FUE or FUT? Feriduni or Feller?

[Steve2468]

Hi,

 

I’m 28 years old and am NW III/IV. This is my first post but I have been reading several forums and have had a few online consultations.

 

I have decided to proceed with a HT and have a shortlisted two surgeons:

1. Feriduni

2. Feller

 

Both have suggested I need up to 3,000 grafts. Feriduni has advised this can be achieved with FUE or FUT and Feller FUT. I have read about the pros and cons of each FUE and FUT, but am no closer to reaching a decision as to which I should go for. My heart says FUE but I would go for FUT if the end result was better.

 

Feriduni’s clinic advised they could achieve the same result with both which was encouraging, but Feller’s website claims that FUE does not achieve the same consistency of results hence my confusion. Interestingly, although the price of FUT with Feller and Feriduni are comparable, according to Feller’s website 3,000 FUE would cost a whopping $30,000 (@$10/graft) nearly three times the price of FUE with Feriduni.

 

Would appreciate your views.

 

Thanks

[Spanker]

I think that they are both comparable at FUE. I personally fell like Dr Feller's FUE is overpriced, but you should go with what surgeon you think will give you the best result. I have seen both outstanding and lacking HT's from both (FUE). Research enough on the forum and you will see both the great and the "meh" results. 3,000 is a lot of FUE to do in one day. It is heavily debated, but I think 3k grafts should be broken up into 2 days when doing FUE. Good luck.

 

I agree with Feller and think that FUT is going to give the most consistent result, but you can get great results from either method.

[chrisdav]

Steve2468,

 

They are both excellent surgeons Steve so you will not go wrong in that respect.

 

I had 1900 from Dr Feller travelling from the UK after two poor surgeries, and have had excellent results.

 

If you didn't have a lot of hair loss, then an FUE of a smaller size would be more suitable I think.

 

However, if you are have such loss at the age of 28 on the Norwood scale NW III/IV as you have stated, then the chances are you will lose more hair as you get older, and more likely to if you are not taking any medication as you age.

 

Fut is the best way to faciliate that demand.

 

I am still am yet to see the consistency of dense, full results of 3000 sized fue sessions that match the consistently top results of the same size produced by gold standard strip from the leading clinics.

 

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Edited December 8, 2012 by chrisdav

[agenteye]

Steve2468,

 

No doubt you're going to get excellent results from either of the surgeons you mentioned. Obviously if you opt for FUE, your decision is already made for you. If you opt for FUT....again, you have 2 excellent doctors to choose from! If you need 3000+ grafts, I definitely think you should go the FUT route myself. It is still the "gold standard" for restoration, and with either of the above surgeons performing the procedure, you can be certain you are going to get an amazingly fine scar that is barely visible.....even at shorter hair lengths!!

 

Whatever you decide to do....keep us posted on the forums here.....and I look forward to following you on your journey!

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Mickey85]

Hi there Steve,

 

I don't know if we have spoken however Dr Feller would not do FUE on a patient with your amount of loss. He simply knows the outcome would not compare to a 3000 strip session and would not take your money.

 

Be careful and research / understand the limitations of HT surgery and especially the limitations FUE presents.

 

Everyone would prefer FUE however on patients with larger loss patterns Strip is definitely a better option in my opinion in order to harvest the appropriate number of grafts safely in one session whilst maintain high consistent yields.

 

 

This is my opinion based on a great number of patients I have liased with over the years.

If I can help in anyway feel free to email me as happy to help if I can

 

Best

Spex

 

Sorry but i have to ask; what about those doctors that regularly perform large and successful fue results?Doctors like Bisanga, mwamba, de reys, lorenzo, erdogan and feriduni? When you say dr feller knows the result will be better via strip it is implying that he is eithers not as confident with his fue work as he is with his strip work OR he doesnt believe the other doctors performing large sessions are getting successful results. Which is it because it certainly cannot be both. If he blames the technique itself, then why does it work for other doctors? This isnt an attack, i just want to know his sentiments on this topic that you seen to be very vocal about.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Mickey85
typos

[Mickey85]

Dr Feller is VERY confident with his FUE work hence why he offers it and has one of the best reputations in the industry for it and has done for 10 years. I was repaired by FUE with him and the results are nothing short of remarkable. He knows FUE has its place, despite what you wish to believe, that it is equal to strip for mega sessions.

