Almost 9 months..... 2500 with Dr. Dorin

[joeyz400]

I haven't posted in a couple of months hoping there would be some more improvement. I haven't seen any improvement since the 6 month mark and I think some areas seem thinner. My avatar is the day before my surgery. I know I had a low # of graphs but I had higher exceptions that seemed realistic. I can't capture it in a picture but you can see the scar with a #4 clip. I have my hair on top longer in these photos than any other month. It will be 9 months since my surgery in a week. You can look in my albums to see monthly progress minus months 7 & 8.

Edited August 27, 2011 by joeyz400

[orlhair1]

It looks like from your photos, you were addressing all the way from the crown to the hairline. 2,542 grafts seems quite low to address that large of an area if you were expecting a denser look. That coupled with the fact that you have a very high amount of single hair grafts is probably the reason it is not as dense as you might like. Not sure what your donor situation is like, but you may want to have a second pass if that is feasible to achieve closer to the result you are looking for.

[Levrais]

I agree with orlhair. However there is a big improvement from your prep pics especially from the side view. Is your hair wet in these pics?

[orlhair1]

Yes....definite improvement.

[joeyz400]

I have a little gel which actually makes it look a little better. The graphs were placed favoring the hairline then tapering off as it makes its way to the crown. There is an improvement for sure but I don't think there will be any more improvement (I haven't see any in 2-3 months) and it fell short of my expectations. When I look at the pictures post-op there seems to be more graphs (scabs) than hairs I see growing now..... I think my 6 month photos look better than my 9 month. I use a little gell and take the pictures in the same place and lighting in all my photo albulms.

Edited August 27, 2011 by joeyz400

[HARIRI]

Results are poor. 2500 grafts should have been ised in a better way. Honestly speaking, that doesnt inspire for 9 months period :-(

[hairthere]

joey, I would say for that number of grafts the results are about right, especially for 9 months. With your high level of hairloss, 2500 grafts will essentially re-establish your hairline and provide some light coverage behind it.

 

The way you are styling the hair does not help, nor does the gel. This is something I find myself suggesting more and more: try growing your hair out a bit and getting a spikey, layered cut. It will add an illusion of density. Also, try some paste instead of gel. SAMY makes a thickening paste that is quite good.

 

I think taking these measures will improve the look, as will a few more months of maturity. However, I do think ultimately you will need another session. The good news is you have a solid base to work with now.

Edited August 27, 2011 by hairthere

[corvettester]

Hey Joey,

 

When I compare your pre-op pics to your recent pics I see a definite improvement. You were a NW5/6 before and now you have established a hairline and more coverage. I think it looks about right for the amount of grafts over coverage. You appear to have gotten good yield. Here is the link to your pre-op pics:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/158735-day-after-my-first-hair-transplant-dr-dorin.html

 

I remember initially asking you about the low number of grafts used and you replied that your donor supply is limited and that Dr. Dorin wasn't able to safely get any more than 2,500 grafts. At that time, we were hoping that you would get by with the illusion of density because T&D are so good at doing a lot with very little. That being said, I think you're going to have to wait for a few more months to see how maturity improves your situation. I doubt that there will be much new growth, but maturity should help.

 

To give you a little perspective, I was a NW3 and I got 1,700 grafts in my hairline and temples only. I subsequently had to go back for another 1,300 so that I can achieve the density that I desire. That's 3,000 grafts for just my hairline and temples. You're attempting to cover your hairline, temples, frontal third, midsection and crown with only 2,500 grafts.

 

I'm sorry to hear that it isn't what you hoped it to be, but what really were your expectations? How much denser did you think it'd be? For anyone with your amount of hair loss, I'd say that you need at least 5,000 grafts to start to get a desirable result. You're definitely going to have to go back for a second pass if your donor supply can support it. I assumed that that was understood after your first procedure.

 

Lastly, it'd be great if you could post some pics with your hair freshly cleaned and dry without product or concealers. I think that would give us a better idea of your true yield. The gelled and or wet look that you're sporting in your recent pics isn't doing you any favors in terms of concealing your hair loss.

