BaldKen2

Wow, easy there slick! I was speaking of permanent smp. Maybe you should revisit the first line of my post, or the thread title for that matter, and it was my understanding that you perform Temporary SMP which as you claim, is completely different from permanent. So...not sure why you felt the need to defend yourself when you weren't being attacked, especially when I've complimented your work numerous times. :confused:

The best place to have permanent SMP- simply put, the best place is any experienced permanent makeup practitioner who is willing to do this treatment. Some permanent makeup practitioners and technicians do not want to mess with dotting scalps b/c it can be time consuming and quite tedious and boring. And also the fact is that many experienced Micropigmentation practitioners view SMP as "beneath them" or just kind of amateurish b/c it is extremely easy to do, and requires little to no artistry or skill, but many will take on the job if they have time b/c it is usually worth 1-2 g's for them. Some charge less. Providers who offer SMP exclusively will try to lead you to believe that implanting tiny dots of ink is "extremely complicated" or requires "extensive training" or "special pigments and equipment" that only they possess LOL:D One of my favorite lines is "the scalp is a whole other animal" LOL So false! But at the end of the day these same SMP providers either just recently learned how to do SMP by taking a 3 day course, or are actually Permanent makeup technicians themselves who still practice permanent makeup on a regular basis and use the same pigments, needles, machines and same equipment for both their Permanent makeup treatments and their SMP treatments. Sift through the Bogus testimonials, pseudoscience, and marketing, and just get the facts. And if the provider is selling you something that smells a whole lot like B.S., it probably is

NorCal's a good location to to be based out of mate. You should not have to go very far to get SMP, definitely not out of state. Call up a couple of the places you are interested in and see if they can put you in touch with some previous clients, preferably guys who have had the treatment done over a year ago. Given the mass amount of clients the two clinics you mentioned claim to have treated, it should not be a problem for them to connect you with some lads willing to help you make a decision by showing you their treated scalps. If you are unable to meet the previous clients in person you can always use Skype.

You make some great points and obviously have great knowledge regarding SMP. I definitely respect your opinion and agree that there are many factors unique to each individual that can determine whether a treatment is successful. I just feel that there are a great number of convenient "facts" that providers put out there that ultimately are utilized as scare tactics to gain business. My personal experience contradicts what you feel or claim is valid regarding pigments and machines and techniques. Some of the best SMP treatments I have witnessed were performed by practitioners who primarily do eyebrows and permanent makeup, and the results have had great longevity. But of course, keep in mind, these are very experienced practitioners having been doing micropigmentation for 15-25 years and didn't just jump into it in the last few years like many of the SMP providers you will find. Also, most in the industry feel that the scalp is much easier and more predictable to work with than the face. But again, that is just my own personal experience. I am sure you have witnessed and repaired quite a few bad SMP treatments so you are all too familiar with what can go wrong, and you are correct that it is better to be safe than sorry. Kind Regards:)

Quite right, I agree that Matt does good work, and Simon and Paul with Brandwood have some good results as well. My point is that the method they use fades very quickly, and if a client is okay with that and prefers to have a more temporary result, then they should absolutely go to one of these providers. It all depends on the individual and his or her standards and expectations. As far as that method being safer, I would say that the "HIS Hair way" is safer than going to an untrained, unproven, unskilled, inexperienced provider. Absolutely correct, but that is just kind of common sense, right? If you are just going with any ole bloke doing micropigmentation, then you would be far better off not having it at all. Got to exercise due diligence and do your homework with anything permanent, or in this case, Semi-permanent. And touch-ups are definitely much better than repairing a bad SMP job, absolutely. But again, my point is that if you go to a good practitioner who is also using the proper method: 1) the client will not have to worry about color change or migration 2) the client's results will not fade as quickly and he will be able to enjoy his results longer without the necessity of frequent touch-ups Finding a good practitioner or technician is not that difficult these days. Most people should not have that hard of a time finding someone within reasonable proximity of their home. The Society of Permanent Cosmetic Professionals is a good resource. SPCP - Society for Permanent Cosmetic, Micropigmentation, Permanent Makeup and Cosmetic Tattooing Professionals

It is difficult to gather much from the photos you posted b/c they do not seem to be high def photos. Back in 2014 when he worked at a place called headstrong, one of his clients posted this photo of results with Matt, and to me the dots look pretty big, and resemble HIS hair results quite a bit. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/176515-smp-clinic-question-2.html

Personally, I would avoid any provider who employs the 'HIS Hair Method' of SMP. Any former HIS Hair technician who has gone into business for himself is most likely doing things the "HIS Hair way". Receiving your SMP treatment at a provider who is using the 'HIS Hair Method' means that your results will fade naturally much quicker than a proper SMP treatment- about one and a half to two years time after the final treatment you will have experienced severe fading. This method is designed to fade very rapidly, not as quickly as Tricopigmentation, but much quicker than a proper SMP technique. This is good if you prefer your results to fade rapidly, some people like that. You can usually tell if a provider is using the 'HIS technique' b/c they will advertise that you will need up to 4 or 5 sessions with 10-15 day intervals in between sessions. Also the SMP dots will appear very large for the first couple of weeks before shrinking to a smaller size. Most providers use this method b/c they can charge by the session and make more money this way. Great for the provider, not so much for the client.

