Cost of FUE, increasing or decreasing?

[1966kph]

As far as I know he still implants all grafts but techs do the extractions.

Have a good day.

 

Is Dr. Lorenzo using techs for placement now?

[Janna]

From the link:

 

 

 

So I guess they are still using the Artas, which I thought they had abandoned. For manual extractions, this is who the Shapiro's employ:

 

Dr. David Josephitis

 

Clarification: Shapiro Medical does not have the Artas any longer. It's been over a year since we've used the Artas. That quote from me is in regards to a patient who had work done with the Artas in January of 2014. In Feb of 2014, we had stopped scheduling patients for the Artas.

[1966kph]

In regard to artas within the US could technicians do extractions using it ?

If the answer is yes I presume the US would be the biggest market and reason it was thought up in the place was because of the law regarding techs.

Pity it turned out to be so poor.

Have a good day.

[SySperling10]

Does Artas or Neograpt charge the physician by the follicle extracted?

[Sean]

This is just part of the surgeon choice decision tree, which layers into the economics of the decision.

 

You have to decide on the type of transplants (FUE v FUT)?, understand how much you can afford? grafts needed? determine technique? travel? Physician involvement?

 

Somehow after determining the above, you land on a handful of Drs. Now if it involves crossing the Atlantic, that's an entire different element, which could be too stressful for a first timer.

 

True, crossing the Atlantic could be something that may cause anxiety in some folks. But again, taking a flight from NJ to Vancouver or Mexico could be of similar travel concern where you may not know the dominant language of the region. People take vacation trips to costa rica, jamaica, brazil, poland, london, etc. Most doctors in other countries can also speak English. If you are into tourism, you get used to these things. You just have to plan longer trips if you need additional aftercare based on the procedure you select. With all the high quality affordable fue work popping up in some other countries, it's becoming interesting.

[scar5]

American docs are in a pickle at the moment with the impending demise of strip. The problem for them is that techs can't extract. But they can't go and work in Europe or a land where their medical licenses are valid - they can't even cross State lines in many cases. Going to Europe means thy have to re-do their residencies.

 

For a while they held back the waters by blasting away at FUE, calling it a scam etc. but in doing so they shot themselves in the foot. In bashing FUE, machines like Neograft and Artas, t(he very things that might make FUE economical for them) were so maligned that they now almost have to hide the fact they use them.

 

There is no way a doc can sit there manually extracting 5000 FUE grafts a week for a living. It is crisis time for them and I think we will see a number of them diversifying into other areas of plastic surgery.

[1966kph]

I agree scar and I think the moves dr Karadeniz high lighted were the ishrs members voted that members had to sign up to extractions having to be carried out by drs just shows how desperate they are becoming.

As if the most successful fue drs that can utilise techs are going to revert back to their old ways to retain membership of a society that is obviously self serving of the US ht industry.

When utilising techs in full as they do in turkey and europe more people are treated in a day and standards such as those produced by Erdogan and Lorenzo have IMO stayed top notch which is in my book a great thing for sufferers, not so great for the US ht industry and it knows it.

Dr Karadeniz said himself that he will utilise techs even though he has been belittling techs since he arrived here due to his high opinion of his skills but he realises you have to move with the times or sink.

Its dire straits for the US ht industry and it knows it.

I think any of us who have been about long enough have seen this coming in gradually but IMO it has escalated due to the financial climate over the last 6-7 years and people realising they have alternatives to paying the ridiculous prices which US drs have been charging.

The US used to have a monopoly on the ht industry and more and more sufferers are saying NO MORE.

Have a good day

 

American docs are in a pickle at the moment with the impending demise of strip. The problem for them is that techs can't extract. But they can't go and work in Europe or a land where their medical licenses are valid - they can't even cross State lines in many cases. Going to Europe means thy have to re-do their residencies.

