Maccer

Hi Spanker On a lighter note... I do take your points and understand that the study I am referring to is on a small scale and doesn't always reflect the wider population. Mine and your interests at heart are the same and that is protect vulnerable people with honesty, although this industry is full of business' trying to make a buck from those of an insecure nature. I can only apologise for labelling you in the same way. My intention is not to rule out finasteride. I am looking to achieve the same goals as you to find the truth and I can see this from the informative study you proposed. My aim is simply to understand the anxiety pertained to hair loss and maybe I should have not had such a personal take on the overall approach but still stand by the fact that there does need to be more regulation of the drug as it is so freely available without first understanding the underline side-effects albeit so far a small percentage from your knowledge base. This can only be a good thing....education...education....I look forward to conversing with you again.

Nobody is trying to steer anyone away from using Finasteride....it's just an opposite view on the debate, everyone is an adult and I am sure they will make their own minds up in the end based on whatever view point they take...

Here's the reference....unsure if I am allowed to post the link but here goes GW Researcher Finds Depressive Symptoms and Suicidal Thoughts in Many Former Finasteride (Propecia) Users with Persistent Sexual Dysfunction | The School of Medicine & Health Sciences | The George Washington University

Lets put sexual dysfunction aside for the moment, I agree, side effects are common with any drug but my point is, why use a drug that is prone (overwhelming research evidence) to heightening anxiety where there is evidence that suggests that the drug is being used by recipients that can be considered to be a higher risk of mental health problems? To me, that doesn't sound ethical. I think there needs to be more measures in place to protect at risk users..

Hi Tommy I can't be more happy for you that the Finasteride helping and doesn't cause any side effects but unfortunately I'm afraid this evidently is not the case for everyone....

Earlier in 2011, a study found that Finasteride caused long-term sexual dysfunction. Impotency and sexual problems, the researchers said, were the most common symptoms of the side effects. In some users, the side effects can not be avoided. Twenty percent from the respondents reported experiencing sexual dysfunction for more than six years after they stopped taking it. The latest study, published in the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, started from 61 findings of former Finasteride users who had experienced sexual disorders for more than three months. Among the respondents, 11 percent had mild depression, 28 percent had medium depression, and 36 percent experienced severe symptoms. 44 percent were reported to have suicidal thoughts. My question is, would you rather have a full head of hair and chance not having a 'normal' sex drive and an increased possibility of drug related anxiety? Are you willing to take the chance of the possibility that your libido will be inhibited indefinitely (in some cases)? Are you also willing to take the chance of suffering psychological side affects that can affect your state of mental health? The issue that is very apparent from this study is that most guys with alopecia are actually already anxious making them not great recipients of the drug. Finasteride and Propecia can only increase levels of anxiety which in turn causes more harm than good. Most Drs do not even discuss the side affects when prescribing. Has anyone on this forum had any of the issues stated above, or other side effects that are not talked about.

Hiya This I believe has a lot to do with their social market value (SMV), like with most guys i see that are balding or bald they try to balance out the effect by improving another part of their body, for example they would tend to focus on improving their body and getting buff or something similar, this in-turn will satisfy to extent. If you think of people like Bruce Willis and Kelly Slater (pro surfer) and many others their SMV is very high, they have the cars, the house, financial security, the attention, they belong etc... it's simply not an issue that is high on their agenda, as their social currency is of high value...

