I'm Confused

[fit2btide]

I have a question. I've been reading this forum for about 4 months now. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but after seeing all the photos and posts on this website, why would anyone have hair transplant surgery with any one other than Hasson&Wong. The other doctors on this site don't even compare from what I can see. I live in New York and I'd like to have a hair transplant, but from what I see and read on the site leads me to believe that it would be a mistake to go anywhere else but to Hasson&Wong.

Am I missing something? I called several Coalition doctors, but most told me that they do not do dense packing. I asked if they did lateral slits most said sometimes and I asked about mega sessions and most said they don't do them. I also asked one coalition member what ultra refined results were and he told me that it was a marketing term. So I'm confused?

 

Thanks you.

[John_in_NC]

H & W appear to be great but they are not alone.

[NervousNelly]

I guess your post confuses me as well.

 

If you did indeed call different coalition physicians and those are the responses that you got it is kind of alarming. Several of the criteria that you mentioned are what they are supposed to be doing as a condition of keeping their membership??? I would private message Pat and give him details of your conversations.

 

There are ofcourse certain physicians that tend to be more conservative and opt for smaller sessions and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with that sometimes. That topic can get sometimes heated though because the multiple surgeries is more expensive and taxing for the patient.

 

Hasson and Wong are great surgeons. I am going to have a consult with them in March/April. I think though that there are other great surgeons that are equally skilled but get less "talk time" on this network because some of the regulars on this site went to HW. Take a look at some of the other docs on the Hair Transplant Network website. There are some other great docs like Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Feller, or Dr. Rahal. Go to Dr. Rahal's website and check out some of his work. There is a lesser known individual that provides some world class results. I would bet that his results are on par to HW but there is little mention of him.

 

It is important that you set up a few consults and go with someone that you are comfortable with.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hello fit2btide,

 

I can truly appreciate your alias, because at one point or another, we were all there and fit to be tide in our situation, feeling out of control with our hairloss. The nice thing is, if we are a good candiate, HTs can truly give us some control back over our hairloss situation.

 

Regarding your post...I won't dispute that Hasson and Wong are top notch...heck, I chose Dr. Hasson myself because I agree with you...his work seemed to impress me personally more than any other HT doctor. That's why I chose him for my final surgery along with other variables (see my detailed account at my links below if you'd like). However, I would argue that there are several other talented physicians where you'd also be in great hands. Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to discourage you from going to Hasson and Wong, like I said, I went to them myself because in my eyes, I viewed them as one of the best of the best. BUT, I just want to try to set the record straight so you understand.

 

Not all doctors do what's referred to as lateral slits. That is a technique pioneered by Hasson and Wong (I believe this to be true), and there are other excellent physicians like Dr. Feller that use this technique. Unfortunately, I can't speak for which other doctors use which technique, however, there are other techniques out there which other doctors believe to be superior just as other physicians believe lateral slit technique are superior. Dr. Ron and Paul Shapiro for example, as far as I understand, do not use this technique, but still produce superb results. BUT, you should chose a doctor that you are most impressed with...and if Hasson and Wong impress you the most...then you should consult with them. You will be in great hands.

 

Regarding dense packing...your post seems surprising on that. Maybe I'm confused too...maybe the coalition doctors who you spoke with said they wouldn't recommend dense packing on you rather than not doing dense packing at all? All the coalition doctors (when appropriate) should be doing dense packing, though admittedly, there are individual cases where dense packing is not appropriate, and maybe you are one of those cases? Anyway...we'd like to hear more detail on this for clarification. I hope this helps.

 

Bill

[vinto]

It seems that H&W has a very good track record. If you read my previous posts, you'd know that I've been running around like headless chickens to 4 doctors already plus 1 dermatologist. The doctors of interest are Dr. Straub, Dr. Elliot, Dr. DeYarman, and Dr. Straub.

 

I'm booking a flight out to Vancouver next Friday to see Dr. Wong and Joe to see what they can do for me.

 

Pray for me.

[fit2btide]

Thanks everyone.

I went to Dr. Feller about 4 years ago. I had just heard about Propecia and he told me that the pill was dangerous and that he would not prescribe it to his patients. He also told me that I was an ideal candidate for a hair transplant and Propecia would be a waist of my time anyway.

