Finasteride/ Propecia vs low labido and anxiety...is it worth it?

[Maccer]

Earlier in 2011, a study found that Finasteride caused long-term sexual dysfunction. Impotency and sexual problems, the researchers said, were the most common symptoms of the side effects. In some users, the side effects can not be avoided. Twenty percent from the respondents reported experiencing sexual dysfunction for more than six years after they stopped taking it.

 

The latest study, published in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, started from 61 findings of former Finasteride users who had experienced sexual disorders for more than three months. Among the respondents, 11 percent had mild depression, 28 percent had medium depression, and 36 percent experienced severe symptoms. 44 percent were reported to have suicidal thoughts.

 

My question is, would you rather have a full head of hair and chance not having a 'normal' sex drive and an increased possibility of drug related anxiety? Are you willing to take the chance of the possibility that your libido will be inhibited indefinitely (in some cases)? Are you also willing to take the chance of suffering psychological side affects that can affect your state of mental health?

 

The issue that is very apparent from this study is that most guys with alopecia are actually already anxious making them not great recipients of the drug. Finasteride and Propecia can only increase levels of anxiety which in turn causes more harm than good.

 

Most Drs do not even discuss the side affects when prescribing.

 

Has anyone on this forum had any of the issues stated above, or other side effects that are not talked about.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Maccer

[lessthanme]

according to me the real depression is losing hair... if i would benefit using it I will be very happy and not depressed...

[TommyLucchese]

Been on Propecia for 4 yers, still have a high libido and ability to 'perform'.

[Maccer]

Hi Tommy

 

I can't be more happy for you that the Finasteride helping and doesn't cause any side effects but unfortunately I'm afraid this evidently is not the case for everyone....

[Shampoo]

Earlier in 2011, a study found that Finasteride caused long-term sexual dysfunction. Impotency and sexual problems,

 

All drugs cause side effects.

Google "Bayer Aspirin side effects" you'll see.

If you Google my acid reflux drug there are "horror stories".

If you Google most medical prcedures there are "horror stories".

The drug ads on TV are almost comical the way they

start listing in a very fast pace all the "possible" side effects

in the drug being advertised.

 

Even if major side-effects were as high as 20%

that would still mean 80% dont get them.

Most studies show only a small perecentage of patients

suffer serious long term negative effects from taking

Finasteride. Of course the few that do are going to

scream "HORROR". I think it is sometimes difficult

for the unlucky few that dont tolerate a drug to

understand or really believe that most people

are fine with the drug and do not react the way they do.

 

Most of the top, most respected hair surgeons in the world

recommend their patients take Finasteride.

[Spanker]

I feel like 20 percent is much higher than accurate. I feel like I read that the difference in side effects from a placebo and fin is only about 1 percent.

 

I know that doesn't help if you are the one to get it.

 

For me, it was worth the try just to answer your question.

[Maccer]

Lets put sexual dysfunction aside for the moment, I agree, side effects are common with any drug but my point is, why use a drug that is prone (overwhelming research evidence) to heightening anxiety where there is evidence that suggests that the drug is being used by recipients that can be considered to be a higher risk of mental health problems? To me, that doesn't sound ethical. I think there needs to be more measures in place to protect at risk users..

[Shampoo]

I feel like 20 percent is much higher than accurate. I feel like I read that the difference in side effects from a placebo and fin is only about 1 percent.

I know that doesn't help if you are the one to get it. For me, it was worth the try just to answer your question.

 

Absolutely Spanker....most studies have shown it to be no where close to 20%, but I was just taking the worse case scenario for the sake of the argument. Propecia has been a very safe drug for most patients and that's why world respected hair surgeons are advising their patients to take it. And like you say the small amount of patients...the unlucky ones...that do not tolerate it...dont want to hear how good it is.

[Shampoo]

Lets put sexual dysfunction aside for the moment, I agree, side effects are common with any drug but my point is, why use a drug that is prone (overwhelming research evidence) to heightening anxiety where there is evidence that suggests that the drug is being used by recipients that can be considered to be a higher risk of mental health problems? To me, that doesn't sound ethical. I think there needs to be more measures in place to protect at risk users..

 

Even drugs for anxiety like Xanax can in some cases make anxiety worse.

Again all drugs have side effects for some people.

Do a Google search "can Xanax make anxiety worse?"

There are tons of search results about that very thing.

Does that somehow mean it is unethical to prescribe Xanax if it helps millions of people?

 

I think if you don't want to take it..or it causes side effect....don't take it,

but don't try to limit it for the vast majority that tolerate it and it helps preserve our hair.

[Shacked]

I read in to the few negative voices on the internet regarding side effects of finasteride. Wish I didn't as I wasted a year before getting on it. Every drug has side effects...anti-smoking drugs can make people seriously suicidal!