I feel the need to highlight some of the myths associated with the Kubler-Ross stages (KR) or stages of grief based off of my own professional experience and research as it has been a subject of discussion and the possible association to hair-loss as a model. The biggest issues with the KR stages are that it is not a product of scientific research, therefore lacks any credibility of fact. Much of what of her research is based off of her 'own' views on death which is a very blinkered view. She even states in her book 'On death and dying' , how do you do research on dying, when the data is so impossible to get? When you cannot verify your data and cannot set up experiments? Her way of testing the stages was to study terminally patients. This was simply set-up as an interview and observation project whereby several of her student colleagues were observing. They would then collate and discuss all their observations and and personal views. KR also stated that by interviewing a lot patients, that they would 'get a feeling' from the terminally ill. 'Getting a feeling' is quite revealing and can only suggest that the results would be of a personal nature and structured by her life long unresolved grief. (her own personal grief story was highlighted in her book 'On grief and grieving'.) In 2007 the journal of the American Medical Association published the results of the Yale Bereavement Study (YBS), first of all, the study makes an assumption that the stages of grief even exist and then attempts to use that assumption to prove that they do actually exist. This to me is simply flawed before it began, no scientific evidence to even validate the accusation. The YBS then concludes that the notion that a natural psychological response to loss involves an orderly progression through distinct stages of bereavement has been 'widely accepted by clinicians and the general public'. Again when did 'widely accepted replace scientific study or even equal scientific fact'? The stages themselves could actually cause more harm than good as they are implying that time is the component (word 'stage', implying time). Lets start with DENIAL, this can only limit a person psychologically as it would stunt them into inaction and bury their feelings waiting for time to make the stages pass. Which in turn would cause issues later on in therapy trying unearth deeply hidden emotions. ANGER, basically there is no action for the griever to take action to end it. Basically it is suggested that they must stay angry for as long (time again, so no resolve) as it lasts. This is very damaging and if felt for too long will evidently take effect and ruin relationships and health. BARGAINING, this will simply create a sense of victimology and a feeling of being disconnected to everyone else making you feel even more isolated, this can only cause professionally induced harm, as the persons feelings become validated and again time will stagnate all positive resource. DEPRESSION, to suggest that all grievers are clinically depressed is overly stated, as it is quite normal for grievers to feel emotional turmoil when a loved one passes away as there is a natural bereavement process . Grief is a normal reaction to death but clinical depression is abnormal and requires treatment. The line between grief-related depression and clinical diagnosed depression is definitely very blurred. ACCEPTANCE, this is an odd term to use as anyone that had experienced the death of a loved one had to accept that death had occurred. So slightly confusing.. I think grief is unique to everyone and everyone deals with grief in different ways, there is simply no way of defining one persons coping mechanism against someone else's without scientific study. If we look at different cultures we will note that death is dealt with in so many different ways, some even celebrate, so the above is simply not even evident. So really dealing with death can only be determined by the society or cultural background of the person....

In my experience stress is a major cause of eczema flare ups but smoking cant help....manage your cognition and thinking and you will find the eczema will lessen...M

Hi all I am looking to understand what other hair loss sufferers feel the underlying cause is and why they feel the way they do with some personal accounts of how they feel hair loss has impacted, affected them socially and personally. I have tried to relay this with my own personal account but would very much appreciate a wider opinion. Many thanks in advance.

Hi BeardedOne Thank you for your reply and question, I have also posted a reply on my other duplicated thread 'Sex, Woman and Hair loss', (http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174868-sex-woman-hair-loss.html) as I felt the title of this thread was a little bland and couldn't delete it afterwards. In reply to your question, I am looking to understand what a hair loss sufferer feels the underlying cause is and why they feel the way they do with some personal accounts of how they feel hair loss has impacted, affected them socially and personally. I hope this helps and many thanks.

Yes i think it could have a detrimental effect on SMV... There has been research that has addressed the subject whereby a dating website posted a fictitious profile of a man with hair and the same man with no hair (photo-shopped, completely bald) and the results after 2 months were unanimous as women dating on the internet were five times more likely to contact men with a full head of hair, rather than those who are bald or balding. The man with hair got 108 responses. As for the bald guy he only received 22 responses...

