Neograft Chicago?

[flashcab]

Hello all. I have recently just underwent a hair transplant in Chicago to add some volume towards the front of my head. It is still recovering but I still need to work on my frontal hairline. Do you thing that a neograft would achive a nice looking hairline? Also, my head still has bumps and is a little red, is that okay its been a little over a month? Who are good doctors in chicago that do great neograft HTs? Thanks guys!

[Blake Bloxham]

Flashcab,

 

Thank you for sharing your transplant story. I encourage you to add some photographs to your social profile or create a weblog to share your progress. The NeoGraft machine, as you may know, is simply a follicular unit extraction device, and this network does not currently recommend any physicians who utilize NeoGraft extraction. However, we do recommend several world-class hair transplant surgeons in Illinois.

[aaron1234]

You won't want a HT done by a machine.

[Bill - Seemiller]

FlashCab,

 

Welcome to our forum community. For starters, I'd encourage you to share more detail about your actual experience including photos and the name of your doctor. Claiming you've gotten a "NeoGraft" hair transplant is like saying you've gotten a "SAFE scribe" hair transplant. The type of hair transplant you received is FUE. The NeoGraft and SAFE scribe are just tools and in themselves, can't produce an excellent hair transplant. It's the physicians who use these tools that make or break the procedure.

 

The NeoGraft as a tool has been highly overhyped on this and other forums by the manufacturer. However, like any other tool, it has advantages and disadvantages and has not been proven more effective than other FUE tools ultilized regularly by quality hair restoration physicians.

 

Thus, I encourage you to share your pictures with us and chart your progress from beginning to end so that we may provide you with support, encouragement and input on your results as they grow.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill Seemiller

[Sparky]

Not big fans of Neograft on here, Dr Bauman uses it and hes messed up a few of our posters so its given Neograft a bad rep on here.

[Slaps]

Has anyone seen a result from this machine? i saw a youtube vid of it and it looked impressive, providing it does'nt ruin the grafts I dont see how it would be any less effective than regular FUE, the incisions are still made by a hand. Im led to believe the incisions are the key to a successful HT.

[Doug Monty]

Flashcab,

 

I am not sure of any Doctor's in Chicago who use the NeoGraft to perform High Quality FUE Hair Transplants, but I am sure it will not be long until a well respected "Board Certified" physician steps to the plate and gets one.

 

I am not sure if I would classify the NeoGraft as a Tool. At close to $90,000, it is a highly repeatable Hair Transplant transplant system which is FDA Approved and manufactured in an ISO 9001 facility.

 

Non of the other "tools" are FDA approved and I doubt that they have gone through ISO approval process (but I could be wrong).

 

Personally if I was going to have something surgical done to me, I would want it done with an FDA Approved piece of medical equipment.

 

My image is from Grafts which were harvested from a Nurse who never worked on a hair transplant in her life. As you can see they are quite nice. She harvested about 250 grafts in two hours while she was training. Not bad for a first time. All High Quality grafts.

 

I have seen long term ISHRS FUE Doctors who had troubles harvesting FUE Grafts by hand - and I would put this first time user Nurse using the NeoGraft up against their harvesting skills any day of the week. And I am sure the Doctors would agree.

 

I also would say that it is a combination of the Physican, Hair Techs and Graft conditions which makes a great Hair Transplant. I am sure there are some physicans out there who perform 100% of the procedure. But the vast majority do not and in fact it is the Hair Techs which are most involved with the outcome of your procedure.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Doug,

 

Whether you call the NeoGraft a tool or a machine, it's simply a piece of equipment that aids a physician in performing FUE. The NeoGraft has been highly overhyped on this forum, mostly by you and and other NeoGraft employees. However, no evidence has been supplied by any of you that proves your machine is more accurate and effective than other FUE tools.