 

 

Corvettester

Edited August 28, 2011 by corvettester

[TakingThePlunge]

Joey,

 

I know how disappointing it can be when you've got certain expectations and those expectations are not met. However, I have to agree with the posters who stated that 2500 grafts over such a large area would not have been enough to give you full coverage. If you look at my hair restoration website, you will see that my first procedure was also 2500 grafts and I only addressed the front third to reestablish my hairline. I had quite a bit more coverage in my crown and it wasn't touched.

 

One year after my first hair transplant I had to follow up with a second procedure to add density but I had lower than expected yield. In total, I've now had 4349 grafts to rebuild my front third and finally have an acceptable result.

 

I can tell you however, that with both of my procedures I continued to see significant improvement well beyond the one year mark. Thus, I do recommend that you wait the year or a little beyond before assessing your results.

 

Then, if you feel that you have subpar results, contact Dr. Dorin for an evaluation. He has a truly unblemished record when it comes to patient care and I'm sure he will do everything in his power to ensure that you get the results you deserve.

 

Best of luck!

[joeyz400]

I didn't think there would be a drastic change with a lot of density just a bit better than what I got. I knew going into this that I would probably need a 2nd procedure to get a really good result. I know the amount of graphs I got was low and I am by no means saying this was a failure or that Dr. Dorin didn't do a good job. He is an excellent Dr. and artist. I am wondering how my yield really was.... Unfortunately my donor area and my pockets are low and I don't see a 2nd procedure in my near future. I was hoping to get by a bit better with just one.

[joeyz400]

Thanks guys for the input. I do have to go for my follow up and see what Dr. Dorin thinks about the result. I just haven't yet because of my work schedule.

[corvettester]

Results are poor. 2500 grafts should have been ised in a better way. Honestly speaking, that doesnt inspire for 9 months period :-(

 

Hariri,

 

How do you think the 2,500 grafts should have been used? What would your strategy have been?

 

If I understand correctly, Dorin spread the grafts pretty evenly throughout, except in the hairline where he put a little more. This makes sense to me as I'd rather have thin coverage throughout, than a dense hairline and temples with a completely bald frontal third, midsection and crown.

 

Do you expect more coverage from 2,500 grafts for a NW5/6?

 

He didn't have much to work with, so I think it's important that we remain realistic here... however, on the bright side, Joey seemed to respond well to the procedure. He had a good yield so I think that with another procedure he can address his density issue.

 

Nobody is going to claim that 2,500 grafts will be enough for a NW5/6 even in the most ideal circumstances. They say that one needs a thousand grafts per NW Level for a conservative result. So I do think he got his money's worth. He has something to work with now. Who knows, maybe he'll only need another 2,500 grafts to get where he wants to be...

 

 

 

Corvettetser

Edited August 28, 2011 by corvettester

[orlhair1]

I think this case is really about expectations. For 2500 grafts with a very high percentage of single hair grafts, there was as much coverage as could be expected. Concentrating the grafts in one area would have left a very large area with no coverage at all. I think if Joey has sufficient donor for a second pass and can get 2,000 to 3,000 more grafts, even with the high number of single hairs, he will achieve significant additional coverage. It is a big area to cover and with his hair characteristics, there are limitations. I am sure that when he visits Dr. Dorin they will come up with a good plan to help him achieve his goals.

[corvettester]

I didn't think there would be a drastic change with a lot of density just a bit better than what I got. I knew going into this that I would probably need a 2nd procedure to get a really good result. ...I am wondering how my yield really was.... I was hoping to get by a bit better with just one.

 

Hey Joey,

 

I can't say what your yield was without seeing your hair minus gel or product, but it really does look like you've had substantial growth from what you've posted so far. I can imagine what it looks like dry though and it's very promising to me...

 

I'm not trying to exaggerate or paint a rosy picture here, but for what it is, it looks good. I think Dorin did a good job with your case.