 

I took his advice and didn't get on Propecia for over two years after I met with him. I lost like 30% more hair in that time so I decided to try the drug. I haven't gotten worse since being on it, so if I would have taken it when I met with him chances are I would not be here looking to have a hair transplant today. I think he just wanted to do a transplant on me.

Just my opinion.

 

Vinto, I looked up the doctors that you visited on this site and all I see is complaints. That's what I'm talking about. Why would anyone consider going anywhere else but to Hasson&Wong? And after reading all of the bad stuff about the so called good doctors, I'm a little scared about even considering them. I just want some help and I don't want to make a bad choice like some of you have.

 

Thanks

[the B spot]

Ok, first off---- this thread needs a touch of reality, and I mean like right now.

 

Making the statement "Why would anyone ever go anywhere but to H&W" or "Everyone here has all of these complaints" shows a complete lack of understanding or REAL research.

 

I fully agree that H&W are among the BEST HT surgeons in the world (Thats why they are in the Coalition). However, just because the market is flooded with before and afters, does not mean that they are the only clinic producing outstanding results.

 

In addition, their method is exactly that, THEIR method. Other Docs achieve the same results using other slitting methods/session sizes.

 

Now, I would like a list of who you have called/spoken with and their response to your questions. Either post it here or if you want PM it to me. I would like to call these clinics myself as well and see if we are talking about a miscommunication, misunderstanding etc....

If a clinic is misrepresenting their capabilities than we need to know that as well.

 

I would certainly recommend you go to H&W. Regardless of how you are arriving at your choice, any sufferer who chooses a great HT Doc, is a feather in our cap, to be sure.

 

I look forward to your list and congrats on your choice.

Thanks

J

[fit2btide]

Is it common to bully people on this website? I contacted every single doctor in the Coalition. There is no need to provide a list. Just contact them yourself and ask the same questions. Also ask if they know what ultra refined results are. I don't think most of them do. One told me it was a marketing term. Another told me that it was just an "expression" used on this website. These are not my words.

 

I came here to get help not to be bullied. Do you have a financial interest in this business? I'm just telling you guys about my experience.

 

Thanks

[NervousNelly]

I don't think that you are being bullied at all. If you look at the responses you'll see that most of the posters are genuinely trying to do their best to help you. Maybe B Spots response was a little rough but he just had a recent HT and is still probably hopped up on codeine.

 

Some of us are a little concerned that you have gotten some of those responses from Coalition offices and would like to look into the situation. Was it the doctor themselves that you spoke with or the office help?

 

Obviously you have been doing some research yourself and from the sounds of things you have made up your mind that HW are the best. That is where you should probably go and I'm sure you'll be quite content. Good luck.

[kamin]

Originally posted by fit2btide:

..I've been reading this forum for about 4 months now...but from what I see and read on the site leads me to believe that it would be a mistake to go anywhere else but to Hasson&Wong...

 

 

I've been on this site for over a year and have no clue as to why you believe this. I've seen practically nothing but good things being said about other Coalition doctors like Feller, Shapiro, etc.

 

However, if this is the way you feel then you should go with what makes you feel comfortable.

 

No bullying intended.

[studentjay]

fit2btide

 

I would not rely on any constructive replies from a number of members of this forum, they seem more adept in insulting newer members that do not reflect their personal feelings. I, like you, have found very few highly qualified doctors here, in my case I believe HW, as you do, may be one of a handful that are worth considering. Do not allow your self to be pushed around by anyone. I for one will not.

[kamin]

No one is pushing anyone around or insulting anyone. fit2btide stated in his original quote "Correct me if I'm wrong...". No one has come out and said that he is wrong. He has his own opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone is just trying to figure out why he feels this way and throwing ideas and information out there.

[iwanthair]

Oh please!

Tell me it is not H&W Advertising.

[Tom R.]

fit2btide,

 

If you spend a little more time researching what you truly seek from this site, you will find it. I'm not going to try to convince you to do anything about your hair loss situation. You must decide that all by yourself. But the longer you remain on this site and research what you seek, you will find that it's one of the best resources available.

