The way results are displayed

[hairshopeing]

After looking through hundreds of results posted pre and post op,I'm wondering if anyone else has a similar concern as myself!!! A lot of the prep photos are hair combed in a way in which would

A not be a natural hair style and

B makes the patient look much balder then he actually is!!

However the post of photos show it with the hair neatly styled and combed over a lot of the problem areas exposed on the pre op photos!!!

Obviously doctors will do this to maximise the wow factor of the results,but I think a fair comparison if your going to show the best it can look after a ht is to show a photo pre op with the same style,not a combed back halfway up his head style that exposes the thin areas then a12 months later a photo with them areas covered by what was native hair anyway!!! Just so the comparison is a fair one!! I could style my hair in a way which would make me look 10 times balder than when iv styled it properly,so if I showed them 2 different photos it would look like quite a transformation,and In reality I'd have no more hair then before!!!! Any thoughts?? Or is just me!!!

[Buzz2]

Hi

 

I understand what you are saying but I really do not think any one the reputable clinics would do this. However, nothing is stopping a patient dong this when they post their own pics, but then why would they do that? They will only be fooling themselves.

 

I didnt really have that option as all of my pics were at a grade 3.5 length !!

[hairshopeing]

Hi buzz2 thanks for the reply,obviously patients can do that,and that's their own choice which is fine,but I'm talking about some,not all,reputable clinics who show some very good results but sometimes the comparison is not apples for apples as you would say!! It seems fairly common that the pre op shows hair combed at weird or unfavourable angles,with patients with fairly good pre op hair parted or pulled back(not at the hairline) exposing the problem areas! 12 months later the post op shows the hair combed or styled over them areas showing a good change,but a true reflection would be a pre op photo with the hair styled well,basically looking as good as possible against the same situation post op for a true comparison,or show both pre and post withe hair parted or pulled back exposing the same areas as pre op!!! I think it would give a true reflection as what can be achieved or what is a average result of a hair transplant!!! It's mainly on patients who have decent hair to start with that styled in a certain way wouldn't really show how bad there true situation originally was!!! Don't get me wrong a lot of doctors do true comparison photos and have some amazing results,I just think that should be the same for every surgeon who posts!!! So everyone is on the same platform for results!!!

[hairshopeing]

Yours is looking good by the way buzz2!!!! Great change!!! Looks good shaved down!!!!

[HARIRI]

Hairshopeing, Great thread. I agree with everything you said. There are top clinics following this way of taking post OP photos. Dont want to mention any names and then get attacked lol. I think many members know what I'm talking about. Sometimes they play with the flash and if not then with the photo angle. I think Jotronic has a great tutorial video about this topic. That explains why studio photos look better than individual photos even if taken by a professional camera. That's because a clinic wants to show the success of the surgery to market itself while the patient wants to show nothing but the reality. I have seen many patients with wow post clinical pics while when they take their own photos, you will see a big difference. I strongly insist for a patient to comb his hair backward for the post OP if he had a hairline job or to comb his hair forward if he had a crown job. Great thread Buddy :-)

[Agens]

I am aware what you say but I actually do not think any 1 the reputable clinics would try this. However, nothing is stopping a person dong this after they post their individual pics, but then the reason would they accomplish that? They will just be fooling independently.

[Blake Bloxham]

I feel like truly reputable clinics actually go out of their way to make the pre-op and post-op conditions as similar as possible. Frankly, they produce excellent results and don't want anyone to assume they are using "parlor tricks" to doctor results.

 

However, I can't deny that a hypothetical, less ethical clinic could definitely use differing conditions to make post-operative results appear "better."

 

This is another reason why so many patients love HD post operative videos.

[hairshopeing]

Thanks for the reply hariri and agens! Obviously patients can agens,but I think if you check the results posted by physician's you will see examples of exactly the scenario I have described! I don't want to specify certain physician's as that would be unfair,its down to us to research,not name call sort of speak,but check them out,it won't take you long to come across what I'm taking about! I'm not slagging them off,just there results aren't showing the reality of the change,which all of us would want to see! And they are reputable clinics,not posted by patients!

[Mickey85]

I totally agree Hariri. I don't want to mention clinics, but some cases of extensive loss(NW5 +) often have their hair styled in a manner when the hairline is not entirely exposed. Long hair combed downward also gives an illusion of more density than is actually existent.

[Davis91]

I could not agree more with this post--in fact in many of my previous posts I ask some of the "top" clinics on this site to display more apples-apples photos. I am really stunned that more people do not call them out on it. I hope the moderators of this community also try to maintain a decent standard.

[hairshopeing]

I agree Davis51,u need to be able to see true differences between before and after! Same hair positions,angles,and flash or no flash! That's how u can gauge the actual growth and difference in density! Some clinics do exactly that which is commendable,but some don't expose the weak areas on the post ops but do on the pre! I'm glad this is not just my observation,and others think a true reflection of change requires like for like hair positions and conditions!