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who experienced side effects imagine some of them, or have a predisposition via prior minor sexual disfunction's. When people say that they have decreased libido and ejactulates, I think its such BS. Unless you are a sex addict, and if you are busy, sex drive goes up and down. Flick on some porn and tell me that you don't get a boner! Also, ejaculate volume, viscosity etc vary dramatically with temperature, diet, exercise etc.

 

I would advice any healthy guy to use fin and not listen to the ney-sayers. I have a friend that goes red and flushed when he drinks spirits. That's unusual. Won't stop me drinking them.

 

Maccer, please give me the reference for the study you are referring to. An n of 61 is by no means adequate for a clinical trial. Furthermore I am guessing that it wasn't even a clinical trial but just a questionnaire, which isn't objective science. This is the kind of bullshit data you see on makeup TV commercials where 40 of 60 women said they definitely "felt" and "looked" younger after applying the makeup. Massively biased data which isn't at all a reliable indicator of the actual affect of the drug. The PROPER medical trials of finasteride were done on upwards of 20,000 people. Double-blind trials!

[Spanker]

I read in to the few negative voices on the internet regarding side effects of finasteride. Wish I didn't as I wasted a year before getting on it. Every drug has side effects...anti-smoking drugs can make people seriously suicidal!

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who experienced side effects imagine some of them, or have a predisposition via prior minor sexual disfunction's. When people say that they have decreased libido and ejactulates, I think its such BS. Unless you are a sex addict, and if you are busy, sex drive goes up and down. Flick on some porn and tell me that you don't get a boner! Also, ejaculate volume, viscosity etc vary dramatically with temperature, diet, exercise etc.

 

I would advice any healthy guy to use fin and not listen to the ney-sayers. I have a friend that goes red and flushed when he drinks spirits. That's unusual. Won't stop me drinking them.

 

Maccer, please give me the reference for the study you are referring to. An n of 61 is by no means adequate for a clinical trial. Furthermore I am guessing that it wasn't even a clinical trial but just a questionnaire, which isn't objective science. This is the kind of bullshit data you see on makeup TV commercials where 40 of 60 women said they definitely "felt" and "looked" younger after applying the makeup. Massively biased data which isn't at all a reliable indicator of the actual affect of the drug. The PROPER medical trials of finasteride were done on upwards of 20,000 people. Double-blind trials!

 

This!

 

Good post. I clicked on this thread to give an opinion based on the title which indicated it was someone looking for answers. Instead it seems like a deceptive title for someone who has really bad and inaccurate data and has already made up his mind. The title should reflect that. This seems to be an anti fin thread, and that's ok, but it shouldn't be masked as someone seeking advice.

 

That said, I'll agree that hair loss increases depression and anxiety, but I don't know what taking fin has to do with it. I feel positive I would be more anxious and depressed if I were not treating my mpb with fin, because I think it works and I feel empowered that I am taking action instead of just being a victim of the mpb gene.

[Maccer]

I read in to the few negative voices on the internet regarding side effects of finasteride. Wish I didn't as I wasted a year before getting on it. Every drug has side effects...anti-smoking drugs can make people seriously suicidal!

I wouldn't be surprised if most people who experienced side effects imagine some of them, or have a predisposition via prior minor sexual disfunction's. When people say that they have decreased libido and ejactulates, I think its such BS. Unless you are a sex addict, and if you are busy, sex drive goes up and down. Flick on some porn and tell me that you don't get a boner! Also, ejaculate volume, viscosity etc vary dramatically with temperature, diet, exercise etc.

 

I would advice any healthy guy to use fin and not listen to the ney-sayers. I have a friend that goes red and flushed when he drinks spirits. That's unusual. Won't stop me drinking them.

 

Maccer, please give me the reference for the study you are referring to. An n of 61 is by no means adequate for a clinical trial. Furthermore I am guessing that it wasn't even a clinical trial but just a questionnaire, which isn't objective science. This is the kind of bullshit data you see on makeup TV commercials where 40 of 60 women said they definitely "felt" and "looked" younger after applying the makeup. Massively biased data which isn't at all a reliable indicator of the actual affect of the drug. The PROPER medical trials of finasteride were done on upwards of 20,000 people. Double-blind trials!

 

Here's the reference....unsure if I am allowed to post the link but here goes GW Researcher Finds Depressive Symptoms and Suicidal Thoughts in Many Former Finasteride (Propecia) Users with Persistent Sexual Dysfunction | The School of Medicine & Health Sciences | The George Washington University

[Spanker]

If it gets deleted, which I don't think it will because I didn't see anything promotional and it's a .edu site, you can post the text. The big problem with this study is that it was that it was done on 61 men (former fin users) with e.d. problems who tried to combat hair loss with fin (not 61 random fin users), using a control group who only had mpb who may or may not have had a problem with their hair loss. This throws the study off because 1. It doesn't take into account that some people don't find hair loss emotionally traumatic or disturbing in the control group but all of the 61 did something to fight it and were not able to with fin. 2. It doesn't take into account the emotional trauma of e.d. in the control group which may or may not have been induced by the use of fin. 3. It doesn't prove any causation between fin and e.d.