 

You now have uniformity throughout your scalp or general coverage. Before, you had an island forelock that was pretty thin in itself. You also had a few really thin patches of hair here and there. Now you have general coverage so at the very least, it looks a lot better than before. Just remember where you started from...

 

What's more, you may have the option of using concealers now, whereas before your HT, they were completely out of the question. Men get really clever with concealers, so don't rule them out.

 

To me, there was never a questions as to whether or not you'd need a second procedure, it was always a forgone conclusion. If money is an issue, I would suggest using Care Credit. They have 0% financing for the first year. So if you put it on credit, the time you would have spent saving, could be spent growing from your next procedure.

 

So long as you have enough donor, I'd say that you're in a good position. Another 2,500 will put you at a conservative final result and Dorin is just the doc to give you good coverage from a low number of grafts... yes, 5,000 grafts in your case is still low!

 

 

Corvettester

[joeyz400]

Corvettester, I agree with you. I was just thinking it was going to cover a little more. I've seen many photos of cases with my type of loss and # of graphs and seen some results I would be happy with so that disappoints me. If any other work is done, it, without a doubt will be Dr. Dorin.

[lorenzo]

I feel that for 2500 grafts its very little in a large area like that. When you show after pictures that are wet its hard to give an honest evaluation. Having said that you definately see an improvement. Doctor can only work with what they have so if you had a tight donor the doctor can only do so much with the numbers he gets.

I feel if you show your hair dry in the after pictures your result will be right on par with the number of grafts you recieved.

 

To me, there was never a questions as to whether or not you'd need a second procedure, it was always a forgone conclusion. If money is an issue, I would suggest using Care Credit. They have 0% financing for the first year. So if you put it on credit, the time you would have spent saving, could be spent growing from your next procedure.

 

 

 

Are you selling procedures now;)? I have a funny feeling we will be getting news soon that you have become a sale rep.

 

As for Hariri comments I feel they are unjust because of the after pictures showing wet hair. I must admit it was nice getting he to say something other than Rahal is number 1, he is the best, he was my first choice 100%.

Edited August 28, 2011 by lorenzo

[aaron1234]

Yeah, that's about right for 2,500 grafts over that large an area. And of course, wet hair doesn't help. Keep it dry and add some dermmatch. But you really probably needed around 4K or 5K grafts to make a real substantial difference. Even then, it would still be a bit thin. If your donor was very tight then there is only so much a doc can do. Definitely do back to Dr. Dorin and see what he says. You might want to check around with multiple docs to see how many grafts they say they could safely remove from your donor area. You need a mega mega-session!

[corvettester]

Are you selling procedures now;)? I have a funny feeling we will be getting news soon that you have become a sale rep.

 

LMFAO!

 

It worked well for me. I used Care Credit for my first and second procedure and never paid them any interest or additional fees because I paid it off well in advance of the one year 0% financing interest deadline.

 

However, I do recall coming across a thread or two where patients were complaining about their experience with Care Credit, but I don't remember the details. So keep that in mind...

 

As for Hariri comments I feel they are unjust because of the after pictures showing wet hair. I must admit it was nice getting he to say something other than Rahal is number 1, he is the best, he was my first choice 100%.

 

 

I bet you wouldn't be saying that if he replaced "Rahal" with "H&W."

 

With all due respect Lorenzo, of all people, you have no room to talk...

 

 

Corvettester

Edited August 28, 2011 by corvettester
Lorenzo and his big mouth...

[joeyz400]

Here is a new post with a similar situation. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/162426-dr-humayun-mohmand-patient-type-va-2629-grafts-one-session.html

I think he had much better results. This result is on par with my expectations.

[joeyz400]

Corvettester how is the weather in the city? So far so good here in Staten Island, not as bad as expected. Irene is being a bitch.

[bonkerstonker]

Joey gutted for you pal but it's life unfortunately you get what you pay for and with respect 2500 was never really gonna do anything it was so easy for them grafts to get lost in such a huge area without making a impact.