Please see an interview that included me on 'This Morning' UK. My hair was very receded but I had disguised the overall loss. **outside link removed by moderator**

I started to lose my hair in my late 20's which for me was like experiencing an impairment of my face that just wouldn't disappear. I hated the feeling of losing something that made me, me. My hair is my crown and glory, it has always been something I have been proud of and has been a way of communicating my individuality and creativity, simply to me, its the icing on my cake. I see my hair as an expression of my personal uniqueness, without it I felt bare. Like a tie accompanies a shirt, my hair balances and compliments my features, so losing my hair wasn't an option. Even throughout history, hair has been a preoccupation of the ages, where wigs were worn as a sign hierarchy and power, this is how the term big wigs was coined. Hannibal wore his wig to slaughter and carried a second for social occasions just in case he needed to impress, even Julius Caesar hid his balding scalp behind a wreath, endlessly searching for some resolve to the issue! To me hair is important in so many ways, in evolutionary terms man is a product of his primal drives, he is genetically hard wired to search out & win a mate in order to procreate & pass on his genes. Hair essentially communicates a man's health and virility to the opposite sex. Just like in other species hair loss can dictate a subjects value in the pecking order of society. Just as a lions mane when it thins or a peacocks feathers when they fall out, desirability is considerably lessened. Most men feel they become deficient & defective in some way to the opposite sex, which can lead to them to no longer feeling respected and valued in society. In a world where man's role was once the hunter-gatherer & procurer of resources, this is no longer the case. Women have now entered the work force & become providers in their own right. Woman's role is no longer just to nurture and bring up the children, but to live as equals in every respect. Women wanted equality, this in turn lead to feminist liberation where women sort to have a level playing field, not only did women already have the overall evolutionary sexual selection power by being the choosier sex, women now no longer need man for his bread and butter. Instead, women can now be even choosier: with her keen eye sorting the chaff from the wheat, she is now looking and can afford to have only the best physically and mentally. Men are now having to reconsider their position, which can now mean only one thing...that masculinity & modern man are now in crisis! In an age where self-image is now idolised, beauty has become the new form of social currency, it defines our Social Market Value (SMV). Our orientation to the opposite sex has changed drastically...men no longer just want to look, he wants to be looked at. He doesn't just want to desire, he now craves to be desired. Fashion and glamour has taken over and seems to be the new power, from adverts for guy liner, moisturisers to mankup, from the mankini to meggings, the male grooming list goes on and on. An industry which is set to exceed ?33 billion pounds by 2015 worldwide! These pressures begin to take their toll, all the while mans self worth and self esteem fluctuating in comparison to the SMV 100. Big business knows this only too well, as it seeks to understand our insecurities by appealing to our needs for a quick fix, that just simply doesn't exist. Every man now has a value on his head, he has become a commodity and this major shift in society has subjected man to feel his self worth devalue when experiencing hair loss! This has lead men to experience great anxiety and pain in a need to live up to these societal ideals. In a study of 1000 men who experienced hair loss, it was noted that anxiety has increased & self esteem (62%) had hit the rock bottom. Men also reported relationships becoming affected (38%). Man's pain is very real when he loses his hair, as (3%) of men have contemplated suicidal thoughts at some point, only for the doctor to diagnose depression (21%) determining that you feel socially anxious, vulnerable, and alone which in hindsight was never the cause. This just becomes another statistic and the matter is given no real second thought". As a psychotherapist & hair loss sufferer this has permitted me unique perspective on the issue from my own experiences and through the experiences of others. On the 13th of November, I underwent a procedure of 3600 FUE grafts with Dr Bhatti In Chandigarh, India. I will post further info about my progression in the future as my results come to fruition! I praise such resources like these hair loss forums as they provide a unique and important service that without them, men would be at a loss. I am without a doubt, sure that those percentages previously discussed (depression and suicidal thoughts) are actually decreased because of these platforms providing a support base. I would be grateful of your feedback and would like to know your experiences of hair loss and what your greatest challenge was when you discovered that you were losing your hair. You can email me privately with your thoughts. I have run a busy practice for the last 10 years, but if anyone is interested, I would be happy to offer a free 30min Skype session to offer you some help & support. Many thanks for taking the time out to read my musings.

Hi all, I started to lose my hair in my late 20's which for me was like experiencing an impairment of my face that just wouldn't disappear. I hated the feeling of losing something that made me, me. My hair is my crown and glory, it has always been something I have been proud of and has been a way of communicating my individuality and creativity, simply to me, its the icing on my cake. I see my hair as an expression of my personal uniqueness, without it I felt bare. Like a tie accompanies a shirt, my hair balances and compliments my features, so losing my hair wasn't an option. Even throughout history, hair has been a preoccupation of the ages, where wigs were worn as a sign hierarchy and power, this is how the term big wigs was coined. Hannibal wore his wig to slaughter and carried a second for social occasions just in case he needed to impress, even Julius Caesar hid his balding scalp behind a wreath, endlessly searching for some resolve to the issue! To me hair is important in so many ways, in evolutionary terms man is a product of his primal drives, he is genetically hard wired to search out & win a mate in order to procreate & pass on his genes. Hair essentially communicates a man's health and virility to the opposite sex. Just like in other species hair loss can dictate a subjects value in the pecking order of society. Just as a lions mane when it thins or a peacocks feathers when they fall out, desirability is considerably lessened. Most men feel they become deficient & defective in some way to the opposite sex, which can lead to them to no longer feeling respected and valued in society. In a world where man's role was once the hunter-gatherer & procurer of resources, this is no longer the case. Women have now entered the work force & become providers in their own right. Woman's role is no longer just to nurture and bring up the children, but to live as equals in every respect. Women wanted equality, this in turn lead to feminist liberation where women sort to have a level playing field, not only did women already have the overall evolutionary sexual selection power by being the choosier sex, women now no longer need man for his bread and butter. Instead, women can now be even choosier: with her keen eye sorting the chaff from the wheat, she is now looking and can afford to have only the best physically and mentally. Men are now having to reconsider their position, which can now mean only one thing...that masculinity & modern man are now in crisis! In an age where self-image is now idolised, beauty has become the new form of social currency, it defines our Social Market Value (SMV). Our orientation to the opposite sex has changed drastically...men no longer just want to look, he wants to be looked at. He doesn't just want to desire, he now craves to be desired. Fashion and glamour has taken over and seems to be the new power, from adverts for guy liner, moisturisers to mankup, from the mankini to meggings, the male grooming list goes on and on. An industry which is set to exceed ?33 billion pounds by 2015 worldwide! These pressures begin to take their toll, all the while mans self worth and self esteem fluctuating in comparison to the SMV 100. Big business knows this only too well, as it seeks to understand our insecurities by appealing to our needs for a quick fix, that just simply doesn't exist. Every man now has a value on his head, he has become a commodity and this major shift in society has subjected man to feel his self worth devalue when experiencing hair loss! This has lead men to experience great anxiety and pain in a need to live up to these societal ideals. In a study of 1000 men who experienced hair loss, it was noted that anxiety has increased & self esteem (62%) had hit the rock bottom. Men also reported relationships becoming affected (38%). Man's pain is very real when he loses his hair, as (3%) of men have contemplated suicidal thoughts at some point, only for the doctor to diagnose depression (21%) determining that you feel socially anxious, vulnerable, and alone which in hindsight was never the cause. This just becomes another statistic and the matter is given no real second thought". As a psychotherapist & hair loss sufferer this has permitted me unique perspective on the issue from my own experiences and through the experiences of others. On the 13th of November, I underwent a procedure of 3600 FUE grafts with Dr Bhatti In Chandigarh, India. I will post further info about my progression in the future as my results come to fruition! I praise such resources like these hair loss forums as they provide a unique and important service that without them, men would be at a loss. I am without a doubt, sure that those percentages previously discussed (depression and suicidal thoughts) are actually decreased because of these platforms providing a support base. I would be grateful of your feedback and would like to know your experiences of hair loss and what your greatest challenge was when you discovered that you were losing your hair. You can email me privately with your thoughts. I have run a busy practice for the last 10 years, but if anyone is interested, I would be happy to offer a free 30min Skype session to offer you some help & support. Many thanks for taking the time out to read my musings.