 

It's like judging a restaurant by studying 61 guys who gave a one star review and 29 guys who have eaten.

 

I hope no tax dollars went into that study, because it was poorly done.

[hsrp10]

I am one who is kind of a weird responder to Fin, the results are mixed and sides are odd like greasy scalp etc..

But I know it works well for some, so I just try to relay my experience and mention Fin does help others with their hairloss.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to go an aggressive campaign to try to steer people away from the drug.

Educate people and let them make their own choices.

[Spanker]

So you will notice from the link that it is a clinical and definitely recognised data.

 

Spanker...you agree that hair loss causes depression. I hope you can now see that in many cases fin can also exacerbate the symptom with continual use...

 

Sorry man. Sure, there probably is a correlation in fin use and depression because hair loss can cause depression, but unfortunately many people don't see that there is a difference in correlation and causation, and bogus studies like these put undue fear on people that could actually have their hair loss worries quelled for years with fin.

 

I'm not saying that there is zero percent chance of having a side effect from fin, but studies prove that the chances of it are very low (just above a placebo). Many problems that occur, like e.d. happen in aging men, with our without fin and I think many of the sides are psychological due to hair loss and the toll it can take on one's self esteem.

 

If anyone with any kind of education or intelligence is going to take fin threats serious (beyond the actual small actual chance of side effects), better rebuttal studies than this will have to be done. I actually find it kind of insulting that the author thinks that his readers can't see through it.

[Maccer]

Nobody is trying to steer anyone away from using Finasteride....it's just an opposite view on the debate, everyone is an adult and I am sure they will make their own minds up in the end based on whatever view point they take...

[Spanker]

Actually I would say that person who has experienced being a user and a non user is more credible than a non user only to speak on the use of a product. I have been on both sides and I have more of a vested interest in the safety of the product than the non user.

 

Most of what I'm saying is not based on assumption but like stated above, a double blind study of almost 2000 men instead of less than 100 men who were chosen in a way that would cause a failing grade in a middle school science fair.

 

Attached is a screen shot of the most commonly found dude effects. We're talking about .5 percent chance or less for each side when compared to placebo. I welcome any legitimate study, but for most people who really read the study you posted and use logic to come to a conclusion, this is worse PR for GWU than for finasteride.

[Spanker]

If you can point me to one double blind study close to as extensive as Merk's that proves causation of sides from fin use that is near the levels that your first article tries to "prove" I'll be very impressed, concerned for my safety, and thankful to you for bringing it to my attention.

 

Please note that I'm not saying there are not people with legitimate sides, just that the chances are very low and that people should not be scared into not doing something about their hair loss by using pseudo-scientific statistical manipulation.

[Rootz]

Here's the reference....unsure if I am allowed to post the link but here goes GW Researcher Finds Depressive Symptoms and Suicidal Thoughts in Many Former Finasteride (Propecia) Users with Persistent Sexual Dysfunction | The School of Medicine & Health Sciences | The George Washington University

 

I don't understand. I read the first sentence in this link then stopped. It's a study of only people who had side effects. It's not surprising large percentages of these people have anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc. It's like interviewing people who were involved in serious car accidents and concluding say 30% had depression... then using that study to suggest driving cars is not worth it because driving causes depression. Am I missing something here?

 

Every credible study I've found on Fin has shown around a 2% or less chance of side effects, and I believe a large percentage of that <2% are placebo or would have had issues had they been on nothing.

[Spanker]

I don't understand. I read the first sentence in this link then stopped. It's a study of only people who had side effects. It's not surprising large percentages of these people have anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc. It's like interviewing people who were involved in serious car accidents and concluding say 30% had depression... then using that study to suggest driving cars is not worth it because driving causes depression. Am I missing something here?

 

Every credible study I've found on Fin has shown around a 2% or less chance of side effects, and I believe a large percentage of that <2% are placebo or would have had issues had they been on nothing.

You're not missing anything from the article. You hit the nail on the head in your analysis of the article.

[Shacked]

Here's the reference....unsure if I am allowed to post the link but here goes GW Researcher Finds Depressive Symptoms and Suicidal Thoughts in Many Former Finasteride (Propecia) Users with Persistent Sexual Dysfunction | The School of Medicine & Health Sciences | The George Washington University

 

I may have access to this journal at work, but it is pretty low tier so maybe not. My advice to anyone making claims about the pros and cons of sciences based work is to read the ACTUAL article before discussing it. You have read a press release on it. I will read the paper and give objective criticism this week. My first impressions are that it is a very small scale study, from which conclusions can not be firmly based. I will update with my thoughts soon.