 

I'd imagine Dr Dorin will have told you preop that there would be hardly any change and definitely not worth getting a scar for.

[orlhair1]

I feel bad for your situation as well......just no way that 2500 grafts would produce any degree of density over that much area, even if you had less 1 hair follicles and more 2s & 3s. You did get some improvement, but very thin coverage is the best you could expect with that amount of grafts in your situation. I would definitely talk to Dr. Dorin some more (and it might be worth your time to at least consult with some others as well). It does look like from your pictures you may have a lot more donor depending on laxity, etc. If you could put another 3000+ grafts in, you would see a big difference, but you do need to keep expectations in check even with a second HT. I would think you would have significant improvement over where you are now, but just how dense of a look you can achieve vs. what you might expect needs to be aligned so that you will be happy with the outcome.

[lorenzo]

Corvester my goal on this forum is to give my opinion. Whether I person gets his hair transplant if irrelavent. Rarely unless mentioned or part of the converstation do I tell anyone to go to H&W. i dont try to play policement, cheerleader or moderator I give my opinion.

In the situation of Joey its a good post for people to understand what to expect with certain amount of grafts.

 

Joey gutted for you pal but it's life unfortunately you get what you pay for and with respect 2500 was never really gonna do anything it was so easy for them grafts to get lost in such a huge area without making a impact.

 

I'd imagine Dr Dorin will have told you preop that there would be hardly any change and definitely not worth getting a scar for.

__________________

 

 

I agree for a certain extent if this is his one and only transplant. I am sure that Dr. Dorin explained to him what the results would be. I also assume he also asked him whether he prefered to have the grafts placed.

I have experiened a simular situation where a patient was very tight. The doctor asked the patient to do more exercices and come back in a year. The patient came all the way from Italy and wanted to have the surgeries at all cost. It was mentioned to him that the first surgery wouldnt do alot because they felt they numbers would be low. Once a game plan was discussed he ended up with just under 6000 grafts in two surgeries so far he is looking good.

I am sure Dr, Dorin mentioned this to Joey that he would need another surgery. Another important point mentioned is that there are some great doctor in the New York area and it wouldnt hurt to have second opinion.

Just my thoughts...

[corvettester]

Here is a new post with a similar situation. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/162426-dr-humayun-mohmand-patient-type-va-2629-grafts-one-session.html

I think he had much better results. This result is on par with my expectations.

 

Joey,

 

The above referenced patient has a great result for only 2,600 grafts. However, there are some significant difference between you and him:

 

1. You have more hair loss. You are a NW5/6. He is a NW5. He also has more hair throughout his frontal and midsection than you do.

2. He has denser native hair and what appears to be better hair characteristics, i.e. thick hair shafts, whereas you have much finer hair.

3. His donor area appears to be much denser than yours.

4. He is wearing his hair much longer than yours. The longer the hair, the better it conceals hair loss.

5. He is using a comb-over. You hair is wet, gelled and combed straight forward.

6. His crown is much stronger than yours.

7. There are no overhead after shots of his head...

8. Poor photo quality. I don't think these photos reveal the true nature of his result very well.

 

Don't ever let one patient's result sell you, we're all too different. Besides, I doubt you'd want to sport your hair the way he does. You're going to need a second procedure, possibly a third. You need a minimum of 5,000 grafts to have good coverage. However, if you're like most of us, you'll get hair greed, so you'll end up wanting even more. Let's hope you have the donor to support it!

 

Irene was so weak. I was outside until 4:00am with friends enjoying the abandoned neighborhood, having a hoot in the rain. It's not often you see empty NYC streets... it was like a ghost town here.

 

 

Corvettester

Edited August 28, 2011 by corvettester
removed my suspicions

[Atomic]

Joey IMHO Good yield, Distribution of the grafts should have been concentrated on the frontal 1/3 with a second procedure to finish the top/crown.

 

So now you just go from where you are now with diffused thinning.

 

Good luck Joey.