners who are worth a salt can give you approximate ink insertion depth, needle cluster and number used, machines and speeds in CPS or DPS, pigment particle sizes in microns, pigment metal contents and chemical compounds, BUT there is no way that any of them can accurately predict in every single person how well their result will be or how the dots will age (migration, fade time, color change), too many factors involved. And they claim they can predict with accuracy which is a lie. So many Lies from SMP places. For example One clinic claims that they have "migration-resistant pigments", and another claims that their pigments (once located in the dermis mind you) have a property that prevents light from shining off of the scalp LOL .

I suppose my main point was that these SMP providers know for a fact that they have no special pigments or unique equipment or methods that separates them from permanent makeup/micropigmentation practitioners, yet they put such strong emphasis on their claims that they are completely different from permanent makeup. And then they charge 4-6 times more than every other cosmetic tattoo business in the industry.

These SMP clinics' days are numbered and I feel they know this. They are trying to make as much money as they can before people begin to realize that they can have smp done for much much cheaper in almost any city. As soon as people begin posting good results that they received from General Micropigmentation Practitioners for a much reduced price compared to these smp providers, the word will begin to spread. For now however most people, who aren't educated in tattooing, will believe these bogus photos that SMP clinics post on their websites of men's heads that they have painted with blue and purple die and claim these are men who went to a permanent makeup artist.

[scar5]

So many Lies from SMP places...These SMP clinics' days are numbered and I feel they know this. .

 

It's opaque and it's wink-wink kinda stuff all the way down the chain,

 

the ink suppliers lie to the distributors,

who lie to the clinic proprietors

who lie to the clinic staff

who lie to the reps

who lie to the customers

who lie to themselves..

 

But there is truth and good intension mixed in there too...results can be better and or worse and you run the gauntlet of your own judgment ...woooah!! sooo deep there.

 

I don't agree that these clinics know their days are numbered. I assume most are in it for as long as they can, though I could be wrong. I generally assume that they'll get better at doing what they do, including looking better than the local start-up across the road. Unfortunatley, they won't give a damn about us. If the chance to appear on national TV appears, they'll jump at it and shoot us all down in the process. Our little secret is just collateral damage.

 

Two other things.

A lot of them don't know why they use the specs they use, they are just using received wisdom.

A lot of them won't even fully exploit the tools they have, because they don't have to. Example of this, they won't change sizes, or ink parameters as often as they could because it takes more time.

Some of them play dumb too, when asked about parameters. Don't blame them, but it makes it harder.

All in all, I have found HT clinics, as despicable as they might seem, more open and frank than the SMP clinics I have dealt with.

[BaldKen2]

It's opaque and it's wink-wink kinda stuff all the way down the chain,

 

the ink suppliers lie to the distributors,

who lie to the clinic proprietors

who lie to the clinic staff

who lie to the reps

who lie to the customers

who lie to themselves..

 

But there is truth and good intension mixed in there too...results can be better and or worse and you run the gauntlet of your own judgment ...woooah!! sooo deep there.

 

I don't agree that these clinics know their days are numbered. I assume most are in it for as long as they can, though I could be wrong. I generally assume that they'll get better at doing what they do, including looking better than the local start-up across the road. Unfortunatley, they won't give a damn about us. If the chance to appear on national TV appears, they'll jump at it and shoot us all down in the process. Our little secret is just collateral damage.

 

Two other things.

A lot of them don't know why they use the specs they use, they are just using received wisdom.

A lot of them won't even fully exploit the tools they have, because they don't have to. Example of this, they won't change sizes, or ink parameters as often as they could because it takes more time.

Some of them play dumb too, when asked about parameters. Don't blame them, but it makes it harder.

All in all, I have found HT clinics, as despicable as they might seem, more open and frank than the SMP clinics I have dealt with.

 

Great post, and great points all around! You may be right about a few smp places standing the test of time, but if they do I think it will only be a handful of providers who will be successful at continuing to charge over $3,000. The dozens of copycat bandwagon clinics will either fall by the wayside or will be forced to charge much less for their services which will ultimately force them out of business when their debt gets too great. I just do not feel that consumers are dumb enough to continue paying so much money for this overpriced service that any cosmetic or good tattoo artist can do with very little training, and the smp clinics will not be able to keep up this charade. So much of the smp industry reminds me of real estate scam infomercials, and then you see some of these guys trying to get investors offering franchising opportunities lol.