 

For a while they held back the waters by blasting away at FUE, calling it a scam etc. but in doing so they shot themselves in the foot. In bashing FUE, machines like Neograft and Artas, t(he very things that might make FUE economical for them) were so maligned that they now almost have to hide the fact they use them.

 

There is no way a doc can sit there manually extracting 5000 FUE grafts a week for a living. It is crisis time for them and I think we will see a number of them diversifying into other areas of plastic surgery.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 1966kph

[KO]

Techs being heavily involved isn't a new thing that is going to liberate hair loss sufferers, rather it's been happening for a long time. If I'm not mistaken, Scar5 himself has gotten procedures where techs do most of the work. Rather doctors who are passionate about their work and are heavily involved is one of the reasons hair restoration has gotten a lot better.

 

In the US techs can extract grafts in some places as Janna pointed out, plus Rahal uses techs for extraction.

[SySperling10]

 

There is no way a doc can sit there manually extracting 5000 FUE grafts a week for a living. It is crisis time for them and I think we will see a number of them diversifying into other areas of plastic surgery.

 

There are docs is the US who extract more than 5000 FUE grafts a week. It's quite possible, really a product of efficiency in extraction. The paradigm shift from FUT to FUE will take time in the U.S., as doctors begin to adapt techniques and methods being utilized in Europe / Asia.

[MusoInOz]

This thread has been a great read, I still strongly believe although FUE has made a dramatic rise over past several years FUT will never truly disappear as some have cautioned, just not going to happen at this stage In the game.

[1966kph]

This is true ko but the vast majority as far as I am aware cannot.

This along with the overheads and drs self worth are keeping the US prices high.

Its fact that instead of people going to the US they are coming from the US to Europe and Turkey.

What's the number one difference? IMO and just look how many fut surgery's are carried out in Turkey very few.I think fut is just about dead in Turkey. The vast majority of people IMO nowadays are going with fue. The ishrs statistics said that about 65% of US Drs persuaded the patients who came in looking for fue were talked into fut I think we can read something into this.

Without fully utilising techs in the US its at a big disadvantage and hopefully this will change and to the benefit of the US patients.

I think dr vories is a up and coming force within the US ht industry due to his technique and his prices I think he has it right to entice people to stay within the states for fue ht and I would suggest others should follow suit.

Have a good day

 

Techs being heavily involved isn't a new thing that is going to liberate hair loss sufferers, rather it's been happening for a long time. If I'm not mistaken, Scar5 himself has gotten procedures where techs do most of the work. Rather doctors who are passionate about their work and are heavily involved is one of the reasons hair restoration has gotten a lot better.

 

In the US techs can extract grafts in some places as Janna pointed out, plus Rahal uses techs for extraction.

[scar5]

I still strongly believe although FUE has made a dramatic rise over past several years

.

 

You still believe it:confused: Haven't you heard? It is a scam!

[scar5]

There are docs is the US who extract more than 5000 FUE grafts a week. It's quite possible/ Asia.

 

They won't last.

The better they get, the more they destroy their own bodies.. Manual FUE takes a terrible toll - speaking as an expert, you must realize! Seriously, they won't do it for a sustained period- at least most will not, which will encourage the odd maverick to suck it in and reap the short term rewards.

 

Even if they suffered no long term damage, what sort of mood is Dr X gonna be in when she/he comes home to see his/her kids after having spent six hours crouched in an awkward position, toggling a tiny but heavy thimble between her/his fingers.

 

The only time it makes sense, is when one is building a reputation, and then once that is established, we switch to techs.

[wylie]

They won't last.

The better they get, the more they destroy their own bodies.. Manual FUE takes a terrible toll - speaking as an expert, you must realize! Seriously, they won't do it for a sustained period- at least most will not, which will encourage the odd maverick to suck it in and reap the short term rewards.

 

Even if they suffered no long term damage, what sort of mood is Dr X gonna be in when she/he comes home to see his/her kids after having spent six hours crouched in an awkward position, toggling a tiny but heavy thimble between her/his fingers.