 

Dr Feller knows as do i that mega session FUE is not as consistent and nowhere near as consistent as strip, as we see and help many patients who have FUE mega sessions from a range of clinics.

 

Do you think clinics performing mega session FUE's post ALL their work ?!

 

Or do you think that they might simply post their better results....

 

I have personally had 6 FUE procedures.

 

Have you had FUE?

 

Have you had mega session FUE ?

 

 

You seem to evade some of my questions. You speak of limitations of large session fue. Why exactly does the result correlate from the amount of grafts? If feller gets great results from say 1000 grafts, why do the results decline after that? What are the limitations?

 

Im not dumb enough to believe fue surgeons post up all their cases. I also dont believe ANY surgeon posts up all their cases full stop. Fue or fut. I was just wondering if feller just feels he gets more consistent results with strip while other may get more consistrnt results with fue? Its not an attack.

 

Oh so just because you have had 6 fue procedures and i havent you think that makes you thrr final word on the subject?

[Dr. Ricardo Mejia]

If I am transplanting a patient that is going to need 3000 grafts or more, then FUT is more efficient and more economical for the patient and can be done in less time. FUE is recommended in my practice for those that definitely want to avoid a strip surgery and would rather have the punch scars. Each individual physician has the skill to do the surgery correctly. It's a matter of properly consulting with each physician on the risks and benefits and costs.

[TommyLucchese]

I don't even see why people are concerned with FUT

 

I'm just under 5 months out and my scar is very hard to find and has given me no problems at all

[Cant decide]

I agree. I think too many people make too much of the scar. The scar has been such a non issue for me. As long as you are going to a good doc, the vast majority should be ok. The only way I would opt or FUE is if I knew or a fact that all I would ever need is 2000 lifetime grafts max..

 

I hate to see so many NW IV+ people on here who insist they would only do FUE because they dont want the linear scar. When one's hairloss is that advanced, you need to get the most gafts out of your donor and as many of those to survive once planted!!

[Mickey85]

Mickey85,

 

I dont see what i evaded, however i will assume you have not had any FUE at all then.

 

 

Meanwhile here is a reply from Dr Feller :

 

 

 

I see the old FUE vs. FUT debate is flaring up again. It seems to do this every 18 months or so. There are literally thousands of words written on this subject on this very forum alone so I won't bother to repeat them. The broad strokes of the controversy always come down to two topics:

 

1. The willingly ignored objective reality of FUE and

2. The competence (disguised by the word "confidence") of doctors who advise serious caution with respect to mega session FUE

 

With respect to #1: The growth rates of FUE are consistently lower than for strip. Put aside the voluminous evidence on this very forum alone, look to the procedure itself. It is BRUTALLY traumatic when compared to it's FUT counterpart. Absolutely no argument there on the part of ANY practitioner. As a result overall yields can and do suffer. I have yet to meet a practitioner who has denied this.

 

Another MAJOR problem with FUE is that it can "rape" the donor area. The amount of scarring and damage to the donor area is far greater than that for properly performed FUT (strip) surgery despite the fact that it is often more difficult to see. For each punch made by even the best of FUE tools, a scar that EXCEEDS the circumference of the resultant hole is GUARANTEED. This is the nature of healing to insure the strongest closure and re-intgrety of the skin. As a result, LARGE cases of FUE will cause touching or even overlapping of scar tissue. I call this "confluence of scar" and this WILL result in devascularization throughout the donor area, SHOCKLOSS, and obvious scarring in all but the most physiologically lucky patients.

 

Do you really want to limit what is already a limited supply of donor hair? Of course not. But in the panic of replacing hair as quickly as possible vulnerable patients will sign on the dotted line without thinking the matter through.

 

With respect to #2: The confidence (competence) of every practitioner should always be in question. I've done my best to demonstrate my skill on and offline and to be consistent thereof. Confidence comes from both a deep and basic understanding of the subject as well as practice and experience. Oh, and one more thing, at least as far as FUE is concerned...does the practitioner enjoy doing it? As for me it is easy to see where I stand from over 10 years of posting both my FUE cases/results and my candid observations on this site alone.