There is one Provider whos owner had a treatment at HIS Hair clinic and then opened up his own business and now claims that he invented scalp micropigmentation LOL. He puts all of these wild lies out on the web like that he wrote a book, he kept advertising for it for months saying it would be available at Barnes n noble and on Amazon, and then the release date came and went and the book doesnt exist and never did. He also was going on twitter claiming he was going to be on the ABC show Shark Tank to pitch his smp business, and of course that never came to fruition. Just a bunch of B.S. to make himself and his business seem legit so people will pay him. He's a clown! SMP is filled with these scam artists like him.

I agree, HT docs, though shady and often not completely honest, are much more forthcoming and straightforward than SMP businesses.

[BaldKen2]

Just an update on this thread, as far as seeing it in person, if you saw my scalp and were right up close to it you would never know it was smp'd. You would just think that I have lots of healthy follicles and that I chose to shave my head. Just In the last two weeks, one lady told me "wow you look really good with a shaved head", another woman asked "why did you shave all your hair off, it looks really thick, like if you grew it out it'd be a thick full head of hair." A man yesterday told me that I did a nice shave job and asked me questions about how I buzz my head. Keep in mind, these are just folks that I meet in passing or traveling or through business, so they do not know that this shaved head look is how I look year round.

A couple months ago even my doctor (who doesn't know I have smp) commented on how healthy and plentiful my "follicles" are looking and how my hair seems full, as we were discussing how my Propecia and Dutasteride were working.

I have been negative and critical in a few of my previous posts about smp, but mainly I just get annoyed at all the copycat providers who don't know what they are doing and end up ruining people's scalps so I tend to vent. The business I did smp with is, IMO, one of the top 5 in the world and just did an amazing job! Would I have preferred to pay less than I did? Uh, Yea.. of course, but honestly I would rather pay more than I think I should and get it right, than pay a small fee and end up with a bad result which would cost more to repair in long run.

It helps to have some hair definitely, but two of the best results Ive ever seen were the owner and consultant of the clinic I went to, and I believe those two fellows have less hair than I do.

I did not believe that it would be undetectable before I had it done, but then after seeing those two men at clinic, and after several years and NOT ONE person calling me out on SMP, I am convinced. Of course, once SMP grows a bit more, advertises more, the public will be more suspicious of guys with nice shaved heads.

[cormacsullivan30]

Hey I'm thinking of having s.m.p in London I like the idea and hav mock pics any info or views please email me as i don't wana make a bad mistake but I have no choice as I can't afford a ht also I like my head shaved. Any help appreciated please send me ur opinions to cormacs8@ hotmail.co.uk

[cormacsullivan30]

Hey I need help before I get a tattoo on my head

[cormacsullivan30]

Help me someone give me an unbiased opinion will it work for me will it fade is it noticeable in real life. I'm about to make a decision of a lifetime so if u could mail me with your opinions please I'd appreciate it thanks guys forward any info to cormacs8@hotmail.co.uk

[cormacsullivan30]

Please help me I need advise ASAP regarding s.m.p I have had mock pics and would love ur option please contact me with any tips or advise on the subject please mail me with honest answers

[cormacsullivan30]

Hey here r my mock pics for s.m.p please help with any foughts thankyou

[mattiulo]

Hey Cormack, what kind of questions do you have? Ill be happy to try and help. I have had the treatment on myself for almost 5 years and am also an SMP practitioner, so hopefully i can offer both perspectives...

 

your mock up looks good by the way, its a naturally curved and broken hairline..

[cormacsullivan30]

Hey I sent a reply Matt did u recurve it?

[mattiulo]

no i did not, you can private message me with your questions and ill be happy to answer.

[Blake Bloxham]

Hi Matt,

 

While I did appreciate browsing your site, I must ask you to remove the outside links in your signature. Unfortunately, it is a violation of our terms of service. I do encourage you, however, to continue participating in these SMP discussions. You could also share some images in our SMP sub-forum, if you'd like, as well. Let me know if you need help editing the signature. Thanks!

[mattiulo]

No problem Blake, links removed