 

The only time it makes sense, is when one is building a reputation, and then once that is established, we switch to techs.

 

Manual extractions are going the way of scalp reductions, extraction tools make doctors life easy, the time it took to extract my beard hair grafts (1500 per day) was only a few minutes when Dr. Umar used an extraction device of some kind. I suspect the use of such equipment might even increase the survivability of the grafts, lessening the transection rate and leaving more fatty tissue surrounding the root of each follicle.

 

At least in theory.

[scar5]

... I suspect the use of such equipment might even increase the survivability of the grafts, lessening the transection rate and leaving more fatty tissue surrounding the root of each follicle.

 

At least in theory.

 

Well, it is a nice theory. I think the idea that they can help a doctor work effeciently and safely is appealling.

 

And then there is the wonder-weapon aspect of it. And that should frighten us, or at least give us cause for doing due diligence (go figure what that means)

 

These devices insulate people from the law, and an army of nameless techs swapping drills all day while the good doctor attends to other affairs can be rationalized if the results are good.

 

Are they?

[Blake Bloxham]

So, I wanted to give my "two cents" - for whatever that's worth - on a few things here:

 

First, strip surgery isn't going anywhere.

 

"What? You're crazy! How could you even say that? You're just a US doc so you must love strip!"

 

Right? Well, I would have said the same thing two years ago. As many of you know though, I've had the opportunity to really get some "hands on" hair transplant surgery training in the past few years, and my views on the FUE vs FUSS debate have really changed.

 

So, why don't I think strip is going anywhere? Simple: it's just too damn effective. The ability to sit a patient down, extract 5,000 - 9,000 (think clinics like Hasson & Wong) grafts, microscopically dissect them into perfect follicular unit grafts, and re-implant them with 95%++ growth is probably the "best" we will ever get with standard hair transplant surgery. The ability to move this much hair with such high yield won't be bested until things like donor doubling are available on a consistent basis.

 

"Yeah, but what about that ugly scar?"

 

The linear scar is a reality. You can close it "trichophytically," you can use deep sutures, superficial sutures, et cetera, but you will always get a linear scar. What's more, the role of patient physiology cannot be denied. We've all seen cases where the best hair transplant surgeons in the world close a strip wound with techniques they've perfected - or invented - and the patient still experiences a "less than ideal" final scar.

 

If you are a 26 year old, NW 2.5 looking to lower your frontotemporal angles to pull off the high and tight undercut with a 2 guard on the sides, then this is a "deal breaker" and you're probably not going to be happy with even the best strip scar. I don't think people should ignore this reality. Patients and surgeons need to look at the whole patient and design a restoration plan that suits the patient's needs and anticipates the future. Younger guys with less recessed patterns - and/or concerning family history - who may shave their head down the road when it's "en vogue" are most likely better suited for FUE. Period.

 

However, I don't think the majority of hair transplant patients fall under this umbrella. I think most hair restoration patients want to move as much "bulk" to the frontal and midscalp as humanly possible. I think telling these patients, "now keep in mind, you won't be able to shave your head in the future without seeing the strip scar" would be met with a lot of confused looks. Why? Because a shaved head or the idea of shaving down their temporoparietal scalp - which is one of the only areas they've had hair for the past few decades - is the last thing on their mind.

 

Now, I know what you're thinking:

 

"I hear about "mega session" FUE procedures all the time. Why even expose these dudes to the potential of a bad strip scar or limit their styling options in the future? Just do big FUE sessions on them!"

 

In theory, I get this. The problem is - braces self - FUE yield is simply poorer and less consistent when compared to strip. I know, I know. It's 2015, not 2004, and the FUE fear mongering is "eye roll" inducing. But hear me out. Studies comparing FUE to strip yield are SEVERELY lacking. Frankly, I find it kind of surprising. Most people see more FUE procedures being performed and, I think, just assume that we've come to a point where the yield between strip and FUE is comparable.