 

I leave it to the public to determine my level of confidence and therefore competence and that of any and all other doctors.

 

I would add one thing that many patients don't know about, and that's the law of the land. In New York, and no doubt many other states, a physician must FIRST offer the gold standard of a procedure BEFORE offering the alternative. I take this so seriously that when a patient opts solely for FUE and not FUT they must sign a document that clearly states that they have been informed that they are rejecting the gold standard for an alternative and that the results will likely not be as good and that scar formation may be worse.

 

Finally, one of the posters mentioned why a one thousand graft FUE case would be any different than a 3,000 graft FUE. The answer comes down to fatigue. I have found that even with a large staff, and I use 6 staff even for 1,000 graft FUEs, doctor and staff get tired beyond the first 800 or so grafts. The grabbing and pulling of grafts becomes harsher and rougher, thus causing more trauma to the grafts. Not in every case, but in enough to exercise caution. Also, 3000 graft FUE cases are very hard on the patient and the stress caused thereby may lend to a less successful procedure.

 

So the above is why I consider FUE an ALTERNATIVE to FUT and not a substitute and why I advise the same whenever a patient presents during consultation for FUE procedures.

 

Hopefully this helps answer a question or two and educates those who simply have no idea which procedure to choose or why.

 

Spex is a master of this subject who not only talks the talk, but walked the walk. But you don't have to take his word for it, ask other mentors like Jotronic who has also seen his share of mega session FUE results. Do your homework and build your own confience in which procedure and doctor you wish to choose. There is no shortage of information.

 

Dr. Alan Feller

Feller Medical, PC

 

 

Thanks to dr feller for replying personally. However there are a few things i don't agree with. I dont think all practitioners think fue is more 'brutal' than fut. In fact some have actually said the clear opposite. Why would they switch to fue when it is more brutal? It's common knowledge that it is less invasive. Dr umar has even said that fue is less damaging and results in a healthier scalp. I do find it hard to believe that drs like lorenzo, umar and de reys will say fue is more brutally traumatic. De reys has actually said fut has more risk of blood loss and more risks like stretching, numbness, headaches etc.

 

I can understand the fue scars overlapping, but how is that even close to the deep and linear incision and resultant scarring of fut?? You keep reiterating the scarring issue of fue but even with 3,000 grafts, it will be less visible than an fut scar.

 

I can understand the fatique factor. Thanks for being honest on that part. I do think it can vary from person to person and there is no 'set' number of grafts that is safe to extract for all doctors. Do all 3000 fue sessions work? No. Do all fut sessions work? No. Do all fut scars end up 1mm? No. No doctor can guarantee a thin scar.. just my thoughts anyway.

[Mickey85]

Another FUE vs FUT debate! I think everyone accepts that you get more Donor from an FUT and the survival rate is generally higher. Whether or not 3000 FUE will be invisible depends heavily upon hair thickness and density so you many want to get your density checked.

 

With all due respect champ, the thread is titled fut or fue. I dont see how it could not have turned into a debate really.

[chrisdav]

Ben,

 

It is always nice to hear your input as you are an experienced poster, and you have had the surgery yourself.

 

Being a patient who has had a larger FUE session, your input is valid and very much respected by many including myself as you were very honourable when you were updating your blog.It was done frequently and honestly.

 

I have personally noticed from being present on the forums that there are far often posters whom appear to be 'die hard FUE posters', whom are quite fanatical in their beliefs towards FUE.

 

I get sick to death of reading them.

 

They tend to think they know it all. They do not look at the coin on both sides, and are often the ones whom have never actually even had the surgery, but yet simply want and need to believe it is the sole answer.

 

The attempted justification is by using negative, outdated strip techniques, and not the 'Gold Standard' strip as the appropriate comparison.

 

I would simply say that before posters of such saturate and send out misinformation to any forum readers on any forum, is to actually put their money where their mouth is, and actually get the surgery they feel so strongly about... instead of just talking about it.

 

Then we can see if their results are all the hope they will be.

Edited December 9, 2012 by chrisdav

[Mickey85]

Ben,

 

It is always nice to hear your input as you are an experienced poster, and you have had the surgery yourself.