[MAGNUMpi]

I have noticed the same. That little tuft of hair coming forward just over the side of hairline in a "modern" cut. I always wondered how some clinics got away with those post op shots. I like the photos by patients. Much more honest. Just looking through the "photo album" on this site you get some real honest shots taken by patients.

[Sean]

I agree. Patients who comb their hair back in various light or conditions (Wet or dry hair etc, way hair is combed/styled) can show the best results. Some clinic posted results even had product in their hair that can enhance a result and some intelligent folks called them out on it. It happens rarely though and I think 100% result transparency is essential. Lighting, camera, everything matters. You should be able to walk in all kinds of lights with a satisfactory result that remains undetectable and does not give signs of thinning (but obviously depending on your density given). Even hair color can enhance a result. So many things can be factored into the equation. It would be nice if a photo and video taking standard is set by all clinics to showcase the result in the best possible manner. Maybe taking like 20 photos of a patient or something preop and updates in the same format same background and so forth. Just like how we have the universal safe zone as the standard, picture taking should have its own standards. This is an outstanding thread.

[Blake Bloxham]

I hope the moderators of this community also try to maintain a decent standard.

 

We do all that we can to make sure clinics post compelling, realistic, consistent pre-operative and post-operative images:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/156077-please-read-how-take-present-compelling-realistic-photos.html

 

However, we're always looking for ways to improve and better assist patients, so advice is appreciated!

 

Also, something I wrote on the subject a while back:

 

Using a "Comb Over" To Make Hair Transplant Results Thicker? | Hair Loss Q & A

[Sean]

We do all that we can to make sure clinics post compelling, realistic, consistent pre-operative and post-operative images:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/156077-please-read-how-take-present-compelling-realistic-photos.html

 

However, we're always looking for ways to improve and better assist patients, so advice is appreciated!

 

Also, something I wrote on the subject a while back:

 

Using a "Comb Over" To Make Hair Transplant Results Thicker? | Hair Loss Q & A

 

Wow, didnt even come across those threads earlier. Pretty good knowledge so thanks for that. I do think some good photo tips should be revised as well as video tips. Hopefully, clinics then use those tips as forum required standards to take photos. Bright lighting, lower quality pics, photo contrast, etc can really confuse a lot of folks on the forums and especially those that are new to hair restoration. Even having filler in some pics or gels or so forth can confuse a sufferer researching transplantation. The more the photos, the better the analysis.

 

Based on such differences in photo characteristics by various clinics on the forums, I am starting to feel that it is 100% necessary for folks to see the photos and videos online now as well as see a person that had a restoration to get a feel of how it will be (preferrably the same norwood level or one not too extensive from their own). They can ask a person to comb their hair left or right or back and see how it moves, the angulation, and other very very important details that may not be visible in photos. This should be done before making any decision towards hair restoration. Whether it be strip or fue or smp or anything. This is probably the best approach for those that are new to everything.

 

I have already met two people whom I don't know in person that have seen it firsthand. I expect they pass on the torch or help others when they get their own procedures done. I promised like 3 other folks including Zenmunk(forum member) in the future to meet but those are the only other folks I will help out for now. I am not being compensated by anyone and doing this on my own time to truly help folks new to hair restoration meet genuine ht patients like myself. You can also tell by my own detail oriented thread how much effort I put into showcasing and I learned a few things in between. It has become a learning process. But I guess some folks have to look around to find and see if someone genuine is willing to meet. That is probably the most invaluable ht result source overall (since results showcased by clinics themselves vary so much). Seeing a person is the best way to help and advise others so they can make the right decisions to save themselves from this debilitating condition. If hairloss wasn't such a serious condition, people wouldn't waste their times on the forums and etc. Regardless of what anyone says, I think all of us have a BDD about our hair and it is time to accept it as that and maybe more and more insurance companies can recognize it as such and pay for it. Some people come on forums claiming it doesnt affect them much but still come to research how to fix it which doesn't make sense. Some people say they are happy only to do more tweaks later on. Some people say some surgeries may leave them greedy for more but have had numerous surgeries as well. In the end, proper showcased results are essential and if they are not available, it is wise to meet genuine patients with similar characteristics and norwood levels.

[MAGNUMpi]

it is wise to meet genuine patients with similar characteristics and norwood levels

I very much want to meet some real HT peeps. Anyone passing through Berlin in the near future?

I'm buying the drinks.

M.

[hairshopeing]

Thanks for your input Sean!! I agree,there should be a standard set,and met to be able to show comparison photos or videos!!! And you can't beat meeting someone in person and seeing their results first hand!!! I think when we all research results we should question why the pre and post op results have been shown in different formats or different hair exposure scenarios!!! There is obviously a reason for it,and we should commend the clinics that follow the same format pre and post op!! Therefor giving us all a true comparison of what has been achieved!! I recently met a member from here who had had a procedure done several years ago and was good enough to take time out to meet me,even though hairless was no longer a problem for him,and I can tell you his hair was outstanding! Not just no longer looking like he was loosing it but the type of hair you would see on someone and think,I wish I had hair like that!!! No video or photo comparison can give u that type of insight into what can be achieved,but the closer we can get to that,the better!!

[hairshopeing]

Magnumpi,thanks for your input,glad you see it the same way!!! Meeting someone defiantly gave me a better prospective on what is possible,which is very,very good results!!! Probably best starting a thread asking if anyone from Berlin is a member on here who is post op,defiantly worth a meet up m8!

[beardywierdy]

Hi Hairshoping

 

Twas me you met!!! Hope you are OK mate!! Watch this space - temple angle tweak coming soon!!!

 

Beardy!!

[hairshopeing]

Haha, how's tricks beardy!!! Thanks again for the meet up mate,big help!!! And good to see such a stellar result!!!! I'll let u know how I get on,got a consultation now with dr feriduni in December in London,so if u decide to on a temple tweak,try and schedule it for january,then you can show me the bright lights of hasslet!!! ( spelt wrongly no doubt) didn't mention your name on here as hadn't asked you if that would be ok,so glad you did!! Just gotta work out how to email a picture now!! No easy task for someone who's a technophobe like my goodself!!! Hope alls good with you mate and I'll keep u posted,and let me know if you do decide on a little tweak!!! And thanks again!!!!!

[beardywierdy]

@magnumpi,

Hi mate, I was in Berlin in 1992, mate, pre HT though!!! Went over to Cottbus ..am arbeiten.

Spent a few great years in Germany. Hope das Bier is still cold!!

Bet there are some who would meet you, what about the German forums, or Hattingen HT patients, they have some nice results

[almostdone99]

If not apples-apples, then the difference should be explained fully: the change in lighting, hair length, hair style, time of day,season, etc........ Sometimes it isn't possible to re-create the exact conditions of the original pictures; this should be transparent for the potential client to make an informed decision.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

So, let me add my 2 cents.

 

1. The photographer should try to be consistent. Although I'm the first to admit that I'm not a great photographer...I am consistent. Our before's and after's are taken in front of the same blue background and under the same lights, and when I use flash and it makes a difference, I almost always point it out in the discussion. This was a bit easier before the forum changed a few years ago, when every picture had a caption.

 

Consistency is even more important in face pics... and again, not being a great photographer, its critical to be consistent, lining jaw lines and ears up, as its perfectly easy to make a patient have a better or worse facelift result just by altering the posture of the cervical spine. Meaning look up and the results are better, look down and you can make a preop worse.

 

2. Its tough to get that apples to apples comparison we all want. People grow at different rates, and change their hairstyles, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. Just like facelift patients almost always come back for postop pics with makeup...these are the very same people who complained that the afters they saw looked made-up.

 

3. Sometimes people have an agenda. There are plenty of ways doctors can make a bad result better...but you guys can usually pick this up from your experience in looking at gobs of pictures. Similarly, sometimes patients want to make it look worse than it actually is. I've encountered this as most doctors have. From a biased point of view, I think that this is less jumped on by forum members than when a doctor "alters" pics, but nevertheless, most of you guys can pick this up too.

 

Bottom line. Most of you forum regulars can tell which clinics make an honest attempt to present consistent pictures, and most of you regulars can pick up bullxxxx when you see it.

 

And you often point it out, increasing the knowledge base of the entire network.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[hairshopeing]

Hi Dr lindsey,thanks for commenting on this thread as I'm glad someone in the hair restoration industry understands potential patients concerns! I think angles of peoples heads,lighting,and flash can give varying results,and although that can't be perfectly replicated it is always appreciated if every effort is made to do so. What I think is a real problem is when the hair is styled in not the way the patient or anyone else would style it pre op,or when the pre op photos have hair pulled right back,not at the hair line but just behind it or at the half way back there for exposing thin or bald areas that would already be covered if the hair was combed over them,but on the post op the hair is shown with the hair styled over them areas and basically looking its best! Don't get me wrong I think that must be shown as an example of how it can now look,but I also think there should be a replica photo of the pre op photo so we can clearly see what hair and density is now present the previously bald/thinning area,and a pre op photo showing what the patient could achieve prior to his surgery.this would guve a nest vs best and worst vs worst comparison which I think would be a great platform to assess what has actually been achieved! Some physician's already do this,but I think its fair to say some don't,which is a shame! Hopefully more will start to do apples for apples comparisons,can I also say I think it great that you took time out to comment as it shows physician's do care about what people look for and try there best to replicate as close as possible the most accurate comparison!

[hairshopeing]

Best vs best,excuse my spelling!