 

Also, I think it's interesting that NeoGraft has claimed that it's supposed to cut costs for the patient when this piece of equipment is $90,000 and the only physician I know who promotes it charges $20 per graft using it.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Doug Monty]

Future_HT_Doc,

 

I think FlashCab is looking to have FUE performed. Do any of the docs you recommended actually perform FUE? And if they do how often do they perform the procedure - what are their results like.

 

As you know from working with Dr. Feller, FUE is not easy which is why so few doctors actually offer the procedure; unless you have great skills honed over time or have the best equipment FUE is a tough procedure to do.

[Blake Bloxham]

Doug Monty,

 

Let me first clarify by explaining that I'm a forum co-moderator and editorial assistant for the Hair Transplant Network. I have never personally worked with any hair restoration physicians (such as Dr. Feller), nor am I involved with any hair transplant clinics. As far as your first question though, many of the doctors on this site (the one's I wholeheartedly recommend every day) perform world-class follicular unit extraction, and various examples can be reviewed in the Results Posted by Leading Hair Restoration Clinics section of the forums, and through information posted on physician recommendation profiles (patient weblogs, websites, etc).

 

As you can tell, their results are state-of-the-art, and come from years of dedication, expertise, education, and practice. As you said, follicular unit extraction is an extremely delicate art, and placing this task in the hands of an untrained practitioner, in my opinion, is not advantageous to patients. Frankly, there are various risks and precise idiosyncrasies associated with hair transplant surgery in general. I simply do not see a reason to remove a trained hair restoration physician from this delicate equation, especially when (to my knowledge) there is no proof that this method is superior, patient wellbeing is at stake, and it's no more cost effective to those seeking a life-changing operation.

[Doug Monty]

Well that in no way anwsered my question.

 

Flashcab is looking for an FUE procedure in Chicago and if you look up the web sites of the doctors you suggested, they either say they do not offer FUE or they are vague about it.

 

If there are no Doctor's in the entire state of Illinois which the Hair Transplant Network would recomend for an FUE procedure, then FlashCab needs to know this. What he does not need is the ole' bait and switch....which we have all been through from Doctor's who say the do FUE and then try to talk them into a small strip procedure.

 

I am not sure that I ever classified FUE as a "Delicate Art", I would say its difficult to perform with out extensive practice or a truly "State of the Art" medical device.

[Danielkiwi]

Doug monty

 

Your point might be right but why dont you try and reinforce these points by showing some before/after pictures...a lot of us would be interested in a good FUE procedure but this forum rightly lets the pictures do the talking. without pictures, i am afraid that your statements dont have much conviction

[Bill - Seemiller]

Doug,

 

For the record, there are many good reasons why a physician (after seeing and consulting with a prospective patient) would ask them to consider a strip procedure. Like many leading hair restoration physicians, I reject the notion that FUE is for everyone and it takes an in person consultation to determine whether or not someone is a candidate for FUE.

 

Your company has advocated that the benefit of the NeoGraft is that virtually anyone can use it, even inexperienced physicians. However, I say that the skill and experience of a physician in using ANY machine or tool is paramount. A tool/machine can never adjust or make the necessary decisions in the event that issues should arise. Only an experienced surgeon can.

 

As for surgeons recommended by this community that are experienced and realistic with FUE, while they may not be in IL, there are several to consider. Several of these include Dr. Feller, Dr. Shapiro, Dr. Feriduni, and Dr. Devroye. All 4 surgeons have shown examples of their FUE work on this forum and have presented compelling and realistic information and results.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Doug Monty]

Hi Bill,

I was not trying to be difficult, I was just pointing out the fact that the Poster wanted to have an FUE procedure done to make some more volume in the front. He was still in recovery from his strip procedure. And he was being directed to go to doctors who will not meet his needs - this is not in the best interests of the patient. And this was ripe for the bait and switch potential which I have been subjected to in the past.

Not 100% sure how soon after a strip procedure that it's safe to get another strip procedure. But this person wanted FUE and FUE Only - probably to have all his hair come in together. Which in this case FUE is the ideal procedure for this patient.