 

Being a patient who has had a larger FUE session, your input is valid and very much respected by many including myself as you were very honourable when you were updating your blog.It was done frequently and honestly.

 

I have personally noticed from being present on the forums that there are far often posters whom appear to be 'die hard FUE posters', whom are quite fanatical in their beliefs towards FUE.

 

I get sick to death of reading them.

 

They tend to think they know it all. They do not look at the coin on both sides, and are often the ones whom have never actually even had the surgery, but yet simply want and need to believe it is the sole answer.

 

The attempted justification is by using negative, outdated strip techniques, and not the 'Gold Standard' strip as the appropriate comparison.

 

I would simply say that before posters of such saturate and send out misinformation to any forum readers on any forum, is to actually put their money where their mouth is, and actually get the surgery they feel so strongly about... instead of just talking about it.

 

Then we can see if their results are all the hope they will be.

 

Dear chrisdav. Has it ever occured to you that maybe we arent fanatical about about fue because some(like myself) have not had fue. But we have been burnt by the negatives of fut. Thats why i feel so strongly about fue, because it doesnt come with as many drawbacks. Does it have drawbacks? Yes, but not nearly enough as fut. Show me a cases where a patients life has been drastically altered from fue scarring? Now compare that to the amount of people who spend years and thousands of dollars fixing their stretched fut scars with no success.

 

I would rather 10% less yield and have little fue scars that wont stretch than 100 percent yield with fut scar. Thats just me. I do believe the bad megasession fue cases have been exagerated in quantity. Hell we see bad fut cases all the time, how come that is not a stigma? We see stretched scars alot, how come that is not stigmatized? It is as unpredictable as yield and based on the patients physiology too. These thread is about fut or fue, you came in thinking there was not going to be debate? Sick of hearing about fue? Dont read it.

[hairshopeing]

I think to be fair that works both ways chrisdav,there are some fantastic fue results posted and some average/below average and same for fut! However when ever a poor fue result is shown its very often attributed to that method by fut fans,but if a poor fut is shown its mainly attributed to shockloss or mpb continuing as reasons as to why the result isn't so good! Never fut has not been successful! There are some results of 3000-4000 fit results will very little improvemenr,so this method also has no guarantees! I do think however fut does produce better results mire consistently than fue due to the extraction method,but that's the gamble! If fut was 100% guaranted yield then maybe more people would accept the scar at the back,but with fue you've still got a very good chance if not quite as good as fut of having excellent results! But if your unlucky and they don't meet your expectations at least if you decide to accept your situation you canshave down and move on! Yes fue gives lots of small scaring when shaved very short but nothing Joe public would notice however everyone would notice a long linear scar no matter how good the work was and I think thats why fue only is for some! I'm having fue with Dr feriduni,and could have had fut for a lot less money but believe his fue results are close if not on par with his fut! Hopefully mine will be a success but if for whatever reason it wasnt is be less frantic as shaving down would still be possible if all rose failed! Your result by the way is amazing! And I'm sure you have no regrets having fut! But as iv read on so many blogs here some people with less favourable results do regret it because of the linear scar and not being able to then buzz down! Guess its a gamble,and different people take a different sort if gamble! No ones right and no ones wrong as neither guarantee results!

[hairshopeing]

Sorry about my Piss poor spelling I'm typing on my phone and my fat thumb plus tiny letters equals very bad gramer!

[Mickey85]

I think to be fair that works both ways chrisdav,there are some fantastic fue results posted and some average/below average and same for fut! However when ever a poor fue result is shown its very often attributed to that method by fut fans,but if a poor fut is shown its mainly attributed to shockloss or mpb continuing as reasons as to why the result isn't so good! Never fut has not been successful! There are some results of 3000-4000 fit results will very little improvemenr,so this method also has no guarantees! I do think however fut does produce better results mire consistently than fue due to the extraction method,but that's the gamble! If fut was 100% guaranted yield then maybe more people would accept the scar at the back,but with fue you've still got a very good chance if not quite as good as fut of having excellent results! But if your unlucky and they don't meet your expectations at least if you decide to accept your situation you canshave down and move on! Yes fue gives lots of small scaring when shaved very short but nothing Joe public would notice however everyone would notice a long linear scar no matter how good the work was and I think thats why fue only is for some! I'm having fue with Dr feriduni,and could have had fut for a lot less money but believe his fue results are close if not on par with his fut! Hopefully mine will be a success but if for whatever reason it wasnt is be less frantic as shaving down would still be possible if all rose failed! Your result by the way is amazing! And I'm sure you have no regrets having fut! But as iv read on so many blogs here some people with less favourable results do regret it because of the linear scar and not being able to then buzz down! Guess its a gamble,and different people take a different sort if gamble! No ones right and no ones wrong as neither guarantee results!