 

But let's look at the evidence we have available:

 

The best two studies I've seen on the subject come from Dr. Dua (2010) and Dr Beehner (2013). Both found significantly lower yields objectively comparing both methods. Both comment on not only increased transection and manual force as reasons for lower FUE yields, but also skeletonization and graft time out of body - both unavoidable phenomena with large sessions and small punches. Dr. Harris also notes that his standard two step procedure resulted in a yield of 74%. It wasn't until he moved to a MANUAL 3 step procedure - scoring the skin superficially with a sharp punch, gently dissecting the tissue deeply with a blunt punch, and then delivering the graft with forceps - that he reached yields of > 92%. However, I don't think I know of a single clinic using this method.

 

Now, you're probably thinking: "throw around these numbers and excuses all you want, but how do you explain these cases coming out of places like Turkey? These doctors do big FUE sessions and the results look great."

 

Let me answer that question with a question: how many of these FUE mega-sessions coming from some of these clinics are less than 3,000 grafts? How many have we seen where 4,000, 4,500, and even 5,000+ grafts are used?

 

Now, let me ask you another question: Say I take a NW 3-4 patient and implant 5,000 grafts via FUE. If 4,000 of these grafts grow, what is the result going to look like? It's going to look awesome, right? How about if 3,500 of them grow? Still going to look pretty damn impressive, right? I think so. But what is the growth yield here? 80%? 70% If you take a NW 3 patient and perform a 2,000 graft procedure via strip and 1,400 of them grow, you're probably going to notice and the result will suffer. But I think it's much more difficult to tell with the above FUE scenario.

 

So, who cares? Right? As long as the results look good, what's the problem with this approach?

 

Well, for me, it's twofold. First, we all know androgenic alopecia is a progressive condition. Wasting these 1,000 - 1,500 grafts may not seem like a big deal when a patient is young and the result looks good. But what happens when he continues progressing and needs these grafts? Second, believe it or not, repeated penetration of the scalp causes diffuse fibrotic scarring. While I don't believe this causes surrounding donor follicles to die, like some suggest, I do think it causes "diminishing returns" when it comes to future procedures. What do I mean by this? I think it's going to be harder and harder to successfully extract grafts in future FUE procedures and I think the growth yield of these grafts will be poorer.

 

This brings me to my next soapbox point: I think some are accusing "North American strip surgeons" of holding onto these arguments because strip is easier, strip is quicker, strip is their "bread and butter," and they can't use technicians to do these "5,000 grafts extracted in 3 hours" cases we hear about. Call me biased, but I don't think this is giving these doctors enough credit. Some accuse them of favoring strip and being wary of FUE out of greed. But what about recommending what they believe is best for the patient? Frankly, these surgeons have thoroughly investigated both methods. Many of these guys are the ones that write the papers and go to the conferences yearly to stay at the top of the field. These are also the guys who ditched loupes for microscopes, mini-grafts for follicular units, and hired teams of techs in order to offer patients the most natural and dramatic results. Frankly, they aren't the stuffy, old, change-resistant curmudgeons we sometimes make them out to be.

 

I also don't understand why we're seeing some vilify these doctors for pushing strip while comparing those who own tech clinics or "supervise" tech clinics to modern-day Robin Hoods?

 

Let's compare these models:

 

North American strip clinic: 1 highly trained physician; 1 procedure a day; complete physician involvement; and a total daily gross (that is used to pay a larger staff and higher general overhead) of somewhere between $12-14,000.

 

$12,000?? Those bastards! How do they sleep at night knowing there are clinics in Turkey charging 2 bucks a graft?

 

So, lets look at the tech-run clinic:

 

Little to no physician oversight or involvement; MULTIPLE (3-4) patients per day (this comes from reading experiences on the forums), HUGE graft numbers per procedure, and significantly less overhead going to malpractice, supplies, etc, etc.

 

3 patients a day at 4,000 grafts per patient with a cost of $2 per graft: $24,000. Even if we do 2 patients a day and lower the graft price, I don't think the whole "these doctors are the ones who care and want to help hair loss sufferers, and don't want to scar patients with antiquated procedures" argument falls apart.

 

This brings me to another important misconception frequently brought up on the forums:

 

"North American doctors push strip and vilify FUE because technicians aren't allowed to extract grafts in the United States, and it's too taxing for the docs to do it all themselves."

 

Now, the key in that sentence above is: United STATES. The US federal government rarely makes sweeping laws regarding healthcare practitioner regulation. The vast majority of these occur at the state level. Ask any doctor about the process of buying malpractice insurance, applying for a license, joining a board, etc. This occurs at the state level. The same applies to regulation of what allied healthcare processionals - nurses, assistants, technicians - can and cannot do. Many states in the US say only physicians are allowed to cut or puncture the skin with anything larger than a needle. However, many states do not. That's right, you heard it correctly. In some US states, technicians can remove grafts. What's more, there are clinics in the US that have technicians extract all their FUE grafts.

 

So ask yourself this: if there are a NUMBER of states in the US where doctors could open and minimally supervise a very profitable tech-run clinic, why wouldn't they do it? There are clearly patients who would undergo this service because of the cost, and the vast majority would prefer to stay in the states.

 

In my opinion, it hearkens back to what I said above: these doctors don't believe in this model. They understand that FUE is a very technically difficult procedure with generally lower yields. They don't believe it is ethical to hire a team of non-medical personnel to extract HUGE amounts of grafts on multiple patients over short time periods. This wastes precious grafts and isn't fair to the patients. I don't want to speak for all US physicians, but I personally feel this way. And I think others would agree.

 

I wanted to make a few other comments and address several other points:

 

First, 66, I want to address the following comment: (paraphrasing) "strip is on it's way out. I mean, you don't see any FUT clinics in Turkey."

 

I think the reason why you don't see strip clinics in Turkey is because it takes much more time and resources to properly run a practice that can offer patients strip when appropriate. Most technicians probably wouldn't feel comfortable removing a strip, and it seems like the industry in Turkey is moving toward technician-driven procedures. Frankly, I think this says a lot about this model. While I don't think a clinic needs to push strip on all patients, I do think the clinic should at least be capable of offering both procedures. This isn't possible without a doctor.

 

Next, I frequently hear, in this thread and others, people commenting about "patients from the US flocking to places like Turkey for surgery." Now, I see a lot of patients from surrounding European countries going to Turkey for surgery, but not as many US patients. Can anyone give me links to these patients?

 

Thanks for reading my long, long rant. Altogether, I think both strip and FUE have their place in modern hair transplant surgery. Some patients are better suited for strip; others are better suited for FUE. The "end goal" of surgical hair restoration will be a procedure with strip-level yield and FUE level scarring. Stay tuned for updates on that one ; )

Edited March 19, 2015 by Blake_Bloxham

[scar5]

The argument that american docs stick to strip because of their conscience is twaddle IMO.

It is no slur on them as individuals to say this. I respect any doctor, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

But to ignore how legal and economic realities influence outcomes and then marketing is just naive.

 

Docs are also legally and economically trapped in their states, not only in the US. If tech extraction is a big thing in the US, or even a thing at all,, then we, at HTN, as a community should be all over the facts and the details.

 

So bring them on!

 

Buzzing my head was the last thing on my mind in 1988. In 2002, I could wish for noting else.

[britboy]

Well well well... Seems like FUT is drowning.......some great scaremongering there Blake..keep it coming...who'd have though it... Giant linear scars are better than FUE... thats without the deep sutures, removal of stitches, the pain, the ever disheartening visual aspect scaring and of old outdated FUT :eek:. the damage caused to donor area and potential grafts while being cut through with a blade the full length of the scare top and bottom. With FUT you can "microscopically dissect them into perfect follicular unit grafts" hahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Im choking... and finish up with dolls hair just like me and still after 3 FUT and corrective surgery by FUT, still remains dolls punching 4,5,6 hairs from one graft, great keep that FUT going, love it..... of course much of this depends upon the surgeon and clinic as with FUE, painless, no meat slicing here....... perfect extraction, perfect transplanting and perfect results if a good clinic is found and used with great technicians led by an excellent surgeon.... and folks, they are out there, you just need to look!

 

You are welcome to write your book on the subject if you like :-)....but the end results are what count... and my results were amazing with FUE

 

I'm sorry but a picture paints a thousand words....If anyone is thinking of HT look at FUE and forget Picasso linear scars created from the artists FUT surgeons. But then what do I know I've only had 3 FUT and two FUE's and I can say from experience that I would NEVER have had FUT and never would have chosen FUT if FUE had been available then. No scarring, no stitches, no endless worry about my scar showing, no loss of grafts due to top and bottom cuts.

 

Thank God we don't see Strip IN turkey because FUT is outdated and barbaric at the least, as for cost, Ive experienced a 80% reduction in the cost of my surgeries in Turkey and 3-4 times the results, thank you. I never believed in UK HT surgery and still dont generally, but I did once believe in USA HT surgery, but not anymore especially with the advent of FUE and the great results from Turkey. Lets hope the word 'Turkey' or 'Istanbul' is also not banned on this forum... like other words I know and I don't mean expletives.

 

Good luck to all you choosing FUT, you will need it! Lol if you're interested take a look at my journey you will see its a miracle thanks only to FUE and as it happens in Turkey! Bald photos show results of 3 x FUT, d_9mos.jpg 1 x procedure FUE, check my thread and you will see I have have a second FUE and now waiting further reults...but then, what do I know, I'm only a patient.

 

Quote Blake_Bloxham "So ask yourself this: if there are a NUMBER of states in the US where doctors could open and minimally supervise a very profitable tech-run clinic, why wouldn't they do it? There are clearly patients who would undergo this service because of the cost, and the vast majority would prefer to stay in the states". Because American people LOVE to find any reason to litigate... and this is one of the reasons surgeons don't follow this practice....that's why...

 

quote Blake_Bloxham "Next, I frequently hear, in this thread and others, people commenting about "patients from the US flocking to places like Turkey for surgery." Now, I see a lot of patients from surrounding European countries going to Turkey for surgery, but not as many US patients. Can anyone give me links to these patients"? I met two Europeans excluding my self and my friend....on the same day from Holland and 1 from USA, now if you x that x 6 a week on average you might just get the picture, and thats one clinic... and Turkey has dozens of Clinics. is it becoming more clear now? If you need a link, take a look at mine.. lol

 

Last of all, the forum here should be first and foremost about patients and discovering the best results for the patients including best price as has been discussed many times. I don't care if I got great result form the martians on the moon so long as I am happy with those results. It doesn't matter where the results come from, and for sure there is no need to justify MY results, they speak for themselves.

 

I will not be happy if any of this gets edited by moderators, as this forum is supposed to be UNBIASED. And as mentioned you will not let my friend who traveled with me last time on my 2nd FUE post his results... I wonder why !! ?

 

Good luck to all of you who are searching for a way to cover your heads and walk out proud again as I have done.

Edited March 19, 2015 by britboy

[1966kph]

Blake i think you and other US ht drs are blinkered in your view of what is actually happening to your own industry in the US.

Two of the top 5 fue surgeons on the planet imo have moved to more tech involvement[ lorenzo and erdogan]to name but two with continued great results. Your point huge numbers of grafts being transferred are you saying erdogans results are poor yielding and the results are just because of the high numbers?

My clinic was being proposed for recommendation and bill himself said the results were very good but it all went pear shaped for reasons we can only guess at and now the clinics name isn't even allowed to be referenced and with no explanation other than it was to calm a forum that had already calmed weeks before the ban.

There are patients going from the US and if you can compose a long winded rant then i'm sure you can find the time to look for yourself but as i've said earlier in this thread its more that the patients are flocking to Turkey and Europe rather than going to the US.

 

Why are they doing it apart from the price its the skill level when it comes to fue and the size of the op's

Who would go from the US to have a 2000 graft procedure in Europe or turkey when they are a norwood 5-6-7 taking time off work and all the hassle that goes into traveling?

Now who would go to Europe or Turkey from the US being a norwood 5-6-7 and have a 4000-5000+ procedure done in one or two days and so combating more of their problem in one journey?

Same can be said for the reverse how many norwood 5-6-7 people are going to go to the US to try and be talked into fut rather than fue and if they stick with fue what they going to get for for the $12.000-$14.000 you quoted 3000ish grafts that on a norwood 5-6-7 is just not going to address their problem adequately.

For that money you can go to erdogan and get 5000 grafts at the hands of mainly techs were the dr spends less time with the patients than mine did me and the chances are the patient is going to be very very happy with the results.

Fut will be around for ever but mainly in the US were it gets pushed at people for whatever reason and as long as people arent prepared to travel they will always have people coming through the door.

I mean just look at the lengths your colleague David who has just been to for his resent fue with Dr bhatti if the skill level and price was available in the US why did he go to India?

If you did a poll now on this forum what do you think the result would be if asked to vote on which procedure members would choose all things considered ?

Fut or Fue ?

It might be closer than i think but i would be surprised if fut came out on top.

You give the customer what they want at the best prices and at the moment it appears that this is fue in europe or turkey or india or elsewhere and less and less the US.

 

Are you seriously trying to tell us that to meet our needs it should be fut in the US with physians doing the majority of the work for a higher price rather than our preferred technique were results are proven outstanding and at considerably less cost?

Why is erdogan,donagay and not long ago lorenzo held in such high esteem thats correct its the results they produce pure and simply and that's all any of us are after and to me it does not matter and bill said the same himself whose hands are on the tools is secondary.

Most people would concede that fut gives healthier grafts and therefore yield but all the downsides of fut outweigh the positives and this is why people are choosing fue and i think its that simple.

Blake your promise of your and other moderators support on my thread.shows just how biased and at times self serving and non patient orientated this forum can be.

We should all be here for one another discussing any and everything that could ease the suffering of others and censorship usually just serves the people who implement it not the masses.

Hopefully my results will show yet again that the model you condemn so vigorously is a option for those not afraid to veer off the long trodden route to the US for hair restoration.

You have a good day

 

 

.

I wanted to make a few other comments and address several other points:

 

First, 66, I want to address the following comment: (paraphrasing) "strip is on it's way out. I mean, you don't see any FUT clinics in Turkey."

 

I think the reason why you don't see strip clinics in Turkey is because it takes much more time and resources to properly run a practice that can offer patients strip when appropriate. Most technicians probably wouldn't feel comfortable removing a strip, and it seems like the industry in Turkey is moving toward technician-driven procedures. Frankly, I think this says a lot about this model. While I don't think a clinic needs to push strip on all patients, I do think the clinic should at least be capable of offering both procedures. This isn't possible without a doctor.

 

Next, I frequently hear, in this thread and others, people commenting about "patients from the US flocking to places like Turkey for surgery." Now, I see a lot of patients from surrounding European countries going to Turkey for surgery, but not as many US patients. Can anyone give me links to these patients?