I am a hair loss sufferer myself and am in need of a hair transplant. However just like a large portion of the population - there is no way in hell, I would ever let a doctor carve a piece of my scalp out and then hand it over to a bunch of people to cut up and then place back in my head. No matter how undetectable the scar is going to be, its just not going to happen, I would rather let nature take its course. So just because the "best" doctors in the world says its the "best" procedure, its not the best procedure for me...and after all it's "ME" that counts and has the final say so on the matter.

Just like every other Doctor who has a "tool" they say it's easy for Doctor's to use and learn. Some Medical Devices are just more user friendly and repeatable. And if you can make the medical device so effective you are able to take the word or phrase "Art" or "Art Form" away from the procedure. You have a superior Medical Device. Doctors who say that FUE is an "Art form" are referring to the Harvesting of the Grafts. When I think of the word “Art” I don’t think of Highly Repeatable medical precision and science. Doctors can say that they have “artistic” techniques to enhance beauty. But I do not want a doctor to use the word “Art” in any way around the harvesting of the grafts. This tells me that his technique is not repeatable. And if they are doing 1,500 grafts is graft 1 going to be the same quality as graft 1000 after fatigue sets in - if the process is an "Art Form"?

150 Years ago if you wanted a picture you had to paint one, 50 years ago if you wanted to make a Disney movie you needed 100's of illustrators. Today because of superior devices and improvements in technology “anyone” can take 100's of High Quality pictures in minutes and I can make a cartoon movie; render, edit, lay down a sound track and publish and get millions of views just sitting in my kitchen.

Not really sure what issues can arise with an FUE hair Transplant its one of the most basic of all cosmetic procedures. When you break it down an FUE procedure is pretty straight forward. Your harvesting hairs from a donor site using a very small punch, inspecting them for quality and then implanting them. The donor site then heals naturally.

An FUE procedure is so basic I will bet you that most doctors have their Hair Techs harvest most of the grafts.

So there are only "two" doctors in the entire country who you would recomend for an FUE procedure? What is this saying about the industry? Not really ideal for someone who wants 500 grafts to fill in the front hair line and has to travel 100's of miles to get it done.

[Blake Bloxham]

Doug,

 

First and foremost, I want to make it very clear that I am not going to let this thread degrade to an inappropriate argument and cause it's closure. It's not useful for anyone (including the reputation of the company you represent). Second, as Bill said, follicular unit extraction may have not been ideal for Flashcab's case, and I was not advocating a second strip procedure. I was advocating that Flashcab meet with an expert, recommended hair restoration expert and discuss the situation. If this doesn't answer your question about follicular unit extraction at the Chicagoland area, I apologize. I'm truly not trying to avoid your question because I personally do not feel this network has anything to dismiss.

 

Third, regarding your "art" comments - I highly recommend you discuss this suggestion with almost any physician in any field. Medicine is half science and half art. There is a reason it's called "practicing" medicine, and I'm afraid I'm simply not convinced that it's "better" to remove a highly-trained surgeon and replace them with an inexperienced practitioner operating a new medical device.

 

Fourth, I highly, highly disagree that follicular unit extraction is a simple cosmetic procedure, nor do I agree with your classification of it as a simple process of moving hair from the front to the back. Who performs the consultation? Who designs the hairline? Who administers the anesthetic? Who makes the recipient slits? Who determines if the grafts need to be trimmed before implantation? Who makes certain grafts aren't being removed from outside the universal safe-zone? I simply do not feel like this is advantageous to patients, and I don't think the protocols of a world-class hair transplant procedure should be dismissed in light of the NeoGraft machine.