 

Thank you!!

 

Funny that chrisdav complains about people who think fue is flawless when he is on the opposite spectrum for fut.

[HARIRI]

Well in my opinion...

 

FUT is better when you need a high yield after the surgery and good preservation of donor area if you got extensive balding to a high norwood level.

 

FUE is better when you want to avoid the pain, be able to quit the battle anytime and shave your head and when you are not that greedy in getting a full head of hair because FUE has limitations. However you really need to choose an experience FUE surgeon with loads of results posted with at least 5 years experience.

 

So nothing is better in my opinion. It depends upon the patient. In my case I wouldn't gone for a strip if I knew about FUE because I'm not willing to take Propecia to kill my libido and I'm not willing to spend all of my savings on transplants. I just needed a decent hairline to frame my face but its too late because i was CUT.

[Yiddo]

There is an italian forum called bellicappelli that has loads of fue results from doctors all over europe. The majority of the results are 3000 fue plus, and they are on high nw's aswell. The results are fantastic.

[Mickey85]

There is an italian forum called bellicappelli that has loads of fue results from doctors all over europe. The majority of the results are 3000 fue plus, and they are on high nw's aswell. The results are fantastic.

 

Indeed yiddo. Spanish forums too with large fue cases. Danish forums, turkish forums etc. Some people think fue only exists in north america...

[GNX1]

It is BRUTALLY traumatic when compared to it's FUT counterpart.

whats BRUTALLY traumatic is having a huge scar on the back of ur head like some Indian scalping you.:cool:

 

yea I know some ppl heal with less scarring then others but some guys want to cut their head very short and that scar is a tell-tale sign of a transplant.

[MAGNUMpi]

So maybe 2 fue procedures would be best of all.

#1 to get 80% of what a FUT surgery would yield

#2 to get the last 20%

It would cost more and take more time, but you would avoid a lifelong linear scar with the possibility of stretching.

[MAGNUMpi]

Rats!

I keep hoping I'll find out that FUE is the ultimate answer.

It is hard to disregard the words of Spex. The guy has seen more than probably any of us.

I sit somewhere on the line..need about 2500-3000 hairs. Dont want the scar and have noticed that my scalp is pretty tight naturally so I have to consider possible stretching. but a FUE mega-session sounds risky too.

The research continues!

Thanks Spex, thanks guys.

Good thread.

M.

[gobble]

Is it common for clinics to supplement a FUT session with some FUE to harvest additional grafts? If they do, would they take the FUE from areas where a future FUT harvest may be taken?

[Yiddo]

Guys,

 

I wish you all the very best with your FUE mega sessions. :cool:

 

If you all think that if all else fails you can simply "GET OUT" and shave it all off and be done with, think again.:rolleyes: This mentality has always puzzled me as if this is your mind set - let me save you a fortune and much heartache - just shave it all off now and dont go through the HT process! But hey ho you do what you feel is right for you.

 

FUE causes scaring and a lot of it - and i can assure you that not only will the transplanted hair look different and potentially unnatural all shaved off - there will be evidence of scaring in the donor region ESPECIALLY with mega session FUE if you shave it all off. But you will find this out for yourselves.

 

Ben i commend you a mega session FUE patient who has hung around and been completely honest throughout the process. If only more did :rolleyes:

 

 

Best

Spex

 

 

 

 

Spex, when you refer to '' shave it all off '' do you mean grade ''0'' ???

[MAGNUMpi]

...And isn't it true that a FUT scar can stretch at any time even years later?

also I see them pretty high on the head a lot of times meaning that when these guys get into their 60's-70's those scars might become visible around the sides. no?