 

Thanks for reading my long, long rant. Altogether, I think both strip and FUE have their place in modern hair transplant surgery. Some patients are better suited for strip; others are better suited for FUE. The "end goal" of surgical hair restoration will be a procedure with strip-level yield and FUE level scarring. Stay tuned for updates on that one ; )

[chrisdav]

Well well well... some great scaremongering there Blake..keep it coming...who'd have though it... Giant linear scars are better than FUE... thats without the deep sutures, removal of stitches, the pain, the ever disheartening visual aspect of old outdated FUT :eek:. the damage caused to donor area and potential grafts while being cut through with a blade the full length of the scare top and bottom. With FUT you can "microscopically dissect them into perfect follicular unit grafts" hahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Im choking... and finish up with dolls hair just like me and still after 3 FUT and corrective surgery by FUT, still remains dolls punching 4,5,6 hairs from one graft, great keep that FUT going, love it..... of course much of this depends upon the surgeon and clinic as with FUE, painless, no meat slicing here....... perfect extraction, perfect transplanting and perfect results if a good clinic is found and used with great technicians led by an excellent surgeon.... and folks, they are out there, you just need to look!

 

You are welcome to write your book on the subject if you like :-)....but the end results are what count... and my results were amazing with FUE

 

I'm sorry but a picture paints a thousand words....If anyone is thinking of HT look at FUE and forget Picasso linear scars created from the artists FUT surgeons. But then what do I know I've only had 3 FUT and two FUE's and I can say from experience that I would NEVER have had FUT and never would have chosen FUT if FUE had been available then. No scarring, no stitches, no endless worry about my scar showing, no loss of grafts due to top and bottom cuts.

 

Thank God we don't see Strip IN turkey because FUT is outdated and barbaric at the least, as for cost, Ive experienced a 80% reduction in the cost of my surgeries in Turkey and 3-4 times the results, thank you. I never believed in UK HT surgery and still dont generally, but I did once believe in USA HT surgery, but not anymore especially with the advent of FUE and the great results from Turkey. Lets hope the word 'Turkey' or 'Istanbul' is also not banned on this forum... like other words I know and I don't mean expledetives.

 

Good luck to all you choosing FUT, you will need it! Lol if you're interested take a look at my journey you will see its a miracle thanks only to FUE and as it happens in Turkey! Bald photos show results of 3 x FUT, d_9mos.jpg 1 x procedure FUE, check my thread and you will see I have have a second FUE and now waiting further reults...but then, what do I know, I'm only a patient !

 

Last of all, the forum here should be first and foremost about patients and discovering the best results for the patients including best price as has been discussed many times. I don't care if I got great result form the martians on the moon so long as I am happy with those results. It doesn't matter where the results come from, and for sure there is no need to justify MY results, they speak for themselves.

 

Good luck to all of you who are searching for a way to cover your heads and walk out proud again as I have done.

 

Britboy,

 

Do you think you would have had the results you gained via strip if you went to a top recommended surgeon using state of the art work in 2015 having had no surgery previous?

[KO]

Not sure what you guys are arguing about, there is no getting around the fact that FUT yields better and gives better hair, regardless of whether the surgeon is Lorenzo, Erdogan, Bhatti you name it.

[1966kph]

Are you going to go for fut ko?

If not why not?

Are you going to travel abroad for fue why are you?

These are the points being debated not which is better yielding.

Have a nice day

 

 

.

Most people would concede that fut gives healthier grafts and therefore yield but all the downsides of fut outweigh the positives and this is why people are choosing fue and i think its that simple.

[KO]

How do you know I'm going for FUE? I'm still deciding for the reason I mentioned, and that is the same reason why hopefully FUT does not go the way of the dodo as you advocate.

[1966kph]

Rather than go off on one try reading what I asked.

I do not know whether you are going fut or fue I asked.

You don't agree with what I and many others advocate fair enough you don't have to but just because you dont agree with a apposing veiw does not mean its dodo.

Were ever you go the best of luck to you be it fut or fue.

Have a good day

[britboy]

Most people would concede that fut gives healthier grafts and therefore yield but all the downsides of fut outweigh the positives and this is why people are choosing fue and i think its that simple.

 

I dont actually know as Im not a surgeon but I even would question the above, My best results came from FUE, without question.