 

I fully understand how difficult the decision to go ahead with a hair transplant can be. As a matter of fact, I can't believe that any one of us who have had the experience would have gone into it without thinking about the outcome. However, all of us are different and sometimes we have to learn from out mistakes. And if you read posts here and elsewhere, you'll find horror stories as well as stories of success. That being said, I applaud you for being so concerned about such a potentially life altering decision...and a HT could alter your life in either direction. The good thing is that you are on track to making the best and most well informed decision by consulting members of this forum. Just don't stop here. Many posters will recommend you visit the clinics you are considering and make time to meet with patients if possible. There is nothing better than actually seeing a doctors results in person.

 

I have had HT's with the Shapiro Medical Group in Oct 0f '02 and most recently Oct of '06. Would I tell you to go to Shapiro in Minneapolis? Absolutely not! The choice is yours. Shapiro was MY choice but I thank Publisher Pat for providing a place where hair loss suffers can share experiences together and assist others through this condition.

 

I don't know where you live but I'd be willing to meet with you as would most other posters in an effort to give you what it seems you need most. An opportunity to see for yourself and compare the results of several doctors. If posters on this site were to give you that opportunity, would that allow you to accept some of the things we have to say? Please keep an open mind. Posters such as Bill, the B Spot and NN are here to help. In some cases, they've been here for years in an effort to share their experiences, both positive and negative, in a concerted effort to provide potential HT candidates such as yourself with everything they have to offer.

 

Don't let terminology or phone calls deter you from an opportunity to make a significant change in your life either. All the resources you need are right here to get you started. Keep asking questions and researching your concerns. When you're done do it again. And when you finish that last time, do it again once more for good measure. Good luck with your decision no matter where it may lead.

[irish homer]

i have read over the replys again and again and cannot see how you feel that you are being bullied, you looked for information and advice and you got it, if its not the advice you wanted to hear then ignore it at your peril,

NN

i think that B-spots advice was excellent and was in no way rough he even offered to accept PMs, can't offer more then that.

I think to accuse any of the poster here of bullying is insulting to the members who posted and to the forum in general.

IH

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hello everyone,

 

May I suggest that everyone take a deep breath and start fresh with this thread?

 

I don't believe ANYONE here...and I mean ANYONE means any harm...and that ranges from the old members (like me) to the new ones asking questions. Let's not attack each other but help each other....hey, we are all in the same boat sharing a similar problem right?

 

Attacking anyone for any reason gets people nowhere. The one reason I love this particular forum is because these kinds of things have been few and far between. You want to see a war? Go check out some of the other forums and read some of the threads. Here, I believe most of the time people do well to facilitate a learning environment for old and new members alike.

 

Now for some individual messages:

 

B Spot,

 

May I also suggest you relax just a little . I know you pretty well now and KNOW that you are a huge asset to this forum and always intend to help people. You are a fountain of knowledge and have no agenda here but to help others. But honestly, reading your post, I can see how a newbie might be offended. Though I know you don't intend to attack, I could see how it might be taken that way from someone who doesn't know you. Your words are accurate...but your approach a little "brisk".

 

studentjay,

 

You've made some generalizations and I'm not sure why you feel "a number of members on this forum" are not to be relied upon. If you feel let down, I apologize. I'm not personally sure why and would like to talk to you more about why you feel that way. If you would prefer to PM (private message) me, I'd love to talk to you about it. I want to assure you that the members of this forum are not compensated in any way to share their opinions and expertise. It IS a rule on the forum that if anyone does receive some sort of financial compensation that it is listed in their signature. If you read mine, you'll see that I receive nothing but the pleasant company of my comrades and knowing that I've helped others. My best advice to you is to not make over generalizations because even the people you do feel have been helpful, may get offended by your generalizations.

 

fit2btide,

 

I'm sorry you feel bullied. I've known BSpot for awhile now and I know that was not his intent. I can understand, however, why you feel that post was a little harsh (as I addressed B Spot above). I think people here (including myself) are just a little concerned by one of your statements about the coalition doctors not doing dense packing or megasessions. Try to understand that these are 2 of the coalition membership criteria. If coalition doctors are NOT doing these things, it should be brought to someone's attention (Pat the Publisher really) so that coalition membership for that particular membership can be re-determined. Who knows? Maybe you are right and a few doctors have strayed. Perhaps there was miscommunication as to the doctor's answers to your questions. More information would be helpful.

 

Everyone else (including myself),

 

Let's not add fuel to the fire. If we can get this thread back on track and peacefully help one another, great. If we can't, perhaps we should close the thread.

 

Sorry if I made any of you want to throw stones at me now...but I'm here to try to help others and make peace where peace is needed.

 

Bill

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Fit2btide, Studenjay,

 

This forum is wide open to all who have a sincere interest in learning and sharing. However, I think your comments are reckless and ill informed.

 

Fit2btide, you began by writing in your first post that you contacted several Coalition physicians. Then three days later you write that you have "contacted every single doctor in the Coalition". I believe that if you really knew the work of all the Coalition physicians you would not be reporting that they told you they didn't do mega sessions or dense packing. Having visited most of their clinics and learned about their surgical techniques and results over the years, I know that this is simply not true.

 

Studenjay, your allegation that the regulars on this forum are bullying is as absurd as the allegation that Coalition members don't do mega sessions or dense packing. Since when did Dr. Feller, Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Cooley, Dr. Epstein, Dr. True, Dr. Alexander . . . etc etc stop doing mega sessions and dense packing? H & W do outstanding hair transplantation but they are not alone.

 

In my opinion, the regulars on this forum are the most polite, genuine and generous posters on any hair loss forum. As for the Coalition and its members anyone who's spent any real time on this forum would know how off base your comments are. I won't dignify your false accusations with any more response.

 

If you come to this forum to insult its members, spread misinformation and create disruption and division then leave now. We are busy on this forum helping people with genuine concerns.

 

 

Pat

 

 

P.S. Fit2btide, If as you claim you've been on this forum for four months then you don't seem too interested in helping people with useful advice given your posting history. Having hosted this forum for over five years I've learned how easy it is for detractors to sign up and start making reckless and ill founded accusations that serve their agenda. I also know that if left unchecked such posters, like weeds that are not removed, can choke and kill the garden.

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

One BIG reason for not choosing H & W is the shaving of your head. They require you to do so and I cannot due to my professional obligations. Guys , come on , there are plenty of other fine doctors and I think it is a bit of a reach to say they are the only ( or best) dense packing doctor. They do great work though I agree totally

[Bill - Seemiller]

Mrjb,

 

I would actually argue against you on one point and that's the first one you made. I would actually say one reason to choose them is because they require shaving the recipient area. I know that sounds ridiculous, but Dr. Hasson's post (posted by Pat) made strong arguments about why shaving of the recipient area is actually superior. You can read the original post here. Additionally, if you compare my surgeries immediately post op, you can see that though I had the greatest number of grafts with Dr. Hasson, it was also the cleanest looking of the bunch. Could that be partially due to shaving the area? I can't say for sure...but I would guess that incisions are easier to make when other recipient hair is not in the way, so I would venture a guess to say yes.

 

Now of course...NONE of this is to dispute other excellent physicians that don't shave the recipient area. I'm in total agreement with you that there are other excellent physicians out there, Hasson and Wong among many others are the best of the best.

 

Pat,

 

Thanks for your intervention. I would like to see both of the new members (Fit2btide and studentjay) stick around and work out their differences with members of this forum. But I agree...if either are just looking to stir up trouble, their attendance here is not desired.

 

Bill

[fit2btide]

Thank you all for replying. This is really a tough crowd.

Fist off I do not work for Hasson&Wong so saying that is ridiculous.

Pat I apologize if you believe that I'm being reckless and ill-informed, but isn't this a place to ask questions and voice opinions? It's obvious that I'm still learning, that is why I am here.

 

What kind of agenda can I have? I don't understand what you mean. My only agenda is to attempt to solve my hair loss problem and live a happy life. I think that's why every one is here.

 

Pat you own this site correct? Why would you attack new members of your websites? I'm sure if I go to a doctor from you're site you receive some kind of compensation don't you?

 

Here is the list of Coalition members who seemed kind of out of touch when it came to the so called criteria. The rest seemed to do the surgery as describes but none really did mega sessions except Hasson&Wong.

 

Leonard E. Aronovitz, D.O

Robert M. Bernstein, M.D., F.A.A.D

Jerry E. Cooley, MD

Jeffrey Epstein MD, FACS

Edmond I. Griffin, MD

Robert Haber, M.D.

Sharon Keene, MD

Bobby L. Limmer, MD

William R. Rassman, MD.

William Reed, M.

Paul T. Rose, M.D.

 

Some general comments from them:

Like to do smaller sessions not to compromise blood supply.

Do lateral slits when appropriate.

The verdict on dense packing is not out, some doctors and websites say this for marketing purposes.

Hasson&wong split follicles or something like that

One said they can do a large amount of grafts in a two day session.

Don't believe the hype on these websites. Most sessions are less than 2000 grafts.

One said that these type of websites are good marketing for some doctors, not talking about himself.

 

These are not my words. These are the words of the doctors.

 

So now what, am I going to be attacked for doing good research and asking smart questions? Am I a weed for expressing myself and sharing this knowledge? I will say this, at least these doctors were honest and did not give me false hope. They wanted me to be realistic and told me what they can do for me and I appreciate this, but if you read this website everyone is under the impression that if a doctor belongs to this website that he meets this specific criteria and the doctors themselves are saying differently.

 

Thank you

[nobuzz4me]

Fit2,

 

We are here to help you and it sounds as if you have done some research. It gets confusing because with all the variables in producing a good result, opinions will vary. The important thing is to be patient and go about it in great detail.

 

Let me say, IMO, if any doctor takes a shot at another doctor I would disqualify them. (Unless its Bosley or MHR) Also, IMO, Hassong and Wong are on the short list of best in the world. However, even they I would venture to say, are not 100% in agreement with each others techniques (for example: I have heard one uses sutures Wong and the other uses staples for closure. Either one works fine but you can see how a doctor may have a preference). Point is that the coalition docs are not trained in a cookie cutter approach yet are successful in there own right. They may all have different methods to deliver consistently great results. Each Doctor in the coalition is a proven surgeon and each will have different opinions.

 

 

Remember who is paying the bill, you are. Therfore, it is up to you to decide what you like done and then ask the Doc is that feasible. It is a team effort with the patient input extremely important to the design and outcome. No way, no matter how good Doctor X may be, would I turn my head over and trust him to know what I want. Be proactive with the doctors and arm yourself with knowledge. Most of us here have been thru the HT process a time or two (three in my case), so we can help provide some experience.

 

 

No one here is looking to bully anyone, the veterans of this forum will be wary of a newcomer who in a first few posts attacks or overly praises certain doctors. There are shills out there and we are just not interested in promotion here, just helping perspective patients understand what they are getting into so they do not make a lifelong mistake.

 

 

By the way, I have not used any of the coalition doctors, my last HT was with a network recommended surgeon though. Had I been on the site longer, I may have gone with one but who knows.

 

I participate on this forum because it is the best and the knowledge here is genuine and from the heart.

 

Good luck with your search,

[NervousNelly]

This has quickly turned into a rather debatable thread.

 

Michaellovesnyc,

I just wanted to make one statement regarding the doctors that have hired the "salespeople". None of us really like it but lets face it, what they do is a business. It is a competitive business and the doctors themselves don't have time necessarily to address that side of things. Moreover, the "salesperson" may be helpfull in addressing many of your questions because they have more time. What becomes unethical, unprofessional, tacky, etc. is when they become pushy or give unrealistic expectations or misinformation for the benefit of "the sale."

 

 

Fit2betide,

 

No worries. We all respect your opinions but just wish you stated somethings a little more diplomatically. What you state should be concerning for you and I understand. This whole process is challenging and stressful and confusing as titled on this thread.

 

I'll let you and Pat work things out together.

[Bill - Seemiller]

fit2btide,

 

Just a few comments:

 

1. I don't believe you work for Hasson & Wong...I don't think anybody does

 

2. This is a place to ask questions. Ask away. What are your questions?

 

3. I don't believe it is fair for you to provide a list of doctors and then list some general comments from "them". Which doctors said which things? What were the exact questions you asked each doctor? Unless you can provide an interview sheet of the questions asked and answer for each doctor, these statements can easily be taken out of contexts. BUT, since you mentioned them, allow me to address some variables to prove why each answer MIGHT be appropriate depending on what question you asked and/or how you asked it:

 

a. like to do smaller sessions not to compromise blood supply

 

Preferring smaller sessions doesn't mean they won't do larger sessions. Every doctor has a preference. Many of the doctors you mentioned above, I've seen do larger sessions. Do a search on this forum on many of the doctors and you'll see patient results

 

b. Do lateral slits when appropriate

 

Nothing wrong with this statement either. I believe each patient needs to be treated individually. The "lateral slit technique" is only one of the effective techniques used in hair transplanations. There are many arguments for and against it's superiority. The bottom line for me? The proof is in the pudding. Again, I've been very impressed with the work of many of the doctors above as I've witnessed numerous patients before/during/after photos.

 

c. verdict on dense packing is not out...some doctors and websites say this for marketing purposes

 

What are you using to assess the accuracy of this statement? Can you prove this? It's a pretty bold claim and sounds very opinionated rather than factual. If you can provide a way to prove this and explain your measurement tool to extract such data and it sounds credible, we'll take this as fact...otherwise, how can we take your word for it when many of us (including me) have seen these doctors actually dense pack?

 

d. Hasson and Wong split follicles (or something like that)

 

Again, on what grounds to you stand to prove this? I admit there have been some debate on whether or not they sub divide FUs, but there seems to be no indiciation that they do this. Hasson and Wong claim not to do it, and when Pat was looking into it, he admitted that the length and width of the donor strip, given the density seemed to reveal actual FUs taken, not sub FUs.

 

e. One said they can do a large amount of grafts in a two day session.

 

What's wrong with this statement? Nothing that I see. What exactly is a "large amount"? Nothing in this statement negates that this doctor can't do a megassion in a single session. Perhaps, he was just giving you alternatives? Perhaps his definition of "large" is 10000 grafts. We don't know, because we don't have the data of the interview.

 

f. Don't believe the hype on these websites. Most sessions are less than 2000 grafts?

 

I've addressed this one above. How are you assessing this? Many if not all of these doctors perform surgeries of greater than 2000 grafts in any given day (I've seen patients post real results of such cases).

 

g. ONe said that these type of websites are good marketing for some doctors, not talking about himself

 

This may be true...it would depend on how active a doctor is on the forum, or how active his patients are in posting their results. Pat personally encourages these coalition doctors to be a more regular part of this forum. Of course it's good advertising for the doctors if patients post their results and they come out nicely. It's sort of a side note benefit for the doctors (one reason admittedly that the become a member of the coalition...nothing wrong with it IMO).

 

Fit2btide,

 

Nobody questions smart research. But try to understand you are posting your interpretation of what doctors have said (chances are it's not word for word) based on your questions for your case. Some doctors are admittedly more conservative than others and would prefer to do multiple sessions. That doesn't make it wrong nor does it nullify them as an excellent surgeon. But when appropriate, all of them have the ability to dense pack and do megasessions.

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Nervous,

 

I agree with your assessment of the benefit verses the problems that can arise from having a sales person. Perhaps the word "consultant" is a better one since "sales" just sounds pushy. Nice explanation!

 

Bill

[fit2btide]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate your words.

 

I don't want to get a particular doctor in trouble. This is not my intent. Besides, who prepares a transcript of their phone conversations that they have with hair transplant doctors? Or maybe I should, it can be called the hair transplant files

 

I also spoke with several doctors listed on this website as recommended but not members of the Coalition.

Here is a list:

Alfonso Barrera, MD, FACS

Dr. Mark Baxa

Michael Beehner, M.D

Dr. Ivan Cohen

Dr. Blaine Lehr

Dr. William Parsley

 

I asked them what the difference between their transplant and the Coalition member's transplants were. It was hard for me to understand the distinction since they all did the same size cases on average as the Coalition doctors. Some used lateral slits when appropriate just like the Coalition doctors and all claim to dense pack unlike some of the Coalition doctors. What they did say was the following.

 

Three of the above listed doctors said that they were once Coalition doctors but since it cost much more to advertise as a Coalition doctor they decided to just be listed on the website. One told me that there was no difference so that is why he went with the "lower tier" of advertising. His words.

 

Dr. Barrera just said "too much money". He was kind of hard to talk to.

 

I asked them if they new what ultra refined results were. Two chuckled and said that this must be a new term and that people in this business make up all kind of names for the same thing.

 

Two said it was a name that Pat the website owner uses to market doctors.

 

Dr. Barrera, couldn't seem to understand what I was asking and just said he never heard of it.

 

 

Why don't you people just call yourselves and ask the same questions. I'm sure you will get the same answers. All of the doctors were very courteous and really seemed to care.

 

Thank you.