I believe it is very important to look at all potential side effects and possible health issues that a procedure, treatment, or drug may cause. However, in this case, with all due respect to Dr. Rassman, it seems like a lot of speculation with little to no evidence to support his claims that the silicone in the tricopigmentation pigments can, in any way, be linked to cancer. I will not get into all of the technical aspects of how the body disposes of foreign particles, but knowing what I know of Physiology as well as Micropigmentation, I would surmise that if there is any truth to these claims then there are equal, if not greater, risks involved in "permanent" micropigmentation and permanent body art tattoos. And we all know how many people in today's society are sporting tats, not to mention the enormous number of women who have permanent makeup. Having said that, IMO there is a clear agenda behind this and I feel that it is a self-serving, convenient speculation by Rassman and NHI in order to cast a shadow of doubt on Tricopigmentation as a whole, in an effort to dissuade his potential clients from going the trico route and instead using NHI and Dr. Joe Pak's permanent SMP services. Whilst I feel NHI does some beautiful SMP work, I also believe they would absolutely be offering Tricopigmentation treatments themselves if they felt it would be financially beneficial to them. NHI is far and away the most expensive provider of the Scalp Micropigmentation treatment, charging between $7,000 and $9,000 per treatment last I checked, and they would not be able to charge near that price for Tricopigmentation. A provider's decision to offer Tricopigmentation or "permanent" Scalp Micropigmentation, is not in any way based on a personal ethical conviction, and not at all due to their "moral duty" to administer pigments the "responsible way", but it is based on only one thing- MONEY. Whichever treatment a provider feels will make him or her the most money, that is the treatment and service that he or she will offer, it is as simple as that. This is precisely the reason we are already beginning to see that the same Tricopigmentation Providers who once bashed "permanent" scalp pigmentation, are now including it as an additional service that they offer. For the lot who have chosen Tricopigmentation as solution, I think that is fantastic. If they are happy with the results and it makes them feel better about their appearance, then I say cheers to that:) I do not personally feel that Tricopigmentation is the best route to take, but again, if it makes financial sense and a client has no problem repeating the treatment process annaully, I say go for it. I have seen some brilliant Tricopimentation results on this forum from Erik at AheadInk and Nicole at Shapiro Medical and the treatment absolutely does improve a person's appearance.

I too have wondered for a long time if Kobe Bryant has SMP. It is hard to tell on darker black guys. it almost looks more like concealer makeup. IDK What an epic game though! So glad I watched that one, amazing to see Kobe get 60 and lead his team to the victory in his finale. He will be missed. Was so wonderful to see the Black Mamba go out in style :cool:

No worries! The derma roller is a bad method and should be avoided. That's not to say that there aren't some good scalp pigmentation providers who have good skills and the experience and capability to do a proper treatment b/c there definitely are. But based on my observations over the last several years the bad providers certainly outweigh the good. And b/c of the potential to make good money very quickly for a service (that Most technicians have no experience or training in) the industry has attracted some very dodgy people. Anyone can set up a website claiming that they are "the world's best" or "world's largest" and spout all kinds of lies regarding their results and experience and just absolute rubbish. Personally if it were me, I wouldn't choose a provider who hasn't been in business for at least 5 years, and even then I'd be careful. I have seen what appear to be good results from some tricopigmentation practitioners, but I am still skeptical about the fading process. If it completely fades as the claim, I think trico could be a good way to test the waters before committing to SMP which will take much longer to fade. I don't feel that trico is practical for the long term however, unless you are comfortable making trips back to the provider every 9-12 months and paying for it all over again.

When speaking of Micropigmentation, or "permanent" cosmetics, the term "permanent" is not completely accurate. Whether it is permanent makeup for eye shadow, or lips, or eyebrows, or scalp hair simulation, the inks used are deposited at a very shallow depth into the dermis with a very different ink (think of it as diluted, less concentrated ink) than you see in tattoos, that will eventually fade with time, and fading depends on a couple of factors:1) how well you take care of your scalp (avoiding sun exposure, trauma to the scalp like abrasions; properly moisturing scalp) and (2) how your immune system reacts to the pigments. So if the treatment is done correctly, it will fade over the years. Keep in mind that all of the above is assuming that the practitioner is doing things the correct way. I have seen some "providers" that basically use the same inks and equipment as a run of the mill tattoo parlor and the outcome is not good. Places like this give the industry a bad name and provide 'bash marketing' ammunition to businesses who offer alternative hair loss solutions. Many SMP providers have tried vigorously, through marketing and advertising, to separate themselves from Permanent makeup attempting to convince consumers that they have invented a whole new method and invented some miracle pigment, and developed their own machines and needles which is all marketing spin and total BS. They order their inks, machines and equipment from permanent makeup manufacturers. A few years ago the marketing trend for smp businesses was to label their treatments differently and claim that it was not micropigmentation they offered but something "new", "more advanced", and "original". Something "much better" than what their competitors offered. A few of the terms I remember seeing were: CTHR, MHT, ACHM2 Total marketing spin and BS. Despite claiming, just a few years ago, that what they offered was not micropigmentation but something better, today these same companies advertise their treatment as being scalp micropigmentation. I think it is important to remember that Scalp Micropigmentation is nothing new. It is really just permanent makeup on the scalp. SMP providers use the same machines, needles, pigments, methods, and equipment as Permanent Makeup practitioners. The difference is that these Smp businesses have very little experience in the field. It is just like if you opened your own micropigmentation clinic and only did eyebrows. The reason you do not see this is b/c the market for people wanting eyebrow permanent makeup is not big enough to offer that service exclusively and they could only charge a fraction of what is charged for SMP treatment. SMP is just a branch of permanent makeup that treats the scalp exclusively. Cosmetic tattooing has been around for decades. The only thing that changed is the times: now it is much more socially acceptable to rock the shaved head look, so smp has become a much more attractive option for hair loss sufferers who are willing to pay thousands for dots tattooed on their scalp. The market- men with hair loss- is huge and the hair loss industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. SMP is a great business opportunity right now b/c just about anyone can become a practitioner: you don't need to be a doctor , and in some states you do not even need any certifications. Some providers are issuing their own certifications so that should tell you something. Most SMP technicians were tattoo artists before or permanent makeup practitioners. An SMP provider in Florida was actually a Permanent Makeup and body art tattoo shop before they changed to just offering scalp pigmentation. And many have no experience in tattooing whatsoever. My point in all of this: I would much rather trust my scalp to a practitioner who has been doing all forms of micropigmentation for 20 years or more and knows the ins and outs of all aspects of cosmetic and paramedical tattooing, as opposed to trusting a business who just opened recently and has no background in cosmetic tattooing. These "clinics" that keep popping up are usually owned by an investment group or funded by an opportunist looking to make some quick money while they still can- both of whom will close down shop and move onto the next money making scheme as soon as the opportunity arises. Translation: they are not invested in you and have nothing to lose by screwing up your head. They have no reputation to protect b/c they will be gone in a year or so. But there are still some good SMP providers out there who seem to be sticking around. You just have to be careful in your research if you choose SMP as your hair loss "solution"

I agree with you 100% that if you are someone who resides in the UK you definitely can find great providers right there and have no need to go abroad. If I were someone looking to have SMP in the UK I would definitely start with Brandwood Clinic w/ Simon Lane and Paul Clark. You cannot go wrong with those two guys. Not sure what they charge but if you're looking for experience and skill, I do not know that you can do any better than those guys.

Have you tried contacting providers in the UK to see if they can put you in contact with one or two of their clients? Or perhaps they may arrange for you to visit their location and view some of their work personally, most established providers are more than capable of doing this. Photos can be altered, and do not always provide the best indication. Best to see it for yourself face to face. Good that you are being cautious though, best to investigate so you don't end up going with some dodgy provider. I have known a couple of lads who were absolutely gutted after receiving very poor treatments. If you are worried about longevity of smp you could always go the tricopigmentation route. The Milena Lardi trained providers have shown to do brilliant work.

Thanks for the update Wyngnut2, your results look very nice! Huge improvement from where you started, night and day really. The scar is concealed nicely and just looks like you have a full head of hair with a close buzz cut. I can relate to your trip between San Diego and L.A., I used to make that commute often. Glad things have worked out for you with NHI. Cheers:)

Hi MadManSlice, I think it looks great! The pigment colour matches your skin tone very nicely and the density looks quite good. I like the hairline they did, it looks broken and natural and they didn't go down too low with it. Looking at your before photograph I can tell you that you look 15 years younger in your after with the smp! This is a great example of how SMP can positively impact a person's appearance. I'm glad you are having a good experience with HIS. Looks wonderful mate, cheers