 

Fifth, again, I'm not trying to avoid your questions, but I must agree that the continual dismissal of current follicular unit extraction techniques, the artistry of surgeons, and questioning of various practices without any real evidence from the NeoGraft machine is getting a bit tiresome. If you really feel like follicular unit extraction is a simple procedure that can be replaced by a machine operated by an untrained practitioner, can you please provide some examples to back your claim? These forums encourages doctors, satisfied patients, unsatisfied patients (etc) to be open and transparent, and I don't think it's unreasonable for you to do the same. Especially because, in my opinion, you are making some pretty bold claims.

[TC17]

As someone who has made his views on FUE quite clear in other posts, I find myself agreeing with Doug Monty on one point. If the patient wants FUE, the patient should get FUE, and he should be recommended to doctors that are capable of performing such a surgery.

 

However, I have to say that much of what you say is ridiculous. Just because technology allows me to take great photographs does not make me a decent photographer. Just because I can cook does not mean I'm a great chef. Just because I can create a film on my computer does not mean I should win an Oscar.

 

 

Even if NeoGraft was so user friendly that a lay person could perform hair transplantation, it doesn't mean that he should. The artistry needed to construct a natural hairline requires a certain level of skill, training, and innate artistry. There are doctors recommended on this site who construct hairlines that I personally don't care for. In my opinion, they will never be on the same level as some of the others no matter how great their equipment is.

 

I would LOVE for NeoGraft to bring down the costs of FUE. I would LOVE for NeoGraft to make FUE so easy that any doctor can perform it. But absent evidence, I'm going to be skeptical. Why don't you show us some results of grafts extracted using the NeoGraft? Why don't you post video of it working as well? And like Bill said, if NeoGraft makes it so much easier, why is Dr. Bauman charging such exorbitant prices for FUE?

[ukbloke]

Pardon my ignorance, but is this neagraft method being discussed the same as something called choi, which I have seen discussed somewhere on the net?

[Sparky]

Another Neograft thread with no pictures to show the amazing results that it produces. Why no pictures? because it doesnt produce amazing results, and costs 3 times as much as fue, which has been proven to produce amazing results.

 

The Neograft machine is an "Edsel"

[Doug Monty]

I am not really sure anyone is arguing, just open discussion and give and take of view points.

If we all had the same views then these boards would not be as popular as they are.

I think you need to go back and actually see what, if any of the exact claims I have made, instead of interpreting my comments.

TC - to expand on my technology point. "You" could still take a picture which landed on the cover of Time Life. The picture you take today, is still better than the best photographers could take 100 years ago.

But if you were to take an average professional photographer and then put in his hands far superior equipment; it could then make that average photographer great. Just like if you were a new photographer just learning, if you put great equipment in their hands the learning curve to greatness is shortened.

Hair Line Design and harvesting grafts really have nothing to do with each other. Once high quality grafts are harvested or sliced they are ready for implantation.

The "Art" which FUE Doctors talk about and refer to is the harvesting aspect. It is this Harvesting Art which prevents doctors from performing this surgery - it takes a long time for true "Art" to develop but technology is fast and easy. Every doctor talks about their "Artistry" of hair line design and as well they should.

Doctors are responsible for Hair Line Design and Closing the donor site. The Hair Techs mostly do the rest of the work.

 

Look at WWI Figher Pilots, don't you think they are a little jealous of the kids who fly Unmanned Air Craft today - using a joystick from 1,000 miles away. There was an Art to flying and not getting shot down back then. Versus a kid texting and flying a plane at the same time.

 

Again if you look at what my claims are, that I have seen a person who never harvested hair in her life knock out 250 High Quality Grafts in no time and compared this to a well respected doctor who is an FUE expert not able to effectively harvest grafts with a manual tool. My point being advancements in technology trump the old way of doings things almost every time.

I guess we can agree to disagree on how simple an FUE procedure is. Personally I have seen plenty and it’s pretty simple and doctors who I have talked to have agreed.

 

In order of difficultly which one of these steps is really that complicated that a trained physician could not master?

 

Who performs the consultation?

Who designs the hairline?

Who administers the anesthetic?

Who makes the recipient slits?