 

J

[Shacked]

Lol....and guess what? We know what the outcome will be...I am also wondering what consultancy clinic you are connected to...? Just a question....

 

I am finishing my PhD in evolutionary genetics. I study immunogenetics in vertebrates. No company. No salary. Just a passion for science.

 

I think you just highlighted very clearly what your problem is: You assume an outcome before actually understanding the situation.

 

Objectivity NOT subjectivity!

[Spanker]

Another issue that I notice is that it is well within your interest to defend any hair loss products due to your consultancy role as you state

 

' Iam an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior of Chicago Hair

I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice'.

 

This only adds to your biased opinion as it is important for you to market your stance here on the forum...next you will be telling me that lazor combs actually work...it is quite transparent....and I do worry for many vulnerable members when there are blatantly consultants power selling and appealing to their insecurities....sorry had to be said.

 

I, nor the doctor that I represent have any financial interest in finasteride. My doctor performs hair transplants and doesn't sell products like lasers or finasteride. I've seen no proof that laser combs work. Your point is pretty ridiculous. I'm saying that fin can help save your hair. Hair that the doctor I represent will not have to transplant on you should you choose to have surgery and therefore doesn't get paid for. Favoring a product that can save your hair that I nor my doctor has a financial interest in is the exact opposite of what it seems you are accusing me of.

 

My integrity which you are questioning is worth far more than any interest I have in my online representation and the physician I represent is one of the most respected in the business. He doesn't have to peddle products and I don't have power sell anything. His website is linked in my signature. You can go there and see if you can buy a hair product. I get my fin at Wal-Mart and pay just over 2 dollars for a month's supply without using insurance. Real money for someone, huh.

 

It seems like now instead of searching for all of those legitimate studies that don't exist that support your claims you are just reaching for something to discredit what I'm saying . Like the fact that I'm an online rep will make that article any less skewed.

 

There are no reps on this site that power sell that I have seen. But if it really concerns you, you should start a thread on it and source all of the power selling going on around here. I'd like to see that almost as much as I'd like to see all of the studies that prove how toxic and dangerous finasteride is.

 

I don't believe that Shacked is a rep. All reps are required to have that information in their signature. You should try not to be paranoid that everyone who may see through the article you posted has some kind of sinister evil mastermind of a plan. Sometimes people just have views based on the best data available, without any motivation but the truth, which is what Shacked was trying to say. It didn't seem that he was taking a side, but that he would investigate further.

 

I'm not mad at you and not trying to be confrontational, but there is going to be someone five years from now reading through these posts and they don't need fuzzy math articles swaying them away from something that can help them. There are people on this site that have had sides, and I believe them and feel for them, but real sides are not near as prevalent as you are trying to say they are, so I have to call you out on that. If you yourself were having sides I would tell you that I'm sorry to hear that and advise you to try minox, but I feel that what you are attempting to do is based on misinformation and not good for the vast majority of hair loss sufferers. I have no tangible interest in saying these things, I just want people to make informed opinions.

[Maccer]

Hi Spanker

 

On a lighter note... I do take your points and understand that the study I am referring to is on a small scale and doesn't always reflect the wider population. Mine and your interests at heart are the same and that is protect vulnerable people with honesty, although this industry is full of business' trying to make a buck from those of an insecure nature. I can only apologise for labelling you in the same way. My intention is not to rule out finasteride. I am looking to achieve the same goals as you to find the truth and I can see this from the informative study you proposed.

 

My aim is simply to understand the anxiety pertained to hair loss and maybe I should have not had such a personal take on the overall approach but still stand by the fact that there does need to be more regulation of the drug as it is so freely available without first understanding the underline side-effects albeit so far a small percentage from your knowledge base. This can only be a good thing....education...education....I look forward to conversing with you again.

[Shampoo]

protect vulnerable people with honesty, ..education...education....I look forward to conversing with you again.

 

Maccer I agree a better job could be done by doctors to explain the rare but possible side effects of finasteride, especially with guys that suffer from some form of anxiety or other psychological disorders.

 

You allude to some questionable practices within the hair transplant industry (all industries have bad apples), but I would think the majority of finasteride prescriptions are prescribed by primary care physicians. I know tons of guys on finasteride and none of them have ever seen a transplant doctor because they either can't afford a transplant and/or do not see a transplant as an option.

 

Also one other thing to consider.....is it is great to be concerned about "the vulnerable" guys that could have some negative side effects, but what about all "the vulnerable" guys that have had a positive result not only with their hair but also with their self-esteem because finasteride helped them from going bald?