Who determines if the grafts need to be trimmed before implantation?

Who makes certain grafts aren't being removed from outside the universal safe-zone?

 

The doctor could do everything pefect and if the hair tech was mishandling the grafts they could damage every single one and result in poor hair growth.

Thankfully we live in a free market system so doctors can charge what ever the market will dictate.

Compare this to some strip surgery doctors charging $1 to $2 per graft. Personally I would want to pay more than $2 per graft for a procedure - just like I don't want to eat a $1 dollar porterhouse steak at a restaurant.

At least give me the perception of quality.

[Sparky]

bla bla bla bla, pictures!

[Blake Bloxham]

Doug,

 

Frankly, I'm beginning to see some significant contradictions and irrelevant comparisons within your replies. Personally, I think your arguments would be much clearer and more easily stated if you would simply show us photographic evidence of what the NeoGraft machine can do. This community is built around transparency and refined results, and I'm sure if you chose to present NeoGraft results somewhere on this site, they will be evaluated with regard to these characteristics. However, until then, I'm afraid that these discussions are comprised of pure conjecture, which seem to be going nowhere.

[shajahan]

Hi Sparky

 

I see Dr. Feriduni, and Dr. Devroye mentioned. Are these both from belgium like Bisanga? Bisanga is not listen on here so does that make him any less skillful like the other 2. Thanks mate

[Sparky]

Bit off topic, but no, hes no less skillful, probably better to start a new thread for a totally different topic.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Sparky

[Doug Monty]

Not only does the below video link show the entire procedure from start to finish it also includes some before and after photos.

 

http://app.talkfusion.com/fusion2/view.asp?NTcyNDU1_2421254

 

Future_HT_Doc, Actually I thought my points where pretty good, especially on how easy the FUE procedure is, the importance of technology and constant need for continuous improvement.

 

But most importantly the importance which the Hair Tech plays in the procedure which is often times over looked.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Future_HT_Doc, Actually I thought my points where pretty good, especially on how easy the FUE procedure is, the importance of technology and constant need for continuous improvement.

 

Doug,

 

If the FUE procedure was so easy, then not only every hair restoration physician would be performing it with consistent excellent results, but a $90,000 machine wouldn't be needed to perform it.

 

The problems I have with the NeoGraft machine isn't whether or not it's effective, it's your marketing strategies.

 

1) It's being promoted and overhyped as a superior machine over other FUE tools (which by one of your very employee's admission on another discussion topic is unproven)

 

2) You're attempting to market the NeoGraft as a distinct type of procedure which you believe requires it's own name giving NeoGraft the credit. I've already seen a couple posters ask about the "NeoGraft Hair Transplant" as if it was something distinct from FUE. For all I know, this is just one of your employees attempting to covertly sneak the term "NeoGraft" into the term "hair transplant".

 

3) You're placing much more importance on the machine than the physician who uses it which I believe is a huge mistake and disservice to prospective hair transplant patients considering FUE.

 

4) You reject what the leading hair restoration physicians say regarding patient candidacy and mislead prospective patients into believing that FUE is the only viable option worth considering.

 

5) You're using anti-strip scare tactics to sell your tool to patients (which is quite interesting in itself considering it's the physicians who are your real market)

 

The bottom line is, NeoGraft is just a machine to aid an FUE procedure and as long as there's proof, it deserves some, but no more recognition than any other tool designed to accomplish this purpose.

 

I also think it's funny that your company feels the need to attempt to sell the concept of NeoGraft to prospective patients as it's the physicians who ultimately have to "buy in".

 

Are you hoping that if you can convince the patient community that NeoGraft is superior that they'll put physicians under pressure to spend the $90,000 on a NeoGraft machine?

 

One major doctor who uses and whose been outspoken about NeoGraft charges $20 per graft. I don't see the patient community trying to convince physicians to charge more for surgery, especially when there's no real proof that NeoGraft is any better than other much less expensive FUE tools.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill